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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: The Future of The 4 String Banjo?


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/359652

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JackRyanNPU - Posted - 12/19/2019:  17:01:34


Just curious.

The 5 string world is booming with young players, the Irish world is booming with young players.

What is it of the Jazz banjo and the like?

What can we do to not be hokey/cheesy but still stay true to the roots of the instrument?

The days of vaudeville are long over, and the conventions are quickly becoming a thing of the past.

Will we see the 4 string being used in a real band setting more, will we see more use of the plectrum banjo?

Today, I see so many pop stars using 6 string guitar banjos, but why haven’t we pushed the use of the plectrum or tenor more?

What can we do to make it appeal more to the Top 40 kind of people, but not make it seem forced and ‘Oh look, a guy is playing Guns N Roses on a banjo’

The novelty status of the instrument drives me up the wall, and mostly because I love it so much.

HerbMeister - Posted - 12/19/2019:  17:13:50


I can't speak for the entire country but, tenor and plectrum banjo are still popular in the Upper Midwest for polkas and Dixieland jazz.

JackRyanNPU - Posted - 12/19/2019:  17:26:31


quote:

Originally posted by HerbMeister

I can't speak for the entire country but, tenor and plectrum banjo are still popular in the Upper Midwest for polkas and Dixieland jazz.






Please take this with all due respect; 



 



you said Polka. 

 



While I enjoy playing some from time to time, it is literally the butt of most jokes, and couldn't be further from what's marketable. 

 



Now, I know that 'what's marketable' currently sucks, but what can WE do to bring the 4 string banjo back into the mainstream? 

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 12/19/2019:  19:05:38


Instead of approaching the problem by saying mainstream sucks, one must embrace mainstream. New playing styles need to be developed that are geared more toward the backbeat of Rock or the simplistic harmonies of Country Western, or the monotony of Hip Hop. But that doesn't mean playing "Guns N Roses," "Tim McGraw," or "MC Hammer" It can only happen with original songs performed by someone who has stage presense, sex appeal, an outlandish personality, or --preferably--all three.

One can only hope that some kid will find his great-grandpa's banjo and begin experimenting with it. Shoving old standards down a kid's throat will most likely turn him off, but allowing him to play around unfettered with his own sounds extrapolated from what he hears on the radio and on TV could lead him to something original and captivating.

pasdimo - Posted - 12/19/2019:  21:03:40


I play tenor banjo in various styles of music, klezmer, Balkan music, musette waltz, Nino Rota tunes, etc... and have fun. Tenor banjo is not limited to old jazz.

JackRyanNPU - Posted - 12/20/2019:  07:24:18


quote:

Originally posted by pasdimo

I play tenor banjo in various styles of music, klezmer, Balkan music, musette waltz, Nino Rota tunes, etc... and have fun. Tenor banjo is not limited to old jazz.






Yes, old forgotten genres most haven't heard of. 

 



This topic is about Pop music. 

malarz - Posted - 12/20/2019:  08:45:47


I’ve been playing amplified tenor (CGDA) banjo in a band doing “Kiss” by Prince, “Thrift Shop” by Macklemore, “Sweet Dreams” by The Eurhythmics, “Mercy, Mercy, Mercy” by Cannonball Adderly, “Watermelon Man” by Herbie Hancock. Not all completely contemporary but nary a polka among them! :-)

Ken

Joel Hooks - Posted - 12/20/2019:  09:07:51


I'm on the outside looking in Jack. I have a few friends who are FIGA regulars and play plectrum and tenor.

I can't help with the conundrum. One could start this very conversation about what we call "classic banjo". Fact is, while it was at one time THE style of music to play, it will now forever be special interest. I am okay with that. But I am not looking to make money on selling classic era banjos either.

I see the 4 string banjo world as frozen in a Shakey's Pizza parlor or Irish pub.

I was at the opening of the 4 String Banjo Hall of Fame (aka the American Banjo Museum) in OK and this Shakey's impression was strong there. I still get that from the players-- Styrofoam boaters, sleeve garters, candy striped vests. In fact, it was at that opening that I even learned about the Shakey's Pizza thing. Up to that time I had not even heard of it.

We have a jazz group that plays in parades my my tiny New Hampshire town. They sit in an antique truck bed and play Your Father's Mustache stuff, same outfits as above.

So let's look at that impression. Shakey's Pizza acts were nostalgic fantasy to start with. It was a 1970s impression of the Jazz age while playing 1890s Tin Pan Alley hits. It was already a cliche when it started. And purely anachronistic.

I was either not born yet or just being born so I missed out on all of that. But it sounds like a lot of corny fun to me. My wife and I both agree that if it were going on now, we would go to those pizza parlors and have a sing along.

BUT that whole pizza parlor thing was of it's time. That time has passed.

I realize that my impression is not accurate. I have also been dabbling in very early plectrum repertoire off and on (on nylon strings using the early plectrum tutors) which is basically classic banjo with a pick. It is far from the chord strumming of pizza parlors.

The only way 4 string banjos could become mainstream is, as has been stated, they are used in a totally different fashion than what they were developed for. That is what happened to the Spanish guitar.

The sad reality is that it will likely never happen.

Ancient - Posted - 12/20/2019:  09:09:12


I play both 5 string and 4 string plectrum banjo and love both of them. They are fully chromatic instruments, with which any kind of music can be played. It is up to the player to explore the instrument and possible music. Plectrum banjo is great for strumming chords as backup, or playing a chord melody, or pick out a simple melody. Don’t stereotype the instrument and limit its possibilities.

JackRyanNPU - Posted - 12/20/2019:  10:10:01


quote:

Originally posted by Ancient

I play both 5 string and 4 string plectrum banjo and love both of them. They are fully chromatic instruments, with which any kind of music can be played. It is up to the player to explore the instrument and possible music. Plectrum banjo is great for strumming chords as backup, or playing a chord melody, or pick out a simple melody. Don’t stereotype the instrument and limit its possibilities.






I play plectrum, tenor, and 5 string. 

 



I am trying to NOT stereotype it, but unfortunately most banjo players DO stereotype it.

JRay136 - Posted - 12/20/2019:  11:30:58


While it's not pop or top 40 I always liked this modern jazz solo on tenor banjo

youtube.com/watch?v=xF4ZFy32RxA

I've definitely played tenor banjo in place of a 5-string in modern pop country gigs and nobody bats an eyelash. In the same way that people currently use 6-string banjos, it's as much about the aesthetic as the sound. Banjo is banjo to most musicians and almost all audience members. I haven't heard any use of the 6-string that shows a direct link back to the way Johnny St-Cyr played it. I think the 6-string is more common with pop stars because it's tuned the same as a guitar and many more musicians can play that tuning already. It also has 6-strings so it makes covering/faking some of the 5-string banjo parts a little easier. But if you can play a part, or write a part in a band that works, on 4-string banjo I think almost no musician or audience member would know the difference and certainly wouldn't feel cheated.

I did once play tenor banjo at an underground rave in Berlin with an all electronic band and it went over pretty well. I think single-note staccato "funkier" ideas work well on 4-string banjos with those sounds so I don't think it's impossible that we'll see it on a hit pop song one of these days soon. Someone like Avicii was already incorporating acoustic instruments into electronic hits recently. Whether any pop hits will have any banjo that is unmistakably 4-string I don't know.

