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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Will this change life as we know it ? [future predictions]


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/362564/4

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conic - Posted - 04/01/2020:  10:00:28


This country has gone crazy, My local hospital has had an alleged 40 deaths but a friend was there for an unrelated reason and said the cafe was packed with diners including medical staff, he got into the lift for to second floor and 4 contract workers piled in on the first floor.
Police with drones chasing after people in the fine English countryside then you can go to London and the underground trains are ram packed because the very intelligent Mayor decided to reduce services to save a few quid.
Now we have bonnie price charlie was tested positive then is swanning off around the country spreading what he has not got in the first place, including a few hundred staff in his little house and now all of a sudden he is fully fighting fit after 7 days.
Im not denying there is a problem but most of what we are told by the media and people on here repeating any old rubbish without hard facts

doryman - Posted - 04/01/2020:  10:01:52


Please do not feed the troll.

jan dupree - Posted - 04/01/2020:  10:18:04


quote:

Originally posted by prooftheory

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by prooftheory

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by OldNavyGuy

quote:









Out of curiosity, what would such a number be?






The Flu infects 25-30 million a year with about 30,000-35,000 deaths of people with pre-existing medical conditions. The current corona virus. which is evidently the Flu on steroids if you listen to the Government, would need fatality numbers over a million per month to warrant the current lockdown of the entire Nation. Number of cases are meaningless. There have been 250,000  people who have contracted the virus, and recovered, in 2 or 3 days, and others who never knew they had it, other than just not feeling good that day. It's ridiculous.






This didn't answer the question.  How many people would have to die from COVID-19 who would otherwise be alive, for you to agree that social distancing policies are worthwhile?  The answer should be a number.






So far 45,000 people have died Worldwide, the Population of the World is 9 billion. Sit back and think about that. You are in a panic over 45,000 people most of whom probably would have died from the pre-existing condition they had anyway. It would have to be at least 100 million people Worldwide before i would even bat an eye. 

conic - Posted - 04/01/2020:  10:20:48


quote:

Originally posted by m06

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by DC5

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

Nobody wears masks during Flu season, and 20,000 plus people a year die of the Flu. The numbers from the coronavirus are just not there to warrant the mass hysteria perpetrated by the media, at the direction of people who stand to make billions off the scare. Namely the Drug and Vaccine Industry.






I've never seen makeshift hospitals built during a flu season.  I've never seen doctors and nurses cry during a flu outbreak.  When was the last time you saw navy ship hospitals being used in a civilian port to take on the overload?  You are right, that the number of dead (so far) is a fraction of what die annually from the flu, but the rapid rate of sickness, and the numbers requiring hospitalization is much, much higher than for the flu.  Also, when you recover from the flu, you recover with very little, if any, lasting issues.  With this virus you have permanent lung tissue damage, and may permanently lose the ability to smell and taste.  The number sick is doubling every 3 days.  I don't know at what point you thing people should be concerned, but talk to the governors of New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Washington, Louisiana, and California. Talk to people in Italy, Spain, France, Iran and Germany. 






The accuracy of those Government numbers and information is questionable. Just like everything the Government does.






On what basis do you draw your ‘conclusion’?



...of course my question can only be rhetorical. Why? Because you have no factual basis. You are simply spouting your own opinion and inventing ‘facts’ accordingly. As others have politely explained to you, anyone is entitled to whatever cock n’ bull they want to believe. But they are not entitled to invent facts. That ruse fools no-one.



Meanwhile the governments you decry are making strenuous efforts on all our behalf to direct resources and manpower into providing additional emergency care. Here in the UK two 4,000 bed Nightingale hospitals were built from scratch in 14 days.



In a crisis there are people who volunteer, roll up their sleeves and selflessly get things done for the common good and then there are people like you who are too enamoured of their baseless ‘theories’ to acknowledge the difficult reality happening right around them.



 






Oh you must think that governments  care about you, hahaha , they are trying to save their own skins , great effort with the Nightingale hospitals though but they should have already been built instead of wasting money on non essentials



P.S please dont quote the bbc as evidence

prooftheory - Posted - 04/01/2020:  10:31:16


Not willing to stay home to save the lives of 99 million people.   That isn't autism.  That is psychopathy.


