tommymeboy - Posted - 04/16/2010:  16:15:44

I'm self-taught on tenor, and I'm wondering about closed scale fingerings. Do people use 4-finger "mandolin"-type fingerings? It's a long reach, but seems possible. Or do they shift within a fingering? Thanks!

Dogface - Posted - 04/16/2010:  17:45:38

I don't play mando...my fingers are too big .... so I am not real sure what you mean here. For me, it depends on where, on the neck, you are playing. Down near the nut I guess it's too much of a reach for me, anyway, to use four. Up the neck it's a different story. Bottom line is what ever works for you. Reaches can be accomplished with finger stretches and practice... I never thought I could reach four frets with my pinkie to fifth with index on one. Can be done.

tommymeboy - Posted - 04/16/2010:  19:30:56

Thanks, Dogface, that helps. I was talking about, say in D Maj.: 1st finger on D at fret 2, 2nd Finger at E, 3rd at F#, and pinkie on G, and on to 3rd string... I guess i've only found scales using open strings, and was wondering what goes on "up the neck."

aroblin - Posted - 04/17/2010:  01:54:05

Buddy Wachter teaches this well on tape 4 in his Banjo Pathways course. I'll try to convey what I've learned:

* Like mandolin, the symmetrical tuning of the tenor banjo offers wonderful string-string possibilities.
* Work out the closed position (no open-string) scale patterns on two strings, starting with the major scale. Finger the entire octave on two strings.
* Work out the closed position octave scale patterns for all modes. Finger the entire octave on two strings, Memorize the patterns.
* If we learn to play in closed position, we can play a tune in any key and still maintain the same fingering.

aroblin - Posted - 04/17/2010:  01:54:49

Buddy Wachter teaches this well on tape 4 in his Banjo Pathways course. I'll try to convey what I've learned:

* Like mandolin, the symmetrical tuning of the tenor banjo offers wonderful string-string possibilities.
* Work out the closed position (no open-string) scale patterns on two strings, starting with the major scale. Finger the entire octave on two strings.
* Work out the closed position octave scale patterns for all modes. Finger the entire octave on two strings, Memorize the patterns.
* If we learn to play in closed position, we can play a tune in any key and still maintain the same fingering.

tommymeboy - Posted - 04/17/2010:  06:28:10

Thanks, aroblin! Seems like I'm on the right track, it can be played like a big mandolin! They have a system on the Mandolin Cafe website called "Ffcp" (four-finger closed position) where you can play a scale starting on any finger.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 04/17/2010:  07:56:23

I´m wondering - what´s a "normal" reach?

I´m a male and have large hands, but I can´t reach 6 frets at the lower half of the fretboard on a tenor banjo. Reaching 6 frets - f.ex. from Fret 2 to Fret 7 - is necessary for reaching all notes within a scale in some positions - without sliding the grip a little up and down the neck.

So I slide my grip a little when playing single string.

How about any of you?

Polle

tommymeboy - Posted - 04/17/2010:  08:34:54

God Morgen, Polle, I agree- I can't reach 7 frets, so I've been sort of sliding/shifting, more like a rocking motion to get to the next fret.

aroblin - Posted - 04/17/2010:  09:56:25

Polle--

Playing chromatic notes from Fret 2 to Fret 7, I slide my first (index) and fourth (little) fingers.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 04/17/2010:  10:09:45

OK! Thanks for the infos.

Andrew - I´m not familiar with Buddy´s courses - only his own ways of playing.

He can for sure spread his fingers extremely much - but how is he showing the tenor fingerings? Also with some small slides as the rest of us?

Polle

Klondike Waldo - Posted - 04/17/2010:  11:41:55

I'm a firm believer in whatever works for you is the right way. I have somewhat stubby fingers, so using the same finger for two frets on Mando is OK, on Tenor banjo (or five string), no way. I slide a bit because that's what works for me.

aroblin - Posted - 04/17/2010:  12:35:08

Polle--Buddy's Banjo Pathways course is an excellent investment. I understand you can order one tape (it's VHS-only), see if you like it, and return it if it isn't what you're looking for. Meanwhile, here's how he fingers a C major scale on the C and G strings:

Starting with on the open C string:
C string: C (open), D (1st finger), E (3rd finger), A (4th finger)
G string: G (open), A (1st finger), B (3rd finger), C (4th finger)

Starting on D, 2nd fret of the C string:
C string: D (1st), E (2nd), F (3rd), G (4th)
G string: A (1st), B (2nd), C (3rd), D (4th)

Starting on E, 4th fret of the C string:
C string: E (1st), F (1st), G (2nd), A (4th)
G string: B (1st), C (1st), D (2nd), E (4th)

Starting on F, 5th fret of the C string:
C string: F (1st), G (2nd), A (4th)
G string: B (1st), C (1st), D (2nd), E (4th), F (4th)

I haven't spelled out the entire scale, but I hope this gives you the idea. In this study, Buddy slides with only the 1st and 4th fingers. He avoids playing whole tones with the 2nd and 3rd fingers because, he says, its too awkward.