But if you want it to be more appealing I'd say make a hit pop song and play 4-string on it. Or get a gig with a pop star that uses banjo and play 4-string. The more people see it done the more common it will become.

trussrod - Posted - 12/20/2019:  11:50:23


I can’t speak for the 5-string world because I left it for the 4-string world back in the ‘60’s. Back in those days the most influential banjo icons were Perry Bechtel and Harry Reser in the East and Eddie Peabody on the West coast. All three played music that was popular for their time. As time passed, both music styles and instrument popularities changed, but the hundreds banjo hobbyists remained comfortable with what they were doing at the time and didn’t look at changes that were happening outside their banjo world. The other change is in the human dynamic. The young people of today are not joiners, and also seem less willing to work at new physical skills. Notice that clubs of every sort are suffering from declining membership because there is no new blood coming in to replace those who are aging out. I do feel that far in the future, acoustic instruments will regain their popularity for a time. Unfortunately none of us will live to see it.

That said, there are 5 banjo bands within a 30 mile circle here in the San Francisco Bay Area and another 90 miles North. Each averages 1 to 2 dozen active players.

majesty - Posted - 12/20/2019:  13:06:31


To not be hokey/cheesy, 4 string players have to change their appearance on stage. Conventions are becoming a thing of the past because: Who wants to spend several hundred dollars to hear many 4 stringers who did not learn their instrument properly, banging away out of rhythm,loud, and fast and furious?
The 4 string banjo in the past has been mostly a rhythm instrument, not getting much attention as the horns, reeds. In the twenties, the 4 stringers knew their stuff in an orchestra, or would get fired. Many of the players today could not play the correct rhythms to satisfy the orchestra leader.
Pop stars start on guitar or piano, which takes a while to learn, so as far as the guitar goes, they naturally go for the 6 string banjo. To play a plectrum or tenor with today's ear deafening music, 4 string banjo players would have to play single notes, amplified. That's why WE , the past generations may not be satisfied with single notes, and are not into that kind of music, nor the substance abuse in the music field of today. Maybe that's why we don't push the 4 string.
Banjo players have to contend with the jokes, the reference to slavery, the public whom ask for song hits by Earl Scruggs, Eddie Peabody, George Formby, none of whom played nor sounded like a tenor banjo.
The tenor solos sound good on folk, ballads, jazz, Civil War tunes, etc., but only when played TASTEFULLY. How many 4 stringers today play tastefully? Only a few.
Okay, enough rambling. I love the tenor banjo, and have made a successful run with it, but I doubt it will ever reach the popularity of the twenties, not in my lifetime. I heard your plectrum on you tube Jack, and by the way, it was tasteful.

guitarbanjoman - Posted - 12/20/2019:  13:36:30


The banjo, much like the clarinet or the accordion, is always going to sound “nostalgic” in spite of the imagination or technique of even its very best players.

And I just don’t see how a “nostalgic” sound will ever fit in with 21st century pop music... except perhaps in the same way that Weird Al Yankovic uses his accordion to satirize popular music.

When you buy a banjo you are buying a ticket to the past, and not to the future.

But the plain truth is that the popular music of the past is in many ways BETTER THAN the popular music of the 21st century... it had funnier lyrics and cleverer chord progressions... wonderful tunes by geniuses such as Cole Porter... George Gershwin... Richard Rodgers... Walter Donaldson...

So I celebrate the banjo for all the wonderful music it has made and still can make...

When I listen to pop radio and hear all the idiotic repetitive lyrics and totally melody-free “melodies”, it just makes me glad not to be wasting my time listening to or playing such drivel.

ukenukem - Posted - 12/20/2019:  13:50:31


I picked up tenor banjo (DGBE) as an extension of playing the ukulele and am working on fingerpicking to incorporate it into folk/pop tunes. Long-term I want to add more trad stuff too.

The only "normal" tenor stuff I'm learning is jazzy chord progressions but since I'm not currently playing with others it is just transferring guitar knowledge to banjo.

The original question is valid. How many people dream of playing on a riverboat? I think it would be cool but I doubt it will happen. It is a sub set instrument with a narrower standard focus than most that does not carry over to modern ears.

Some will find a way to use TB and carry it forward, and I will be a part of that but I'm 64 (not retired yet) and finding young folks to choose TB over guitar or even ukulele will be a challenge if they don't see anyone performing with it on TV.

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 12/20/2019:  19:07:57


quote:

Originally posted by guitarbanjoman

The banjo, much like the clarinet or the accordion, is always going to sound “nostalgic” in spite of the imagination or technique of even its very best players.



And I just don’t see how a “nostalgic” sound will ever fit in with 21st century pop music... except perhaps in the same way that Weird Al Yankovic uses his accordion to satirize popular music.



When you buy a banjo you are buying a ticket to the past, and not to the future.



But the plain truth is that the popular music of the past is in many ways BETTER THAN the popular music of the 21st century... it had funnier lyrics and cleverer chord progressions... wonderful tunes by geniuses such as Cole Porter... George Gershwin... Richard Rodgers... Walter Donaldson...



So I celebrate the banjo for all the wonderful music it has made and still can make...



When I listen to pop radio and hear all the idiotic repetitive lyrics and totally melody-free “melodies”, it just makes me glad not to be wasting my time listening to or playing such drivel.






As far as accordion being "nostalgic," I think you should listen to the soundtrack to the film "12 Monkeys." There is nothing remotely nostalgic in the way the accordion is used in the score. 



"The Tin Hat Trio," an unfortunately obscure quasi-rock group features tenor banjo in a number of tunes, also not nostalgic.



The problem is not nostalgia. The problem is players who reject different and possibly more modern influences. If one wishes for the four string banjos to make a comeback, I would recommend the approach Bela Fleck has taken with the 5 string banjo: he's eclectic, and doesn't reject genres that are not strictly the bluegrass that is expected from the instrument. 



While I doubt seriously if the banjo will ever be as popular as it once was, if people continue playing the same old, same old, it will go the way of the crumhorn; used strictly as an artifact of another era. Sure, old tunes may have had better lyrics and harmonic value, but that's no longer popular. Rock and pop now concentrates a lot on sonorities. There's no reason why a banjo can't contribute to that. But it will take someone with the guts to make changes in the way the instrument is played.

L50EF15 - Posted - 12/20/2019:  19:30:50


”The problem is not nostalgia. The problem is players who reject different and possibly more modern influences. If one wishes for the four string banjos to make a comeback, I would recommend the approach Bela Fleck has taken with the 5 string banjo: he's eclectic, and doesn't reject genres that are not strictly the bluegrass that is expected from the instrument. “

I agree with this. Then again, even though I am not going for the Shakey’s sound (I am just old enough to remember going to Shakey’s as a kid; good pizza), what I do is hardly pop music. Trying to translate Ornette Coleman and free improv onto the tenor is fun, but that’s hardly mass-audience stuff. I get a kick out of doing it, especially when someone says “I didn’t know the banjo could sound like that.” That reaction gives me hope.

ukenukem - Posted - 12/21/2019:  08:42:07


Thought provoking answers! I just realized that today's TB has become more "regionalized" in that you can likely find players/bands in pockets around the world but even those are further subdivided by genre, like NOLA Jazz, show tunes, & ITM.

One way (perhaps) to get more younger folks to think about TB is to go after the ukulele crowd. I consider my TB to be more of a Baritone Banjolele based on 4ths tuning, so at least that might be one idea to expose TB to a group of potential players. There are inexpensive tenor sized banjoleles on Amazon with hundreds of reviews so someone is buying a similar instrument.

