Mirek Patek - Posted - 02/24/2013:  07:50:47

Edit: The subject of "how to play montunos on the banjo" starts in fact by Jocko MacNelly's post from 3/22/2013.

Go down to banjohangout.org/topic/256977/#3277132

As a sidetrack of my T-I crossover thread at banjohangout.org/topic/241661/2 here are three tabs of middle-lead three-finger rolls where middle finger picks the clave rhythm. Left hand holds some up-the-neck doublestop (here C7), in order to get the highest note at the 1st string. The tabs should be played as the loops.

3:2 Son clave
 C7
|8-----8-----8--|----8---8------|
|--5-----5-----5|--5-------5---5|
|---------------|---------------|
|---------------|---------------|
|----0-----0----|0-----0-----0--|
 |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|
 M I T M I T M I T I M T M I T I


3:2 Rumba clave
 C7
|8-----8-------8|----8---8------|
|--5-----5---5--|--5-------5---5|
|---------------|---------------|
|---------------|---------------|
|----0-----0----|0-----0-----0--|
 |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|
 M I T M I T I M T I M T M I T I


Buggle Call Rag Scruggs clave
 C7
|8-----8-------8|--8-----8------|
|--5-----5---5--|----5-----5---5|
|---------------|---------------|
|---------------|---------------|
|----0-----0----|0-----0-----0--|
 |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|
 M I T M I T I M T M I T M I T I

Here are links to previous BHO discussions about clave rhythm:

banjohangout.org/archive/79128

banjohangout.org/archive/213418 (the enclosed link to Banjo Sessions is dead, the correct one is now mirekpatek.com/melbay/BanjoSes...Patek.pdf )

Edited by - Mirek Patek on 04/29/2013 06:20:48

kmwaters - Posted - 02/24/2013:  08:00:15

Good stuff - thanks

Mirek Patek - Posted - 02/24/2013:  08:05:44

Here are more forward-roll oriented versions.

3:2 Son clave
 C7
|8-----8-----8--|----8---8------|
|----5-----5---5|--5-------5---5|
|---------------|---------------|
|---------------|---------------|
|--0-----0------|0-----0-----0--|
 |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|
 M T I M T I M I T I M T M I T I


3:2 Rumba clave
 C7
|8-----8-------8|----8---8------|
|----5---5---5--|--5-------5---5|
|---------------|---------------|
|---------------|---------------|
|--0-------0----|0-----0-----0--|
 |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|
 M T I M I T I M T I M T M I T I


Buggle Call Rag Scruggs clave
 C7
|8-----8-------8|--8-----8------|
|----5---5---5--|------5---5---5|
|---------------|---------------|
|---------------|---------------|
|--0-------0----|0---0-------0--|
 |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|
 M T I M I T I M T M T I M I T I

RyanHerr - Posted - 02/24/2013:  17:04:59

Here are some examples of the types of clave patterns I play.

3-2 Clave

|M-----M-----M--|----M---M------|
|I-----I-----I--|----I---I------|
|---------------|---------------|
|T---T---T---T--|T---T---T---T--|
|---------------|---------------|
 |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|


2-3 Clave adapted from New Orleans drummer Stanton Moore's book Take It To The Street

|----M-----M----|M-----M-----M--|
|----I-----I----|I-----I-----I--|
|---------------|---------------|
|T-------T------|T-------T---T--|
|----T-------T--|----T----------|
 |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|

RyanHerr - Posted - 02/25/2013:  05:19:20

Funny, I forgot about the old archived Banjo Hangout thread you linked to. I guess I didn't need to re-share these same patterns, whoops! :-)

Mirek Patek - Posted - 02/25/2013:  09:58:18

By the way, look what a small but significant difference is between the syncopation of [half-time] forward roll TIMTIMTI (if we consider T and M as the clicks) and the 3:2 Son Clave.

