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azh - Posted - 12/30/2008: 08:48:58
Hi everyone,
as you maybe don't know English is not my native language.
There's a question I've always tried to reply with my native languagewords, but with no succes.
What does the term "Breakdown" exactly means in the title of a tune (Foggy Muntain Breakdown, Dixie Breakdown, and so on)
It surely is something quite simple I guess
Thanks for helping answering this fundamental question
Hicham
http://banjobluegrass.free.fr
RONLD - Posted - 12/30/2008: 08:50:53
Fast bluegrass.........really !
Job 33:4 - Fitch fan #1
Kanticoy - Posted - 12/30/2008: 08:51:51
A breakdown is an upbeat instrumental track. Lots of times, you can hear them placed strategically in jam sessions as transitions....like if you were playing old joe clark, and then you would have a short breakdown leading into cripple creek. I'm sure that there are more various replies to this to follow, but that's the simple Webster's for kids definition!
"Music is a moral law. it gives soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination, and charm and gaiety to life and everything in it."
~Plato
Jaminbanjo - Posted - 12/30/2008: 08:57:50
A fast paced bluegrass instrumental song with multiple breaks.
Austin
hawksbill - Posted - 12/30/2008: 09:23:08
If I don't learn this piece, I'm going to have a "breakdown"....Another way to use the word, but very applicable.
HAWKSBILL
Banjoman - Posted - 12/30/2008: 09:24:20
The tune would also have to be in 2/4 or 4/4 time.
Hugh
Picking since 1964
“...Bobby Thompson? He is the future! He has this whole new style-you can hear the melody! ''Hard Hearted'' ''Dixie Hoedown!'' Oh my!”---John Updike
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gottasmilealot - Posted - 12/30/2008: 09:33:23
It's a tune that's played too fast for dance time, causing the dance to "break down".
Keith
Henny Youngman - "If at first you don''t succeed... so much for skydiving."
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Dale Farmer - Posted - 12/30/2008: 09:42:11
A breakdown is what my wife has when I play the same lick 300 times in a row.
Dale
dpete210 - Posted - 12/30/2008: 10:00:01
That was funny, Dale! 
Any day playing music is a GOOD day. 
KidfromDeliverance - Posted - 12/30/2008: 10:33:20
I think Keith's answer may be the most accurate; I heard or read a definition that it was a "broken down" dance tune. I was never sure what that meant, until now, maybe.
Brian Kreher - Posted - 12/30/2008: 10:48:04
I have often wondered this myself... my understanding of other musical pieces tells me there is a "reason" for the term breakdown. Just like there is a "reason" a tune is a REEL, a GIG, or even a POLKA, as in... St. Anne's Reel, or Morrison's Gig, Beer Barrel Polka...
Now, I understand these words correlate to a dance done respectively to the tune, but my GUESS here is the dance relates to the meter, tempo, etc. to the corresponding dance.
As for a breakdown, there is some questions remaining... the replies thus far have said, the tempo is too fast for dancing... yet, I have heard tunes called breakdowns that were played at very "dancible" speeds, to clarify, tempos you can dance to such as a reel, or a polka. So, I am still questioning what constitutes a "breakdown". Wikipedia says this:
"In bluegrass music, a break is a short instrumental solo played between sections of a song and is conventionally a variation on the song's melody. A breakdown is an instrumental form that features a series of breaks, each played by a different instrument. Examples of the form are "Bluegrass Breakdown" by Bill Monroe as well as "Earl's Breakdown" and "Foggy Mountain Breakdown", both of which were written by Earl Scruggs."
I know that my reply doesn't help your (or my own) understanding of what a true "breakdown" is but maybe it can help others understand where the questions of "what constitutes a breakdown"....
hope some one can clarify...
thanks,
brian
Dale Farmer - Posted - 12/30/2008: 12:45:49
If a breakdown is only a "fast" song then beginners should call it Foggy Mountain until they get up to say.. 120 bpm then they can add the word "breakdown".