Certainly not keeping with TB tradition (tuning wise) though.

Bob

malarz - Posted - 12/21/2019:  09:15:01


Adding to my earlier post I also play tenor banjo as a rhythm accompaniment in Cajun and Breton sessions. Not “pop” or necessarily “modern” but outside the nostalgic Dixieland style. I like to play these two style because the tb brings a very definite rhythmic pulse and drive to the tunes much as, I suppose, the tb did in early 20th century jazz before drums become popular.

guitarbanjoman - Posted - 12/21/2019:  10:31:53


I don't want anyone to get the idea that I am a fan of the Shakey's Pizza kind of banjo music.

For modern playing, I am a fan of Buddy Wachter and that general kind of banjo music.

But from the olden days, the players that excite me the most are guys like Sleepy Hall and Freddy Guy of the Ellington Orchestra... players with a wonderful sense of rhythm and syncopation.

Those jazzy kind of players are the ones I model my own playing upon.

The idea of sitting there wearing a striped vest and playing a load of crap like "I'm Looking Over a Four Leaf Clover"... yick!

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 12/21/2019:  13:22:20


quote:

Originally posted by L50EF15

”The problem is not nostalgia. The problem is players who reject different and possibly more modern influences. If one wishes for the four string banjos to make a comeback, I would recommend the approach Bela Fleck has taken with the 5 string banjo: he's eclectic, and doesn't reject genres that are not strictly the bluegrass that is expected from the instrument. “



I agree with this. Then again, even though I am not going for the Shakey’s sound (I am just old enough to remember going to Shakey’s as a kid; good pizza), what I do is hardly pop music. Trying to translate Ornette Coleman and free improv onto the tenor is fun, but that’s hardly mass-audience stuff. I get a kick out of doing it, especially when someone says “I didn’t know the banjo could sound like that.” That reaction gives me hope.






You must be young. I actually played for a few months at Shakey's. There were two things I hated about it: the stupid striped shirt/plastic straw hat, and the fact that 90% of the eaters weren't listening. We actually went beyond "I'm Looking Over a Four Leaf Clover" kind of junk with tunes like "My Funny Valentine," and some Gershwin, Ellington, and some tunes that were popular at the time (old hat, now.) 



Like so many things, Shakey's music tends to be generalized in some players' minds as being trite, when many times it wasn't. 



The banjo, including the 5 string banjo, has become somewhat limited in its appeal, but it will always be here, unlike the sackbut or the crumhorn. But at this point, I think we'd all be happier if we simply realized the fact its appeal is somewhat limited, and went on playing what we love, be it jazz, Irish, folk, or anything else., and tio appreciate even the small audiences that love it, too. Someone will surely enjoy the sound (after all, there are kids still learning classical music, ragtime and stride piano, and other old hat stuff) and begin to play, but that still won't suddenly make the banjo mainstream. Any youthful participation has to come voluntarily. There's no way to force someone to learn. To paraphrase the old adage: "You can lead a kid to banjo, but you can't make him plink." 

JackRyanNPU - Posted - 12/21/2019:  17:12:38


quote:

Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

quote:

Originally posted by L50EF15

”The problem is not nostalgia. The problem is players who reject different and possibly more modern influences. If one wishes for the four string banjos to make a comeback, I would recommend the approach Bela Fleck has taken with the 5 string banjo: he's eclectic, and doesn't reject genres that are not strictly the bluegrass that is expected from the instrument. “



I agree with this. Then again, even though I am not going for the Shakey’s sound (I am just old enough to remember going to Shakey’s as a kid; good pizza), what I do is hardly pop music. Trying to translate Ornette Coleman and free improv onto the tenor is fun, but that’s hardly mass-audience stuff. I get a kick out of doing it, especially when someone says “I didn’t know the banjo could sound like that.” That reaction gives me hope.






You must be young. I actually played for a few months at Shakey's. There were two things I hated about it: the stupid striped shirt/plastic straw hat, and the fact that 90% of the eaters weren't listening. We actually went beyond "I'm Looking Over a Four Leaf Clover" kind of junk with tunes like "My Funny Valentine," and some Gershwin, Ellington, and some tunes that were popular at the time (old hat, now.) 



Like so many things, Shakey's music tends to be generalized in some players' minds as being trite, when many times it wasn't. 



The banjo, including the 5 string banjo, has become somewhat limited in its appeal, but it will always be here, unlike the sackbut or the crumhorn. But at this point, I think we'd all be happier if we simply realized the fact its appeal is somewhat limited, and went on playing what we love, be it jazz, Irish, folk, or anything else., and tio appreciate even the small audiences that love it, too. Someone will surely enjoy the sound (after all, there are kids still learning classical music, ragtime and stride piano, and other old hat stuff) and begin to play, but that still won't suddenly make the banjo mainstream. Any youthful participation has to come voluntarily. There's no way to force someone to learn. To paraphrase the old adage: "You can lead a kid to banjo, but you can't make him plink." 






I'll have to disagree with "But at this point, I think we'd all be happier if we simply realized the fact its appeal is somewhat limited, and went on playing what we love, be it jazz, Irish, folk, or anything else., and tio appreciate even the small audiences that love it, too."



 



Do you realize that most of the people who currently enjoy the music will be dead within the next two decades?

csacwp - Posted - 12/21/2019:  19:53:27


Plectrum and tenor banjo playing was featured prominently in many of the old commercial hillbilly recordings of the 1920s and 1930s. Similarly, they were used extensively in old-time before the folk revival. Many historical recordings heralded by the old-time community as prime examples of authentic banjo playing are in fact of plectrum banjoists imitating 5-string playing. Though there would likely be some pushback from the anachronistic modern festival crowd, I think old-time is a logical place for four string players to expand into. Alternatively, a revival of the solo plectrum repetoire (i.e. Emile Grimshaw, etc) is long overdue.

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 12/21/2019:  21:08:21


quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by G Edward Porgie

quote:

Originally posted by L50EF15

”The problem is not nostalgia. The problem is players who reject different and possibly more modern influences. If one wishes for the four string banjos to make a comeback, I would recommend the approach Bela Fleck has taken with the 5 string banjo: he's eclectic, and doesn't reject genres that are not strictly the bluegrass that is expected from the instrument. “



I agree with this. Then again, even though I am not going for the Shakey’s sound (I am just old enough to remember going to Shakey’s as a kid; good pizza), what I do is hardly pop music. Trying to translate Ornette Coleman and free improv onto the tenor is fun, but that’s hardly mass-audience stuff. I get a kick out of doing it, especially when someone says “I didn’t know the banjo could sound like that.” That reaction gives me hope.






You must be young. I actually played for a few months at Shakey's. There were two things I hated about it: the stupid striped shirt/plastic straw hat, and the fact that 90% of the eaters weren't listening. We actually went beyond "I'm Looking Over a Four Leaf Clover" kind of junk with tunes like "My Funny Valentine," and some Gershwin, Ellington, and some tunes that were popular at the time (old hat, now.) 



Like so many things, Shakey's music tends to be generalized in some players' minds as being trite, when many times it wasn't. 