I've studied Buddy's Intermediate Banjo Pathways course quite intently for the past two years or so. It has done wonders for my tenor banjo ability and general musicianship. I've studied music for 43 years and played numerous stringed instruments professionally for more than 30 years, but I've never found a course as effective as Maestro Wachter's. He is an inspiring player and excellent teacher.

banjopaolo - Posted - 04/17/2010:  13:48:43

Hi
I'm a tall man and have big hands but honestly I find unconfortable the fingerigs you suggest for the D and E scale, I usually use some small slides of the frist or fourth finger like on the exemple starting from F. I tend to use very small movements keeping my left thumb still on the neck... but after all I must say that melodic playing is not my specialty on thenor banjo, when I want to play melodic lines I usually do it on violin that is my main instrument...

Dogface - Posted - 04/18/2010:  08:28:17

I've not seen those Buddy W. tapes but I like what Aroblin quoted. I use a similar closed fingering to go up not just an octave but an entire scale on any three strings. If/when you get good at it, it becomes a good riff for a long section of one chord in a melody which might otherwise be boring.

Edited by - Dogface on 04/20/2010 06:30:13

Klondike Waldo - Posted - 04/19/2010:  17:36:33

quote:

---

Originally posted by aroblin

Polle--Buddy's Banjo Pathways course is an excellent investment. I understand you can order one tape (it's VHS-only), see if you like it, and return it if it isn't what you're looking for. Meanwhile, here's how he fingers a C major scale on the C and G strings:

Starting with on the open C string:
C string: C (open), D (1st finger), E (3rd finger), A (4th finger)

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by aroblin
G string: G (open), A (1st finger), B (3rd finger), C (4th finger)

Starting on D, 2nd fret of the C string:
C string: D (1st), E (2nd), F (3rd), G (4th)
G string: A (1st), B (2nd), C (3rd), D (4th)

Starting on E, 4th fret of the C string:
C string: E (1st), F (1st), G (2nd), A (4th)
G string: B (1st), C (1st), D (2nd), E (4th)

Starting on F, 5th fret of the C string:
C string: F (1st), G (2nd), A (4th)
G string: B (1st), C (1st), D (2nd), E (4th), F (4th)

I haven't spelled out the entire scale, but I hope this gives you the idea. In this study, Buddy slides with only the 1st and 4th fingers. He avoids playing whole tones with the 2nd and 3rd fingers because, he says, its too awkward.

I've studied Buddy's Intermediate Banjo Pathways course quite intently for the past two years or so. It has done wonders for my tenor banjo ability and general musicianship. I've studied music for 43 years and played numerous stringed instruments professionally for more than 30 years, but I've never found a course as effective as Maestro Wachter's. He is an inspiring player and excellent teacher.

---

aroblin - Posted - 04/20/2010:  02:31:18

<<I'm guessing that's F on 4th finger, not A>>

Oops. Yes. You're right.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 04/21/2010:  02:02:06

Andrew,

Thanks - interesting!

It seems, that Buddy uses 4th finger all the time - but 3dr finger only partly.

Plus he prefers a slide of 1st finger over a slide of 4th finger.

Indeed very natural - 1st finger is the strongest - 4th finger has the widest "spread - and 3dr finger can be used f.ex. for additional half notes.

I myself am not using this fingering - I basicly slide fingers 1 &3 and use fingers 2&4 for simple fingering. However I´m not playing decidedly single string very often - I´m combining this in small parts with chord melody, cross-picking etc. in improvised soloes. I´m first of all a jazz band musician with solistic tendencies - LOL!

Plus I´m that "strange" guy, that uses his thumb for most chord fingerings and chord melody playing - my basic fingers are T, 1, 2 and 3 - I´ll mostly use my pinky for additional color tones, inside scales etc.

Maybe that´s why it feels most natural for me to slide finger 3 instead of 4.

Polle