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ZEPP - Posted - 10/09/2008: 07:11:59
The following musings are brought to mind by the current thread about"Voice" in the Clawhammer/OT section:
When I was first getting into what is now called Old Time music, I used to marvel at the field recordings of many "old timers." I found that their playing was frequently arhythmic, their instruments out of tune, and their singing scratchy and...well...bad. That's not to say unenjoyable, but just technically bad.
But still I liked it. And them.
However, when I listened to recordings of myself singing, I heard the thin, inexperienced voice of a teenager trying too hard. Granted, I was a first tenor in all the singing groups in school : mixed chorus, choir, barbershop quartet, men's glee club, etc., and actually had some success--I made it to South Jersey Chorus, but missed All-State by 1 measly point out of 100.
Still, that voice I was hearing just didn't fit with the music I liked. So I began to avoid singing.
Over the years, in all the bands I was in, I tried to avoid singing--I would join in on choruses occasionally, and would always sing at least one song per set, but it was never "my thing."
When I stopped playing in bands 26 years ago, I stopped singing pretty much altogether, still not liking the sound of my voice.
But, it now dawns on me: I am 63 now, and this summer's heart surgery has reinforced in me the notion that I may not qualify for an exemption from mortality after all. Thus my question:
Am I now old enough to qualify as an "old timer," such that no matter how badly I play and sing, all is forgiven, or do I need another decade or so of decay and organ failure before my lack of skills can be passed off as "authentic?"
I mean, seriously, when will I be old enough? 
Cheers,
ZEPP
George Flink - Posted - 10/09/2008: 07:21:55
The question IMO is Who is your audience. Hopefully iit is you, and you get to decide.
chip arnold - Posted - 10/09/2008: 07:29:03
Zepp, you're OLD! Okay, you're not as old as dirt but you're older than lots of trees and most members of other mammal species. So I say sing. Hell, all my dogs have been singers and none of them ever lived to be near as old as you. besides, you're probably a whole lot better than you let on.
**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken
Chip Arnold
tom clunie - Posted - 10/09/2008: 07:33:09
Well if youth is 0-30 and middle age is 30-60, and old age is 60 on, you have officially passed on over to oldfartdom and no longer need anyone's approval, permission, or condolences to say or do anything you want, period. There may be consequences but it's totally your own ship now and what we think of you is now no longer any of your business (even if we think you are great!). So, blessings on your new journey and we are still waiting for your upcoming CD with LOTS of singing on it! Cheers! TC
maxmax - Posted - 10/09/2008: 07:35:46
Sorry Zepp, your playing is way to good and technical for a not perfect voice. Think you have to wait for your fingers to slow down a bit first.
Max
Dale Farmer - Posted - 10/09/2008: 07:36:09
There are so many BAD singers out there that don't know they are bad and I really feel sorry for them when they perform. They are thinking "man, I'm good" while the audience is thinking "crap, that person can't sing a lick." By bad I mean they have pitch and timing issues. I think that if you have good pitch and timing and just a bad voice (like me for instance) you can get by, especially in "roots" type music. Maybe you need a style that makes it look like you sound the way you do on purpose. This is the prinicpal that I've been trying unsuccessfully to convince myself of for years. I say go for it and maybe I will too some day when I"M old enough. Let us know if you figure that one out...
Dale
slabounty - Posted - 10/09/2008: 07:51:54
Yep, you should be good to go now. I've still got another 8-9 years before I'll be allowed to sing in public though.
Scott LaBounty
Orange, CA
trapdoor2 - Posted - 10/09/2008: 08:06:21
Yer old enough to sing when you stop worrying about what you sound like and just let the songs in you come out. You obviously ain't there yet...and neither am I. 
I can carry a tune (if the bucket don't leak) but I worry about what I sound like to others...and like much of the world, I don't like what I sound like on a recording.
Short answer: you're old enough now. Or now. Or even NOW.
===Marc
"If banjos needed tone rings, S.S. Stewart would have made them that way."
KE - Posted - 10/09/2008: 08:55:30
Sing with our blessings -- in the shower.
Seriously, you've got a little one at home, and it would be unconscionable if you were not to fill the house with your voice.
tom howlett - Posted - 10/09/2008: 09:08:40
the woods would be a mighty quiet place if only the best birds sang.
guitdawg - Posted - 10/09/2008: 10:00:59
Be carefull fellow Hangouters!- I think he is serious. He may start singing outside of his lessons, and I have heard him sing....
the latest former employee of Zepp Country Music...
~marc
Apple Latch Un = mountains ; Apple Layshun = drinks
ZEPP - Posted - 10/09/2008: 10:41:10
quote:
Originally posted by guitdawg
the latest former employee of Zepp Country Music...
Wait... I thought I fired you last week. And at least twice the week before...
Cheers,
ZEPP
Jonnycake White - Posted - 10/09/2008: 11:04:34
Aw c'mon - everyone hates the sound of their own voice when they hear a recording - that's because the sound waves have to travel through the air instead of through bone to get to the ear, and it just sounds so different that what you hear in your head. Go ahead and sing whenever and wherever you want to.
Jon W.
"I may be inexperienced but at least I''m opinionated"
jgwoods - Posted - 10/09/2008: 11:59:30
Well if you look like an old hippie go ahead and sing- Gerry Garcia thought he could, why not you?
