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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Banjo terms glossary?


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/201372

Banjophobic - Posted - 03/06/2011:  17:26:51


Ive been wanting to see this on the Hangout for quite awhile and often see posts from folks, especially newbies, asking for help with banjo terminology. I would be willing to put in some work to get that going and hop[e others will chime in to help too. It would a great time saver and a great resource overall, I think. What do you guys think? It could possibly turn into a candidate for 'sticky' topic , who knows.

Jim D - Posted - 03/06/2011:  17:56:40


Great idea, John! I would suggest that somehow it be controlled by one person, or a limited number, so that we don't end up with dueling definitions (e.g. "I say frailing is.......")

And, maybe I can find out who "Earl" is. LOL

Jim

beegee - Posted - 03/06/2011:  18:12:26


I've got a Remco banjo with a long handle on it and it has a funny little bump on the handle with a metal thingy sticking out. One of the wires that attaches to the bottom of the drum is broken and the backplate is split....

Augie - Posted - 03/07/2011:  04:12:04


I'm a newbie and will say, that the search for the definition of some of the banjo terms has been frustrating. When you have to go to Wikipedia for a banjo related term only to find everything but what you want, it is discouraging. I know that if I read enough of the books out there I will eventually satisfy my quest, but I don't have that much time left. I don't even buy green bananas anymore. :-)

Texasbanjo - Posted - 03/07/2011:  05:35:29


I think it's a great idea and if I can be of any help, let me know.

Banjophobic - Posted - 03/07/2011:  08:37:26


Thanks for your input everyone. I didnt want to attempt this without any interest. There was a thread posted about this topic and someone listed a link to Banjo-L. They have a 'glossary' over there. I looked through it and its actually very good and accurate. We could always add to that version of the glossary, and correct anything that we find thats inaccurate. It would greatly speed up the process of getting our glossary going and save me and anyone helping, as TON of typing-.
Does anyone know a contact there on Banjo-L, who I could check with? There was an email listed with it, and I attempted to contact him/her, to see if it would be possible to copy and paste it to the Hangout's new version. The email came back as un-deliverable or not as a valid email anymore. I dont want to make anyone mad over there by copying it and not asking first. I would be sure to give them the proper credit for its use.


Edited by - Banjophobic on 03/07/2011 08:39:26

Banjophobic - Posted - 03/07/2011:  08:40:31


quote:
Originally posted by Texasbanjo

I think it's a great idea and if I can be of any help, let me know.



Thanks Sherry. This maybe could be a topic good enough to be a sticky?

Texasbanjo - Posted - 03/07/2011:  10:56:22


I think it might help it to be a sticky so it would stay up top of whatever forum we decide to put it in - that way it would be easy for everyone to find.

What about music theory? That way everyone could check it out whether they play bluegrass, clawhammer, jazz, etc.?

Thoughts?

Banjophobic - Posted - 03/07/2011:  10:57:18


Ok, Ive tried to contact everyone over there that I can, and none of the emails work. Since the glossary isnt under the umbrella of 'subscribers only", Im hoping its for anyone/everyone who can use it and copy it.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 03/07/2011:  11:31:30


How about we start our own glossary -- I have typed up a few definitions. Maybe this would get the ball rolling.

Here's my take on some of the basic questions on rolls, slides, hammers, pulls, etc. I have kept it as simple as I possibly can. I could be more specific, but for a beginner, I hope what I've written makes sense and helps:

Roll: A pattern with the right hand, usually 8 8th notes.

Forward Roll: a pattern where the roll goes "up" that is 3, 2, 1, 3, 2, 1, 3, 2 (strings, not frets) Fingering: can be TIM TIM TI or TM TIM TIM or IM, TIM TIM

Reverse Roll: a pattern where the roll goes "down", that is: 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, 1, 2 (strings, not frets) Fingering: MIT MIT MI or MI MIT MIT

Square roll, alternating thumb roll: where you pick with the thumb, index, thumb, index; i.e., TI TM - this is fingering, not strings, you can use 1, 4, 2, 3 or whatever strings will fit with the TI TM pattern.

Pinch: usually picking 2 strings simultaneously and usually the 1 and 5th strings. This is sometimes used as a fill in at the end of a musical phrase, sometimes to denote timing of quarter notes.

