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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Originally I was acquired for $73.30.


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donc - Posted - 02/23/2020:  12:51:31


My sister the family historian still has the factory invoice complete with an owner's manual. This was 8 years before any public medical system existed in Canada so my dad got billed.


Edited by - donc on 02/23/2020 12:56:43




chuckv97 - Posted - 02/23/2020:  13:04:26


A bargain basement price....

5B-Ranch - Posted - 02/23/2020:  13:43:10


You just don’t get much for your money now days.

OldNavyGuy - Posted - 02/23/2020:  14:43:48


I wonder what the final cost was for your parents for maintenance and upkeep until you moved out.

Mooooo - Posted - 02/23/2020:  14:59:59


Was there a warranty or return policy?

donc - Posted - 02/23/2020:  16:00:16


I noticed that it took close to 3 months to pay all of this bill.

Paul R - Posted - 02/23/2020:  18:21:49


quote:

Originally posted by Mooooo

Was there a warranty or return policy?






And have your warranties expired yet?

DC5 - Posted - 02/24/2020:  05:41:25


I often wonder how much medical costs would be today if there weren't insurance and government run healthcare. When I see how high my medical bills are I am grateful I have insurance, but then I wonder how high they would be if nobody had insurance. I feel that many costs are high because "somebody else is paying". I feel the same about college costs. Government loans and grants drive up the availability of money, and that drives up costs.
I also realize that if these medical costs were not covered by insurance, some of the medical miracles we have today would unlikely not exist. MRIs and CAT scans, for example. The cost to build one is very high, and probably no one would have one. But then again, once you've spent that money, you need to use the machine, so how many tests that aren't really needed are being done to keep the machine busy, and keep the money coming in to pay for it.
Most of us don't care what the costs are, as long as the insurance covers it.

Wet Spaniel - Posted - 02/24/2020:  07:21:35


quote:

Originally posted by DC5

I often wonder how much medical costs would be today if there weren't insurance and government run healthcare. When I see how high my medical bills are I am grateful I have insurance, but then I wonder how high they would be if nobody had insurance. I feel that many costs are high because "somebody else is paying". I feel the same about college costs. Government loans and grants drive up the availability of money, and that drives up costs.

I also realize that if these medical costs were not covered by insurance, some of the medical miracles we have today would unlikely not exist. MRIs and CAT scans, for example. The cost to build one is very high, and probably no one would have one. But then again, once you've spent that money, you need to use the machine, so how many tests that aren't really needed are being done to keep the machine busy, and keep the money coming in to pay for it.

Most of us don't care what the costs are, as long as the insurance covers it.






Dave,



 



one example we have noticed that has made it's way from your side of the Pond is EpiPens (the aderenaline auto injectors) for anaphylaxes.  They came from one source in the US and over a few years went up from $100 to $600.  

Trewq36 - Posted - 02/24/2020:  07:28:03


quote:

Originally posted by DC5

I often wonder how much medical costs would be today if there weren't insurance and government run healthcare. When I see how high my medical bills are I am grateful I have insurance, but then I wonder how high they would be if nobody had insurance. I feel that many costs are high because "somebody else is paying". I feel the same about college costs. Government loans and grants drive up the availability of money, and that drives up costs.

I also realize that if these medical costs were not covered by insurance, some of the medical miracles we have today would unlikely not exist. MRIs and CAT scans, for example. The cost to build one is very high, and probably no one would have one. But then again, once you've spent that money, you need to use the machine, so how many tests that aren't really needed are being done to keep the machine busy, and keep the money coming in to pay for it.

Most of us don't care what the costs are, as long as the insurance covers it.






A study at Yale found that....



Medicare for All Would Save U.S. $450 Billion, Prevent Nearly 70,000 Deaths a Year.



 

chuckv97 - Posted - 02/24/2020:  07:37:30


Proper exercise and a healthy diet would also go a long way in cutting health care costs. Trouble is we don’t have to chop wood and haul water anymore....

