Banjo Hangout Logo
Banjo Hangout Logo

Premier Sponsors

476
Banjo Lovers Online


Discussion Forum

Want to hide these Google ads? Join the Players Union!

 All Forums
 Other Banjo-Related Topics
 Collector's Corner
 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Grandfathers banjo 1920s


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/360420

Bob Beaudoin - Posted - 01/18/2020:  05:23:18


I am hoping someone can help me out with any information on this banjo . It was my grandfathers that he received for his 15th Birthday in 1928 . I'm not sure if it was brand new at that time or 2nd hand . The only numbers or markings are on the brass ring shown in the photo . I took the head off and checked but there was no markings at all . Again any info at all would be appreciated.





 

rmcdow - Posted - 01/18/2020:  06:27:16


The patent is a Lange one, so it is likely a Rettberg & Lange banjo. Photos of the full front and side of the banjo, as well as the peghead would help.


Edited by - rmcdow on 01/18/2020 06:28:19

maneckep - Posted - 01/18/2020:  06:32:58


That sure is one pretty banjo.

RioStat - Posted - 01/18/2020:  07:28:07


banjohangout.org/classified/79355

kyleb - Posted - 01/18/2020:  08:22:07


Beautiful banjo, insane price!

beezaboy - Posted - 01/18/2020:  09:17:27


As mentioned above this banjo was made by Wm. L. Lange owner of the company and factory that made Paramount and Orpheum banjos in New York City in the 1920's. This banjo has the Lange-Tone flange and rim and was made in the 1930's. The rim and flange are completely different from the Paramount and Orpheum banjos and was introduced by Lange in the financial dark days of the 1930's. This banjo was more likely than not made for sale to a musical instrument jobber or music store as it des not have Lange's name inscribed in the peghead block. Also, Lange stamped his Lange-Tone flange banjos going to jobbers and other banjo makers with this Lange patent number. In the 1930's Lange's own proprietory Lange-Tone Flange banjos were the Lange-Craft line, the Paramount Trooper and occasionally the Paramount Style X. I've seen Lange-Tone Flange Paramount X banjos offered for about $700 but don't know what the final sales price was.

Brian Murphy - Posted - 01/18/2020:  10:41:54


Here is the patent: patentimages.storage.googleapi...50826.pdf

The Old Timer - Posted - 01/18/2020:  10:58:45


The Grover tailpiece is gold plated and engraved "DeLuxe", same as used on the Gibson Style 5. Are you sure the banjo metal is brass, and not gold plate?

rmcdow - Posted - 01/18/2020:  11:03:21


quote:

Originally posted by The Old Timer

The Grover tailpiece is gold plated and engraved "DeLuxe", same as used on the Gibson Style 5. Are you sure the banjo metal is brass, and not gold plate?






From the wear marks I see, the nickel showing through, and the lack of tarnish, I'd say all the metal is gold plated.  Could you take a photo of the inside with the resonator off, at an angle, showing the tone ring if possible?


Edited by - rmcdow on 01/18/2020 11:05:45

rmcdow - Posted - 01/18/2020:  11:41:03


Here is a tenor banjo by Lange that is top tensioned like yours, has the same hole pattern, in nickel.

banjohangout.org/classified/44546

beezaboy - Posted - 01/18/2020:  13:38:17


I was wrong. Now that I see the inside of the rim in the BHO photos the Langstile rim is a lot more robust than the usual Lange-Tone Flange and rim (attached).

I expect that the OP banjo rim will look similar to the attached Lange-Tone Flange and rim but the the rim will be a lot more hefty.

The patent stamped on the flange was not meant to describe this banjo or Lange-Tone Flange banjos. The patent was taken much earlier to describe the original Paramount flange and resonator. But I guess Lange could argue that his patent covered all banjo extended flanges and resonators.

The tubes in the rim are Lange Triple X like but the Triple X banjo rim stopped below the head and left a gap through which banjo tone was supposed to flow forth.

But as for the OP banjo Lange was definitely a guy who liked to innovate.


Edited by - beezaboy on 01/18/2020 13:41:41


southerndrifter - Posted - 01/18/2020:  17:31:50


Except for the toptension hoop, this banjo looks very much like the Epiphone Recording B that Eddie Adcock played for years with the Country Gentlemen.

dugzbawz - Posted - 01/19/2020:  02:05:02


Unfortunately nothing like the quality of an Epi B. This is a Langestyle Deluxe which was one of the cheaper banjos to come out of the Paramount factory around 1930. There is not much demand for this type of instrument and probably around $500-600 would be a good deal.
banjoworld.de/High443.htm
Best of luck, Jock

banjotrader - Posted - 01/19/2020:  13:17:04


Remember Epiphone used this patent (officially in 1929 after being sued by Lange). This could be made by anybody, simply paying a licensing fee to Lange.

