MoTappin - Posted - 04/19/2013:  10:35:14

Hi all,

My son is 8, almost 9, and has been playing banjo for about 10 months now.  He knows several songs (Foggy Mtn, Cripple Creek, Buffalo Gals, Red River Valley, a few others) and is doing well with it...just really trying to get faster now.  His teacher puts him at an intermediate level, but like I said, working on speed.  I absolutely love hearing and watching him play.  Makes a happy mom.

Right now he has one of those Epiphone Korean jo's...something inexpensive to make sure it was gonna stick before spending more.  Well, it's definitely sticking and his teacher thinks he could be a future pro.  His current instrument seems to be holding him back now, so we want to get him a new one, probably in the $700 range or so.  We ideally want him to be able to play on it for a while, until he's old enough to have a job and buy his own upgrade when he's ready.  :)

We have been looking at the Deering Goodtime series, the Goodtime 2 or 2 Classic in particular.  Have also looked at maybe an RK-35 or Gold Tone BG-150F or CC 100-R+.  The Gold Tone for example do come with more bells and whistles / features on them, which is nice, but it obviously makes them heavier by 2-3 lbs over the Deering (over 8 pounds as opposed to around 6).   My boy is 8 and a little small for his age, so I don't want to overburden him with a banjo that's too heavy.  His banjo now has no resonator, but I would like to get him one that does.  He's learning Scruggs picking style.

He does practice sitting down, so most of that extra weight will be in his lap and not on his arm/shoulder during practice.  But what would you guys do?  Go for the extra features (the Gold Tones are actually a little cheaper, and have a lifetime warranty as opposed to 6 yrs), or go with the lighter, 100% American Deering?  I like that everything on the Deering is USA-made, but I won't let that stop me from the better value of the Gold Tone, if it's not to heavy and will be a good instrument for him for several years.

Any advice?  Thanks in advance!  I have learned a lot of stuff on here just by lurking. :)  Still getting up to speed on some of the terminology. :)

Edited by - MoTappin on 04/19/2013 10:40:57

RedStar - Posted - 04/19/2013:  10:42:39

Hi & welcome!

In your price range, you will find a nice quality instrument for your son. I don't have either that I'm going to recommend, but the RK35/36 is touted as the best bang for the buck, and the Deering's are also rated excellent.

My belief is that either of those 2 will suit his needs for the long haul.

They both can be had in the $500 range. I just saw an RK36 sell for $550 about a half hour ago on an auction listing. I would have snapped it up for that price, but was too late. Be sure to check the BHO classifieds here first!

Better advice from more knowledgable folks coming..

Good Luck

Mark 

Edited by - RedStar on 04/19/2013 10:44:27

Jim D - Posted - 04/19/2013:  10:57:58

Due to weight considerations (metal tone rings ARE heavy!), you might also add the RK-25R (wooden tone ring with a resonator) to you "look at" list. It has a good sound level and is much lighter than the RK-35.



You can find some reviews here on the Hangout listed under Recording King Rk-25 Resonator..



Jim

Edited by - Jim D on 04/19/2013 11:00:48

loukiii - Posted - 04/19/2013:  11:30:52

What about a Helix. Those look like interesting banjos. I would like to try one myself if I ever see on in person.

Texaspaul - Posted - 04/19/2013:  12:06:06

The Deering Goodime 2 and Goodtime 2 special are very nice modestly priced banjo that are light. Resonator banjos. The Special models of the Goodtime have a metal tone hoop with a bit more ringing sound. Than the standard Goodtime. These get good reviews and many great banjo players have one for practice or travel because of playability, sound and overall reliability. I like mine. I have a Recording King with some upgrades and It is heavy, I practice and lounge around with.

MoTappin - Posted - 04/19/2013:  12:31:18

So, is the only difference between the Goodtime Special and Goodtime 2 Special the resonator? I'm seeing some eBay listings for Goodtime Special with Resonator...isn't that a Goodtime 2 Special?