Owen - Posted - 02/24/2020:  08:23:34


...and reasonably healthy/intact joints would go a long way toward proper exercise.  wink

Wet Spaniel - Posted - 02/24/2020:  08:52:08


quote:

Originally posted by donc

My sister the family historian still has the factory invoice complete with an owner's manual. This was 8 years before any public medical system existed in Canada so my dad got billed.






That's a brilliant piece of family history you have there Don.  A great thing to be able to pass on too.

DC5 - Posted - 02/24/2020:  09:56:55


quote:

Originally posted by Trewq36

quote:

Originally posted by DC5

I often wonder how much medical costs would be today if there weren't insurance and government run healthcare. When I see how high my medical bills are I am grateful I have insurance, but then I wonder how high they would be if nobody had insurance. I feel that many costs are high because "somebody else is paying". I feel the same about college costs. Government loans and grants drive up the availability of money, and that drives up costs.

I also realize that if these medical costs were not covered by insurance, some of the medical miracles we have today would unlikely not exist. MRIs and CAT scans, for example. The cost to build one is very high, and probably no one would have one. But then again, once you've spent that money, you need to use the machine, so how many tests that aren't really needed are being done to keep the machine busy, and keep the money coming in to pay for it.

Most of us don't care what the costs are, as long as the insurance covers it.






A study at Yale found that....



Medicare for All Would Save U.S. $450 Billion, Prevent Nearly 70,000 Deaths a Year.



 






I don't buy it.  I'm currently on Medicare, and I have to carry supplemental insurance because Medicare doesn't cover everything.  All insurance rations health care in deciding what procedures they will and will not pay for.  There is no reason to believe that Medicare would change this, as it currently rations health care.  I am only in favor of this if it is truly FOR ALL.  That means millionaires, billionaires, and mostly ALL ELECTED AND PUBLIC EMPLOYEES are also on it.  Don't like when those who write laws exempt themselves from the laws.

latigo1 - Posted - 02/24/2020:  11:19:47


quote:

Originally posted by DC5

quote:

Originally posted by Trewq36

quote:

Originally posted by DC5

I often wonder how much medical costs would be today if there weren't insurance and government run healthcare. When I see how high my medical bills are I am grateful I have insurance, but then I wonder how high they would be if nobody had insurance. I feel that many costs are high because "somebody else is paying". I feel the same about college costs. Government loans and grants drive up the availability of money, and that drives up costs.

I also realize that if these medical costs were not covered by insurance, some of the medical miracles we have today would unlikely not exist. MRIs and CAT scans, for example. The cost to build one is very high, and probably no one would have one. But then again, once you've spent that money, you need to use the machine, so how many tests that aren't really needed are being done to keep the machine busy, and keep the money coming in to pay for it.

Most of us don't care what the costs are, as long as the insurance covers it.






A study at Yale found that....



Medicare for All Would Save U.S. $450 Billion, Prevent Nearly 70,000 Deaths a Year.



 






I don't buy it.  I'm currently on Medicare, and I have to carry supplemental insurance because Medicare doesn't cover everything.  All insurance rations health care in deciding what procedures they will and will not pay for.  There is no reason to believe that Medicare would change this, as it currently rations health care.  I am only in favor of this if it is truly FOR ALL.  That means millionaires, billionaires, and mostly ALL ELECTED AND PUBLIC EMPLOYEES are also on it.  Don't like when those who write laws exempt themselves from the laws.






