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Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/138751
Banjophobic - Posted - 02/01/2009: 13:00:34
I had previously posted on another topic about using a metronome and decided to paste the reply here in this forum (see the previous "explaining the metronome use' thread, which I cleaned). There was some confusion about how I was using the metronome, so I decided to try again, hopefully making this thread much easier to understand. So, here we go, again.![]()
I'll start this discussion first with explaining durations. This is the music term for how long notes last. When looking at a piece of sheet music, for instance, the figured we see (often called 'golf clubs-haha) arent representing the notes in music, but rather the DURATION of a note. The notes themselves reside on the lines and spaces in the staff. In viewing modern tablature, we often see these same duration indication used above the fret numbers in the tab. So, to really get at the heart of what the metronome is doing for you in your practices, we need to make sure you understand how to count in music, and how to identify note durations.
The most basic form of counting in music is the idea that every beat has two main parts- DOWN and UP halves. Patting your foot to a tune is your body's attempt to get in line with this timing. Your foot taps the floor on the DOWN beat, and then rises to the UP beat. So, every BEAT you tap consists of DOWN/UP. This is a very basic concept but crucial to your understanding of how notes are played against this beat.
Next you need to be able to understand and identify how long notes last, to be able to place them in measures. The most common timing in music has 4 BEATS, as a self contained unit, if you will. This most common unit of timing is called, what else, 'COMMON TIME", also refered to '4/4'.
Since each individual beat in music has 2 parts/halves, then to COUNT , you would need a way to express it. We use numbers and letters together to identify the parts of the beat:
1 'and' (1 &)
1 is the downbeat and the "and' is the up beat. To play 4 of these as a unit, or MEASURE, we would repeat this process 4 times:
1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &
In common time, this equals ONE MEASURE...or unit of time.
This is also refered to as a TIMING SIGNATURE. There are many other signatures,or units of measure, besides 4/4. In Bluegrass and oldtime styles of music 4/4 is THE most common, and then 3/4 (aka 'waltz time') and 2/4 ('cut time") and sometimes celtic tunes in 6/8 (jig time).
Since 4/4 is the most common, thats a great place to start understanding how this counting works.
Now lets talk about how to identify how long a note lasts and what to call this DURATION. In music terminology, there have been names given for specific durations of notes. This is crticial to understand in the long run of grasping how to play anything IN TIME. Even if one doesnt know the theory names for these things we are discussing in this thread, its only an omission of nomencalture. You CANNOT be a good player without knowing how to count and identify note durations. you may not know the prper names of these ideas, but you must intuitively 'get it', to have attained good timing. If you dont either intuitively grasp this, or study it theoretically, or both, you wont be able to play in time, which means you wont be able to make songs cohesive and play with others.
So, what are the names of these differnt length notes? Here's a break down of the name of each and how long they last:
WHOLE NOTE
This is the longest single note in music. It lasts 4 BEATS. So if you were to play a "D" note on the banjo, you would strike this note and let it ring out for 4 BEATS:
1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &
HALF NOTE
This is the nect longest duration. If we cut that big whloe note into 2 even pieces, we get halves, right? So, if the whloe note lasts 4 beats, and we cut that into 2 pieces, each half would last 2 BEATS. We could then play that "D" note TWO times, letting each note last 2 BEATS:
1 & 2 &.......1 & 2 &
QUARTER NOTES
This is the next duration. If we took that big whole note, and divided it up into 4 equal pieces, we would have 4 notes , each lasting 1 BEAT. So, to play that "D" note again, we can play 4 of them, each lasting 1 BEAT:
1 &...................2 &........................3&...............4 &
8TH NOTES
This is the next duration. If we divided that whole note into 8 equal pieces, we would arrive at 8 notes, each lasting 1/2 BEAT. So, we could again use that "D" note for the example. We would then have 8 notes, each lasting 1/2 BEAT. This means playing 2 NOTES PER BEAT.
Many folks express banjo rolls as 8ths, as they flow in roll patterns. To grasp this, look the the beat count, and notes together:
1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &
note note note note note note note note
This is 8 NOTES, played against 4 BEATS. Since each and every BEAT in music has 2 halves, 8th notes would each last 1/2 beat. Think if all this as division. We started with the big whole note, and are cutting the notes in half each time (like slicing a pie). Each time you divide the notes, the time it takes to play the new duration gets smaller. This allows you to play more and more notes in the measure. Lets look at a common roll, in 8ths, as tabbed. I'll put the count underneath the tab. Here's a common forward rool pattern,321:
1------------------0-----------------0-----------------------
2-------------------------------------------------------------
3------------0-----------------0-----------------0----------
4-------------------------------------------------------------
5----0------------------0-------------------0----------------
___1____&___2____&___3____&___4___&_______
So, there are 8 notes of this roll, played against a measure.count of 4 BEATS. This means that in order to get this umber of notes in the measure, and have every note sound in TIME, each note must have the same time value. This works out nicely since each beat in the measure gets a down/up half. You just play one note per half beat.
16th NOTES
This is the next duration. This duration is a division of that original,big whole note. We've now cut the whole note into 16 pieces, each played against the beats in a measure. So, to play 16 nites on 4 BEATS, each note can only last 1/4 beat. This means that you would have to play 2 NOTES ON THE DOWN BEAT and 2 NOTES ON THE UP BEAT...4 notes oer one BEAT. Some rolls and licks in bluegrass banjo are 16th notes.