Edited by - prooftheory on 04/01/2020 10:32:02

jan dupree - Posted - 04/01/2020:  10:35:56


quote:

Originally posted by m06

Jan, are you on the autism spectrum?



Direct, but polite and genuine question.



It would explain the inability to empathise apparent in your last post. And may temper the disbelief and consequently the responses of some of us.






Just to put things in perspective. Joe Diffie died a couple days ago with the virus in his system, John Prine is on life support, also with the virus in his system. Have you seen a recent photo of them. Diffie died of a heart attack, and Prine has had one foot in the grave ever since he almost died of cancer about 7 years ago. These are the kind of cases that are being reported as coronavirus deaths. And we are supposed to be in a panic over that.  


Edited by - jan dupree on 04/01/2020 10:36:42

prooftheory - Posted - 04/01/2020:  10:40:15


quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by m06

Jan, are you on the autism spectrum?



Direct, but polite and genuine question.



It would explain the inability to empathise apparent in your last post. And may temper the disbelief and consequently the responses of some of us.






Just to put things in perspective. Joe Diffie died a couple days ago with the virus in his system, John Prine is on life support, also with the virus in his system. Have you seen a recent photo of them. Diffie died of a heart attack, and Prine has had one foot in the grave ever since he almost died of cancer about 7 years ago. These are the kind of cases that are being reported as coronavirus deaths. And we are supposed to be in a panic over that.  






Joe Diffie died of a heart attack because he couldn't breath because he had COVID-19.   It isn't like the heart attack was somehow incidental.  

DC5 - Posted - 04/01/2020:  10:44:07


quote:

Originally posted by m06

Jan, are you on the autism spectrum?



Direct, but polite and genuine question.



It would explain the inability to empathise apparent in your last post. And may temper the disbelief and consequently the responses of some of us.






So would sociopathic tendencies.

DC5 - Posted - 04/01/2020:  10:45:28


OK Mods, time to lock this one for political reasons.

DC5 - Posted - 04/01/2020:  10:50:26


quote:

Originally posted by doryman

Please do not feed the troll.






Yup, going to make myself a nice cup of tea instead.  Done with this thread. As Mark Twain said 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'  Also  "When you argue with a fool, he's doing the same thing". (not sure on source for this quote.)

prooftheory - Posted - 04/01/2020:  10:52:25


quote:

Originally posted by m06

Jan, are you on the autism spectrum?



Direct, but polite and genuine question.



It would explain the inability to empathise apparent in your last post. And may temper the disbelief and consequently the responses of some of us.






Mike, I'm pretty offended by this question and I think it is a dangerous and frankly prejudiced way of thinking about autism.  Autism is not an inability to empathise and it certainly isn't a lack of moral judgment. 

conic - Posted - 04/01/2020:  10:55:00


quote:

Originally posted by DC5

quote:

Originally posted by m06

Jan, are you on the autism spectrum?



Direct, but polite and genuine question.



It would explain the inability to empathise apparent in your last post. And may temper the disbelief and consequently the responses of some of us.






So would sociopathic tendencies.






haha what a pair of snowflakes unable to debate like an adult so resort to personal insults like a tagteam of schoolboy bullies

Owen - Posted - 04/01/2020:  11:04:25


I suppose this might be more appropriate in the "Improvements and Suggestions" forum, but when I see half a dozen "vertical lines" in an exchange [over along the left margin] I kinda lose interest.  Would it be worthwhile to see if Eric can/would reprogram things so that on the third one the posts would go into the big black hole?    devil   crying


Edited by - Owen on 04/01/2020 11:06:08

conic - Posted - 04/01/2020:  11:06:29


great idea Owen, lets start with yours

Owen - Posted - 04/01/2020:  11:08:41


... no, no, conic....there's no "three vertical lines" on my post.  wink

OldBlindGuy - Posted - 04/01/2020:  11:14:50


quote:

Originally posted by DC5

As Mark Twain said 'Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.'  Also  "When you argue with a fool, he's doing the same thing". (not sure on source for this quote.)





It's been said many times, many ways.  The earliest I could find...



"Do not answer a fool according to his folly, Lest you also be like him."