I know a lot of people aren't too keen on the blond maple look, but from the pictures it looks pretty nice. Hadn't really been considering the special, but it can be had for about the same money as the Goodtime 2 Classic. Banjohut has a Goodtime 2 Special package with the bag, tuner, book/CD, picks, free shipping for $749. They've got the same basic package on the Goodtime 2 Classic for $709 but it's not in stock.

Still probably leaning Deering...torn between 2 Special or 2 Classic unless someone can change my mind. 2 Classic is a couple pounds lighter, but no ring.

Texaspaul - Posted - 04/19/2013:  12:52:13

quote:

---

Originally posted by Texaspaul

 

No they make the Special models in both open back and resonator. Usually the 2 means a resonator. A Goodtime 2 Midnight Special recently sold here on the BHO (Banjo Hang Out) for $600 was basically new. It had a black finish, planetary tuners, capo spike added came from Deering installed and tone hoop. I really wanted that one myself.

---

Texaspaul - Posted - 04/19/2013:  13:11:15

quote:

---

Originally posted by MoTappin

 

So, is the only difference between the Goodtime Special and Goodtime 2 Special the resonator? I'm seeing some eBay listings for Goodtime Special with Resonator...isn't that a Goodtime 2 Special?



I know a lot of people aren't too keen on the blond maple look, but from the pictures it looks pretty nice. Hadn't really been considering the special, but it can be had for about the same money as the Goodtime 2 Classic. Banjohut has a Goodtime 2 Special package with the bag, tuner, book/CD, picks, free shipping for $749. They've got the same basic package on the Goodtime 2 Classic for $709 but it's not in stock.

 

You might ask about their American Series Mastercraft (they had Deering make them and they have some upgraded features) .  The main differences in the Classic and standard are RR capo spikes and the classic also has a dark brown stain

 

Still probably leaning Deering...torn between 2 Special or 2 Classic unless someone can change my mind. 2 Classic is a couple pounds lighter, but no ring.

---

Texaspaul - Posted - 04/19/2013:  13:25:57

Just checked and the Banjohut is sold out of the American Classic with resonator. I like my blond Goodtime. Just for kicks check out Elderly Music they have a Zombie Goodtime with blood red accents just the kind of thing a young man might think cool.

MoTappin - Posted - 04/19/2013:  13:41:11

LOL...I have seen those zombie models. I don't think I could take that. Not sure about my boy either. He's a sensitive kid...which is why he picked banjo? :)

Wavering between the Goodtime 2 or the Goodtime 2 Classic. Trying to decide if the Classic is worth the extra $160. I do like the upgraded tuners though, and you never know when the spikes could come in handy. They are out of stock, but I called and Leroy said it would probably be 2-3 weeks before they get more. That's not a problem since we'd likely wait to give it to my son until his birthday in July, unless we decide we just can't wait. :)

Thanks for the advice! I will continue to look but those are kinda the top two right now. Good to know the American Classics are Deering-made though. I thought I saw a weight of 14 lbs somewhere on those, but now I can't find it. If that's true it would be way too heavy for my little dude.

kmwaters - Posted - 04/19/2013:  13:46:51

You're on the right track with Goodtime 2 models. While some of the others may also be an upgrade, I don't believe you are getting the "final" banjo. So the resale value becomes important and Goodtime is excellent on the resale end of things. Deering has done a masterful (not masterTONE!!) job markteing the Goodtime. Extremely popular for the lower to mid range market. But your son sounds destined for a top of the line Deering, Huber, Gibson or Stelling or an equivalent. Don't throw away that banjo jar. Feed it.

mtnpckr - Posted - 04/19/2013:  13:50:08

I have owned a few banjos, including the Goodtime 2 , a Gold Tone OB250 and my current a RK R25. I switched from the Gold Tone to the RK R25 because of the weight difference. I don't believe the Goodtime2 is up to jamming or performance use other than clawhammer. The RK R25 is surprisingly good and loud and very playable and well within your stated budget.

I would question whether he is intermediate level yet, a few songs and still not up to speed is beginner level, but thats just my opinion. Encourage him as much as possible but also KEEP him in school (LOL) - banjo players rarely make  living!