The banjo, including the 5 string banjo, has become somewhat limited in its appeal, but it will always be here, unlike the sackbut or the crumhorn. But at this point, I think we'd all be happier if we simply realized the fact its appeal is somewhat limited, and went on playing what we love, be it jazz, Irish, folk, or anything else., and tio appreciate even the small audiences that love it, too. Someone will surely enjoy the sound (after all, there are kids still learning classical music, ragtime and stride piano, and other old hat stuff) and begin to play, but that still won't suddenly make the banjo mainstream. Any youthful participation has to come voluntarily. There's no way to force someone to learn. To paraphrase the old adage: "You can lead a kid to banjo, but you can't make him plink." 






I'll have to disagree with "But at this point, I think we'd all be happier if we simply realized the fact its appeal is somewhat limited, and went on playing what we love, be it jazz, Irish, folk, or anything else., and tio appreciate even the small audiences that love it, too."



 



Do you realize that most of the people who currently enjoy the music will be dead within the next two decades?






You seem to have missed the sentence where I said that someone listening will surely like what he hears and take it up, just as there are kids still learning classical music, ragtime, and stride piano. I know this to be true simply because I've seen it in all those fields. I get a little sick of those who whine about everybody dying in 20 years. The audience that harpsichord music was aimed at has been dead for a few centuries, yet there are still people playing that instrument. 



My point is be happy with what you've got. It's not dead yet, nor is the audience, although it isn't huge. And there are still some youthful players, as this site should prove. 

guitarbanjoman - Posted - 12/21/2019:  23:22:31


How wonderful to learn of this being a “thing”.


I’ve long admired the plectrum banjo accompanying Jimmy Rodgers’ in “Mississippi Delta Blues”


m.youtube.com/watch?v=u0-zOsciwUc


quote:

Originally posted by csacwp

Plectrum and tenor banjo playing was featured prominently in many of the old commercial hillbilly recordings of the 1920s and 1930s. Similarly, they were used extensively in old-time before the folk revival. Many historical recordings heralded by the old-time community as prime examples of authentic banjo playing are in fact of plectrum banjoists imitating 5-string playing. Though there would likely be some pushback from the anachronistic modern festival crowd, I think old-time is a logical place for four string players to expand into. Alternatively, a revival of the solo plectrum repetoire (i.e. Emile Grimshaw, etc) is long overdue.






 


Edited by - guitarbanjoman on 12/21/2019 23:23:24

jan dupree - Posted - 12/22/2019:  13:03:56


A lot of singers say the tenor banjo is hard to sing along with. Outside of New Orleans Dixieland groups, there is zero demand for a 4 string tenor at the Professional Entertainment level. My Epiphone Concert Recording tenor has been sitting in my closet almost untouched for the last 35 years. I was offered $6000 for it about 5 years ago, but for some reason I did'nt sell it.

mike gregory - Posted - 12/22/2019:  13:43:26


Ummm.... I can't understand how ANY singers would say that ANY instrument, properly played as an accompaniment, is "hard to sing along with".

Including crumhorn and/or bagpipes.
(Although the vocalist might need be a lot closer to the mic than the piper.)

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 12/22/2019:  13:52:35


Maybe the problem singers have is when they sing along with a BAD banjo player (or with bad players of those other instruments). There are some musicians who tend to hog the spotlight, ignoring everyone else, and I've known at least one banjo player who did just that. He could drown out a full marching band, let alone a singer.

JackRyanNPU - Posted - 12/22/2019:  14:36:06


quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

A lot of singers say the tenor banjo is hard to sing along with. Outside of New Orleans Dixieland groups, there is zero demand for a 4 string tenor at the Professional Entertainment level. My Epiphone Concert Recording tenor has been sitting in my closet almost untouched for the last 35 years. I was offered $6000 for it about 5 years ago, but for some reason I did'nt sell it.






That's a bunch of hogwash. 

 



Have you ever sung with a 5 string banjo player who can't play(most fall into this category) and they overcompensate by playing loud. 

 



Have you ever played gigs with sax players who won't just shut up? 

 



Great 4 string banjo players know how to draw sweet and sublime tones out of their banjos just as mellow as a flat wound strung Gibson L-5 on a Deluxe Reverb. 

 



'because it's too loud' 



 



do you not understand that the 4 string was used in most orchestras that were backing up singers? It's called a MICROPHONE. 

 



SMH!

jan dupree - Posted - 12/22/2019:  15:00:10


quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

A lot of singers say the tenor banjo is hard to sing along with. Outside of New Orleans Dixieland groups, there is zero demand for a 4 string tenor at the Professional Entertainment level. My Epiphone Concert Recording tenor has been sitting in my closet almost untouched for the last 35 years. I was offered $6000 for it about 5 years ago, but for some reason I did'nt sell it.






That's a bunch of hogwash. 

 



Have you ever sung with a 5 string banjo player who can't play(most fall into this category) and they overcompensate by playing loud. 

 



Have you ever played gigs with sax players who won't just shut up? 

 



Great 4 string banjo players know how to draw sweet and sublime tones out of their banjos just as mellow as a flat wound strung Gibson L-5 on a Deluxe Reverb. 

 



'because it's too loud' 



 



do you not understand that the 4 string was used in most orchestras that were backing up singers? It's called a MICROPHONE. 

 



SMH!






Yeah, orchestras, or full Dixieland bands. I've never seen a singer accompanying himself on a 4 string banjo. Guitar is always the go to instrument.


Edited by - jan dupree on 12/22/2019 15:01:56

JackRyanNPU - Posted - 12/22/2019:  15:27:06


quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

A lot of singers say the tenor banjo is hard to sing along with. Outside of New Orleans Dixieland groups, there is zero demand for a 4 string tenor at the Professional Entertainment level. My Epiphone Concert Recording tenor has been sitting in my closet almost untouched for the last 35 years. I was offered $6000 for it about 5 years ago, but for some reason I did'nt sell it.






That's a bunch of hogwash. 

 



Have you ever sung with a 5 string banjo player who can't play(most fall into this category) and they overcompensate by playing loud. 

 



Have you ever played gigs with sax players who won't just shut up? 

 



Great 4 string banjo players know how to draw sweet and sublime tones out of their banjos just as mellow as a flat wound strung Gibson L-5 on a Deluxe Reverb. 

 



'because it's too loud' 



 



do you not understand that the 4 string was used in most orchestras that were backing up singers? It's called a MICROPHONE. 

 



SMH!






Yeah, orchestras, or full Dixieland bands. I've never seen a singer accompanying himself on a 4 string banjo. Guitar is always the go to instrument.






You must not be a man of the world. 

 



While guitar of course dominates(over all instruments ever made) 



 



Ive seen plenty use the banjo as accompaniment to their voice. 

 



I am one of them. Such a pleasant sound to sing with. 

banjotrader - Posted - 12/22/2019:  17:01:22


It’s all a matter of what’s relevant and your point of reference. Redoing the past won’t bring it back. I’m lucky enough to play a style of music that has been a constant, and relevant, in the culture of traditional dance for hundreds of years. So the banjo (just being another melody instrument), among others is welcome and an extension of the overall sound in a group. I dont find myself hanging on to old ideas/ways and having it feel nostalgic, its just what is it. That being said, there are many enthusiast groups mimicking a culture who dont genuinely aspire to continue a lineage, but just pretend to be in it. That’s a dead end.
So in short, artificially sustaining something keeps only a version of the overall truth. Look at sources of long standing traditions, absorb the meaning and reasons for it; if you’re lucky you’ll manage to entice others to do the same.

