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 Playing Advice: Clawhammer and Old-Time Styles
 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Tune of the Week 17 July - Sally in the Garden


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/153000

rteale - Posted - 07/16/2009:  16:40:18


Hi

The Tune of the Week is the lovely old minor tune "Sally in the Garden." This was one of the first tunes I learned (from Mike Iverson's tabs) and in learning, sort-of cracked drop-thumbing. So I have a lot to thank him and this tune for.

I found it hard to put any history around it other than to say its an old American fiddle tune (Appalachian, Kentucky) and there appear to be associated songs and lyrics. In summary the protagonist Sally seems to be in the aforementioned garden sifting sand for goodness knows what reason, possibly helping out some chap Sam, and may be waiting for (or already upstairs with) the infamous and quite filthy hog-eye man, although this may be some quite different Sally - who knows? In the more robust versions she has a very nasty case of flatulence that literally shakes the foundations of buildings. Either way she doesn't seem to be the sort of girl to take home to your mother - but who am I to judge.

Whatever - its hard to tie any of these lyrics to the contemplative and beautiful tune we have here, so I'm going to leave that right there for now.

Although its hardly a ballad I think its one of the few tunes that sounds best relatively slow, and I find myself trying to fight the urge to speed up, particularly in the B section.

I play it in either double D tuning (where it belongs) or often in sawmill as I don't use the fourth string.

There are many great versions around. Here are some favs:

Here's Mike Iverson's tab page with his version and tab. Scroll down to see.
http://www.bluesageband.com/Tabs.html

A great version from the Nashville Acoustic All Stars on Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbigUQOpPoI

Anne and Mac also do a version (of course, is there anything they haven't done).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LSrPiD23fI

Here is the amazon link to Mary Z Cox's "A Secret Life of the Banjo" that has a great version on it.
http://www.amazon.com/Sally-in-the-...p/B0010Y35YS

And Adam Hurt does a version on his album Intrigue.....
http://www.amazon.com/Intrigue-Adam...p/B000063KQO

Even Country Music singer Kathy Mattea does a (mandolin based) version on her album "Coal" if that's your cup-of-tea.

Here is a link to the "Mountain Music of Kentucky" album on which JD Cornett sings the song acapella, which gives a clue as to how the tune is derived from the song and the odd "sifting sand" lyric (and as a bonus Marion Sumner does a version at break-neck speed on the same album).
http://www.folkways.si.edu/albumdet...?itemID=2382

There are a number of super versions from Hangout members - too many to list and I dont want to show favoritism so you will have to search them out for yourselves.


And I will post my own humble attempt eventually by way of support for my Tuna choice. I'm traveling at the moment and don t have access to my banjo, (sob!).

... Its there now ....

So that's it. I hope you enjoy.

Oh and I do believe I have the honor of being the 52nd Tune of the Week - so hooray, three cheers and a happy 1st birthday to the Tuna, and congrats to all the Hangout members who contributed over the year, with particular mention to BanjoJudy who tenaciously marshaled the reluctant.


Ray


Edited by - rteale on 07/19/2009 02:22:08

RG - Posted - 07/16/2009:  17:09:13


Ray - Nice tune choice! One of my fav's...RD Lunceford plays my all time favorite arrangement of this tune on his "Drop Thumb" CD...well done!

chip arnold - Posted - 07/16/2009:  17:16:30


I love this tune. I learned it from an old Crockett Family Mountaineers record on Honking Duck. I can no longer find it on that website http://honkingduck.com/dp/ It came out in A flat minor which I figured should have been Am so I learned it in that key. Later I found that everyone else (because of John Burkes book?) played it in Dm so I've since learned it there.

Edit: I just checked out Mike's tab and I see that he credits John Burke. I have John's wonderful book and have played through his tab. It's pretty much what everyone plays today and other than the key change, very much like the Crockett Family version I learned it from. If anyone finds that recording, I'd love a link to it.
**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold


Edited by - chip arnold on 07/16/2009 17:22:13

Bill Rogers - Posted - 07/16/2009:  18:01:41


John Cohen recorded the Crockett Family version on his Acoustic Disc CD, "Stories that the Crow Told Me." Sue Draheim on fiddle.

Bill

Kitt - Posted - 07/16/2009:  18:01:54


chip,
I found something on Honking Duck that is close to if not exactly what you were looking for.

I think the second tune played by The Crockett Family Mountaineers in this "Medley of Old Time Dance Tunes" is Sally in the Garden.

http://honkingduck.com/mc/node/309

chip arnold - Posted - 07/16/2009:  18:32:34


Thanks Kitt, that's it. I didn't remember it being in a medley.

Tish & I just uploaded a quickie version of it to me Hangout page.

**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold

banjered - Posted - 07/16/2009:  22:00:46


Ray says "Although its hardly a ballad I think its one of the few tunes that sounds best relatively slow, and I find myself trying to fight the urge to speed up, particularly in the B section."

I don't like to play any modal tune very fast. It seems to be a tuning where "speed kills." But hey, different strokes....TC


rteale - Posted - 07/17/2009:  00:45:22


quote:
Originally posted by tom clunie


I don't like to play any modal tune very fast. It seems to be a tuning where "speed kills." But hey, different strokes....TC



I know what you mean but there are exceptions - Greasy Coat is great at full pelt, in my opinion.

Actually Sally in the Garden is supposed to be in double C/D (played in C/D minor) - I'm just too lazy to always tune to it. I often play Julliane Johnson in sawmill for the same reason.

Ray

pluckyfingers - Posted - 07/17/2009:  02:54:47


Mike's playing has always been one of my inspirations and his version of "Sally in the Garden", reminded me of classical music. I could imagine classical guitar, and banjo side by side on this tune. Also check out Mike's lovely playing on the following Youtube video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zEpBhS5hk4



Remember to be nice to your children, they will eventually choose your nursing home.