A comment on Brian's post that a short solo in bluegrass is called a break... That always confused me. During a jam whoever was leading would look at me and say "take a break." He wanted me to play, when it sounds like he wants me to quit and get a cup of coffee or something... I thought I figured it out that - the break was what the singer was taking while I played it, thus, play the break, not take it...
I'll bet Foggy Mountain Breakdown was originally a song about a car that broke down on Foggy Mountain. Earl's Breakdown was about a nervous condition and the word breakdown actually has nothing to do with music itself... Others that thought it did named their tunes breakdowns...
Dale
steve davis - Posted - 12/30/2008: 13:52:47
A break is a short instrumental solo.
A breakdown is an instrumental form that features a series of breaks.
7ball
Bob Miller - Posted - 12/30/2008: 15:02:40
The beginners could call it the "Foggy Mountain Slowdown"......
I always thought a Breakdown was an instrumental piece with the banjo as the predominant instrument. A Hoedown is the same for a Fiddle. A Hornpipe for the Mandolin....... That's probably wrong but that's the way I thought it worked out.......
quote:
Originally posted by Dale Farmer
If a breakdown is only a "fast" song then beginners should call it Foggy Mountain until they get up to say.. 120 bpm then they can add the word "breakdown".
A comment on Brian's post that a short solo in bluegrass is called a break... That always confused me. During a jam whoever was leading would look at me and say "take a break." He wanted me to play, when it sounds like he wants me to quit and get a cup of coffee or something... I thought I figured it out that - the break was what the singer was taking while I played it, thus, play the break, not take it...
I'll bet Foggy Mountain Breakdown was originally a song about a car that broke down on Foggy Mountain. Earl's Breakdown was about a nervous condition and the word breakdown actually has nothing to do with music itself... Others that thought it did named their tunes breakdowns...
Dale
Bob Miller
"If this ain''t bluegrass, grits ain''t groceries"
Jayme Stone - Posted - 12/30/2008: 16:04:34
bill monroe used to explain that there were traditionally four kinds of tunes played at barn dances: reels, hornpipes, waltzes and breakdowns. the breakdowns were (as keith noted earlier) too fast to dance to and therefore used to "break down" the dance floor, marking the end of a set or the end of the night.
i learned this from peter rowan who brought it up to illustrate that younger musicians often play fiddle tunes too fast, losing touch with the original intent of having different dance forms for different purposes.
i've been thinking a lot about this in relation to bach's music, which is often based on dance forms. when he composed suites, sonatas and partitas, each movement was based on a dance form: allemande, courante, sarabande, air, gigue, etc... note that "gigue" is the germanization of the word "jig". in bach's time, his audiences would have recognized the dance rhythms at the heart of his brilliant writing, just as audiences knew the popular tunes that jazz musicians would improvise on in the bebop era. some of the context is lost on modern listeners.
boy, music is so fascinating...
J
www.jaymestone.com
www.woodhallmusic.com
Edited by - Jayme Stone on 12/30/2008 22:27:40
pstroud1 - Posted - 12/30/2008: 16:18:45
I think the term breakdown is a derivative of the old fiddle tune hoedown.
1. It's wicked fast
2. It's wicked difficult
3. It gives you a wicked head ache
4. It gives you a wicked nervous breakdown.
Paul
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I''ve Gone the Last Mile of the Way
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1 Peter 5:7
Casting all your care upon Him;
for He careth for you.
BanjoDuster - Posted - 12/30/2008: 16:26:42
IMHO, it would be silly not to call a song by its name just because the person playing or learning to play that song (e.g., FMB) wasn't playing it up to commonly played tempo. Stated another way, even though the person who wrote (created) the song called it a breakdown, doesn't mean that it's no longer called that when played by others at less than breakdown speed.
Ted
''IN GOD WE TRUST''
________________________
Edited by - BanjoDuster on 12/30/2008 16:37:41
KidfromDeliverance - Posted - 12/30/2008: 16:26:43
quote:
boy, music is so fascinating...