JackRyanNPU - Posted - 12/22/2019:  20:41:28


quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

A lot of singers say the tenor banjo is hard to sing along with. Outside of New Orleans Dixieland groups, there is zero demand for a 4 string tenor at the Professional Entertainment level. My Epiphone Concert Recording tenor has been sitting in my closet almost untouched for the last 35 years. I was offered $6000 for it about 5 years ago, but for some reason I did'nt sell it.






That's a bunch of hogwash. 

 



Have you ever sung with a 5 string banjo player who can't play(most fall into this category) and they overcompensate by playing loud. 

 



Have you ever played gigs with sax players who won't just shut up? 

 



Great 4 string banjo players know how to draw sweet and sublime tones out of their banjos just as mellow as a flat wound strung Gibson L-5 on a Deluxe Reverb. 

 



'because it's too loud' 



 



do you not understand that the 4 string was used in most orchestras that were backing up singers? It's called a MICROPHONE. 

 



SMH!






Yeah, orchestras, or full Dixieland bands. I've never seen a singer accompanying himself on a 4 string banjo. Guitar is always the go to instrument.






CLICK HERE TO SEE A PROVEN POINT.

Omeboy - Posted - 12/22/2019:  21:12:19


Some more for Mr. Dupree:



Buddy Wachter sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=INm2u1OIVig



Lee Floyd sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=rjOnFrtxC3I

 

jan dupree - Posted - 12/22/2019:  21:46:39


quote:

Originally posted by Omeboy

Some more for Mr. Dupree:



Buddy Wachter sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=INm2u1OIVig



Lee Floyd sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=rjOnFrtxC3I

 






The one from 1929 is in Guitar tuning and playing with his fingers, Wachtor is barely touching the strings, and the last one is with a Dixieland Band doing a Traditional Dixieland song. Yeah, the 4 string tenor banjo was at the top 90 years ago in those Genres. But music changes and singing styles, playing, and songs change. It's good for playing low down Basin Street Blues, and Scott Joplin Ragtime, which is the reason I learned to play it 55 years ago. If anybody can "Invent" Modern Day versions of those Genres to appeal to todays audience the 4 string could make a come back. But as it stands now, I would'nt encourage any young person to spend their time learning the 4 string. Especially if they want to play Professionally, or even just playing before people. The only times I have played mine in the last 50 years was in College with a Dixieland Band for a couple of months, about 12 years ago at a funeral "Just a closer Walk with Thee" and Elton John's "Honky Cat" with a Professional Nashville Piano player in a living room, with a few people listening, and by my self at home playing Jimmie Rodgers "Any Old Time".

JackRyanNPU - Posted - 12/23/2019:  07:44:05


quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by Omeboy

Some more for Mr. Dupree:



Buddy Wachter sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=INm2u1OIVig



Lee Floyd sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=rjOnFrtxC3I

 






The one from 1929 is in Guitar tuning and playing with his fingers, Wachtor is barely touching the strings, and the last one is with a Dixieland Band doing a Traditional Dixieland song. Yeah, the 4 string tenor banjo was at the top 90 years ago in those Genres. But music changes and singing styles, playing, and songs change. It's good for playing low down Basin Street Blues, and Scott Joplin Ragtime, which is the reason I learned to play it 55 years ago. If anybody can "Invent" Modern Day versions of those Genres to appeal to todays audience the 4 string could make a come back. But as it stands now, I would'nt encourage any young person to spend their time learning the 4 string. Especially if they want to play Professionally, or even just playing before people. The only times I have played mine in the last 50 years was in College with a Dixieland Band for a couple of months, about 12 years ago at a funeral "Just a closer Walk with Thee" and Elton John's "Honky Cat" with a Professional Nashville Piano player in a living room, with a few people listening, and by my self at home playing Jimmie Rodgers "Any Old Time".






You wouldn't encourage a young person to play 4 string banjo? 

 



Get the hell out of this forum. 

 



You are part of the problem.

Joel Hooks - Posted - 12/23/2019:  07:54:37


Perhaps the future will be Mummers Parades?

Texasbanjo - Posted - 12/23/2019:  08:09:15


JackRyanNPU

Jack -- watch your language and you have no right to tell someone to get out of a forum. Read the rules and regulations again and please, try to be civil.

jan dupree - Posted - 12/23/2019:  08:22:15


quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by Omeboy

Some more for Mr. Dupree:



Buddy Wachter sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=INm2u1OIVig



Lee Floyd sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=rjOnFrtxC3I

 






The one from 1929 is in Guitar tuning and playing with his fingers, Wachtor is barely touching the strings, and the last one is with a Dixieland Band doing a Traditional Dixieland song. Yeah, the 4 string tenor banjo was at the top 90 years ago in those Genres. But music changes and singing styles, playing, and songs change. It's good for playing low down Basin Street Blues, and Scott Joplin Ragtime, which is the reason I learned to play it 55 years ago. If anybody can "Invent" Modern Day versions of those Genres to appeal to todays audience the 4 string could make a come back. But as it stands now, I would'nt encourage any young person to spend their time learning the 4 string. Especially if they want to play Professionally, or even just playing before people. The only times I have played mine in the last 50 years was in College with a Dixieland Band for a couple of months, about 12 years ago at a funeral "Just a closer Walk with Thee" and Elton John's "Honky Cat" with a Professional Nashville Piano player in a living room, with a few people listening, and by my self at home playing Jimmie Rodgers "Any Old Time".






You wouldn't encourage a young person to play 4 string banjo? 

 



Get the hell out of this forum. 

 



You are part of the problem.






As a side instrument, I have nothing against them learning to play any instrument. But to spend years, and thousands of dollars and hours mastering an instrument, that offers them no opportunity to play on a Professional level in the Entertainment Industry, makes no sense. One Hit Wonders like "Sweet City Woman" only come along about once every 50 years, and are played by the Band's guitar player, who rents a banjo at a Music Store,  buys a chord book, and spends a week learning the positions of the 2 chords, then records the song. 

JackRyanNPU - Posted - 12/23/2019:  09:24:49


quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by Omeboy

Some more for Mr. Dupree:



Buddy Wachter sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=INm2u1OIVig



Lee Floyd sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=rjOnFrtxC3I

 






The one from 1929 is in Guitar tuning and playing with his fingers, Wachtor is barely touching the strings, and the last one is with a Dixieland Band doing a Traditional Dixieland song. Yeah, the 4 string tenor banjo was at the top 90 years ago in those Genres. But music changes and singing styles, playing, and songs change. It's good for playing low down Basin Street Blues, and Scott Joplin Ragtime, which is the reason I learned to play it 55 years ago. If anybody can "Invent" Modern Day versions of those Genres to appeal to todays audience the 4 string could make a come back. But as it stands now, I would'nt encourage any young person to spend their time learning the 4 string. Especially if they want to play Professionally, or even just playing before people. The only times I have played mine in the last 50 years was in College with a Dixieland Band for a couple of months, about 12 years ago at a funeral "Just a closer Walk with Thee" and Elton John's "Honky Cat" with a Professional Nashville Piano player in a living room, with a few people listening, and by my self at home playing Jimmie Rodgers "Any Old Time".






You wouldn't encourage a young person to play 4 string banjo? 

 



Get the hell out of this forum. 

 



You are part of the problem.






As a side instrument, I have nothing against them learning to play any instrument. But to spend years, and thousands of dollars and hours mastering an instrument, that offers them no opportunity to play on a Professional level in the Entertainment Industry, makes no sense. One Hit Wonders like "Sweet City Woman" only come along about once every 50 years, and are played by the Band's guitar player, who rents a banjo at a Music Store,  buys a chord book, and spends a week learning the positions of the 2 chords, then records the song. 