[Half-time] forward roll syncopation

|0-------0---0-------0---0------|
 |___|___|___|   |___|___|___|
 T   I   M   T   I   M   T   I

3:2 Son Clave

|0-----0-----0--|----0---0------|
 |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|

RyanHerr - Posted - 02/25/2013:  17:09:40

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mirek Patek

(if we consider T and M as the clicks)

---

I don't think that's a safe assumption to make. The "clicks" (meaning, the emphasized beats / the notes from the stream that are perceived as jumping out to the foreground) can be played thumb and/or index and/or middle, it just depends on the musical sound of it. Melody versus drone, loud vs soft, swung vs straight, hammer/slide/pulloff vs not, changing vs staying the same…



With Earl Scruggs, it’s usually the melody notes that are the emphasized beats. Down-the-neck, these are typically on strings 2-4 and played with the thumb or index, depending on where you’re at in the roll. Down-the-neck, the middle finger is usually (but not always) playing the first string as a drone, so not an emphasized beat.



With Scruggs above the 5th fret, the situation is kind of reversed. The melody is most likely on the first string and therefore the middle is most likely playing an emphasized beat. The thumb is most often on the fifth string and therefore playing a drone fill note.



Melody is not the only factor though. For example, consider the “In the Mood” lick. It’s up the neck, but it’s more of a riff than a melody, and the thumb is on the 3rd string rather than the 1st. So, for the purposes of your analysis, is the middle considered the “click”, or the thumb, or both? I would argue that it’s the middle only, during the TIM forward roll - due to the bounce and especially to the use of dynamics (those 1st string notes are just attacked more loudly in that riff).



Thoughts?

Mirek Patek - Posted - 02/25/2013:  23:56:44

I didn't mean to imply anything concerning the Scruggs style picking.

I just knocked on the table these two rhythms and observed that the second note in 3:2 son clave is anticipated versus the second note in the former rhythm.

Edited by - Mirek Patek on 02/25/2013 23:57:31

steve davis - Posted - 02/27/2013:  20:06:10

Mexicali Rose is a good outlet for these.

Mirek Patek - Posted - 03/01/2013:  01:32:20

Here are picking patterns for thumb-lead claves in case 5th string is not used.
Thumb plays the third or the fourth string. Repeat the two-measure loops.

3:2 son clave

|----M-----M----|M-----M-----M--|
|--I-----I-----I|--I-------I---I|
|T-----T-----T--|----T---T------|
|---------------|---------------|
|---------------|---------------|
 |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|


3:2 rumba clave

|----M-----M----|--M---M-----M--|
|--I-----I---I--|I---------I---I|
|T-----T-------T|----T---T------|
|---------------|---------------|
|---------------|---------------|
 |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|


Buggle Call Rag Scruggs clave

|----M-----M----|M-----M-----M--|
|--I-----I---I--|----I-----I---I|
|T-----T-------T|--T-----T------|
|---------------|---------------|
|---------------|---------------|
 |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|

Mirek Patek - Posted - 03/01/2013:  04:19:10

It is evident that the above mentioned picking patterns for three claves consist of building blocks "2"=TM, "3"=TIM, and "4"=TIMI.

Son clave = 33424

Rumba clave = 34324

BCR clave = 34234.

Note that these three sequences (and their rotations) are the only possible sequences without the segment of "44" [two subsequent half notes].



Speaking about their rotations - one can imagine not only 5, but 16 different rotations for each pattern (as the rotations need not start with T only), but let's limit the exploration first to the rotations that end with the building block of "4", as do the original ones. We get the following rhythms (I see them as the grooves).

 

(Son clave = 33424)
Shifted son clave = 24334

|--M-----M------|M-----M-----M--|
|------I---I---I|----I-----I---I|
|T---T-------T--|--T-----T------|
|---------------|---------------|
|---------------|---------------|
 |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|


(Rumba clave = 34324)
Shifted rumba clave = 32434

|----M---M-----M|------M-----M--|
|--I---------I--|I---I-----I---I|
|T-----T---T----|--T-----T------|
|---------------|---------------|
|---------------|---------------|
 |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|


(BCR clave = 34234)
Shifted BCR clave = 23434

|--M-----M-----M|------M-----M--|
|------I-----I--|I---I-----I---I|
|T---T-----T----|--T-----T------|
|---------------|---------------|
|---------------|---------------|
 |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|

Jocko MacNelly - Posted - 03/22/2013:  08:58:37

Yeah Mirek! I've always thought montunos would sound great on banjo, if we could just get an Afro-Cuban group to give it a try...