You said it, brother. I'd love it if they offered something like a "History of Bluegrass" class at a festival or one of these banjo camps. Maybe we should get a petition going . . .
gottasmilealot - Posted - 12/30/2008: 16:49:58
That was related to me by an old fiddler who played many barn dances over the years. His explanation was that the musicians were not there so much as a show themselves like one might see today at bluegrass venues or jams, but rather as music specifically for the dancers. The musicians were expected to play music at dance tempo. Like was mentioned above, he would typically go off on a tear as the last tune of the evening. It signals the end, wears him out, the other musicians know it's the end, and people can't really dance anymore.
The band function was described to me as being similar to the small band at a circus that in itself was not usually the center of attention, but fulfilled the function of playing music at a tempo to fit the event taking place at the moment. We're talking of an era before my time where dances with old time music were the Saturday night entertainment in our pre-radio and TV history, An era that predated "Foggy Mountain Breakdown". A banjo was more of a rhythm setting instrument in that setting with the fiddle playing melody.
Makes sense to me, but I'm just a banjo picker in modern suburbia.
Keith
Henny Youngman - "If at first you don''t succeed... so much for skydiving."
Banjo Hangout Rules and Guidelines.
Brian Kreher - Posted - 12/30/2008: 21:42:05
I think Jayme helped me... thanks man!
-b
Edited by - Brian Kreher on 12/30/2008 21:45:18
goldtopia - Posted - 12/31/2008: 02:15:17
Well, I'm English and never really understood why the word breakdown was used. I just accepted it as one of those American ways of describing things. A breakdown in England can be a broken down vehicle or a mental breakdown. Or it could be the disassembling of mechanical parts. I started playing when I was 17 .I am now 66 and have noticed many changes in the way things are described. We use to call the head the vellum which was a skin vellum but now is plastic and now is called a plastic head instead of plastic vellum. Also a flat pick is what we call a plectrum, but is now becoming commonplace among our youth to use American terms which can be annoying to some of the older generation. I have no real objections to it but I can understand it.
Bill.O
speedtheplow - Posted - 12/31/2008: 03:10:11
Are there Old Time breakdowns?
Dave
kallekockum - Posted - 12/31/2008: 03:18:34
quote:
Originally posted by ProfessorBanjo
Have you ever owned an MG?
Kalle Kockum, Sweden
I wish I was as cool as Levon Helm...
pick1936 - Posted - 12/31/2008: 03:58:55
Also what about Hoedown??
Nechville. In Higginsville.
pick the banjer son.
Lee Kelso
goldtopia - Posted - 12/31/2008: 05:56:45
Yes, well, hoedown is American. I don't know what a hoedown is, sounds like something to do with the way you use a hoe.
Bill.O
flange5st - Posted - 12/31/2008: 06:34:14
..........a" breakdown" is a tune that's designed to let the individual, whether a dancer or musician, interpret the song in their own style.......when you play for a square dance, some call it a quadrille, it is danced a certain way by the dance "caller" and at a certain tempo also chosen and maintained by the caller.......when you do a breakdown, you just " break down", ( as we say around this section of the woods), and give it your all......I've played Sally Goodin' for a dance and at the end just rip into it and seen folks dance like a free for all.......some of the best dancing and picking you'll get to see and hear are during these times..IMHO.........a "hoedown" is a dance party because you have gathered to party and not to work...ie.. you put you hoe down.......hoe, the thing you dig in the ground with.. and over time the term has been used to discribe a happy " up-medium" timed melody.......and a "special" is a melody designed for a certain musician and their instrument that shows off it's own character..........this is the way I understand these terms and I'm sure that there are alot more learned folk's who can give a better definition/ discription than me, too.............good thread....peace
.........difficile est tenere quae acceperis nisi exerceas...........
Edited by - flange5st on 12/31/2008 11:48:43
steve davis - Posted - 12/31/2008: 07:29:47
Putting the hoe down so you can party sounds right.
Around here it's a ropedown...