You are missing the point. 

 



 

jan dupree - Posted - 12/23/2019:  12:21:42


quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by Omeboy

Some more for Mr. Dupree:



Buddy Wachter sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=INm2u1OIVig



Lee Floyd sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=rjOnFrtxC3I

 






The one from 1929 is in Guitar tuning and playing with his fingers, Wachtor is barely touching the strings, and the last one is with a Dixieland Band doing a Traditional Dixieland song. Yeah, the 4 string tenor banjo was at the top 90 years ago in those Genres. But music changes and singing styles, playing, and songs change. It's good for playing low down Basin Street Blues, and Scott Joplin Ragtime, which is the reason I learned to play it 55 years ago. If anybody can "Invent" Modern Day versions of those Genres to appeal to todays audience the 4 string could make a come back. But as it stands now, I would'nt encourage any young person to spend their time learning the 4 string. Especially if they want to play Professionally, or even just playing before people. The only times I have played mine in the last 50 years was in College with a Dixieland Band for a couple of months, about 12 years ago at a funeral "Just a closer Walk with Thee" and Elton John's "Honky Cat" with a Professional Nashville Piano player in a living room, with a few people listening, and by my self at home playing Jimmie Rodgers "Any Old Time".






You wouldn't encourage a young person to play 4 string banjo? 

 



Get the hell out of this forum. 

 



You are part of the problem.






As a side instrument, I have nothing against them learning to play any instrument. But to spend years, and thousands of dollars and hours mastering an instrument, that offers them no opportunity to play on a Professional level in the Entertainment Industry, makes no sense. One Hit Wonders like "Sweet City Woman" only come along about once every 50 years, and are played by the Band's guitar player, who rents a banjo at a Music Store,  buys a chord book, and spends a week learning the positions of the 2 chords, then records the song. 






You are missing the point. 



The topic subject which was posted, dealt with the future of the tenor banjo, and the Genre of music it has historically been associated with. Any serious observer of the music scene over the last 100 years will tell you what I have stated. It's just a fact. If I had a son, I would not encourage him to take years of lessons, thousands of hours practicing, drive thousands of miles taking him to those lessons, and spend $5000 on an instrument that  will offer limited opportunities for him to showcase his abilities on that instrument. All of the foregoing happened to me, but fortunately I realized while still at a young enough age, to take up the 5 string Banjo and Guitar. I just wish one of them would have been the instrument I started on. So I would say I'm right on point, it's just not your point. At this time, the future of the 4 string banjo outside of New Orleans Jazz Clubs is non-existent as a serious entertainment instrument in the Modern Music Scene. This is even further evidenced by the fact that, only a couple of builders even make 4 string banjos, and it is by special order. And most of the ones in existence have already been, or will be converted to 5 string. But I'm not telling anybody to not play a 4 string, or spend a couple of years learning to play one. I play a few songs on mine once or twice a year. I just accept reality.

 






 


Edited by - jan dupree on 12/23/2019 12:35:11

G Edward Porgie - Posted - 12/23/2019:  12:56:54


quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by Omeboy

Some more for Mr. Dupree:



Buddy Wachter sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=INm2u1OIVig



Lee Floyd sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=rjOnFrtxC3I

 






The one from 1929 is in Guitar tuning and playing with his fingers, Wachtor is barely touching the strings, and the last one is with a Dixieland Band doing a Traditional Dixieland song. Yeah, the 4 string tenor banjo was at the top 90 years ago in those Genres. But music changes and singing styles, playing, and songs change. It's good for playing low down Basin Street Blues, and Scott Joplin Ragtime, which is the reason I learned to play it 55 years ago. If anybody can "Invent" Modern Day versions of those Genres to appeal to todays audience the 4 string could make a come back. But as it stands now, I would'nt encourage any young person to spend their time learning the 4 string. Especially if they want to play Professionally, or even just playing before people. The only times I have played mine in the last 50 years was in College with a Dixieland Band for a couple of months, about 12 years ago at a funeral "Just a closer Walk with Thee" and Elton John's "Honky Cat" with a Professional Nashville Piano player in a living room, with a few people listening, and by my self at home playing Jimmie Rodgers "Any Old Time".






You wouldn't encourage a young person to play 4 string banjo? 

 



Get the hell out of this forum. 

 



You are part of the problem.






As a side instrument, I have nothing against them learning to play any instrument. But to spend years, and thousands of dollars and hours mastering an instrument, that offers them no opportunity to play on a Professional level in the Entertainment Industry, makes no sense. One Hit Wonders like "Sweet City Woman" only come along about once every 50 years, and are played by the Band's guitar player, who rents a banjo at a Music Store,  buys a chord book, and spends a week learning the positions of the 2 chords, then records the song. 






You are missing the point. 



The topic subject which was posted, dealt with the future of the tenor banjo, and the Genre of music it has historically been associated with. Any serious observer of the music scene over the last 100 years will tell you what I have stated. It's just a fact. If I had a son, I would not encourage him to take years of lessons, thousands of hours practicing, drive thousands of miles taking him to those lessons, and spend $5000 on an instrument that  will offer limited opportunities for him to showcase his abilities on that instrument. All of the foregoing happened to me, but fortunately I realized while still at a young enough age, to take up the 5 string Banjo and Guitar. I just wish one of them would have been the instrument I started on. So I would say I'm right on point, it's just not your point. At this time, the future of the 4 string banjo outside of New Orleans Jazz Clubs is non-existent as a serious entertainment instrument in the Modern Music Scene. This is even further evidenced by the fact that, only a couple of builders even make 4 string banjos, and it is by special order. And most of the ones in existence have already been, or will be converted to 5 string. But I'm not telling anybody to not play a 4 string, or spend a couple of years learning to play one. I play a few songs on mine once or twice a year. I just accept reality.

 






 






Maybe if people like yourself didn't give up so easily and attempt to discourage others, the four string banjo would be more in use.  



I can see your point to an extent, but if someone really wishes to play, I see no reason to stomp on their enthusiasm. Would you have discouraged Van Gogh from buying an easel and paints when he sold exactly one canvas for a can of sardines?  Is the joy of accomplishment outweighed by a lack of employment? I don't think a true artist cares, so long as he/she creates something, be it lute building, knitting, spinning pots, writing a novel, or banjo playing.



l'll  never make any money, but I still enjoy playing. I'm sure others simply play for pleasure, and will learn a new skill for pleasure, too.

JackRyanNPU - Posted - 12/23/2019:  13:07:58


quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by Omeboy

Some more for Mr. Dupree:



Buddy Wachter sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=INm2u1OIVig



Lee Floyd sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=rjOnFrtxC3I

 






The one from 1929 is in Guitar tuning and playing with his fingers, Wachtor is barely touching the strings, and the last one is with a Dixieland Band doing a Traditional Dixieland song. Yeah, the 4 string tenor banjo was at the top 90 years ago in those Genres. But music changes and singing styles, playing, and songs change. It's good for playing low down Basin Street Blues, and Scott Joplin Ragtime, which is the reason I learned to play it 55 years ago. If anybody can "Invent" Modern Day versions of those Genres to appeal to todays audience the 4 string could make a come back. But as it stands now, I would'nt encourage any young person to spend their time learning the 4 string. Especially if they want to play Professionally, or even just playing before people. The only times I have played mine in the last 50 years was in College with a Dixieland Band for a couple of months, about 12 years ago at a funeral "Just a closer Walk with Thee" and Elton John's "Honky Cat" with a Professional Nashville Piano player in a living room, with a few people listening, and by my self at home playing Jimmie Rodgers "Any Old Time".