MoTappin - Posted - 04/19/2013:  13:56:17

Thanks for pointing out the resale. And nope, it's definitely not the final banjo. We just need it to serve him well and not hold him back for probably (ideally, anyway)  8-10 years depending on how much he/we can put in the banjo fund in the meantime. I know he will progress even faster with a better jo, so I look forward to getting him something nice, but we don't need to overdo it at this point either. He's 8 for pete's sake. :)

Edited by - MoTappin on 04/19/2013 14:01:33

MoTappin - Posted - 04/19/2013:  14:03:18

Haha...yeah he's definitely staying in school. :) Thanks for the input!

Big I - Posted - 04/19/2013:  14:11:06

Another vote for the RK-25. It is a great banjo that sounds really good. I think you could add a tone ring later when he is older if you wanted. Its light and plays easy. I've owned a good time 2, with resonator,  and it is a great banjo also. But if I had to choose between the two, I would get the RK-25.

BoneDigger - Posted - 04/19/2013:  14:23:22

I would vote for the Goodtime 2 or RK25. I just upgraded to a RK35 from a Goodtime 2 ONLY because I am back to playing in jams and needed the projection. The Goodtime 2 is a great banjo and plenty loud for just a couple of people jamming at the house. It also is very playable and has great tone.

Since I now own an RK35 I know the quality would likely be good on the RK25.

Also check out the Helix banjos. Light, good projection, and Helix is a good guy to deal with.

Todd

wizofos - Posted - 04/19/2013:  14:28:52

Have to agree with loukii on the Helix. Here is one that I found, sounds like it is pretty new and is in your price range. I played one similar to this recently and WOW, now I want one.

banjobuyer.com/banjo/34457

I think you would be getting a lot more than a Goodtime for what looks like the same or less money. He will build you one for a few bucks more check out his web site.

helixbanjos.com/home.php

And almost close enough for a road trip with your son to pick it up.

If you want to know more about this specific instrument contact Helix (Larry Hill) on here, he is a very nice guy to deal with.

MoTappin - Posted - 04/19/2013:  16:11:42

Thanks guys! I just talked to my son's teacher and he really likes the RKs, even said he'd get one over the Goodtime series (but that the high end Deerings are really really good). SO we will take a good look at the RKs. He encouraged me to get one with a resonator and tone ring.

maxclock - Posted - 04/19/2013:  16:31:31

The Goodtime Special adds a steel tone ring, which adds a slight amount of weight but a significant amount of volume. The Goodtime tone ring is not like the cast rings on heavier instruments. It certainly would be an instrument to meet current needs and would serve him well for several years. One just sold here for $500, others do come for sale, if used is of interest. Also, it will be easy to sell, several years from now, when he is big enough to get a "big boy" banjo!

MoTappin - Posted - 04/19/2013:  16:46:08

Thanks! Narrowing things down and Goodtime Special or 2 Special is on the list for sure.

Big I - Posted - 04/19/2013:  17:09:51

Before you get one with a tone ring I would let your son hold it to see if its too heavy. The RK-25 sounds great even though it does not have a tone ring and its pretty light. If he can handle the weight then the RK-35 is an awesome banjo. It can compete with the high end banjos.

MildBill - Posted - 04/19/2013:  17:34:43

You can check out Recording Kings at The Acoustic Musician on 9400 S and 700 E.  Mike is a really nice guy.  I'm not sure what he has in stock right now, but he is a RK dealer.

MoTappin - Posted - 04/19/2013:  18:02:17

Thanks MildBill. I actually sent them an email earlier today. They have some RKs on their website but not the R35, so I was asking if they could get any and what their price would be. I have been in there before...might stop in tomorrow and let him pick on a few to see what he likes.

According to Amazon, the RK R-35 is 7.5 lbs.  Not bad weight wise if that's accurate.

Edited by - MoTappin on 04/19/2013 18:06:10

mikehalloran - Posted - 04/19/2013:  18:09:27

>According to Amazon, the RK R-35 is 7.5 lbs.  Not bad weight wise if that's accurate<

Shipping weight with good case is 24lb 2oz.

RedStar - Posted - 04/19/2013:  18:18:44

The RK-35 weighs in at 12 lbs. The RK-25 is just under 9 lbs or so.