Mirek Patek - Posted - 03/23/2013:  06:35:24

Jocko, your keyword (montunos) opened whole new world for me - thanks!

One may start e.g. with
C down the neck, root on the 2nd string:

  i   r     m   i   r       m   i i   r     m   i   r       m   i
d|----2----------|--2------------|----2----------|--2------------|
B|1-------------1|--------------1|1-------------1|--------------1|
G|------0---2----|------0---2----|------0---2----|------0---2----|
D|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
g|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
  |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|
  T   T I   I   I   I   I   I   I T   T I   I   I   I   I   I   I

Going up two frets this gives
D in D-position, root on the 2nd string:

  m   L i   r   m   L   i   r   m m   L i   r   m   L   i   r   m
d|----4----------|--4------------|----4----------|--4------------|
B|3-------------3|--------------3|3-------------3|--------------3|
G|------2---4----|------2---4----|------2---4----|------2---4----|
D|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
g|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
  |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|
  T   T I   I   I   I   I   I   I T   T I   I   I   I   I   I   I

Another left hand shape would be
C in barre position, root on the 3rd string

  i   L i   m   i   L   i   m   i i   L i   m   i   L   i   m   i
d|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
B|----5----------|--5------------|----5----------|--5------------|
G|5-------------5|--------------5|5-------------5|--------------5|
D|------5---7----|------5---7----|------5---7----|------5---7----|
g|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
  |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|
  T   T I   I   I   I   I   I   I T   T I   I   I   I   I   I   I

Yes, I cross the right index finger two strings under the thumb.
This way my thumb picks the Down's and index finger picks the Up's.

RyanHerr - Posted - 03/23/2013:  07:11:11

Mirek, I like it! How about this as another option (the fill notes on the 5th string help me keep the beat)

d|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
B|----5----------|--5------------|----5----------|--5------------|
G|5-------------5|--------------5|5-------------5|--------------5|
D|------5---7----|------5---7----|------5---7----|------5---7----|
g|--------0---0--|0---0---0---0--|--------0---0--|0---0---0---0--|
  |   |_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |   |_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|

And here is something similar but a lot easier to play, at least for me personally:

d|--5------------|---------------|--5------------|--------------5|
B|---------------|--5------------|---------------|--5------------|
G|5-------------5|--------------5|5-------------5|---------------|
D|------5---7----|------5---7----|------5---7----|------5---7----|
g|----0---0---0--|0---0---0---0--|----0---0---0--|0---0---0---0--|
  |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|

Mirek Patek - Posted - 03/23/2013:  11:01:45

Ryan, thanks for your examples, but I am definitely not in the position to comment them at all - I am just entering the world of these Afro-Cuban rhythms. I hope some expert will jump in.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is I-IV-V-IV progression in 2-3 clave in the key of G

        m   i       L   i   m
d|--------------0|--4-------2----|--------------0|--4-------2----|
B|----0-----1----|------1--------|----0-----1----|------1--------|
G|0-----2--------|--------------0|0-----2--------|--------------0|
D|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
g|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
  |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|
  T   T I   I   I   I   I   I   I T   T I   I   I   I   I   I   I

It is repeated twice in order to show how the end is glued to the beginning of the pattern.

Mirek Patek - Posted - 03/24/2013:  02:01:23

It seems I made things too complicated with all these index fingers picking the Up's.
While this may help to grasp the rhythm for starters (like me), at the end one should use
more banjo-friendly (or guitar-friendly in the first example below) picking patterns.

Of course one should use different chords instead all the zeros in the tabs below.
I've hihglighted in different colors where the chord changes should happen
(I hope I am not mistaken and the thumb note should always belong
to the following pinch, not to the preceding one.)


