Banjo Hangout Logo
Banjo Hangout Logo

Premier Sponsors

213
Banjo Lovers Online


Discussion Forum

Want to hide these Google ads? Join the Players Union!

 All Forums
 Other Banjo-Related Topics
 Banjo Building, Setup, and Repair
 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Reglued neck verses unbroken neck .


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/339920

Wesley 38 - Posted - 02/14/2018:  16:36:51


Does a neck that has been broken and glued back together sound as good as a neck that has never been broken ???

p.s. I used gorrila glue.


Edited by - Wesley 38 on 02/15/2018 22:22:08

tdennis - Posted - 02/14/2018:  17:08:18


 



I've had several instruments of the same model, & of the same ilk w/ different types of neck breaks & repairs, & I 've never noticed a difference in voice, as long as they were skillfully repaired.



( I even have some awful, amateurishly repaired instruments that play & sound fine). 



 


Edited by - tdennis on 02/14/2018 17:11:18

RioStat - Posted - 02/14/2018:  18:11:08


A broken and well repaired neck probably loses more monetary value than tone, sound, or playability value.

Wesley 38 - Posted - 02/14/2018:  18:47:29


quote:Originally posted by RioStatA broken and well repaired neck probably loses more monetary value than tone, sound, or playability value.

Wesley 38 - Posted - 02/14/2018:  18:52:01


If you saw my pic the neck some how got broken during shipping. There were no marks on the case that would make you think that the banjo was damaged. It just gave way while in the case. Has anyone else heard of this happening ??? The banjo can be heard on my YouTube channel called Augustus Wayne .


Edited by - Wesley 38 on 02/14/2018 18:54:49

tdennis - Posted - 02/14/2018:  18:57:58


 



A fall from a certain height will break a banjo in different areas, just through "g forces" ,  even in a secure case or box. . Where was the break ?



 


Edited by - tdennis on 02/14/2018 19:01:32

Wesley 38 - Posted - 02/14/2018:  19:31:51


It was broken at the heel where one of the lag screws went into the neck . I have a picture posted of it .

link-o-sausages - Posted - 02/14/2018:  19:41:51


I make a 3 piece neck per say with a built up heel incorporating the dowel stick and a scarf joint to give the head stock a 5-7 degree angle. I based my design off classical guitar necks so you could compare it to a one piece neck that was broken and repaired at the heel and headstock.
They say a proper glue joint is stronger than the wood around it.
Either way the amount of energy being transferred from the neck shouldn't be noticeable if you were unaware of the break, placebo.

gtani7 - Posted - 02/14/2018:  21:39:56


I heard of a damaged neck recently where the cracks happened because the pot wasn't sufficiently supported in the case so the 2 neck supports in the case put a lot of pressure at 2 points on the neck. And then all it takes is the usual treatment from any of the usual shippers (dropping off conveyer belts, rushed loading/unloading of truck) and you have damage.



So it's really important to have a hardshell case that doesn't point load the neck.



To address your original question, most breaks are diagonal with a lot of surface area and titebond properly injected and clamped not too tight will be a good bond.  You have to be careful with vertical (perpendicular to grain), end grain to end grain breaks, which are rare


Edited by - gtani7 on 02/14/2018 21:42:41

Wesley 38 - Posted - 02/14/2018:  21:43:53


This is the original Deering hardshell case .

Winged Words - Posted - 02/14/2018:  22:12:23


It'll be fine if strongly repaired like this photo from Greg Galbreath who's been asked to tidy it up.


Edited by - Winged Words on 02/14/2018 22:14:07

davidppp - Posted - 02/14/2018:  22:20:06


I bought a long-neck GIbson really cheap because the tuning head had snapped off at the nut. After careful gluing (involving making a mold that allowed firm clamping), it sounded just fine. I wasn't good enough to hide the scar in the nitro finish. So I refinished the whole neck.

mike gregory - Posted - 02/14/2018:  23:17:59




Brought it from your page to HERE, just trying to be helpful.



OUCH!



That CAN be fixed.

pastorharry - Posted - 02/15/2018:  01:33:00


banjohangout.org/forum/attachm...ID=234380  She's ugly, but strong!! P.S. I take no responsibility , I think it was Willie Nelson's banjo wink


Edited by - pastorharry on 02/15/2018 01:37:53




Brett - Posted - 02/15/2018:  06:01:01


best one I ever saw was a Goya with the peghead jammed back on with massive amounts of JB Weld. the surprising part is it held.

pastorharry - Posted - 02/15/2018:  10:45:24


The old adage , "Once broke, twice as strong for the mending".



 

Wesley 38 - Posted - 02/15/2018:  22:18:01


The setup book I was referring to is "how to setup the best sounding banjo by Roger H Siminoff . Anyone read this manual ??? And any comments ???

gtani7 - Posted - 02/16/2018:  15:01:42


 



Siminoff's book si generally good info. As other threads have discussed, he advocates very tight heads, a lot of breakover angle, and a shim so end fingerboard and tension hoop make solid contact. So he's going for really bright, overtoney banjos with maximum cut. I think old threads consider this out of fashion



banjohangout.org/archive/242679



There's also omissions, like he says "don't shim neck yourself, let a pro do it" something to that effect. Shimming a neck properly isn't hard.



Sandberg's book is worth $15 incl. shipping used.