--Proverbs 26:4 (NKJV)



 

Texasbanjo - Posted - 04/01/2020:  11:16:50


Okay, gentlemen, can we act like adults instead of juveniles? Enough of this nonsense. If you don't have anything nice to say to each other, then just please keep quiet or are you trying to get this thread locked? You're very close.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 04/01/2020:  12:19:44


The original question was “Will this change life as we know it?” Unequivocally yes. Read this scary article from The Washington Post:

 



washingtonpost.com/world/the_a...tory.html

jan dupree - Posted - 04/01/2020:  12:29:09


quote:

Originally posted by prooftheory

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by m06

Jan, are you on the autism spectrum?



Direct, but polite and genuine question.



It would explain the inability to empathise apparent in your last post. And may temper the disbelief and consequently the responses of some of us.






Just to put things in perspective. Joe Diffie died a couple days ago with the virus in his system, John Prine is on life support, also with the virus in his system. Have you seen a recent photo of them. Diffie died of a heart attack, and Prine has had one foot in the grave ever since he almost died of cancer about 7 years ago. These are the kind of cases that are being reported as coronavirus deaths. And we are supposed to be in a panic over that.  






Joe Diffie died of a heart attack because he couldn't breath because he had COVID-19.   It isn't like the heart attack was somehow incidental.  






Healthy people are not dying of this virus, or even contracting it with severe symptoms. If you are worried about contracting the virus and dying from it, then quarantine yourself, or take other precautions. Let everybody else go about their business.

prooftheory - Posted - 04/01/2020:  12:31:10


... or you could care about whether other people are dying and not just yourself.


Edited by - prooftheory on 04/01/2020 12:32:21

paco0909 - Posted - 04/01/2020:  12:36:10


Plenty of middle age patients are dying, not just those with underlying conditions. Most people seem to have mild symptoms but not all. Everyone should quarantine because you could be responsible for other people’s death, which in effect makes you a murderer. Go indoors and play your banjo.

jan dupree - Posted - 04/01/2020:  12:49:51


quote:

Originally posted by prooftheory

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by prooftheory

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by OldNavyGuy

quote:









Out of curiosity, what would such a number be?






The Flu infects 25-30 million a year with about 30,000-35,000 deaths of people with pre-existing medical conditions. The current corona virus. which is evidently the Flu on steroids if you listen to the Government, would need fatality numbers over a million per month to warrant the current lockdown of the entire Nation. Number of cases are meaningless. There have been 250,000  people who have contracted the virus, and recovered, in 2 or 3 days, and others who never knew they had it, other than just not feeling good that day. It's ridiculous.






This didn't answer the question.  How many people would have to die from COVID-19 who would otherwise be alive, for you to agree that social distancing policies are worthwhile?  The answer should be a number.






10,000,000


Edited by - jan dupree on 04/01/2020 12:50:34

jan dupree - Posted - 04/01/2020:  12:54:13


quote:

Originally posted by paco0909

Plenty of middle age patients are dying, not just those with underlying conditions. Most people seem to have mild symptoms but not all. Everyone should quarantine because you could be responsible for other people’s death, which in effect makes you a murderer. Go indoors and play your banjo.






But how is it any different from the Flu, or for that matter SARS and Mers, and Ebola which kill hundreds of thousands Worldwide every year.

paco0909 - Posted - 04/01/2020:  13:10:01


Quality not quantity. Each of us can assist in preventing the illness around our own place. Save those lives. That is the whole point.

Chris Meakin - Posted - 04/01/2020:  13:13:51


quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by paco0909

Plenty of middle age patients are dying, not just those with underlying conditions. Most people seem to have mild symptoms but not all. Everyone should quarantine because you could be responsible for other people’s death, which in effect makes you a murderer. Go indoors and play your banjo.






But how is it any different from the Flu, or for that matter SARS and Mers, and Ebola which kill hundreds of thousands Worldwide every year.






The experts estimate COVID-19 mortality rates are 10X that of seasonal 'flu. I've never read of SARS, MERS or Ebola cases happening in Australia, COVID-19 on the other hand...



The pic is of global daily confirmed cases; an undeniable upward trajectory. A large proportion of the last half a dozen bars are in the US.



How COVID-19 compares to flu:



health.com/condition/cold-flu-...very-year



abc.net.au/news/health/2020-03.../12073696



Perhaps you should take a trip to New York city for first hand evidence? The stories coming out from there are horrific.