You wouldn't encourage a young person to play 4 string banjo? 

 



Get the hell out of this forum. 

 



You are part of the problem.






As a side instrument, I have nothing against them learning to play any instrument. But to spend years, and thousands of dollars and hours mastering an instrument, that offers them no opportunity to play on a Professional level in the Entertainment Industry, makes no sense. One Hit Wonders like "Sweet City Woman" only come along about once every 50 years, and are played by the Band's guitar player, who rents a banjo at a Music Store,  buys a chord book, and spends a week learning the positions of the 2 chords, then records the song. 






You are missing the point. 



The topic subject which was posted, dealt with the future of the tenor banjo, and the Genre of music it has historically been associated with. Any serious observer of the music scene over the last 100 years will tell you what I have stated. It's just a fact. If I had a son, I would not encourage him to take years of lessons, thousands of hours practicing, drive thousands of miles taking him to those lessons, and spend $5000 on an instrument that  will offer limited opportunities for him to showcase his abilities on that instrument. All of the foregoing happened to me, but fortunately I realized while still at a young enough age, to take up the 5 string Banjo and Guitar. I just wish one of them would have been the instrument I started on. So I would say I'm right on point, it's just not your point. At this time, the future of the 4 string banjo outside of New Orleans Jazz Clubs is non-existent as a serious entertainment instrument in the Modern Music Scene. This is even further evidenced by the fact that, only a couple of builders even make 4 string banjos, and it is by special order. And most of the ones in existence have already been, or will be converted to 5 string. But I'm not telling anybody to not play a 4 string, or spend a couple of years learning to play one. I play a few songs on mine once or twice a year. I just accept reality.

 






 






Why respond if you aren't a 4 string banjo player? It's obvious you have a vendetta against the instrument. Maybe you were unable to play good tremolo? Maybe you didn't have a very good instrument? Maybe you never were around any of the great teachers like Mr Bechtel?



 



Who knows, but you are speaking out of place and out of turn, and for this, I think I will ignore any post that you have from now on because its not constructive to mine. 

 



I play guitar and 5 string banjo, and many other instruments. I own a teaching student and we develop competent musicians, many of them who play the 4 string banjo.



 



5 string open tuned banjo is a bore to me, as it is to most plectrum and tenor players who add it to their wheelhouse. 

 



I just tune mine in The original 5 string tuning with the 4th string tuned to C and it is more useful and not so limiting and uninspiring. 

 



I think you are best served going to another part of this forum as we actually like and embrace the 4 string rather than complain about how it beat us and we're scared of it.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 12/23/2019:  14:54:51


JackRyanNPU Again, Jack, please try to be civil and don't act like a moderator..... you aren't one.

okbluegrassbanjopicker - Posted - 12/23/2019:  15:55:49


Jack,



I’ve seen other members get upset at offending members, but never before anything like, “Get the ____ off this forum.” 



Outright disrespect and slamming members just because they don’t agree completely with your viewpoint, is not going to get you anywhere. It is becoming more obvious to me, that you have the habit of attempting to force your opinions down the throat of other members. It just won’t work.



Private email is what members should employ when they disagree, but not the public Banjo Hangout! 


Edited by - okbluegrassbanjopicker on 12/23/2019 16:01:01

JackRyanNPU - Posted - 12/23/2019:  16:17:39


quote:

Originally posted by bluegrassbanjopicker

Jack,



I’ve seen other members get upset at offending members, but never before anything like, “Get the ____ off this forum.” 



Outright disrespect and slamming members just because they don’t agree completely with your viewpoint, is not going to get you anywhere. It is becoming more obvious to me, that you have the habit of attempting to force your opinions down the throat of other members. It just won’t work.



Private email is what members should employ when they disagree, but not the public Banjo Hangout! 






Thanks for your opinion.



 



I did not ask for it, but at least it was free. 

jan dupree - Posted - 12/23/2019:  17:23:16


quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by Omeboy

Some more for Mr. Dupree:



Buddy Wachter sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=INm2u1OIVig



Lee Floyd sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=rjOnFrtxC3I

 






The one from 1929 is in Guitar tuning and playing with his fingers, Wachtor is barely touching the strings, and the last one is with a Dixieland Band doing a Traditional Dixieland song. Yeah, the 4 string tenor banjo was at the top 90 years ago in those Genres. But music changes and singing styles, playing, and songs change. It's good for playing low down Basin Street Blues, and Scott Joplin Ragtime, which is the reason I learned to play it 55 years ago. If anybody can "Invent" Modern Day versions of those Genres to appeal to todays audience the 4 string could make a come back. But as it stands now, I would'nt encourage any young person to spend their time learning the 4 string. Especially if they want to play Professionally, or even just playing before people. The only times I have played mine in the last 50 years was in College with a Dixieland Band for a couple of months, about 12 years ago at a funeral "Just a closer Walk with Thee" and Elton John's "Honky Cat" with a Professional Nashville Piano player in a living room, with a few people listening, and by my self at home playing Jimmie Rodgers "Any Old Time".






You wouldn't encourage a young person to play 4 string banjo? 

 



Get the hell out of this forum. 

 



You are part of the problem.






As a side instrument, I have nothing against them learning to play any instrument. But to spend years, and thousands of dollars and hours mastering an instrument, that offers them no opportunity to play on a Professional level in the Entertainment Industry, makes no sense. One Hit Wonders like "Sweet City Woman" only come along about once every 50 years, and are played by the Band's guitar player, who rents a banjo at a Music Store,  buys a chord book, and spends a week learning the positions of the 2 chords, then records the song. 






You are missing the point. 



The topic subject which was posted, dealt with the future of the tenor banjo, and the Genre of music it has historically been associated with. Any serious observer of the music scene over the last 100 years will tell you what I have stated. It's just a fact. If I had a son, I would not encourage him to take years of lessons, thousands of hours practicing, drive thousands of miles taking him to those lessons, and spend $5000 on an instrument that  will offer limited opportunities for him to showcase his abilities on that instrument. All of the foregoing happened to me, but fortunately I realized while still at a young enough age, to take up the 5 string Banjo and Guitar. I just wish one of them would have been the instrument I started on. So I would say I'm right on point, it's just not your point. At this time, the future of the 4 string banjo outside of New Orleans Jazz Clubs is non-existent as a serious entertainment instrument in the Modern Music Scene. This is even further evidenced by the fact that, only a couple of builders even make 4 string banjos, and it is by special order. And most of the ones in existence have already been, or will be converted to 5 string. But I'm not telling anybody to not play a 4 string, or spend a couple of years learning to play one. I play a few songs on mine once or twice a year. I just accept reality.

 






 






Why respond if you aren't a 4 string banjo player? It's obvious you have a vendetta against the instrument. Maybe you were unable to play good tremolo? Maybe you didn't have a very good instrument? Maybe you never were around any of the great teachers like Mr Bechtel?



 



Who knows, but you are speaking out of place and out of turn, and for this, I think I will ignore any post that you have from now on because its not constructive to mine. 