7ball
John Allison - Posted - 12/31/2008: 08:11:30
Danny,
That was also my understanding of "breakdown". I had a good friend who was a square dance caller and he often referred to a dance set as a "breakdown" and, while many sat down, the remaining dances seemed to do their own thing. Fun to watch.
Froggie
"Courage is Fear that has said its prayers.
Hillbilly Bill - Posted - 12/31/2008: 11:59:53
During a jam whoever was leading would look at me and say "take a break." He wanted me to play, when it sounds like he wants me to quit and get a cup of coffee or something... I thought I figured it out that - the break was what the singer was taking while I played it, thus, play the break, not take it...
Dale
[/quote]
That made me laugh!!
Fishrrman - Posted - 12/31/2008: 16:50:53
I recall reading somewhere many years ago (perhaps it was in Pete Seeger's "How To Play The 5-String Banjo") that a breakdown was an instrumental played at a rapid and powerful pace until the players literally "broke down" and couldn't play anymore. Until they literally ran out of notes.
As good an explanation as any, I guess...
- John
Kstevensmd - Posted - 12/31/2008: 21:29:42
I have heard that a breakdown is a tune wth no typical part A and part B. The "breakdown" is just played over and over with variations, or "breaks"
Happy New Year!
Ken Stevens
goldtopia - Posted - 01/01/2009: 00:57:39
So really, Earls Breakdown and Foggy Mountain Breakdown are not really breakdowns at all, they are just called that.
Bill.O
azh - Posted - 01/01/2009: 10:47:24
Well,
Lots of replies, thank you it make it a little more clear of what is called a breakdown.
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL.
HAVE A GREAT YEAR!
Regards
Hicham
http://banjobluegrass.free.fr
Edited by - azh on 01/01/2009 10:48:26
Cornflake - Posted - 01/01/2009: 11:18:36
I'm going to suggest to the contra dance band I paly in that we play FMB at dance speed. Or maybe make a walz or a jig out of it. That should be interesting.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It takes a village to tune a banjo
Brian Kreher - Posted - 01/01/2009: 19:56:43
quote:
Originally posted by Kstevensmd
I have heard that a breakdown is a tune wth no typical part A and part B. The "breakdown" is just played over and over with variations, or "breaks"
Happy New Year!
Ken Stevens
Lots of interesting replies here. This one made the "lights come on..." meaning, I thought, well, dang, that makes sense. Immediately thinking of FMB, Earl's breakdown, but then I thought of Shenandoah Breakdown... seemed to through a wrench in it...
I liked the other comment about making breakdowns into gigs, or reels, could be interesting to do FMB in 6/8 time!
Sandy Rothman - Posted - 01/01/2009: 22:08:30
quote:
bill monroe used to explain that there were traditionally four kinds of tunes played at barn dances: reels, hornpipes, waltzes and breakdowns.
I heard Bill mention others...like the schottische and polka. He knew all the various types and could demonstrate them on the mandolin.
Somebody asked if there were oldtime breakdowns. Yes, definitely. There are references to the term related to African American jig-dances and tunes dating from the nineteenth century. Folklorist and fiddler Richard Blaustein knows of a printed source dated 1873.
banjofanatico - Posted - 01/03/2009: 15:26:17
It has to do with emulating a fast-moving train on the banjo, which is actually moving too fast and jumps the tracks ("breakdown");
David
Sandy Rothman - Posted - 01/03/2009: 17:31:20
If anybody's interested in fiddler/folklorist Richard Blaustein's sources, I'll be glad to be the sourcer's apprentice and FWD some of his research breaking down the breakdown. Email me at sandyrothman@sbcglobal.net.
azh - Posted - 01/08/2009: 12:56:59
quote:
Originally posted by Sandy Rothman
If anybody's interested in fiddler/folklorist Richard Blaustein's sources, I'll be glad to be the sourcer's apprentice and FWD some of his research breaking down the breakdown. Email me at sandyrothman@sbcglobal.net.
Thank you Sandy,
I received your mail, didn't read it yet (been busy)
I would like to thank everyone who contributed this thread
Regards
Hicham
http://banjobluegrass.free.fr