I don't buy it either.  In the first place, medicare isn't free.  The premium is held out of my social security check.  My wife does not have social security, so medicare bills us for her premium.  Then, medicare does not pay anywhere near the amount of the bill.  I had a minor surgical procedure done recently.  The bill was $337.  Medicare paid 128.52.  Not even half.  That is why we have to buy a supplement, which is private insurance and pretty expensive for the best plans.  I am not sure medicare is such a great  program as the politicians claim. 

chuckv97 - Posted - 02/24/2020:  11:31:09


Other than medical checkups to renew my driver’s licence, I haven’t ever had to pay a medical bill. Yes, it comes out of our taxes, but I still think it’s better than for-profit healthcare.

donc - Posted - 02/24/2020:  12:22:16


If public health care is not available to everyone how can it legitimately be called 'public health care ' ? Contracting out the insurance to private companies is the same as contracting an Army and Navy of private mercenary fighters to defend the borders of the country. It may work but who would ever choose it ? Countries with public medical care usually provide adequate coverage. My employer also provided a supplementary optional plan to cover 80% prescriptions and 80% of dental work. As a retiree I now pay $90 a month for that coverage for the 2 of us. Anything to do with a hospital or a doctor is almost always 100%. Cosmetic surgery is usually not covered. Private insurance companies are leeches. Get rid of them !!

Paul R - Posted - 02/24/2020:  12:26:32


quote:

Originally posted by chuckv97

Other than medical checkups to renew my driver’s licence, I haven’t ever had to pay a medical bill. Yes, it comes out of our taxes, but I still think it’s better than for-profit healthcare.






it's way better. We don't have "pre-existing conditions". It's a level playing field. Your social status doesn't determine your outcome. And it's much more efficient and less costly overall. We don't pay CEOs' huge salaries. I go for my PSA test, no bill. I go for the prostate appointment at the hospital, no bill. I go to the ER, no bill. My nephew went to the States and had an emergency and got billed for $130,000 for about a day and a half. That's nuts. I won't go south of our border without getting insurance.

chuckv97 - Posted - 02/24/2020:  13:10:44


Yep, I always buy travel health insurance when I go south in the winter. My company paid most of it when I drove truck full time.

DC5 - Posted - 02/24/2020:  13:12:02


quote:

Originally posted by chuckv97

Other than medical checkups to renew my driver’s licence, I haven’t ever had to pay a medical bill. Yes, it comes out of our taxes, but I still think it’s better than for-profit healthcare.






Philosophically, I agree.  A single payer system, paid for with tax dollars, is a better, and more fair system.  But look at what country we are talking about.  Without trying to make this political, would you trust your health care to the usual gang of idiots we keep putting into office?  Not that they ever actually balance the budget, but when they claim they are trying too, it is always Medicare and SS that they first bring the axe to.  I cannot trust them with my health insurance needs.  At least with private insurance there is some competition, and I can change my insurance every year during open enrollment, so they need to work to keep me.  A government monopoly scares the crap out of me.  Look at our interstate highway system.  We have rotting bridges, and roads in disrepair all over the country.  Every 4 years I get scared to death on what we're about to face for the next 4 years.  And it doesn't matter who wins.

DC5 - Posted - 02/24/2020:  13:14:36


quote:

Originally posted by Paul R

quote:

Originally posted by chuckv97

Other than medical checkups to renew my driver’s licence, I haven’t ever had to pay a medical bill. Yes, it comes out of our taxes, but I still think it’s better than for-profit healthcare.






it's way better. We don't have "pre-existing conditions". It's a level playing field. Your social status doesn't determine your outcome. And it's much more efficient and less costly overall. We don't pay CEOs' huge salaries. I go for my PSA test, no bill. I go for the prostate appointment at the hospital, no bill. I go to the ER, no bill. My nephew went to the States and had an emergency and got billed for $130,000 for about a day and a half. That's nuts. I won't go south of our border without getting insurance.






Just out of curiosity, what did he have done in the E.R., and did he actually have to pay that bill?  Certainly if he only had a cast put on a broken leg, the bill would not be that high, but if he had to have 6 bullets removed, and an emergency liver transplant, that was a bargain. 

Owen - Posted - 02/24/2020:  13:19:34


 

Originally posted by latigo1


   I am not sure medicare is such a great  program as the politicians claim. 