If you dress young, drive an SUV, wear running shoes, and drink wine....perhaps you should shut up.
If you look like an old banjo player- sing to your hearts content without regard for how it sounds to anyone.
Be yourself- everyone else is taken
maryzcox - Posted - 10/09/2008: 13:01:20
Hey Zepp,
Know exactly how you feel--I, too, had given up on singing--although I really like to sing--but it seemed that if you didn't sound like Allison Krause or Emmy Lou Harris (in her younger days)--no one encouraged you to sing.
But--then, Bob and I started booking concerts--and hey! You just can't put on an entertaining two set concert without a few vocals.
Bob felt he could go to his grave without having to sing in public--so guess who was it?
The last two summers I've been taking week long vocal clinics at Swananoah--and Sioban Finn--the vocal instructor is great. She just encourages you to sound like the best version of yourself you can be--and doesn't encourage you to copy the big names--and I finally feel comfortable singing.
There is a book you may enjoy--it is called "The Contemporary Singer:elements of vocal technique" by Anne Peckham. It has a CD with vocal exercises and it is from the Berklee School of Music.
If you do the exercises--you will build up your voice without stripping it.
I think you will find that since you have not been singing for years--that you also have not damaged your voice from oversinging.
Most of the big name singers in your age group have most likely damaged or lost their voices at this point--so you will be on a level playing field with other singers in your age group.
Don't be afraid--I think you will find that your friends and family will all be delighted to hear "your voice." Hey--you even have that fine new son to sing to sleep and practice on.
Best wishes,
Mary Z. Cox
www.maryzcox.com
If you suspect you need a new banjo--you do. Trust your musical instincts. If a banjo calls to you to buy it, don''t fight destiny. It was meant to be. :)
Edited by - maryzcox on 10/09/2008 13:02:54
Roy Smith - Posted - 10/09/2008: 13:17:27
Zepp, for crying out loud, I sing in public and I'm deaf. My underlying assumption is that if my singing really bothers other people, they'll stop me, perhaps forcibly. (Hasn't happened yet, but maybe only because I'm bigger than most of them.) And as further proof of my unconcern for my fellow humans, even in the bygone days when I could hear I was no vocal genius.
You, on the other hand, have actual credentials (or would, except for that one point loss, no doubt because of biased judging!). And you're likely one of the few guys out there who can actually sing songs in the key of A. So the real question is: Are you old enough to have finally lost the last shreds of your dignity? Obviously I am, and IMHO you are too.
Roy
Roy Smith - Posted - 10/09/2008: 13:20:31
Oh, one more thing. You probably saw J&J's jam invitation earlier today. I've declined it for reasons of extreme end-of-week tiredness, but if you'll come and sing I'll drag my sorry vocal chords over there and yowl along with you.
Roy
Trashbanjo - Posted - 10/09/2008: 13:34:44
If Garrison Keillor can get away with singing, anyone can.Go for it.
"Ive never seen a bad live performance,
just some better than others"!
Mark
Mark Johnson - Posted - 10/09/2008: 13:39:18
Maybe the you have the causation wrong? Try this:
1) Tune your banjo
2) Arbitrarily adjust each knob
3) Start playing
4) Speed up and slow down all willy nilly [it may help to tap your foot or use a metronome to make sure you're off time]
5) Start yelling about mules and corn liquor
My thought is maybe that authentic old timey voice is not a product of merely age, but part of the whole package. If you practice all of those playing traits (and drink corn liquor as often as you sing about it) I suspect you will reach the level of gruff authentic nastiness in your voice that you strive for.
As for the somewhat separate issue of whether you are old enough to be generally authentic and be praised despite a lack of skill, I think you screwed up years ago by having skill. And lots of it. I'm very sorry.
Mark
Edited by - Mark Johnson on 10/09/2008 13:40:40
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 10/09/2008: 14:52:58
I always had to do the singing because everyone else was afraid to. I have always hated the sound of my own voice - even live. Fortunately for me my wind is giving out and most fo the time I can't sing any.
How does this relate to you, Zepp? We are the same age - that's about it. Hey, if you're going to ruminate I'm going to ruminate - it's the oldster's way.
I remember now I was walking with my guitar down Haight Street one day and I met Old Man Jer Garcia. He took my guitar and put it in this tuning. I'd never heard a guitar tuned like that before, but he gave me a couple of mushrooms and eventually it sounded pretty good. So he showed me this here tune called......
If you are interested in what I say and would like to know more, it ony cost the price of an email. Write me at:
oldwoodchuckb@yahoo.com
and I will send you a copy of the entire Rocket Science Banjo with all the text now in PDF, plus all the exercise tabs and jpgs as well as "25 tunes" (which is now up to about 38) in banjo tab, playable with the MIDI built into your computer, so you can play along at whatever speed you choose to set.
put RSB in the subject line.
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bluemule_77 - Posted - 10/09/2008: 15:48:16
At times, I've sung where others could hear me. Usually it was in hour 5 of a 4-hour party somewhere. People claim to like it. They encourage that I do it more often. But unless my inhibitions have been diluted, I can't get the first note out. We'll play through "Sugar Hill," i.e., 7 or 8 times and each time I think, "C'mon... launch into it...," but I have this idea that the first sound I produce will be horribly out of tune. Finally, the fiddler's foot signals "enough" and I've not issued a single verse. But I'm in my very early 30s... so I have time.
BM