 



I play guitar and 5 string banjo, and many other instruments. I own a teaching student and we develop competent musicians, many of them who play the 4 string banjo.



 



5 string open tuned banjo is a bore to me, as it is to most plectrum and tenor players who add it to their wheelhouse. 

 



I just tune mine in The original 5 string tuning with the 4th string tuned to C and it is more useful and not so limiting and uninspiring. 

 



I think you are best served going to another part of this forum as we actually like and embrace the 4 string rather than complain about how it beat us and we're scared of it.






I do play the 4 string but now very seldom. I do have a quality  banjo, a 1929 Epiphone Concert Recording, and a Vega before that, I did have a good teacher, he had a Masters Degree in Music and was 73 years old in 1967 when I took lessons from him from 1963-1967, he played professionally all during the 20's and 30's tenor banjo and guitar, I played tremolo with a flimsy pick single string, and melody chords of every shape all up the neck with various strumming techniques. But when the little bit of demand the 4 string did have in the early and mid 60's with Village Stompers, Peter and Gordon, Mamas and Pappas disappeared, and Bluegrass made came on the scene with a resurgence in the early 60's, it was all over for me with the 4 string banjo, when I saw what could be done on a 5 string, and the response it generated from people hearing. I stayed with it on and off throughout the years as circumstanced permitted. But always wished I had originally took the lessons on the 5 string instead of the 4 string, due to the fact the 4 string is kid's stuff compared to learning to play a 5 string, there is no comparison. It's like driving an Indy car vs. a factory stock Honda Accord.

jan dupree - Posted - 12/23/2019:  17:25:52


quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by bluegrassbanjopicker

Jack,



I’ve seen other members get upset at offending members, but never before anything like, “Get the ____ off this forum.” 



Outright disrespect and slamming members just because they don’t agree completely with your viewpoint, is not going to get you anywhere. It is becoming more obvious to me, that you have the habit of attempting to force your opinions down the throat of other members. It just won’t work.



Private email is what members should employ when they disagree, but not the public Banjo Hangout! 






Thanks for your opinion.



 



I did not ask for it, but at least it was free. 






The original poster of the topic pretty much alluded to what I said in my posts. I was just giving some real life evidence to back him up.

JackRyanNPU - Posted - 12/23/2019:  18:02:50


quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by JackRyanNPU

quote:

Originally posted by jan dupree

quote:

Originally posted by Omeboy

Some more for Mr. Dupree:



Buddy Wachter sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=INm2u1OIVig



Lee Floyd sings and plays: youtube.com/watch?v=rjOnFrtxC3I

 






The one from 1929 is in Guitar tuning and playing with his fingers, Wachtor is barely touching the strings, and the last one is with a Dixieland Band doing a Traditional Dixieland song. Yeah, the 4 string tenor banjo was at the top 90 years ago in those Genres. But music changes and singing styles, playing, and songs change. It's good for playing low down Basin Street Blues, and Scott Joplin Ragtime, which is the reason I learned to play it 55 years ago. If anybody can "Invent" Modern Day versions of those Genres to appeal to todays audience the 4 string could make a come back. But as it stands now, I would'nt encourage any young person to spend their time learning the 4 string. Especially if they want to play Professionally, or even just playing before people. The only times I have played mine in the last 50 years was in College with a Dixieland Band for a couple of months, about 12 years ago at a funeral "Just a closer Walk with Thee" and Elton John's "Honky Cat" with a Professional Nashville Piano player in a living room, with a few people listening, and by my self at home playing Jimmie Rodgers "Any Old Time".






You wouldn't encourage a young person to play 4 string banjo? 

 



Get the hell out of this forum. 

 



You are part of the problem.






As a side instrument, I have nothing against them learning to play any instrument. But to spend years, and thousands of dollars and hours mastering an instrument, that offers them no opportunity to play on a Professional level in the Entertainment Industry, makes no sense. One Hit Wonders like "Sweet City Woman" only come along about once every 50 years, and are played by the Band's guitar player, who rents a banjo at a Music Store,  buys a chord book, and spends a week learning the positions of the 2 chords, then records the song. 






You are missing the point. 



The topic subject which was posted, dealt with the future of the tenor banjo, and the Genre of music it has historically been associated with. Any serious observer of the music scene over the last 100 years will tell you what I have stated. It's just a fact. If I had a son, I would not encourage him to take years of lessons, thousands of hours practicing, drive thousands of miles taking him to those lessons, and spend $5000 on an instrument that  will offer limited opportunities for him to showcase his abilities on that instrument. All of the foregoing happened to me, but fortunately I realized while still at a young enough age, to take up the 5 string Banjo and Guitar. I just wish one of them would have been the instrument I started on. So I would say I'm right on point, it's just not your point. At this time, the future of the 4 string banjo outside of New Orleans Jazz Clubs is non-existent as a serious entertainment instrument in the Modern Music Scene. This is even further evidenced by the fact that, only a couple of builders even make 4 string banjos, and it is by special order. And most of the ones in existence have already been, or will be converted to 5 string. But I'm not telling anybody to not play a 4 string, or spend a couple of years learning to play one. I play a few songs on mine once or twice a year. I just accept reality.

 






 






Why respond if you aren't a 4 string banjo player? It's obvious you have a vendetta against the instrument. Maybe you were unable to play good tremolo? Maybe you didn't have a very good instrument? Maybe you never were around any of the great teachers like Mr Bechtel?



 



Who knows, but you are speaking out of place and out of turn, and for this, I think I will ignore any post that you have from now on because its not constructive to mine. 

 



I play guitar and 5 string banjo, and many other instruments. I own a teaching student and we develop competent musicians, many of them who play the 4 string banjo.



 



5 string open tuned banjo is a bore to me, as it is to most plectrum and tenor players who add it to their wheelhouse. 

 



I just tune mine in The original 5 string tuning with the 4th string tuned to C and it is more useful and not so limiting and uninspiring. 

 



I think you are best served going to another part of this forum as we actually like and embrace the 4 string rather than complain about how it beat us and we're scared of it.






I do play the 4 string but now very seldom. I do have a quality  banjo, a 1929 Epiphone Concert Recording, and a Vega before that, I did have a good teacher, he had a Masters Degree in Music and was 73 years old in 1967 when I took lessons from him from 1963-1967, he played professionally all during the 20's and 30's tenor banjo and guitar, I played tremolo with a flimsy pick single string, and melody chords of every shape all up the neck with various strumming techniques. But when the little bit of demand the 4 string did have in the early and mid 60's with Village Stompers, Peter and Gordon, Mamas and Pappas disappeared, and Bluegrass made came on the scene with a resurgence in the early 60's, it was all over for me with the 4 string banjo, when I saw what could be done on a 5 string, and the response it generated from people hearing. I stayed with it on and off throughout the years as circumstanced permitted. But always wished I had originally took the lessons on the 5 string instead of the 4 string, due to the fact the 4 string is kid's stuff compared to learning to play a 5 string, there is no comparison. It's like driving an Indy car vs. a factory stock Honda Accord.






You're kidding. 

 



5 string banjo is child's play compared to the plectrum. 

 



Anyone that can tap their foot can play a roll. 

 



We're not going to get anywhere because you're not living on the same planet as me. 

banjotrader - Posted - 12/23/2019:  18:35:05


Hahaha. All uses of your banjos locked in days gone by and you wonder why it’s dead for you. What is one even doing here if you are that person? Reminiscing, complaining, or waiting for a resurgence?

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