I'll add my yes up to the politicians  (??) [i.e. Chuck, Don and Paul] in the last few posts.... even though I suspect we're preaching to the choir.     [And, like I said in the Abbott vs Gregory thread.... I (really) intend no disrespect.  wink  ]


Edited by - Owen on 02/24/2020 13:35:13

chuckv97 - Posted - 02/24/2020:  13:33:53


Last month I spent a night in the ER in Arizona with the kidney stone. Two prescriptions cost me $15.34 . Glad I had bought the insurance.


Edited by - chuckv97 on 02/24/2020 13:34:22

chuckv97 - Posted - 02/24/2020:  13:35:41


quote:

Originally posted by Owen

 

Originally posted by latigo1


   I am not sure medicare is such a great  program as the politicians claim. 


I'll add my yes up to the politicians  [i.e. Chuck, Don and Paul] in the last few posts.... even though I suspect we're preaching to the choir.  






Me...a politician..??  Wash your mouth out with soap, pilgrim! 

Owen - Posted - 02/24/2020:  17:09:58


Nice bit of family history Don.   



If my math is working, $75 in 1950 that doubles every decade should be about $9600 in 2020.  Would that be in in the realm of "reasonable" nowadays, for a routine (?) delivery and a couple of days (?) in hospital?    [It's a slow evening here in Russell.]

Paul R - Posted - 02/24/2020:  17:18:50


quote:

Originally posted by DC5

quote:

Originally posted by Paul R

quote:

Originally posted by chuckv97

Other than medical checkups to renew my driver’s licence, I haven’t ever had to pay a medical bill. Yes, it comes out of our taxes, but I still think it’s better than for-profit healthcare.






it's way better. We don't have "pre-existing conditions". It's a level playing field. Your social status doesn't determine your outcome. And it's much more efficient and less costly overall. We don't pay CEOs' huge salaries. I go for my PSA test, no bill. I go for the prostate appointment at the hospital, no bill. I go to the ER, no bill. My nephew went to the States and had an emergency and got billed for $130,000 for about a day and a half. That's nuts. I won't go south of our border without getting insurance.






Just out of curiosity, what did he have done in the E.R., and did he actually have to pay that bill?  Certainly if he only had a cast put on a broken leg, the bill would not be that high, but if he had to have 6 bullets removed, and an emergency liver transplant, that was a bargain. 






I'd have to ask my brother for specifics, but it seemed to be some sort of seizure - but don't quote me. He was taken to one hospital ($30 thou, may have been 40) and then sent elsewhere ($100,000). He wasn't in either that long (may have been more than a day in the second). I'm fairly certain he took out insurance. The thing is, on this side of the border, he wouldn't have a bill to pay, period.



Today I did my colon cancer test and brought the stuff (yecchh) to the lab. No fee. It's part of the province-wide screening programme. It makes sense. It's cheaper on the medical system to catch these things early.

chuckv97 - Posted - 02/24/2020:  17:59:00


Bar stool sample....?

donc - Posted - 02/24/2020:  18:39:07


quote:

Originally posted by Owen

Nice bit of family history Don.   



If my math is working, $75 in 1950 that doubles every decade should be about $9600 in 2020.  Would that be in in the realm of "reasonable" nowadays, for a routine (?) delivery and a couple of days (?) in hospital?    [It's a slow evening here in Russell.]