 


Edited by - Chris Meakin on 04/01/2020 13:14:57


Tobus - Posted - 04/01/2020:  13:20:27


quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by paco0909

Plenty of middle age patients are dying, not just those with underlying conditions. Most people seem to have mild symptoms but not all. Everyone should quarantine because you could be responsible for other people’s death, which in effect makes you a murderer. Go indoors and play your banjo.






But how is it any different from the Flu, or for that matter SARS and Mers, and Ebola which kill hundreds of thousands Worldwide every year.






I know you're impervious to facts, but read this article.  The mortality rate for ages 0-49 is about 5 to 10 times deadlier than the flu.  And for the elderly, it's about 12-1/2 times deadlier.  On top of that, this coronavirus is anywhere from 10 to 1000 times more transmissible. 



So, it spreads much more readily than the flu and it kills much more handily than the flu.  If you can't figure out why this is different, you are just being intellectually dishonest.



Your threshold of 10 million dead would happen within a month if the world weren't taking the precautions we currently are.  For reasons that should be obvious to anyone with sense, it's better to avoid those deaths than to wait until they happen and then react.




Edited by - Tobus on 04/01/2020 13:21:51

conic - Posted - 04/01/2020:  13:37:54


quote:

Originally posted by Tobus

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by paco0909

Plenty of middle age patients are dying, not just those with underlying conditions. Most people seem to have mild symptoms but not all. Everyone should quarantine because you could be responsible for other people’s death, which in effect makes you a murderer. Go indoors and play your banjo.






But how is it any different from the Flu, or for that matter SARS and Mers, and Ebola which kill hundreds of thousands Worldwide every year.






I know you're impervious to facts, but read this article.  The mortality rate for ages 0-49 is about 5 to 10 times deadlier than the flu.  And for the elderly, it's about 12-1/2 times deadlier.  On top of that, this coronavirus is anywhere from 10 to 1000 times more transmissible. 



So, it spreads much more readily than the flu and it kills much more handily than the flu.  If you can't figure out why this is different, you are just being intellectually dishonest.



Your threshold of 10 million dead would happen within a month if the world weren't taking the precautions we currently are.  For reasons that should be obvious to anyone with sense, it's better to avoid those deaths than to wait until they happen and then react.








your own CDC.gov, "Each year, at least 1.7 million adults in America develop sepsis. Nearly 270,000 Americans die as a result of sepsis"



Do I believe this "fact" or yahoo you linked  where on the same page bill gates states shutdown everywhere for at least 10 weeks, thats ok if you got a full fridge somewhere to swing a cat



 

Tobus - Posted - 04/01/2020:  13:48:46


quote:

Originally posted by conic

 



your own CDC.gov, "Each year, at least 1.7 million adults in America develop sepsis. Nearly 270,000 Americans die as a result of sepsis"



Do I believe this "fact" or yahoo you linked  where on the same page bill gates states shutdown everywhere for at least 10 weeks, thats ok if you got a full fridge somewhere to swing a cat



 






So, in other words, you can't argue with the facts and would rather deflect?  OK, I get it.



Dude, sepsis is an infection that results from many things, for many reasons.  And it's not contagious.  What is your point, other than deflection?

Cornflake - Posted - 04/01/2020:  14:01:48


What frightens me about this virus, beside the mortality factor, is that it can do irreparable damage to the lungs and other organs of many of its survivors.

Owen - Posted - 04/01/2020:  14:14:44


quote:

Originally posted by Bill Rogers

The original question was “Will this change life as we know it?” Unequivocally yes. Read this scary article from The Washington Post:

 



washingtonpost.com/world/the_a...tory.html






Thanks for the link, Bill.  I think it's a good reminder for some of us [including me] even in "normal" times.

jan dupree - Posted - 04/01/2020:  16:19:57


quote:

Originally posted by Tobus

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by paco0909

Plenty of middle age patients are dying, not just those with underlying conditions. Most people seem to have mild symptoms but not all. Everyone should quarantine because you could be responsible for other people’s death, which in effect makes you a murderer. Go indoors and play your banjo.






But how is it any different from the Flu, or for that matter SARS and Mers, and Ebola which kill hundreds of thousands Worldwide every year.