Julian44_4 - Posted - 07/17/2009:  03:15:34


A good history source for Sally in the Garden (Sally Ann) is on Andrew Kuntz's
website Fiddler's Companion.

http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/SALLY_SALV.htm

David

tfaux - Posted - 07/17/2009:  08:24:47


quote:
[i]
Actually Sally in the Garden is supposed to be in double C/D (played in C/D minor) - I'm just too lazy to always tune to it. I often play Julliane Johnson in sawmill for the same reason.

Ray





Great tune Ray.

Regarding D vs. A modal, each key has it's advocates willing to go to the mat for it's correctness. For what it's worth, in my town Sally is in D-modal/minor but when it's played in A-modal it's called "Hog-Eyed Man." Same words.

Sally in the Garden siftin' siftin'
Sally in the Garden siftin' sand
Sally in the garden siftin' siftin'
Sally upstairs with the hog-eyed man.

Here's a version from my page: http://www.banjohangout.ws/banjohan...19312009.mp3

Tom

Mark Johnson - Posted - 07/17/2009:  09:16:32


Great tune. Very haunting. I think Reed Martin's was the first I'd heard, but have heard plenty since, and have certainly played it to death myself.

Hey Tom... my work speakers are lousy. Sounds like a cello with you there or something? Really cool, can't wait to hear it at home later.

Mark

LyleK - Posted - 07/17/2009:  09:35:48


quote:
Originally posted by tfaux: For what it's worth, in my town Sally is in D-modal/minor but when it's played in A-modal it's called "Hog-Eyed Man."
Tom
Or, to put it another way, when you guys/gals play Hog-Eyed Man I get to play Sally in the Garden (with very slight modifications), and when you play Sally in the Garden I just get this confused look on my face if I'm playing banjo. But seriously, the A vs. D minor is no biggy on fiddle - you just shift it over a string. So in the future when Sally in the Garden comes up I'm fiddling it.

Speaking of variations, there's a totally different SITG in the soundtrack for "Ride with the Devil."

LyleK
http://lylewk.home.comcast.net

vrteach - Posted - 07/17/2009:  09:41:53


Great tune.

Ha! I find that I had mis-titled a tune on my personal site as "Sally in the Garden". It was actually "Cabin in the Woods". I'll fix that and see if I can a version of S in the G up there.

I also want to point out that this is episode 52 of the Tune of the Week. ONE YEAR OF TUNES! Congratulations everyone.

Erich -- There''s always room for cello..

http://vrteach.org/banjo/
http://prairiegrapevine.org/
U of Illinois-Springfield Old Time Music

banjo_brad - Posted - 07/17/2009:  10:33:34


I learned "Sally in the Garden" early on in my banjo life. Since I wasn't an ear-learner (but am beginning to become one), I got my version from the Mel Bay Complete Clawhammer Banjo Book. Alex Slater's version. It came completely from the tab, as I had never heard it before. When I recorded it, I also added some "Tater Patch" from the same source and called it "Sally in the Tater Patch."

My version (with all it's errors) is here.

Nice tune, and a good pick, Ray!


Brad
------------------
www.PricklyPearMusic.net
http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/5/ My ezFolk page
http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/3371/ Tucson Old Time Music Circle page on ezFolk
http://www.totmc.org Tucson Old Time Music Circle Homepage

Don Borchelt - Posted - 07/19/2009:  02:45:20


Some great versions here on the BHO, about a dozen, all really fine. Ed Britt taught me this tune some time ago; he plays it in double C, with the capo at the second fret, so it is D modal the way we do it. I pick it three finger style in an open D modal tuning (aDGAD), which is the same idea as Sawmil, but for D. We play it as a medley with another D modal tune called Child Grove.

Child Grove/Sally in the Garden

I have my three fnger version tabbed out, for anyone who is interested.

http://www.banjr.com/tablatures.htm





------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I don''t like to play it like he did. I try to play it the way I play it" - fiddler Lester McCumbers, interviewed by Erynn Marshall
Check out my webpage.

Earthstrider - Posted - 07/20/2009:  06:28:36


Thanks a million for this. I loved the tune as soon as I heard it, printed a copy of Mike Iverson's version and haven't stopped playing it since. Even 'her indoors' said "That's nice, not like that other stuff you usually play"......

Got Blisters on me Fingers!

jojo25 - Posted - 07/21/2009:  20:01:05


here's the link to my humble version

http://www.banjohangout.org/myhango....asp?id=5191



Don''t forget to play all of the quasihemidemisemiquavers!!
Drop thumbs, not bombs

Joe

chip arnold - Posted - 07/22/2009:  06:47:49


Nothin' "humble" about that Joe, Really good picking.

**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold

ZEPP - Posted - 07/29/2009:  12:12:44


Inspired, I was! Indeed, while I've heard this tune forever, I don't think I had ever played it.

So I figured it was time to learn it. I listened to a few fiddle recordings and just now recorded this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OETkpgjQ3cg

It's... umm... done on my wife's pink Goodtime...

Thanks for choosing this tune--I really do like it, and am glad it caught my attention!

Cheers,
ZEPP


Mark Johnson - Posted - 07/29/2009:  12:31:42


OOH! Zepp! That little diminished chord or whatever it was at about 0:53 is very sweet (the rest was of course very fine too), and will soon be very stolen. Yoink!

Joe, I'll have to try again later on yours, my feeble work speakers couldn't be cranked enough to make it out well enough. Sounds great from what I can hear.

Mark

Werner Von Clownhammer - Posted - 07/29/2009:  19:51:25


Don't forget R.D. Lunceford's version on "Drop Thumb". Tabbed in A modal(?)),
and played on the CD in "awesome".

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