gatordome - Posted - 04/27/2012:  19:15:10

I came across a Gibson Earl Scruggs Standard dated 10-2-93 on the sticker.  It is in bone-stock condition.  I understand that Greg Rich left Gibson earlier that year, so it is a post "Rich era" instrument.  It has a 20-hole tone ring in it which sounds fine to my ears.  I'm not looking to disassemble the banjo or trade out the ring.  I am just curious what type of tone ring it might be.  Would it be a Kulesh or some other make?  If it is a Kulesh, would it be a specific model?  Thanks for any input you might have.

kmwaters - Posted - 04/27/2012:  19:29:30

Mine is an 08 or 09 and has a Kulesh 20 hole, and I believe it has been the same ring since ESS started.

PickaFive - Posted - 04/27/2012:  20:45:36

Except for the time during 1989 when they couldn't get Kulesh rings and any other time they didn't have any??? 

PickaFive

TB-4 Guy - Posted - 04/27/2012:  20:53:32

quote:

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Originally posted by gatordome

I came across a Gibson Earl Scruggs Standard dated 10-2-93 on the sticker.  It is in bone-stock condition.  I understand that Greg Rich left Gibson earlier that year, so it is a post "Rich era" instrument.  It has a 20-hole tone ring in it which sounds fine to my ears.  I'm not looking to disassemble the banjo or trade out the ring.  I am just curious what type of tone ring it might be.  Would it be a Kulesh or some other make?  If it is a Kulesh, would it be a specific model?  Thanks for any input you might have.

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 My ESS is dated 2-27-92, IIRC. It has never been apart so the only marks I can see on the tone ring inside of the resonator are "Gibson USA:" in small letters at the tail piece area. I was told that it has a Gibson Kulesh tone ring. That's very likely the one that you also have. They sound fine to my ears.

lethegoodtimesroll - Posted - 04/27/2012:  22:27:26

The original contract with Gibson and Scruggs was that his model would have a Kulesh 20 hole ring..so thats what you have,if its never been replaced.

Goldstarman - Posted - 04/28/2012:  04:35:39

Because of the year I would say the Kulesh BUT, later on there were lots of people who bought Scruggs banjos that did not have the kulesh ring in them. I purchased two new ones at various times and one had the Crowe ring in it straight from the factory and another the so-called mystery ring.

Lester Crowe - Posted - 04/28/2012:  05:18:20

Not relevant to your question Gatordome but I have an early Scruggs (one of the first 100 made) and my understanding is they have Stew-Mac rings in them made by Steve Ryan. I know one thing, it's an absolute Hoss! 

kmwaters - Posted - 04/28/2012:  06:03:15

I am not about to pull mine apart - at least not today.  I was just going by what specs Gibson put on their web page as specs for the ESS.  Now after reading some of this, who knows??  I may have a generic and got ripped by Henry!!  I wouldn't be the first.  Amazing that a recognized brand like this can come from a company twisting in the wind and making changes (unpublished ones at that) on the fly when it suits them.  I gave up on communication with them too.  They are as unresponsive as a patient in ICU.

bc5000 - Posted - 04/28/2012:  06:33:07

quote:

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Originally posted by Lester Crowe

Not relevant to your question Gatordome but I have an early Scruggs (one of the first 100 made) and my understanding is they have Stew-Mac rings in them made by Steve Ryan. I know one thing, it's an absolute Hoss! 

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Dhutchens said in one of his post's that Steve Ryan never made rings for Stu-Mac that went into a Gibson. That Stu-Mac made their own rings.

Edited by - bc5000 on 04/28/2012 06:37:23

chancy - Posted - 04/28/2012:  06:42:59

I have an '89 ESS and it has a kulesh in it. I guess I got lucky since that was a year that was questionable.

Mike Casey - Posted - 04/28/2012:  07:37:35

If the tone ring has the small Gibson USA logo stamped on the ring face at the tailpiece end of the banjo it is almost certainly a Kulesh ring. You don't have to take the ring off to see that. The Crowe and Mystery Rings did not have this particular Gibson stamp on them and did not have a mark on them that you could see without taking the tone ring off the rim. As stated by others there were times when Gibson would use other tone rings in the Earl Scruggs banjos. Some of these other ring makers Gibson used were Stew Mac, 1st Quality, Production Molders and Steve Huber. If you want to know the serial of your Kulesh ring you will have to remove the ring. Somewhere in this time period Gibson quit marking the ring serial numbers on the rims. Anyway, if you decide to take the ring off to have a look write all the numbers down you see on the ring and the rim and take some pictures too. Put a set of these pictures in the case pocket. As regards the various tone rings Gibson used all of them are very good tone rings in my opinion.