I know you're impervious to facts, but read this article.  The mortality rate for ages 0-49 is about 5 to 10 times deadlier than the flu.  And for the elderly, it's about 12-1/2 times deadlier.  On top of that, this coronavirus is anywhere from 10 to 1000 times more transmissible. 



So, it spreads much more readily than the flu and it kills much more handily than the flu.  If you can't figure out why this is different, you are just being intellectually dishonest.



Your threshold of 10 million dead would happen within a month if the world weren't taking the precautions we currently are.  For reasons that should be obvious to anyone with sense, it's better to avoid those deaths than to wait until they happen and then react.








Those statistics are not verified. There has not been enough fatalities, for a long enough duration, with all the variables considered, to say that is a scientific study. The common Flu has been studied for years. Even if it were true, it does not justify the current hysteria. All it means is, if you are over 65, just take precautions. A Worldwide lockdown, called for by a Government that constantly lies, is not justified.

paco0909 - Posted - 04/01/2020:  17:04:50


Fortunately it doesn’t matter what you think. Your very own Governor has seen the light and you are on lockdown. Play your banjo!

paco0909 - Posted - 04/01/2020:  17:51:45


Conic: sepsis has nothing to do with flu or covid or swinging cats. Your stats are correct but sepsis is a dangerous infection that science is still figuring out how to fight. So your point is not on target and Bill Gates knows more about this subject that you. Go play your banjo!

AndrewD - Posted - 04/02/2020:  01:19:30


Mike is absolutely right. The two trolls (one I'm sorry to say a compatriot of mine. But as he doesn't think London is in the UK I'm not too worried).
Leaving aside the as yet unknown financial consequences one set of things that will change are those existing trends that will be accelerated by our current enforced behaviour:
I've worked from home for years. Except when visiting customers who still insist on my physical presence I can do my job perfectly well over the internet. I'm lucky to have worked for a few companies who realise that not having to pay for prime office space, and not having restrict staff selection by geography makes a lot of sense. Classic case was a job I had a few years ago. Conversation with potential new boss "I can't interview you next week as I'm in London". Me: "But I live in London". Him: "Oh I thought you were in San Francisco". I got the job anyway as part of a team who lived in London, Chicago, Boston and Geneva. More employers will realise that this attitude saves them money, allows them to be more selective and gets more work done. More employees will not have to commute, with the savings in time that comes with this.
The second is the acceleration of the way that we no longer go to shops. The shops come to us. I'm already probably ahead of the curve here as I already get most of my groceries delivered and haven't been in a clothes shop for years. But a lot of the people who have converted to online shopping recentky because they have had to will realise that it's preferrable and will stay with it when the ships re-open. The collapse of town centre shopping areas will be quicker and irreversible. Most retail workers will be in warehouses or behind steering wheels rather than counters or checkouts. Those people who have to be in the physical presence of their clients or colleagues will commute on quieter roads and trains (which will reduce pollution). City centre office occupation and rents will collapse. Many of the now redundant office blocks can be converted into housing.

I don't see either of these changes (or rather rapid acceleration in existing trends ) as a bad thing. What do you think ?

AndrewD - Posted - 04/02/2020:  03:38:34


quote:

Originally posted by m06

.....



My only query is if jobs move out of tight city centre districts where is the impetus for people to live in the new city centre housing? Doesn’t the economic justification for cities itself start to dismantle?






I know this may sound strange to you Mike. But some of us actually like living in cities. More than 2 weeks in the countryside without sight of a red double decker bus makes me itchy. Cities aren't just work. They are leisure, culture, history... all in one place.



And the impetus will be cost and availability. A flat in an ex-bank tower block at an affordable rent is much better than the alternatives for many people. We're already seeing this trend in London where city centre space that would have been offices a few years ago is being used for housing - Even some former office blocks being converted to flats. But so far mostly unaffordable housing for most people.

DC5 - Posted - 04/02/2020:  05:20:26


AndrewD , I agree with most of your assessments, but they are limited to those who live in urban areas. Many of us in rural areas cannot get groceries delivered, and some of us in the most rural areas cannot even get reliable internet or cell service. Remote working only works for a certain level of highly educated knowledge workers. Construction people cannot work remotely. Most low paid workers cannot work remotely. I've said it earlier, but it bears repeating - we cannot view the world through the eyes of affluence.