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 01/19/2020:  18:41:52


quote:

Originally posted by banjotrader

Remember Epiphone used this patent (officially in 1929 after being sued by Lange). This could be made by anybody, simply paying a licensing fee to Lange.






That doesn't explain all the other Lange-like features of this banjo. It may have carried a different name, as Lange made banjos for wholesalers, but it's still a Lange made instrument.

banjotrader - Posted - 01/19/2020:  19:21:02


quote:

Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

quote:

Originally posted by banjotrader

Remember Epiphone used this patent (officially in 1929 after being sued by Lange). This could be made by anybody, simply paying a licensing fee to Lange.






That doesn't explain all the other Lange-like features of this banjo. It may have carried a different name, as Lange made banjos for wholesalers, but it's still a Lange made instrument.






Having seen a million banjos from the 1920s so many have Lange looking features and marquetry.  I dont like claiming too many things

dugzbawz - Posted - 01/19/2020:  22:28:41


How much proof do you require? If the link in my previous post is not enough try this one:-
lockyphoto.com/triplexbanjo/co...d-images/

Jock

parlour player - Posted - 01/20/2020:  01:13:22


I searched The USA Patent Office records Pat No1550826 which is stamped on the Banjo .

here is the link..

pdfpiw.uspto.gov/.piw?docid=01...N/1550826

banjotrader - Posted - 01/20/2020:  03:35:34


Problem is many banjos have these characteristics (Iucci, Epiphone inlays, Majestic marquetry, Paragon, etc) yet they also have features and parts from Ludwig/Unknown/etc. Do I think they supplied parts, yes. But I dont think Lange made all this stuff.


Edited by - banjotrader on 01/20/2020 03:37:43

Mark Ralston - Posted - 01/20/2020:  05:18:01


For what it's worth, I have an electrified Langstyle Plectrum that looks very similar, dowel is stamped "Lange Made", same marquetry as the original post banjo. 



Mine must have been played a lot because, when I got it, it had the most deeply-rutted fingerboard that I've ever seen.  Deep ruts up to the 16th fret. 



yellowstone-jewelry.com/Banjos...ctrum.htm



 





 

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 01/20/2020:  05:51:07


quote:

Originally posted by banjotrader

quote:

Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

quote:

Originally posted by banjotrader

Remember Epiphone used this patent (officially in 1929 after being sued by Lange). This could be made by anybody, simply paying a licensing fee to Lange.






That doesn't explain all the other Lange-like features of this banjo. It may have carried a different name, as Lange made banjos for wholesalers, but it's still a Lange made instrument.






Having seen a million banjos from the 1920s so many have Lange looking features and marquetry.  I dont like claiming too many things






It's pretty easy to see this is a Lange made product when comparing to images of Lange made products already posted here.

banjotrader - Posted - 01/20/2020:  05:55:45


yes, yes, I got it... I'm saying that it's not a hard and fast rule that always works. There are many questions about his involvement in other makers affairs in the 1920s. There are Epiphone with his fingerboards on them, so they are Lange made banjos too? Clifford Essex tonering, flanges all Lange-ish, made in NY too? No.

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 01/20/2020:  06:52:20


I agree that it's not a hard and fast rule, but in this case, it pretty much works. It's true that Lange-like features occur on other banjos, and some parts were likely supplied by Lange, but this one appears to be entirely made up of Lange-like parts, shapes, inlay patterns, etc.

If we could get the OP to remove the resonatotr and post a picture of the dowelstick, maybe that would help, although with that Lange-shaped peghead inlay that doesn't say "Lange," maybe the dowel went unstamped, too.

DSmoke - Posted - 01/20/2020:  10:40:31


quote:

Originally posted by G Edward Porgie



If we could get the OP to remove the resonatotr and post a picture of the dowelstick, maybe that would help, although with that Lange-shaped peghead inlay that doesn't say "Lange," maybe the dowel went unstamped, too.






I get a feeling from this banjo that there would be a Bruno sticker on the dowel stick.

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 01/20/2020:  14:14:28


quote:

Originally posted by DSmoke

quote:

Originally posted by G Edward Porgie



If we could get the OP to remove the resonatotr and post a picture of the dowelstick, maybe that would help, although with that Lange-shaped peghead inlay that doesn't say "Lange," maybe the dowel went unstamped, too.






I get a feeling from this banjo that there would be a Bruno sticker on the dowel stick.






Actually, I have thought with no Lange name, Bruno would have been a very logical distributor of this one. I'm not sure if they woul;d have added a sticker, though.

dugzbawz - Posted - 01/20/2020:  22:54:11


Another alternative is that the original engraved MOP fell out and was lost (quite common). Someone replaced the inlay but did not have the skills to engrave it. Everything else says Wm Lange so it definitely quacks!
Jock

Hangout Network Help

View All Topics  |  View Categories

0.0625