DeanT - Posted - 04/28/2012:  07:52:47

Mine is a 99, and it’s got the Gibson USA stamp visible by taking the resonator off. I’ve had it apart and it’s got the RK over W symbol and S/N 8068, so they were still putting numbers on them in 99... assuming mine is still the original ring. I’m at least the banjo’s 4th owner though, before the trail goes cold.

PeterJ - Posted - 04/28/2012:  15:02:18

The early models (like mine) had a Stew-Mac ring. It's a great sounding banjo. Check Doug Hutchens' BHO page for more info on the Scruggs models.

gatordome - Posted - 04/28/2012:  16:37:43

The tone ring does have "Gibson USA" stamped on the inside face of the tailpiece end, directly above the coordinator rod.  If I ever take it apart, I will look for a serial number and other markings on the tone ring, but it is staying together for now.  I have had the banjo since 1994, a year after it was made, but haven't played it much since I usually play old-time fiddle and banjo.

It was hanging by itself, the only banjo in a guitar shop.  The folks at the shop said that they had taken it on trade and didn't know what to do with it since they were more into guitars and rock/pop music.  They had a real low price on it just to get it out of the shop.  I wasn't looking for a banjo at the time, but it was too good a deal to pass up.  The banjo came home with me and has been here ever since.  I'm getting back into bluegrass style music these days, so it will probably see a lot more use in the near future.

Thanks for the replies.

stelling man - Posted - 04/28/2012:  16:48:32

I had an 08 ESS that had a Crowe ring In It, Gibson put In whatever they had on hand at the time..

STELLING MAN

rferg - Posted - 04/28/2012:  20:46:15

I've got a '96 model that I bought new from JDMC. It was supposed to be the Kulesh ring, but based on how others have described them, this one has a Crowe ring. I've got pictures of the ring on my home page.

McUtsi - Posted - 04/29/2012:  02:36:21

...and,in the hands of a great picker, they all sound just fine.McUtsi

FXHERE - Posted - 04/29/2012:  10:19:31

Mine now has a Hatfield..best move I ever made..

bangee boy - Posted - 04/30/2012:  01:01:15

The original owner on my 1992 ESS removed the the factory ring , bought a Huber  ring and had Geoff Stelling install it and do the set-up 10 years ago. Everyone seasoned player that picks it says   the sound is great ...and I agree IMHO. He gave me the original Kulesh (Spelling?) in the sale also. I'll have to try it in another banjo in my herd someday.

AndyM - Posted - 04/30/2012:  14:46:33

Mine is Number 2998, mfd 1996, Ed Weber era.  20 hole Gibson USA and it is a KILLER!!!

wuzapicker - Posted - 05/02/2012:  15:57:02

My Y2K RB3 (not an ESS) has the "Gibson USA" stamp on the tone ring below the tailpiece. It also has the RK hearld underneath.

I've not had it apart in about 11 1/2 years. But I don't think there's any problem with the ring, only the sloppy loose fit Gibson Inc. achieved. Hopefully the ESS models have better craftsmanship in that regard. I'm pretty much decided to have FQMS machine one of their Factory Floor rims to my Gibson brand hardware. If I sending it them I might as well have put their premier rim in it. I expect given a proper tone ring fit to a top quality rim that RB3 should sound as good as it ever will.

bc5000 - Posted - 05/02/2012:  21:03:17

I sent my '85 Earl Scruggs to Kyle Smith last week for a thorough setup and he said the ring was on really tight. Apparently the rim had a thick coat of finish under the ring, and the factory had set the ring before the finish cured. 

After almost 30 years of playing this banjo it's hard to imagine what it's going to sound like when I get it back.

PeterJ - Posted - 05/03/2012:  06:33:34

bc5000 - I found finish under the ring on my '86 ESS. Once it was gone, the fit loosened up and the sound improved significantly -- a bigger, fuller sound. More low end, more pop, everything I wanted from the tone. The "character" of the sound was the same, but it sounded less "constricted", for lack of a better word. I think you're in for a very pleasant surprise.