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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Don't Let Your Deal Go Down? Is it a trad. song?


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/296275

TomJoad - Posted - 12/18/2014:  11:17:06


Does anyone know if the song Don't Let Your Deal Go Down is a traditional work? Or is it copyrighted?


Old Hickory - Posted - 12/18/2014:  12:28:37


Under the current copyright law, music composed before 1923 has become public domain. Stuff from 1923 and after will start becoming public domain in 2018. 



It doesn't matter if a work is "traditional" or had a known composer.  If it's old enough, its copyright will have expired and the piece will be in the public domain.



As to "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down," this page says that a guy named Tyler Meeks said he learned "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down Blues"  from a guitarist named Charlie Blackstock in 1911.  If that's true, then the song is public domain. No copyright.



The song is generally associated with Charlie Poole.  But I don't know whether he claimed to have written it or just came up with own version of a song that had been around for decades by the time he recorded it.



 


Jim D - Posted - 12/18/2014:  12:31:18


From the mudcat site. Maybe this will help.:



From the Traditional Ballad Index:



Don't Let Your Deal Go Down



DESCRIPTION: Floating verses: "Been all around this whole round world... Anyplace I hang my hat/Feels like home to me"; "Left my little girl a'crying"; "Where did you get your high-top shoes" Chorus: "Don't let your deal go down/Till your last (g)old dollar is gone"

AUTHOR: unknown

EARLIEST DATE: 1925 (recording, Charlie Poole)

KEYWORDS: gambling nonballad floatingverses

FOUND IN: US(SE)

REFERENCES (6 citations):

BrownIII 301, "High-Topped Shoes" (2 texts, both mixed; "A" is mostly "Pretty Little Foot" with verses from "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down" while "B" is a hash of "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down," ""More Pretty Girls Than One," "In the Pines," and others)

Cohen/Seeger/Wood, pp. 182-183, "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down" (1 text, 1 tune)

Rorrer, p. 70, "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down Blues" (1 text)

Darling-NAS, p. 285, "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down" (1 text)

Silber-FSWB, p. 144, "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down" (1 text)

DT, DEALDOWN*


RECORDINGS:

Fiddlin' John Carson, "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down" (OKeh 45096, 1927)

Lake Howard, "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down" (Perfect 13151, 1935)

Dick Justice, "Old Black Dog" (Brunswick 395, c. 1929)

Kessinger Brothers, "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down" (Brunswick 411, c. 1930)

New Lost City Ramblers, "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down" (on NLCR01, NLCRCD1) (NLCR12)

W. Lee O'Daniel & the Light Crust Doughboys, "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down" (Vocalion 03471, 1937)

Charlie Poole and the North Carolina Ramblers, "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down Blues" (Columbia 15038-D, 1925; on CPoole01, CPoole05); (Columbia 15184-D, 1927) 

Riley Puckett, "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down" (Columbia 15448-D, 1929) (Bluebird B-6067, 1935)

Ernest V. Stoneman, "Don't Let Your Deal Go Down" (OKeh 45054, 1926)

Bob Wills & his Texas Playboys, "Don't Let the Deal Go Down" (Vocalion 05282, 1939; Columbia 37739, 1947)

CROSS-REFERENCES:

cf. "In the Pines" (words)

ALTERNATE TITLES:

Last Gold Dollar

High Top Shoes

Notes: The phrase "let your deal go down" refers to the Georgia Skin Game, a card game popular among gamblers in the first half of the 20th century. - PJS

File: CSW182


Jim D - Posted - 12/18/2014:  12:34:55


quote:

Originally posted by Old Hickory

The song is generally associated with Charlie Poole.  But I don't know whether he claimed to have written it or just came up with own version of a song that had been around for decades by the time he recorded it.



Don't Let Your Deal Go Down




by Lyle Lofgren



(Originally published: Inside Bluegrass, December 1999)



According to Kinney Rorrer's excellent book, Rambling Blues -- The Life and Songs of Charlie Poole (available from Rorrer at 913 Vicar Road, Danville VA 24540), another North Carolina musician, having learned the song from a local black guitarist in 1911, taught the words to Poole, who already knew the tune. 