 



 



 



  as to your point above that it's the factory case, you can't assume that it's the right depth for your pot.  Some makers, I don't know about Deering, switched from domed resonators to flat back ones over the years, so a case the properly fits needs to take that into account.  Really, the case should support the neck evenly over a broad area, not at 2 sharp lines, especially if you're shipping or checking in with airline



 



 


Edited by - gtani7 on 02/16/2018 15:10:35

B0bIII - Posted - 02/17/2018:  07:00:01


Some guitarists believe a broken and re-glued headstock is a key ingredient for the proper tone of a gibson les paul.
I would use titebond or even white elmers instead of gorilla. keeping everything lined up during clamping will be the key to a successful repair. I know gorilla makes different types, but the stuff I see people trying to use most often expands as it dries and throws the joint out of alignment. Repairing it after that is much more difficult.

Wesley 38 - Posted - 02/17/2018:  07:53:25


They dressed up the heel and refinished it
But I am afraid it will break again !!!

Jonnycake White - Posted - 02/19/2018:  08:33:19


If it breaks again, it can be fixed again. This forum is great for advice - but it's better to ask first and repair after carefully considering the opinions you'll receive.

What exact type of Gorilla Glue did you use? They sell polyurethane, cyanoacrylate (super glue), and epoxy, and who knows what else.

RioStat - Posted - 02/19/2018:  13:22:54


quote:

Originally posted by Wesley 38

They dressed up the heel and refinished it

But I am afraid it will break again !!!






Unless you knock it over or drop the banjo it should never break again (!!!)

Wesley 38 - Posted - 02/19/2018:  14:13:27


Original Gorilla glue
. Is that a good one . It seems to me that it's pretty strong cause it's still holding .

steveh_2o - Posted - 02/19/2018:  15:03:58


I believe the original Gorilla glue tries to sort of swell up into a sort of foam when it dries. Probably less than ideal, but if you got a good tight joint and it might hold. You probably wont be able to clean that off very easily to try something else if it fails.



I used Gorilla wood glue on a few neck scarf joints and what-not. They have all held as far as I know, but sort of seeped a worrisome line of gunk at the joint after the first few months. Now I use Tightbond 2. I'm a fan.


Edited by - steveh_2o on 02/19/2018 15:08:12

mikehalloran - Posted - 02/19/2018:  15:42:28


Properly repaired, I don't see how it can have any effect on the tone.



Resale value takes a hit, always. Oh well. You can only repair or replace. No one has figured out how to un-break something.

Wesley 38 - Posted - 02/20/2018:  12:41:10


Yeah it said to moisten the wood and apply a thin layer of glue and clamp the pieces together. I used a pistol grip clamp . And it said it would foam so I wiped away as much as I could . I sent it back to the guy I got it from and he had it dressed and restained and clear coated .

The Old Timer - Posted - 02/20/2018:  14:52:42


Gorilla Glue is NOT recommended for musical instruments as far as I know. But if it worked for you, best wishes.

Banjos COMMONLY break at the heel even if no damage is shown on the case. It's a "torque" break from the case being tipped over on front, back or side (very typical of airline or freight haulers handling). The pot being so much heavier than the neck, it wants to keep "falling" longer than the neck does. Those nice metal lag bolts stuck into the neck act just like knives transferring that stopping energy through the wood grain.

Buddy of mine, who's here on the Hangout, opened his banjo case after flying to Nashville and everything looked perfectly fine. Couldn't get the banjo in tune! Tuned and tuned and tuned and tuned and was going nuts! Inspected the banjo and found the hairline crack through the heel. Dropped or spun by the airline! Standard repair is to glue the heel back together, with or without finish touch up. And on you go. I think it hurts your pride and your pocketbook more than the sound of the banjo, presuming nothing else got bent/broken too.

I once owned a nice Gibson that Gruhn informed me in advance of purchase had an invisible peghead repair crack. I looked and looked and could never find it, even with flash photography. That banjo sounded terrific. When I sold it I passed along the description. They buyer couldn't find it either.

On the other hand, I once tried to buy a Martin 1944 herringbone D28 that the peghead had broke off and been glued back together with TWINE wrapped around and around it and painted with epoxy -- a real "farmer's" repair, I thought, like a broken hoe handle or something. Guitar sounded fantastic, but it was ugly.

Banjosephus - Posted - 02/22/2018:  21:47:02


A broken neck is nothing to fret over. (Just kidding--see what I did there?)

But seriously, folks: The neck on my Bowtie has been broken, at the thinnest part--the headstock (don't ask), but repaired by the manufacturer--Gibson. The repair was totally undetectable, as is any change in sound/tone, were there any.
As for resale value, don't really care one way or the other as I don't plan to part with it.

The Bowtie seems to be rather susceptible to breaks at that point, judging from so many other's I've seen it happen to. Banjophile.com even has a pic history of one of his that his dog knocked over while on a stand and broke. He repaired it himself, I reckon, and with the same success as mine, from his pics.

Might want to check to see if your model is susceptible to breaking at that point, for whatever reason, due to construction, configuration, inappropriate materials, or whatever, and checking to see if someone has devised a sturdier, undetectable repair--only advise I could give.

Other than that--"play on".

tdennis - Posted - 02/22/2018:  22:14:51


I hate to break your heart , but if the foaming type of gorilla glue was used on this repair, that was the wrong adhesive. I've used this glue on common household repairs & found it to be nearly worthless.

monstertone - Posted - 02/23/2018:  14:00:07


The question that keeps going around in my mind is, if it arrived to you broken, why did you not just send it back? 

Hangout Network Help

View All Topics  |  View Categories

9.277344E-02