Pick Up Notes: used to set the tempo of the song, notify other pickers when to start picking, often the song will actually start with pick up notes as the first few words of a song.

Slide: usually starting on a lower fret and moving up to a higher fret; i.e., slide from 2 - 4 on the 4th string -- it gives emphasis to the melody note of a song.

Hammer-on: similar to the slide, it gives emphasis to a particular note. Can be done from fretted note to fretted note; i.e., 2 -3 hammer on the 3rd string but can be from an open string to a fretted string; i.e., 0 - 2 on the 4th string.

Pull Off: Opposite of a hammer on. It may also be used for emphasis of a certain note or just simply as a "frill" or fill in.

ZEPP - Posted - 03/07/2011:  11:40:59


quote:
Originally posted by Banjophobic

Ok, Ive tried to contact everyone over there that I can, and none of the emails work. Since the glossary isnt under the umbrella of 'subscribers only", Im hoping its for anyone/everyone who can use it and copy it.


Jeff Chumley compiled and hosts his Banjo Glossary at home.comcast.net/~jchumley/ban...ohead.htm The BANJO-L site (which I created a decade and a half ago) merely references it as an external link (Jeff wrote it to match the BANJO-L pages so this would be seamless). Banjophobic, I shall send you the most current email address I have for Jeff in a p.m.

Cheers,
ZEPP

JoeDownes - Posted - 03/07/2011:  11:49:20


A banjo wiki would be great. Maybe some FAQ's could be included, like head tension for example.

There are so many sites on music theory and the Wikipedia articles are well written and extensive, so I don't think it would make much sense to write articles on music theory, especially for a bho glossary. It would be a good idea to link some articles on terms that pop up often, like syncopation and roman numeral chord notation.

jchumley - Posted - 03/07/2011:  12:45:29


Wow. I hadn't thought about the banjo glossary in years. I put it together probably back around 1998 or so as a response to the many Newbie questions on Banjo-L. It is easier to find that kind of information now than it was then.

Banjophobic - Posted - 03/07/2011:  13:23:27


Zepp

Hey, thanks for the heads-up and info. Jeff, would you be ok with me copying and pasting the total glossary from teh Banjo-L site as the starting point for the Hangout's glossary ? Thats would be great. Ive checked it out and its well done and very comprehensive. We can always add new terms as we go. This would save me TONS of time and typing,haha. I'll be sure to give you,Zepp and the site proper credit for it.

Banjophobic - Posted - 03/07/2011:  13:25:46


Sherry
Well, Im thinking it will be far easier to use what Jeff has compiled as the framework and then decide how/when to add entries. From what Ive seen of the bnj-L's listing, its very good and accurate. We can add things to it that arent already listed, as it evolves. Seems like the logical plan. What do you think?

Banjophobic - Posted - 03/07/2011:  13:32:58


quote:
Originally posted by JoeDownes

A banjo wiki would be great. Maybe some FAQ's could be included, like head tension for example.

There are so many sites on music theory and the Wikipedia articles are well written and extensive, so I don't think it would make much sense to write articles on music theory, especially for a bho glossary. It would be a good idea to link some articles on terms that pop up often, like syncopation and roman numeral chord notation.




Joe

My goal is to have a resource available on site, to save folks time and searching online. Theres always "Wiki" and its not going anywhere. Folks are free to go there if they wish. But it would be nice to have as much info listed here, as possible. Its also nice to have that information looked over/after by real banjo players and enthusiasts. Sometimes the information listed on Wiki isnt from the player aspect. Sometimes, its just plain wrong,haha.

Augie - Posted - 03/07/2011:  15:21:38


Hi Guys, Good start. Be sure that there is a place to introduce a new word or term not found in the glossary. You know like: If you do not find the term you are looking for in this glossary, please spell it out in the box below and our staff will research it and add it for future reference.

thehurricane - Posted - 03/07/2011:  18:07:59


Great! Thanks! I already learned something. Can we add Frailing, Clawhammer and chicken pickin' definitions to this? I think I know what they mean, but aint really sure! This is a great idea, and a big help to folks like me, just starting out and no local resources to speak of. Maybe it could have its own section on here, subtitle of "Tabs and Lessons" for instance. Would make it convenient for all!