RE: Trolls, Let them post what they want, free speech, but there is absolutely no need to respond, no matter how ridiculous a point they try to make. In fact, there is no need to read what they write. Best to do what I'm now doing and completely skip over their posts. Deniers are dangerous, but if ignored, they will go away.

DC5 - Posted - 04/02/2020:  05:45:10


quote:

Originally posted by m06

quote:

Originally posted by DC5

AndrewD , I agree with most of your assessments, but they are limited to those who live in urban areas. Many of us in rural areas cannot get groceries delivered, and some of us in the most rural areas cannot even get reliable internet or cell service. Remote working only works for a certain level of highly educated knowledge workers. Construction people cannot work remotely. Most low paid workers cannot work remotely. I've said it earlier, but it bears repeating - we cannot view the world through the eyes of affluence.



RE: Trolls, Let them post what they want, free speech, but there is absolutely no need to respond, no matter how ridiculous a point they try to make. In fact, there is no need to read what they write. Best to do what I'm now doing and completely skip over their posts. Deniers are dangerous, but if ignored, they will go away.






Agreed to look at anything through a single filter is not going to give a balanced picture. And sure, there are jobs where the nature of the task makes remote working impossible. My reading is that the point Andrew makes is that the range of jobs where employees will work from home will widen significantly. I reckon on that extending pattern stepping up after this pandemic too.



It's not just 'highly educated knowledge workers' who fall into that bracket. There are still many white collar (currently) office jobs that could be networked from home. And we shouldn't forget that if office space is reduced, so are the number of jobs for those who currently service those spaces. Unfortunately those people do not have the option of simply switching their role to work from home.






True.  Two other unintended consequences of working from home.  It will be easier for those who work from home to work two jobs during the same time period.  Also, since governments work very slowly, it will lead to more "independent contractors" and fewer employees.  Uber, Lyft and many other companies are taking advantage of many employment "loopholes" and bending other laws to hire people.  When we no longer have to go into the office, we might become independent contractors.  I'm not saying this is good or bad, but it is paradigm shifting. 

Tobus - Posted - 04/02/2020:  06:15:48


quote:

Originally posted by AndrewD



The second is the acceleration of the way that we no longer go to shops. The shops come to us. I'm already probably ahead of the curve here as I already get most of my groceries delivered and haven't been in a clothes shop for years. But a lot of the people who have converted to online shopping recentky because they have had to will realise that it's preferrable and will stay with it when the ships re-open. The collapse of town centre shopping areas will be quicker and irreversible. Most retail workers will be in warehouses or behind steering wheels rather than counters or checkouts. Those people who have to be in the physical presence of their clients or colleagues will commute on quieter roads and trains (which will reduce pollution). City centre office occupation and rents will collapse. Many of the now redundant office blocks can be converted into housing.



I don't see either of these changes (or rather rapid acceleration in existing trends ) as a bad thing. What do you think ?






I think you're right on this point.  The trend has already been for people to work more remotely, and not need to live/work in a downtown area.  So people are spreading out to "near" the cities but not necessarily inside them.  Our infrastructure has expanded to meet this demand.  But this pandemic will hasten that trend because a lot of people will suddenly become very wary of living in a tightly-packed metro area where they literally can't move without rubbing elbows with the unwashed masses.  This will change the way a lot of people live and shop.



On the shopping end, I do see delivery services picking up more steam.  Especially since we're on the cusp of seeing deliveries by drones becoming a normal thing.  Once that technology starts to be used, deliveries will be a lot quicker with less crowding on surface roads.  I think this will have a big effect on where people choose to live and work.

BanjoLink - Posted - 04/02/2020:  08:02:38


I'm seeing the opposite in my hometown, where the inner city has become quite vibrant in the past twenty years ...... after being dead the previous twenty. Both office space, retail, and housing has boomed. I care nothing about being in the city, but there are a lot of people who do. Although there are many, obviously, that like to order items on-line, there are still many that like to see items in person before buying.

I agree with Mike, that we all tend to look through a single filter, our single lens, and think that most people see things the way we do and do not get a balanced picture. People are social animals, and I think for many, going into an office and interacting with fellow workers is much preferable to working at home alone. I know I have driven six hours (each way) for a one hour meeting because a face to face meeting is just different than a conference call ...... although I would have much preferred a call.