Mark

edit:typo

Edited by - RedStar on 04/19/2013 18:20:31

MoTappin - Posted - 04/19/2013:  18:23:44

Thanks for the clarification, RedStar. 7.5 seemed too light for that banjo. Anyone played an RK R20? Great price, under $400 at a local place, but I want good quality and I believe you usually get what you pay for. The low price scares me a little.

dmiller - Posted - 04/19/2013:  18:48:48

Those are some good suggestions for you, mentioned above.  I (personally) would go with Helix over the others.  It has no resonator, but is loud enough to be heard in a jam session with several other instruments.  Well crafted and solidly made here in the U.S.A.  Lightweight enough that your 8 year old could easily handle it without it being "burdensome", and it's a banjo that'll last your son well into his "path of learning banjo" without having to "upgrade" for a long time.

There is a Helix Midnight Zephyr for sale here in the classifieds.  The asking price is $500, which is about half of what the Midnight Zephyr originally sells for.  I have NO affiliation with either the sale, or the seller.  You might do yourself a favor, and check out the ad.  Whatever banjo you choose, good luck and happy picking to your son!  

Here's the ad in the classifieds - - - > >  banjohangout.org/classified/34457

dmiller - Posted - 04/19/2013:  18:50:10

P.S. - -  I see that you are in Utah.  Helix is made in Arizona.

Edited by - dmiller on 04/19/2013 18:54:24

DeanT - Posted - 04/19/2013:  18:51:09

He already has one beginner banjo. He doesn't need another one. Get him a Helix, or a good used Deering Sierra, or this RK-80  and he'll be set up from now into adulthood and good to go when he gets into jams and joins his first band.

Edited by - DeanT on 04/19/2013 18:52:34

dmiller - Posted - 04/19/2013:  18:52:34

Dean - - since you have a Helix, what would you think about the qualities it has for an 8 year old?  I'm convinced the Helix is the better banjo when compared to the Goodtime or the cheaper RK's, but that's just me!  

Edited by - dmiller on 04/19/2013 18:53:58

DeanT - Posted - 04/19/2013:  19:00:55

I don't have my Helix anymore. It's is now owned by our old bass bass player and good friend of mine, who gigs with it and uses it in his one man band show. Personally (and especially after watching the Sleepy man Banjo boys), I'm not a fan of giving a kid something sub par, or entry level, just because he's a kid. Helix makes full sized adult level banjos, that would work awesome for an 8 year old. I wouldn't consider a Goodtime (and I used to gig with one) or the RK-25 woody. Give the boy and adult banjo, and let him grow into it.   

Edited by - DeanT on 04/19/2013 19:03:16

MoTappin - Posted - 04/19/2013:  19:07:05

So, what does Johnny Mizzone play, just out of curiosity.

dmiller - Posted - 04/19/2013:  19:14:29

A Gibson Mastertone.  A good banjo, but heavy.

(edited to add - - -) expensive too.

Edited by - dmiller on 04/19/2013 19:15:45

DeanT - Posted - 04/19/2013:  19:18:15

Just going off this photo, it look like a Gibson ESS

Big I - Posted - 04/19/2013:  19:20:09

I would not recommend the RK-20. It is way below the RK-25. I cant comment on the Helix banjos as Ive never played one. I think you said you wanted a resonator banjo. Does he make ones with a resonator.

MoTappin - Posted - 04/19/2013:  19:23:20

That kid is so cute. What a talent. Watching him was what got my son first interested in banjo. Yes, I'd prefer resonator. The Helix are cool too though. Big I just confirmed my initial thoughts on the RK-20. Won't go near it.

dmiller - Posted - 04/19/2013:  19:26:33

Yup - - - Helix makes them with resonators also.  All the reports I've read up on (or heard from sound clips) about the lack of a resonator are 100% unanimous that folks (pickers and audience alike) can't believe the sound and volume they are hearing out of a Helix "no resonator" banjo.  Makes me wonder what the ones with resonators on them sound like?   