2-3 clave

d|----0-----0----|--0-------0----|----0-----0----|--0-------0----|
B|----0-----0----|--0-------0----|----0-----0----|--0-------0----|
G|0-----0-------0|------0-------0|0-----0-------0|------0-------0|
D|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
g|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
  |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|
  T   M T   M   T   M   T   M   T T   M T   M   T   M   T   M   T
      I     I       I       I         I     I       I       I


3-2 clave

d|--0-------0----|----0-----0----|--0-------0----|----0-----0----|
B|--0-------0----|----0-----0----|--0-------0----|----0-----0----|
G|------0-------0|0-----0-------0|------0-------0|0-----0-------0|
D|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
g|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
  |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|
    M   T   M   T T   M T   M   T   M   T   M   T T   M T   M   T
    I       I         I     I       I       I         I     I


Piano players double some notes in octaves, which is (I guess) because the original
instrument was the "tres" guitar with three pairs of doublestrings, the outer pairs
having strings in octaves (i.e. Cc-ee-Gg). You 5-string banjo players may use
the 1st and 4th string tuned in octave.


2-3 clave

d|0-----0-------0|------0-------0|0-----0-------0|------0-------0|
B|----0-----0----|--0-------0----|----0-----0----|--0-------0----|
G|----0-----0----|--0-------0----|----0-----0----|--0-------0----|
D|0-----0-------0|------0-------0|0-----0-------0|------0-------0|
g|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
  |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|
  M   I M   I   M   I   M   I   M M   I M   I   M   I   M   I   M
  T   T T   T   T   T   T   T   T T   T T   T   T   T   T   T   T


3-2 clave

d|------0-------0|0-----0-------0|------0-------0|0-----0-------0|
B|--0-------0----|----0-----0----|--0-------0----|----0-----0----|
G|--0-------0----|----0-----0----|--0-------0----|----0-----0----|
D|------0-------0|0-----0-------0|------0-------0|0-----0-------0|
g|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
  |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|
    I   M   I   M M   I M   I   M   I   M   I   M M   I M   I   M
    T   T   T   T T   T T   T   T   T   T   T   T T   T T   T   T

Mirek Patek - Posted - 03/24/2013:  03:01:22

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mirek Patek

Piano players double some notes in octaves, which is (I guess) because the original instrument was the "tres" guitar with three pairs of doublestrings, the outer pairs having strings in octaves (i.e. Cc-ee-Gg).

---

Stand corrected about the tuning of tres - it is different inversion of the C major (sometimes D major) chord.

Gg - cc - eE

The 5-string banjo capoed on the 5th fret gives the same tones (without the doubling) on 4th-3rd-2nd strings.

Edited by - Mirek Patek on 03/24/2013 03:02:36

tresero - Posted - 04/01/2013:  12:02:59

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mirek Patek

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mirek Patek

Piano players double some notes in octaves, which is (I guess) because the original instrument was the "tres" guitar with three pairs of doublestrings, the outer pairs having strings in octaves (i.e. Cc-ee-Gg).

---

Stand corrected about the tuning of tres - it is different inversion of the C major (sometimes D major) chord.

Gg - cc - eE

The 5-string banjo capoed on the 5th fret gives the same tones (without the doubling) on 4th-3rd-2nd strings.

---

Mirek asked me to post on this, but alas, I don't play banjo so I can't talk about that. I do play Cuban tres, and have several books/videos on it. I am a Cuban music expert so I will discuss that part of it for you.

The tres has several tunings, Currently in Havana, they are mostly using the Aa-dd-F#f# tuning. or open D. Traditional tuning was the open C, but depending on where you are from, the eE is EE. In other words, the E strings are not octaves but unison and the same note as a guitarists 6th string.

It is important not to think of the tres as a guitar like so many guitarists who learn the tres do. It is really it's own instrument. It has more in common with percussion than guitar in many ways, and to really play this style of music correctly, you need to think like a percussionist, not a picker.