Banjophobic - Posted - 03/07/2011:  19:10:27


Ok, Jeff, the glossary creator on Banjo-L, gave me the OK to copy and paste it here. So Im going to post the terms in one thread. Next question is where to list it. Maybe it should be a sticky for both the Scruggs and OT forums. since it contains terms from both? Or would it be better served somewhere else?

Maybe Eric should chime in here on this too?


Edited by - Banjophobic on 03/07/2011 19:11:21

Texasbanjo - Posted - 03/08/2011:  05:46:35


Banjophobic -- sure, not a problem, I just wanted to get the ball rolling. No problem using what's already been done before and probably much better than my quick thoughts.

Banjophobic - Posted - 03/08/2011:  07:10:00


quote:
Originally posted by Texasbanjo

Banjophobic -- sure, not a problem, I just wanted to get the ball rolling. No problem using what's already been done before and probably much better than my quick thoughts.




Yes, It would be much faster to use what he has now. His glossary is very comprehensive and we can fill in the gaps as we go. I'll most likely post it in the other playing forum, since Im not involved in the Scruggs forum anymore. It should be there and in the OT forum too. You or another mod can move it.

My next question is for you computer folks. How will I set it up as an index, as it is over on the Banjo-L site? Take a look here:

zeppmusic.com/banjo/

Look at the 'Glossary' page. This is how it should look here. I can copy and paste the information, but it wont be in this format, obviously. Anyone want to volunteer to set this up or tell me how to do it?


Edited by - Banjophobic on 03/08/2011 07:14:49

schlange - Posted - 03/08/2011:  09:33:17


Good discussion. This has been something we've bantered about several times over the last several years, but have never created/implemented tools for.

In my mind, there are two routes you can go with this in terms of managing and browsing a glossary. Let's call them "level 1" and "level 2."

Level 1 would be something along the lines of what Jeff has already done here: home.comcast.net/~jchumley/ban...oglos.htm It certainly does the job quite well. Fairly easy to browse. Of course, Jeff has to make changes himself, and receive them via email, which isn't ideal--but it obviously works (and Jeff is to be commended for maintaining it so well for so long, BTW).

Level 2 would be more of a real-time collaborative approach--let people click a link on a definition in order to suggest a change. Suggested changes could be automatically fed to the glossary team (which would probably be just 1-5 people) who could decide which edits to make. An edit history could be kept. Terms would be individual items in a database in this format, so they could be searched, possibly even automatically linked from forum topics.

Level 2 is more in keeping with how I like to do things on the Hangouts--but it also will require a significant amount of work on our end. Level 1 could be implemented right now via a blog entry.

Thoughts?

minstrelmike - Posted - 03/08/2011:  10:36:35


I like the idea of a glossary.

I don't see anyway around having arguments over it tho.
Let them thrive.

In my opinion, texasbanjo's roll definition is wrong. (But at least he started the topic 'rolling' ha ha)

A roll is a sequence of finger movements, not particular plucked strings.

tm tim tim can be done a zillion different ways.
Not really a zillion.
If you say the thumb can pluck strings 2-5 (not the 1st string) and the middle finger always plucks the 1st string and the index can puck just strings 2,3,or 4 (I know you -can- use in on the 1st), the possible number of different string combinations for the tm tim tim is 4*1*4*3*1*4*3*1=4*12*12 which is a lot of different combos.

21 521 521; 31 531 531, annd 41 541 541 are the ones I start folks on and as soon as they think they've got it, then I suggest alternating that Index finger: 21 531 531 and 31 521 531.

You choose the particular string based on lefthand desires, not right hand.
The lefthand _always_ leads. It better be fretting the desired string before the right hand plucks it.

Banjophobic - Posted - 03/08/2011:  10:46:19


quote:
Originally posted by schlange

Good discussion. This has been something we've bantered about several times over the last several years, but have never created/implemented tools for.

In my mind, there are two routes you can go with this in terms of managing and browsing a glossary. Let's call them "level 1" and "level 2."