Not a correct formula...  try this one    in2013dollars.com/us/inflation...amount=73..   I can see where my dad paid this off in 3 months . He was a rookie life insurance salesman at the time.  $9600 would have been a lot longer than 3 months for him.  A good union job in Vancouver after the war was usually under $1 an hour. 

waystation - Posted - 02/24/2020:  18:57:32


quote:

Originally posted by Paul R

quote:

Originally posted by DC5

quote:

Originally posted by Paul R

quote:

Originally posted by chuckv97

Other than medical checkups to renew my driver’s licence, I haven’t ever had to pay a medical bill. Yes, it comes out of our taxes, but I still think it’s better than for-profit healthcare.






it's way better. We don't have "pre-existing conditions". It's a level playing field. Your social status doesn't determine your outcome. And it's much more efficient and less costly overall. We don't pay CEOs' huge salaries. I go for my PSA test, no bill. I go for the prostate appointment at the hospital, no bill. I go to the ER, no bill. My nephew went to the States and had an emergency and got billed for $130,000 for about a day and a half. That's nuts. I won't go south of our border without getting insurance.






Just out of curiosity, what did he have done in the E.R., and did he actually have to pay that bill?  Certainly if he only had a cast put on a broken leg, the bill would not be that high, but if he had to have 6 bullets removed, and an emergency liver transplant, that was a bargain. 






I'd have to ask my brother for specifics, but it seemed to be some sort of seizure - but don't quote me. He was taken to one hospital ($30 thou, may have been 40) and then sent elsewhere ($100,000). He wasn't in either that long (may have been more than a day in the second). I'm fairly certain he took out insurance. The thing is, on this side of the border, he wouldn't have a bill to pay, period.



Today I did my colon cancer test and brought the stuff (yecchh) to the lab. No fee. It's part of the province-wide screening programme. It makes sense. It's cheaper on the medical system to catch these things early.






It's cheaper on the patient to catch it early, but then no one gets to make a profit on the cost of treatment.

Owen - Posted - 02/24/2020:  19:14:24


Don, obviously I'm no banker/statistician/financier, but isn't there more to investment income than the rate of inflation?    I was just applying the "rule of 72" (?) to a "what if."

Paul R - Posted - 02/24/2020:  21:08:24


quote:

Originally posted by waystation

quote:

Originally posted by Paul R

quote:

Originally posted by DC5

quote:

Originally posted by Paul R

quote:

Originally posted by chuckv97

Other than medical checkups to renew my driver’s licence, I haven’t ever had to pay a medical bill. Yes, it comes out of our taxes, but I still think it’s better than for-profit healthcare.






it's way better. We don't have "pre-existing conditions". It's a level playing field. Your social status doesn't determine your outcome. And it's much more efficient and less costly overall. We don't pay CEOs' huge salaries. I go for my PSA test, no bill. I go for the prostate appointment at the hospital, no bill. I go to the ER, no bill. My nephew went to the States and had an emergency and got billed for $130,000 for about a day and a half. That's nuts. I won't go south of our border without getting insurance.






Just out of curiosity, what did he have done in the E.R., and did he actually have to pay that bill?  Certainly if he only had a cast put on a broken leg, the bill would not be that high, but if he had to have 6 bullets removed, and an emergency liver transplant, that was a bargain. 






I'd have to ask my brother for specifics, but it seemed to be some sort of seizure - but don't quote me. He was taken to one hospital ($30 thou, may have been 40) and then sent elsewhere ($100,000). He wasn't in either that long (may have been more than a day in the second). I'm fairly certain he took out insurance. The thing is, on this side of the border, he wouldn't have a bill to pay, period.



Today I did my colon cancer test and brought the stuff (yecchh) to the lab. No fee. It's part of the province-wide screening programme. It makes sense. It's cheaper on the medical system to catch these things early.






It's cheaper on the patient to catch it early, but then no one gets to make a profit on the cost of treatment.






It may be cheaper where you are, but the cost of treatment here isn't borne by the patient, either personally or through an insurance company. There is no profit motive here, and no denial of insurance payment for pre-existing conditions.

chuckv97 - Posted - 02/24/2020:  21:30:55


Although it’s less burden on the public health care system (and thus on the taxpayers) if less expensive treatments are done earlier rather than later.

DC5 - Posted - 02/25/2020:  05:33:00


quote:

Originally posted by chuckv97

Although it’s less burden on the public health care system (and thus on the taxpayers) if less expensive treatments are done earlier rather than later.