In Cuba, and I can usually tell within 3 bars if the player is Cuban, the 3 side of the clave has the 2nd beat pushed. In fact, compared to our music (i.e. US/England etc blues based stuff), the beat is always pushing. So I can't speak from a technical point on the banjo, put if you play with a push as opposed to laying back, you will get the idea. The banjo also derived from Africa, so it is good from a rhythmic point of view as well. Very few sustained notes are ever played on the tres, and chords, until recently, never.

Any other questions, please feel free to respond. I won't push my books or videos, but if you are interested, let me know or you can find them on amazon (My name is Jon Griffin BTW).

Thanks for the interesting discussion!

Jon

Mirek Patek - Posted - 04/01/2013:  12:34:26

Jon, thanks for your expert words.

While it wasn't the original direction of this thread, now I would like to explore to which extent the banjo could play the rhythmic and harmonic role of tres in the Cuban music. Apparently, I have to understand the tres first.

tresero - Posted - 04/01/2013:  19:15:19

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mirek Patek

 

Jon, thanks for your expert words.

While it wasn't the original direction of this thread, now I would like to explore to which extent the banjo could play the rhythmic and harmonic role of tres in the Cuban music. Apparently, I have to understand the tres first.

---

If you want to start a new thread that is fine. Just let me know, otherwise ask away. I will let you know anything I can help with. If you want me to add to this thread as well, I can do that.

MrManners - Posted - 04/01/2013:  20:18:10

i like to do a 3 -2 clave 2 chord jam in" El Cumbanchero" roots type Afro-Cuban is great listening for me,

MrManners - Posted - 04/01/2013:  20:43:42

Is there a Clave that is used on Mambos,I play mambo jambo, but as of now i just play a straight 4 beat----_Tom

tresero - Posted - 04/02/2013:  07:19:46

quote:

---

Originally posted by MrManners

 

Is there a Clave that is used on Mambos,I play mambo jambo, but as of now i just play a straight 4 beat----_Tom

---

There is definitely clave in mambo. Almost all styles have clave in Cuba. Most tunes are 2-3, but as you notice some are 3-2.

I will upload a cheatsheet for clave a bit later when I get home.

Mirek Patek - Posted - 04/13/2013:  00:00:34

While the alternation of octaves and doublestops is quite challenging for banjo player, I have found very banjo-friendly voicings described by piano player Willie Myette at youtube.com/watch?v=LEsk6Ma0znE

Here is the transcription (piano right hand only) to my DGdg tenor banjo and to your 5-string banjo.

The youtube file is the sample of full lesson available for purchase at pianowithwillie.com/piano-with...0Montunos

tresero - Posted - 04/13/2013:  08:43:15

Here is a clave cheat sheet.

Mirek Patek - Posted - 04/17/2013:  04:11:19

I have found great video at youtube.com/watch?v=JzzPpB2wAh0 showing different rhythmic variations of the montuno in 2-3 clave.

Here is my transcription of Vanessa's right hand to 5-string banjo:

Vanessa Rodrigues' homepage is at vrodriguesmusic.wordpress.com/

tresero - Posted - 04/17/2013:  08:25:27

Since you are in a transcribing mood! Here are 2 more examples for you. One is timba on piano, and the other is modern son on the tres.

Both are from my video/books but you are free to use them as you wish as long as you credit me if it is a commercial purpose.

I hope these aren't too difficult, but I want to see you go beyond 1-4-5 stuff, and besides, it could be fun. If anyone records a version, please let me know, I would love to check it out and put it on my Cuban music site.

Mirek Patek - Posted - 04/18/2013:  22:36:29

There is (almost) ready-made book for 5-string banjo players:

Salsa, Afro Cuban Montunos for Guitar by Carlos Campos

Look at camposmusic.com/books/guitar.html for content and sample pages.

Carlos Campos transcribed the piano montunos [back] to stringed instrument which has very similar tuning to 5-string banjo. The montunos in this book are presented on the three neighbor strings of guitar - either DGB or GBE. So the montunos on the DGB guitar strings can be directly transferred to 5-string banjo fretboard, and the montunos on GBE strings require small adjustment (adding two frets on the highest string) to be played on gDGBD-tuned 5-string banjo.