32 NOTES
This duration requires you to play 32 notes per 4 beats. This means that each note can only last 1/8 of a beat ! That big old whole note would last as long as 32 of these note durations. To play that many notes in 1 measure, you would have to play 4 NOTES ON THE DOWN and 4 NOTES ON THE UP. this amounts to playing 8 notes per 1 BEAT...4 beats X 8 notes = 32 notes.
there are other durations, like 64th and even 128th. Each one of these durations are 1/2 of the previous. Its very physicaly demaning to play 64ths at even a slow tempo, and darn near impossible at hi tempos, so I wouldnt worry about them in practice.
Each one of these durations Is represented by a figure, in classic music notation. These are the same we use above tab, to show the duration.time value of the notes, as played on the banjo. Here's a good graphic showing the notation graphic for each duration and how they relationship, up to 32nd notes. I couldnt figure out how to cut and paste it here, but this is the link:
http://img.quamut.com/chart/401/17d...ierarchy.jpg
Next, I'll show how to use the metronome to identify and practice, all these durations in 4/4 and 2/2( cut) time. Thanks-![]()
p.s There were some typos that Ive corrected...my proofreading skills are lacking sometimes,haha.
Edited by - Banjophobic on 02/01/2009 16:05:34
SJL - Posted - 02/01/2009: 14:59:24
Thanks John,
I am looking forward to hearing about 2/4. I an not sure of the differentiation between it and 4/4.
When using a metronome in 4/4, is it best to go click and click and click and click and or eight clicks?
"If the woman is alive at the end of the song, it ain''t Bluegrass".
2007 Hatfield Walnut Custom
1976 (?) Aria Pro Tree of Life
Banjocoltrane - Posted - 02/01/2009: 19:46:19
Just wanted to say I think this is a GREAT idea for a thread John. Too many beginners get a metronome and don't know what to do with it after they turn it on and sometimes its difficult getting them started. Looking forward to the installments
Thanks
Online Banjo, Guitar, Mandolin, and Music Theory Lessons available:
http://www.jodyhughesmusic.com
Edited by - Banjocoltrane on 02/01/2009 19:46:57
NC Picker - Posted - 02/01/2009: 20:07:34
This is how I align my playing with the metronome as simple as i can put it and thats a understatement when it come to this subject LOL !
Using 4/4 time in the example
For now no matter what speed you set the metronome were going to say that 4 of those metronome clicks is your 4 beats
If you pick a banjo string each time you hear a metronome click your playing Quarter Notes. "one measure"
If you pick a banjo string twice, (First when you hear a metronome click and before the next click your playing 8th Notes
If you pick a banjo string 4 times,( One when you hear a metronome click and three more picks of the string before the next click your playing 16th notes
This Banjo you speak of tell more
Edited by - NC Picker on 02/01/2009 20:20:17
DaveInCA - Posted - 02/01/2009: 20:23:50
Hey Gregg, all looks right to me, and I'd add that those 16th notes you are describing are our standard banjo roll notes--4 per click, as you said. And, if you insist on 4/4 time instead of the more usual 2/4, that's 4 beats (4 bass notes) and 16 banjo notes per measure. Looong measure. ;-) With 2/4, it's down to a more manageable 8 banjo notes per measure.
Dave
grannypicker - Posted - 02/01/2009: 20:42:34
Thank you so much. You cannot imagine how much I needed that and appreciate the help. I am new to music and the banjo and this whole timing thing is my biggest challenge. Without understanding it I can see I`ll never be able to play and I do love this banjo!! Thank you for your time and effort.
MoTomCat - Posted - 02/02/2009: 02:35:25
quote:
Originally posted by NC Picker
This is how I align my playing with the metronome as simple as i can put it and thats a understatement when it come to this subject LOL !
Using 4/4 time in the example
For now no matter what speed you set the metronome were going to say that 4 of those metronome clicks is your 4 beats
If you pick a banjo string each time you hear a metronome click your playing Quarter Notes. "one measure"
If you pick a banjo string twice, (First when you hear a metronome click and before the next click your playing 8th Notes
If you pick a banjo string 4 times,( One when you hear a metronome click and three more picks of the string before the next click your playing 16th notes
This Banjo you speak of tell more
DaveInCA - Posted - 02/02/2009: 06:48:43
>The speed of the metronome is the actual bpm speed you are playing when you use it in this way.
Yes, but only when playing four 16th notes per click, assuming standard rolls and a standard metronome (1 click per beat). If you slow down and play rolls at what Gregg is describing as 8th or quarter notes, you are playing the rolls at 1/2 or 1/4 (respectively) the speed indicated on the metronome.
Dave
Banjophobic - Posted - 02/02/2009: 07:25:39
quote:
Originally posted by NC Picker
This is how I align my playing with the metronome as simple as i can put it and thats a understatement when it come to this subject LOL !
Using 4/4 time in the example
For now no matter what speed you set the metronome were going to say that 4 of those metronome clicks is your 4 beats
If you pick a banjo string each time you hear a metronome click your playing Quarter Notes. "one measure"
If you pick a banjo string twice, (First when you hear a metronome click and before the next click your playing 8th Notes
If you pick a banjo string 4 times,( One when you hear a metronome click and three more picks of the string before the next click your playing 16th notes
This Banjo you speak of tell more
Greg
Great desription of how this works....no I dont have to write that next installment-haha. Good to see another Mt Airy picker posting.