Big I - Posted - 04/19/2013:  19:32:25

banjohangout.org/archive/236647

Here is a thread on banjo comparisons. Go down to Jim Panky and here him playing a RK-35. Its sounds incredible. Its a full blown pro grade bluegrass banjo. Also search the other brand people have  suggested and see what you think.

RedStar - Posted - 04/19/2013:  19:37:51

Jonny Mizzone also plays a Huber VRB-75

Mark

MoTappin - Posted - 04/19/2013:  19:43:05

I dream of my son owning a Huber one day.

Man, banjo peeps are friendly and helpful. Awesome!

MoTappin - Posted - 04/19/2013:  19:44:59

I really like the RK35. But I worry about the weight. Should I not? I mean, Johnny there isn't much bigger than my kid.

RedStar - Posted - 04/19/2013:  20:05:03

quote:

---

Originally posted by MoTappin

 

I really like the RK35. But I worry about the weight. Should I not? I mean, Johnny there isn't much bigger than my kid.

---

Heres a video of Jonny Mizzone 2 1/2 years ago (age 8) with his Gibson:

youtube.com/watch?v=r5zw0LjWuO0

Mark

dmiller - Posted - 04/19/2013:  20:17:58

quote:

---

Originally posted by MoTappin

 

I really like the RK35. But I worry about the weight. Should I not? I mean, Johnny there isn't much bigger than my kid.

---

For a young man that small. I would definitely take the weight into consideration.  Perhaps he can handle it, and perhaps not.  Since you're the mother, you're in the best position to assess the situation whereas we (typing our myriad of suggestions) can only speculate at best.  You would be in the best position to know what your son can (and can't) handle.

In my opinion - - a  better full sized lighter weight banjo would help him progress faster, but that's just my opinion.  Dean was right on, about getting a good full size banjo and letting your son grow into it.  If weight would be a problem or a concern, then the better sounding banjo (with the lighter weight) would be the route to take.  Again - - that's your call to make.  The Helix banjos weigh much less than others out there for sale (these days) without compromising on tone or volume of sound (without a resonator).

Even though the banjo I suggested in the earlier post is a used one, I'd (if I were you and thinking of it as an option) send a message to Larry and ask him any and all questions you might have about that particular banjo, or his banjos in particular (weight/ etc., etc., etc.)

You can send him a message through the hangout here - - - - - > > >

banjohangout.org/my/Helix#

Again - -  Good luck!

 

Edited by - dmiller on 04/19/2013 20:26:54

banjo5string - Posted - 04/19/2013:  21:32:29

Looks like Jonny Mizzone has recently joined the Deering family:

blog.deeringbanjos.com/the-sle...-artists/

MildBill - Posted - 04/20/2013:  07:38:25

This RK82 on KSL with extras might be worth looking at.  He is asking 1000, but it has been up for sale for a couple of months so he may be willing to deal.  ksl.com/index.php?nid=218&...;ad_cid=4.   If he had only posted it 2 weeks earlier, I would have bought it

Edited by - MildBill on 04/20/2013 07:39:49

MoTappin - Posted - 04/20/2013:  11:03:54

I will check that out! Think I saw it yesterday but blew by it because of the price. I'll take a look and see. Thanks!

MoTappin - Posted - 04/20/2013:  11:15:19

Anybody have thoughts on the GT CC-100R+? Seems to have the necessary features. No flange though...is that a problem? Could be had for $600.

Editing to add it's only 6.6 lbs

Edited by - MoTappin on 04/20/2013 11:16:49

DeanT - Posted - 04/20/2013:  14:06:25

I've owned a CC100R and its another good entry level beginner banjo, but again, your boy will grow out of it real quick if he takes to the banjo and gets in with the local bluegrass jamming crowd.

john m - Posted - 04/21/2013:  12:32:57

The following advice is not based on the fact that I have a RK-R25 for sale..really!

I have owned a Goodtime, Goodtime II, Goodtime Special &  RK-R25. Without question I prefer the R25. I sounds simply amazing & weighs 3 lbs less...it's an awesome sounding banjo. To make it even more versatile, it is built with a two piece flange, so it can be played as an open back...reducing the weight even more. New or used I think the Recording King RK series are one of the better values on the market.