Edited by - Jim D on 12/18/2014 12:36:03

janolov - Posted - 12/18/2014:  12:45:30


I think there are two melodies to Don't Let Your Deal Go Down. The Poole version seems to be the best known, but Ken Perlman presents another version in his book Clawhammer Style Banjo. The lyrics is different but the chorus lyrics is very similar in both versions.


TomJoad - Posted - 12/19/2014:  04:49:39


Many thanks for the responses. Yes, after a web search, I also read the bit about Poole learning it from a local black guitarists.



Looks like it will be OK to upload a recording I did of the song.



 


rudy - Posted - 12/19/2014:  06:06:30


quote:

Originally posted by TomJoad

Many thanks for the responses. Yes, after a web search, I also read the bit about Poole learning it from a local black guitarists.




Looks like it will be OK to upload a recording I did of the song. 







Upload here to the Hangout?



Last thing I knew Eric pays a fee to cover the legalities of royalty issue for any tunes / songs uploaded to BHO.  Most material is covered, with only a few rare exceptions.  I believe the details are explained on the upload page.


Old Hickory - Posted - 12/19/2014:  06:30:39


quote:

Originally posted by TomJoad

Many thanks for the responses. Yes, after a web search, I also read the bit about Poole learning it from a local black guitarists.




Looks like it will be OK to upload a recording I did of the song.







If you mean uploading to the Hangout, you can do that with copyrighted material anyway.



Here's the Copyright Notice on the music upload page:



Copyright Notice:

You are allowed to post recordings of yourself performing:

- public-domain (non-copyrighted) songs

- original songs written by yourself

- songs written by someone else and licensed through ASCAPBMI, or SESAC


TomJoad - Posted - 12/19/2014:  14:55:27


Thanks for the clarification on copyrighted tunes.



I have uploaded it here:



banjohangout.org/myhangout/mus...?id=22760



Edited by - TomJoad on 12/19/2014 14:57:40

hstrawn - Posted - 12/20/2014:  05:58:10


quote:

Originally posted by Old Hickory

Under the current copyright law, music composed before 1923 has become public domain. Stuff from 1923 and after will start becoming public domain in 2018. 




It doesn't matter if a work is "traditional" or had a known composer.  If it's old enough, its copyright will have expired and the piece will be in the public domain.


 




My understanding is that the traditional tune 'Midnight on the Water' (c. 1900?) has been re-copyrighted and is no longer in the public domain. How's this work? Can I buy a collection of traditional public domain tunes, copyright them and get rich?  indecision


banjo_brad - Posted - 12/20/2014:  12:41:19


Hugh, from what I understand from some research several years ago, if you can provide a hard-copy source pre-dating the copyright cutoff date, and show that your version is based on that source, you are free to do what you want with your version.  But, I could use the same source and not owe you or any of the agencies anything.



You might check out the info on the Public Domain Information webpage.



Edited by - banjo_brad on 12/20/2014 12:44:30

rudy - Posted - 12/20/2014:  16:04:33


quote:

Originally posted by hstrawn

quote:


Originally posted by Old Hickory

Under the current copyright law, music composed before 1923 has become public domain. Stuff from 1923 and after will start becoming public domain in 2018. 




It doesn't matter if a work is "traditional" or had a known composer.  If it's old enough, its copyright will have expired and the piece will be in the public domain.


 





My understanding is that the traditional tune 'Midnight on the Water' (c. 1900?) has been re-copyrighted and is no longer in the public domain. How's this work? Can I buy a collection of traditional public domain tunes, copyright them and get rich?  indecision







The arrangement of a traditional (public domain) song can also be copyrighted.  In those cases you can play your own arrangement, but you can't record and distribute a version of yourself playing a copyrighted arrangement.  It does get tricky, but if you really want to know you can check with a licensing agency such as Harry Fox. 


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