I agree things will change some and slowly, but in general, it will be back to business as usual.

steve davis - Posted - 04/02/2020:  09:04:51


The virus doesn't care if you get it or not,Jan.

Do us all a favor and don't carry the virus around and give it a place to land.

Boredom doesn't last last forever,but death does.

You don't have any real facts about it until everyone is tested.

An infant died today from it.


Edited by - steve davis on 04/02/2020 09:06:02

jan dupree - Posted - 04/02/2020:  09:33:50


quote:

Originally posted by conic

quote:

Originally posted by Tobus

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by paco0909

Plenty of middle age patients are dying, not just those with underlying conditions. Most people seem to have mild symptoms but not all. Everyone should quarantine because you could be responsible for other people’s death, which in effect makes you a murderer. Go indoors and play your banjo.






But how is it any different from the Flu, or for that matter SARS and Mers, and Ebola which kill hundreds of thousands Worldwide every year.






I know you're impervious to facts, but read this article.  The mortality rate for ages 0-49 is about 5 to 10 times deadlier than the flu.  And for the elderly, it's about 12-1/2 times deadlier.  On top of that, this coronavirus is anywhere from 10 to 1000 times more transmissible. 



So, it spreads much more readily than the flu and it kills much more handily than the flu.  If you can't figure out why this is different, you are just being intellectually dishonest.



Your threshold of 10 million dead would happen within a month if the world weren't taking the precautions we currently are.  For reasons that should be obvious to anyone with sense, it's better to avoid those deaths than to wait until they happen and then react.








your own CDC.gov, "Each year, at least 1.7 million adults in America develop sepsis. Nearly 270,000 Americans die as a result of sepsis"



Do I believe this "fact" or yahoo you linked  where on the same page bill gates states shutdown everywhere for at least 10 weeks, thats ok if you got a full fridge somewhere to swing a cat



 






Bill Gates is Mr. Vaccine himself, he wants to inject vaccines into the entire World. I would'nt believe anything Gates says.

jan dupree - Posted - 04/02/2020:  09:44:01


quote:

Originally posted by steve davis

The virus doesn't care if you get it or not,Jan.

Do us all a favor and don't carry the virus around and give it a place to land.

Boredom doesn't last last forever,but death does.

You don't have any real facts about it until everyone is tested.

An infant died today from it.






So you are just believing everything the Government tells you. The same Government that allows everything to be saturated with Roundup, allows Flouride to be dumped into the water supply, allows cancer causing chemicals in our food supply, and allows Aluminum and Barium to be rained down on us constantly. All of which causes cancer in 1 out of 3 Americans, deaths you see before your very eyes. And you want to believe these people. Soon as they get their Ducks in a Row after their restructuring of their World Economy, and get their "Vacccine" mixed up with what they want in it, they will call off the "Pandemic".

jan dupree - Posted - 04/02/2020:  09:48:18


quote:

Originally posted by m06

quote:

Originally posted by BanjoLink

I'm seeing the opposite in my hometown, where the inner city has become quite vibrant in the past twenty years ...... after being dead the previous twenty. Both office space, retail, and housing has boomed. I care nothing about being in the city, but there are a lot of people who do. Although there are many, obviously, that like to order items on-line, there are still many that like to see items in person before buying.



I agree with Mike, that we all tend to look through a single filter, our single lens, and think that most people see things the way we do and do not get a balanced picture. People are social animals, and I think for many, going into an office and interacting with fellow workers is much preferable to working at home alone. I know I have driven six hours (each way) for a one hour meeting because a face to face meeting is just different than a conference call ...... although I would have much preferred a call.



I agree things will change some and slowly, but in general, it will be back to business as usual.






I'm quite happy to admit that I'm old school in the sense that I much prefer dealing with and being around real people. Automation in most all contexts drives me nuts.



But what shapes workplaces are economic criteria. Employers in general have shown that they have no second thought about homogenising and depersonalising workplaces (I worked in one such until last May and experienced that process first-hand) and very visible beyond that - automation of roles where they can. I see no likelihood that my or anyone else's 'preference' is going to change that.