Mirek Patek - Posted - 04/20/2013:  02:56:27

Here are montunos in 2-3 clave for dominant 7th chords G7, C7, and D7 . First tab line is for my DGdg tenor banjo, second tab line is for your 5-string banjos.

There are three version in each line:

a) First pair of measures is the single note montuno found e.g. in Carlos Campos book referenced above. I play it now by alternating Thumb and Index finger (with doubled Thumb at the end+beginning of the loop). So I do not play the fingering shown in my first montuno post in 3/23/2013 (note that there was C6 arpeggio, not C7)

b) The second pair of measures contains the doublestops on every other note. I found this idea on page 12 of John Valerio book Latin Jazz Piano. Suggested right-hand fingering is T - IM (again with doubled Thumb at the end+beginning of the loop)

c) The third pair of measures extends the idea of doublestops to all notes. The right-hand fingering is up to you.

Mirek Patek - Posted - 04/21/2013:  00:38:11

Here are [5-string] banjo rolls for montunos in I-IV-V-IV (i.e. G-C-D-C) progression in 2-3 clave and 3-2 clave. Each montuno lasts two measures so the line shows two repetitions.

2-3 clave

|----0-----2----|----4-------2--|----0-----2----|----4-------2--|
|--0-----1------|--3-------1----|--0-----1------|--3-------1----|
|0-----0-------2|------0-------0|0-----0-------2|------0-------0|
|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
 |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|
 T I M T I M   T   I M T   I M T T I M T I M   T   I M T   I M T


3-2 clave

|----0-------2--|----4-----2----|----0-------2--|----4-----2----|
|--0-------1----|--3-----1------|--0-------1----|--3-----1------|
(o)----0-------2|2-----0-------0|------0-------2|2-----0-------0|
|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
|---------------|---------------|---------------|---------------|
 |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_| |_|_|_|
(T)I M T   I M T T I M T I M   T   I M T   I M T T I M T I M   T

The first note in 3-2 clave is played just at the beginning, then it is anticipated by the last note of the two-measure loop.

Edited by - Mirek Patek on 04/21/2013 00:39:16

Mirek Patek - Posted - 04/28/2013:  07:45:32

I have realized that I am not able to double the thumbstroke at the end-begining of the loop (in 2-3 montunos) in higher tempos, so I play the first note of the pair with index finger instead - even if that means to go way closer towards my palm with my index finger to hit that thicker string. I have changed the tabs that are inserted as pictures [stored in my website] in this thread, the other tabs typed directly into the messages are now outdated in this respect; including the most recent tabs - I would play I T instead T T there.

The 5-string tabs below show the same chord progression used by Vanessa Rodrigues in her YouTube tutorial (see my post from 4/17/2013). This time the rhythmic development of the montuno is based on the Carlos Campos' book referenced in my post from 4/19/2013.

Watch the fingering of picking-hand: at the end of the 2nd and 4th measure (in all examples) the low note is played by index finger to avoid thumb doubling. The same applies for the middle of 2nd and 4th measure in example 5.

You are supposed to try different chord progressions too.

Edited by - Mirek Patek on 04/28/2013 07:50:36

Mirek Patek - Posted - 04/28/2013:  23:51:59

There are very useful video tutorials presented by Manuel Antonio Rodríguez at

youtube.com/watch?v=zftyCvXzdzY

youtube.com/watch?v=ZQVZs-SZITw

youtube.com/watch?v=BBOKJ421FWM

youtube.com/watch?v=EQRSqL-6uOU

It's in Spanish (so I don't understand a word unless it is kind of musical terminology) but the chord voicings can be easily grasped from the piano.

Two points that stick out for me:

1) Instead of the last low note in the 2-3 clave it is possible to repeat the high doublestop. That way, there is no repeated low note so one does not need to pick the doubled thumbstroke (T T) or drop the index finger to the thick string (I T); instead the doublestop by IM [on the thin strings] precedes the T stroke at the beginning of the loop.

2) The arpeggio can be played not only in ascending way (by forward roll T I M), but also in descending way (by backward roll T M I)