Which works here also.  I pay nothing out of pocket for flu or pneumonia vaccines, and my annual physical has no office co-pay either for the visit or the routine diagnostic lab tests.

DC5 - Posted - 02/25/2020:  05:44:41


quote:

Originally posted by Paul R

quote:

Originally posted by DC5

quote:

Originally posted by Paul R

quote:

Originally posted by chuckv97

Other than medical checkups to renew my driver’s licence, I haven’t ever had to pay a medical bill. Yes, it comes out of our taxes, but I still think it’s better than for-profit healthcare.






it's way better. We don't have "pre-existing conditions". It's a level playing field. Your social status doesn't determine your outcome. And it's much more efficient and less costly overall. We don't pay CEOs' huge salaries. I go for my PSA test, no bill. I go for the prostate appointment at the hospital, no bill. I go to the ER, no bill. My nephew went to the States and had an emergency and got billed for $130,000 for about a day and a half. That's nuts. I won't go south of our border without getting insurance.






Just out of curiosity, what did he have done in the E.R., and did he actually have to pay that bill?  Certainly if he only had a cast put on a broken leg, the bill would not be that high, but if he had to have 6 bullets removed, and an emergency liver transplant, that was a bargain. 






I'd have to ask my brother for specifics, but it seemed to be some sort of seizure - but don't quote me. He was taken to one hospital ($30 thou, may have been 40) and then sent elsewhere ($100,000). He wasn't in either that long (may have been more than a day in the second). I'm fairly certain he took out insurance. The thing is, on this side of the border, he wouldn't have a bill to pay, period.



Today I did my colon cancer test and brought the stuff (yecchh) to the lab. No fee. It's part of the province-wide screening programme. It makes sense. It's cheaper on the medical system to catch these things early.






So a neurogical condition.  I would guess the diagnostic tests called for either a CAT scan or MRI, possibly both - and with contrast dye.  The first hospital did not have either the equipment, or expertise, which is why he was sent to the second hospital.  This is why I ask.  This would have been a costly trip, and not a simple trip to the E.R.  He had stays in 2 hospitals and I'm sure a barrage of tests - probably more than needed.  These costs could easily come to the amount you say, but we don't get bills that large, we get statements.  The statements tell us what the bill was, but also what insurance pays.  We get something from our insurance company called an EOB, or Explanation of Benefits.  This tells us what the insurance paid, and what, if anything, we need to pay.  Often the true bill to us is minimal, if anything at all.  I've received statements showing costs in the thousands, but my cost might be as low as $20, or even nothing, depending on what was done and where. 

Paul R - Posted - 02/25/2020:  08:39:55


The true bill is your insurance costs, which include a middle man. Ours is way more cost efficient. And if you can't afford insurance ... .

Owen - Posted - 02/25/2020:  09:27:09


I realize I don't always "fit the mold," but for some inexplicable reason, and I'm speaking in general terms, IF being screwed over is part of the deal, I'd rather it be by incompetence than by design.

DC5 - Posted - 02/25/2020:  12:53:00


quote:

Originally posted by Paul R

The true bill is your insurance costs, which include a middle man. Ours is way more cost efficient. And if you can't afford insurance ... .






You still get treated.

Paul R - Posted - 02/25/2020:  13:07:10


Actually, I've heard of doctors getting bonuses for saving the insurance company money, denying treatment, misdiagnosing, stalling.

chuckv97 - Posted - 02/25/2020:  13:29:55


I’ve also known of doctors who get free samples of addictive pills to give to their patients - ‘it’s good for business’ as they say in the land of Big Pharma.


Edited by - chuckv97 on 02/25/2020 13:30:25

mander - Posted - 02/27/2020:  03:57:23


I believe I cost my parents something like $3.50 because Mom needed medication that wasn't covered.
Not sure, but I think she thinks I was worth it. It depends on the day! :-)

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