Level 1 would be something along the lines of what Jeff has already done here: home.comcast.net/~jchumley/ban...oglos.htm It certainly does the job quite well. Fairly easy to browse. Of course, Jeff has to make changes himself, and receive them via email, which isn't ideal--but it obviously works (and Jeff is to be commended for maintaining it so well for so long, BTW).

Level 2 would be more of a real-time collaborative approach--let people click a link on a definition in order to suggest a change. Suggested changes could be automatically fed to the glossary team (which would probably be just 1-5 people) who could decide which edits to make. An edit history could be kept. Terms would be individual items in a database in this format, so they could be searched, possibly even automatically linked from forum topics.

Level 2 is more in keeping with how I like to do things on the Hangouts--but it also will require a significant amount of work on our end. Level 1 could be implemented right now via a blog entry.

Thoughts?




Level two sounds intriguing but sounds like a ton of work on your part Eric. Level one would be great and suit the purposes pretty well. So someone would have to 'own' the Glossary on their own site I take it, and it cant be re-created here and maintained?

schlange - Posted - 03/08/2011:  10:50:30


It can be posted as a blog entry on, say, your own blog John. Then you could maintain it.

Banjophobic - Posted - 03/08/2011:  11:11:09


quote:
Originally posted by schlange

It can be posted as a blog entry on, say, your own blog John. Then you could maintain it.



Oh, ok, I get what youre saying. I was just hoping it could be a sticky, in the playing forums, so that folks could go there and surf it. Seems like a better idea than making them try and find my blog to use it. Maybe it could be a separate area, like the tabs archive section. Folks could click on the tab and go search the Glossary alphabetically, like jeff has it on Banjo-L's site now. But I dont know how much work or space or bandwidth that would take here, from you Eric.

Texasbanjo - Posted - 03/08/2011:  12:42:17


With Eric's okay, I could put it as a sticky in the forums -- bluegrass, clawhammer, music theory -- whatever forum we decide to use. And, if it needed to be edited, a mod could edit it - I'd be glad to do that if you have additions, deletions, changes, etc.

ZEPP - Posted - 03/08/2011:  13:01:28


quote:
Originally posted by schlange

a real-time collaborative approach--let people click a link on a definition in order to suggest a change. Suggested changes could be automatically fed to the glossary team (which would probably be just 1-5 people) who could decide which edits to make. An edit history could be kept. Terms would be individual items in a database in this format, so they could be searched, possibly even automatically linked from forum topics



As a "level 1" system already exists (its creator/owner is even a BHO member), and links to it have been posted, I don't quite see the advantage of recreating it here. If Jeff wishes to pass it along to another keeper or host it here, that's fine, but doing so really isn't bringing anything new to the party.

OTOH, your "level 2" idea, Eric, would indeed make for a very useful addition, as the database would not only would remain "alive," but having a team to maintain it would assure that personality issues would not interfere. Further, a team comprising OT-, 4-string-, bluegrass-, Celtic-, and other diverse players might assure a better, more accurate database.

I realize you're not calling for votes, Eric, but if and when you do, mine goes to "Level 2."

Cheers,
ZEPP


Edited by - ZEPP on 03/09/2011 05:11:44

Augie - Posted - 03/09/2011:  04:44:22


Hi Guys, I've been following this since John first started this effort. Two of the major considerations for the beginner user are visiblity and accessibility. Most Newbies to banjo are Newbies to BHO also and navigating through BHO can be very confusing for them. I think that BHO is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it takes quite a while to understand how to navigate if you are not a whiz at Blog, Forums or computer use. Thanks for all your efforts.

A concerned Newbie in Pennsylvania.

Banjophobic - Posted - 03/09/2011:  06:55:09


Yes, its always possible to post links to other sources, as Zepp points out. My goal would be to have as many resources here as we can get. This makes the site more complete and saves folks time surfing the web and opening multiple windows while here is all.

Laurence Diehl - Posted - 03/09/2011:  09:35:39


I like the idea. The definitions would be very useful for the newbies and the fact that the same definition can have many names, that kind of confusion could be cleared up with this glossary. I will be interested to see what format this ends up in. The Level 2 idea is in the tradition of the Hangout, but knowing the kind of banter that goes on around here, the 'glossary team' would definitely want to remain anonymous!
L

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