Rather than be inflexible and negative I try to see the huge new opportunities for more independent social interaction and choices if more of us aren't tied to a fixed and unchanging daily workplace. I really like the idea of 'contracting' and even dipping in and out of salaried employment and combining that with working on my own projects from home. That way maybe offers more variety in how we view 'work'; becoming less dictated to and more self-selecting. Some might say that just describes the 'gig economy'. But to a large extent the pre-pandemic gig economy, zero hours contracts and no employee benefits suited the employer. In a situation where more and more traditionally mainstream jobs are conducted remotely the power shifts back toward the people selling their skills.



But for younger people to be able to do that requires the wider context to be more conducive e.g. housing costs



 



That's another likely area of major change. I've read some quite stark predictions about the effect on the housing market. What do folks think about that area post-Covid 19?






Corporations will be stronger that ever, and the middle class will begin shrinking.

jan dupree - Posted - 04/02/2020:  10:05:40


quote:

Originally posted by m06

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by DC5

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

Nobody wears masks during Flu season, and 20,000 plus people a year die of the Flu. The numbers from the coronavirus are just not there to warrant the mass hysteria perpetrated by the media, at the direction of people who stand to make billions off the scare. Namely the Drug and Vaccine Industry.






I've never seen makeshift hospitals built during a flu season.  I've never seen doctors and nurses cry during a flu outbreak.  When was the last time you saw navy ship hospitals being used in a civilian port to take on the overload?  You are right, that the number of dead (so far) is a fraction of what die annually from the flu, but the rapid rate of sickness, and the numbers requiring hospitalization is much, much higher than for the flu.  Also, when you recover from the flu, you recover with very little, if any, lasting issues.  With this virus you have permanent lung tissue damage, and may permanently lose the ability to smell and taste.  The number sick is doubling every 3 days.  I don't know at what point you thing people should be concerned, but talk to the governors of New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Massachusetts, Washington, Louisiana, and California. Talk to people in Italy, Spain, France, Iran and Germany. 






The accuracy of those Government numbers and information is questionable. Just like everything the Government does.






On what basis do you draw your ‘conclusion’?



...of course my question can only be rhetorical. Why? Because you have no factual basis. You are simply spouting your own opinion and inventing ‘facts’ accordingly. As others have politely explained to you, anyone is entitled to whatever cock n’ bull they want to believe. But they are not entitled to invent facts. That ruse fools no-one.



Meanwhile the governments you decry are making strenuous efforts on all our behalf to direct resources and manpower into providing additional emergency care. Here in the UK two fully-equipped 4,000 bed Nightingale hospitals were built from scratch in 14 days. Impressive.



In a crisis there are people who volunteer, roll up their sleeves and selflessly get things done for the common good and then there are people like you who are too enamoured of their baseless ‘theories’ to acknowledge the difficult reality happening right around them. And that is the singly most anti-social and counterproductive manifestation of ignorance.



 






I'd believe the UK''s Government even less than the U.S. Government.

banjo bill-e - Posted - 04/02/2020:  10:33:57


m06 asked --" I've read some quite stark predictions about the effect on the housing market. What do folks think about that area post-Covid 19?--"

Mike, that is THE question in my household right now, as we were preparing to sell one and buy another and that has obviously been put on hold indefinitely. We are, of course, hoping that the two locations in question will at least balance so that a drop in the current value will be matched by a cut in the offering prices when we buy, but at this point it's a guessing game. People will continue to buy housing, but at what price?
I do find living downtown most convenient right now, as there is a grocery at ground level of our building, a drug store across the street, and a liquor store next door! However, that also puts us in a relatively high risk cluster for C-19.
When this finally passes I will be looking for much lower population density, as I am becoming quite the misanthrope lately.

banjo bill-e - Posted - 04/02/2020:  10:36:38


^^and I'm wondering if rural retreats will become more desirable?

doryman - Posted - 04/02/2020:  10:58:01


I will be interested to see how this affects higher education. Now that many universities are moving to an online modality for spring quarter, I wonder how much of that will remain after we get a handle on this situation. No high-school senior spend his or days dreaming about spending the next four years of his or her life in their parent's basement taking online college classes, so I don't think the traditional model for a university will completely vanish. Also, there are just some things that cannot be done well online (upper division science lab and field classes specifically), but I could see a lasting transition to more of a blended online and face to face model.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 04/02/2020:  11:12:30


Just can't keep politics out of it, can you? I made my last warning yesterday but again, some think it's okay to spout off and break the rules. Topic locked.

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