Banjo75 - Posted - 10/04/2008:  21:09:23

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do you fellow frailers play in C or G? I have switched over to G because it just seems easier to play more songs but somewhere I read that C was the "standard" tuning. Which do you play and why?


This machine surrounds hate and forces it to surrender.
Playing folk on my banjo since 2008.

brokenstrings - Posted - 10/04/2008:  21:17:17

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Most frailers use several tunings. G and CC (often capo'd up to A and DD to oblige fiddlers) seem to be more popular than C. One of our members swears by "old G"--others like sawmill for modal tunes--for a few songs there's graveyard (aka Reuben tuning aka open D) tuning--and there are specialized tunings such as the Gibson/Shelton tuning for "Darlin' Corey (CCC or DDD) and a number of Dock Boggs's tunings.

Jessy

Frailaway, ladies, frailaway!

Banjo75 - Posted - 10/04/2008:  21:22:01

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yikes... that is all going to make my head explode (thanks for the response). What would you recommend for beginners?


This machine surrounds hate and forces it to surrender.
Playing folk on my banjo since 2008.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/04/2008:  22:02:37

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It really depends on what you want to play. If you want to play old-time fiddle tunes, get Dan Levenson's book [i]Clawhammer Banjo from Scratch[i] and learn Double-C tuning to play capoed up two frets in D, where the majority of fiddle tunes falls. For general playing, G is easier I think. For singing, use whichever suits your voice better. I play in 8 tunings, but mostly in G and standard C. If you play fiddle tunes most will be in A and D--for which most players use G and double-C tunings capoed at the second fret.

Bill

Banjo75 - Posted - 10/04/2008:  22:20:27

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er, singing... if I sing... people will call the cops. Luckily my wife plays guitar and folk songs so I can play along with her and she can sing.


This machine surrounds hate and forces it to surrender.
Playing folk on my banjo since 2008.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/04/2008:  22:22:52

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My singing's the same. You'll probably want to at least learn the tunings best suited for the keys your wife prefers to sing in.

Bill

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 10/05/2008:  01:58:30

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quote:

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Originally posted by Banjo75
Luckily my wife plays guitar and folk songs so I can play along with her and she can sing.

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If we are talking chordal banjo accompaniment, gCGBD might be a good all-purpose tuning. You can get the keys of C and G quite handily, and a capo will increase the number of keys you can cover.

If you are going more of a stock clawhammer route, I would recommend
gDGBD for G and gCGCD for C. A capo at the 2nd fret will give you A and D as well.

R.D. Lunceford- "Missourian in Exile"
Model 1865 Bowlin Fretless Banjo
****************************************************
"Drink from the Musselfork once, and you''ll
always come back." -Dr. Bondurant Hughes, 1917

tombriarhopper - Posted - 10/05/2008:  04:02:44

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I like C-modal tuning.

Briarhopper

BANJOJUDY - Posted - 10/05/2008:  05:12:11

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quote:

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Originally posted by Banjo75

do you fellow frailers play in C or G? I have switched over to G because it just seems easier to play more songs but somewhere I read that C was the "standard" tuning. Which do you play and why?


This machine surrounds hate and forces it to surrender.
Playing folk on my banjo since 2008.

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Open G tuning is easier to use to accompany many bluegrass tunes which tend to use three chords (G, D, C). You can capo up two and play in A. Easy to learn when getting started.

But, to really get the clawhammer sounding the way I like it, I prefer modal tunings such as A modal, and also playing out of double D tuning.

You need to figure out what you really want to play. Old-time music has some standard keys. You won't find folks playing Spotted Pony in open G - gotta do double D for that one.

THe more your play, the more varied your tunings will become. I still don't do "F" tunes.

+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_
Have you visited the Tune of The Week area
for clawhammer players? Check it out on The
Banjo Hangout! Volunteer to do a tune for
October by emailing me at inquiry@siliconheights.com.

jamie_t123 - Posted - 10/05/2008:  05:16:00

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If you are going to play with other's...ie: banjo, guitar, fiddle etc....I'd suggest G.....it just makes things easier for everyone in a group setting..but if it's just you, then whatever pleases your ear and style....

Never get between a Woman and her Banjo!

chip arnold - Posted - 10/05/2008:  05:52:44

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The point is that unlike most bluegrass pickers, Old Time banjo players tune differently to play in different keys. There are good reasons for this having to do with both sound and ease of playing. Old time players usually stay in one key for a while before changing to another so the banjo player(s) don't have to re-tune constantly. Old Time fiddlers often use several different tunings as well. Songs may be in whatever key fits the singer but tunes generally have their own traditional keys and you'll need to learn them in that key and with the appropriate tuning. Yes it is possible to play every key out of one tuning and some folks do that. But you'll lose a lot of the flavor of the tunes if you do. Learning to play in a few seperate tunings is really no more difficult than learning different keys in one tuning and it'll open up a whole world of banjo fun for you. Best to do as others have suggested and learn at least gCGCD and gDGBD for C & G. Capo at the second fret for D & A. When you capo up, you'll have to run your 5th string up the same amount or capo it if you have a 5th string capo or railroad spike.

**********************
Take what is given
Give what is taken

Chip Arnold

carlb - Posted - 10/05/2008:  06:51:11

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quote:

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Originally posted by Banjo75

= What would you recommend for beginners?

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In the days when I was a beginner, the first decision I made about my banjo was that I didn't like the sound with a capo on. It was muted. As a result I tuned my banjo so that I could play in double D without a capo. I then discovered the G and C tunings that I continue to use to the present day. For G (gDGDE), I tested to see what G tunes I could play in that tuning and only rarely have I found one that I couldn't create a setting for (As an aside, I play G/D tunes out of double D). For C, I use open C (gCGCE) and have found for some tunes really neat right hand riffs which use the 5th string as a melody note and require less left hand fingering. They are fun (e.g. the 1st part of Rock Pallet).

Carl

"Just around the corner is someone who plays better than you....." "There will always be someone who likes your music and someone who dislikes your music. Get over it......." [Dan Haerle, former music prof at University of North Texas]

Bill Rogers - Posted - 10/05/2008:  10:48:15

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I'll elaborate on my posts--Pete Seeger has no peer at accompanying "folk" singing on banjo. [If] that's what you want to do, he's the one to emulate, choosing the first tuning you focus on based on the singing keys you need. I suggested Mike Iverson's site because he's a singer and not a mostly instrumental banjo player.

Bill

Emiel - Posted - 10/05/2008:  11:25:34

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All these tunings do not exist to make life more complicated for you, they are there to make it easier to play a certain tune and sounding more authentic. The tuning you use will depend on the song you play.

Emiel

http://www.flickr.com/photos/emieldk/
http://www.bluerounders.com

Clawdan - Posted - 10/05/2008:  11:42:22

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quote:

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Originally posted by Banjo75

yikes... that is all going to make my head explode (thanks for the response). What would you recommend for beginners?

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I'll chime in here. First 75, it is early in your banjoing to be able to be sure which way you will go in the long run and I find most folks want to both sing songs AND play tunes, and as I just mentioned in another similar thread the tools to do both are the same.

To the question, most folks sing in C or D and most (largest volume) of fiddle tunes are in the key of D. Which is why I decided to use CC/DD in writing Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch. That is the key that folks can get "up and running" in quickest.

In the long run you will need multiple tunings and rhythmic textures in order to play any type of music.

My immediate response would be to say you need to learn the basics in any case so why get overly concerned about which key, no matter which one you pick, if you get the basics your goal is to learn to play. Once you really do have those basic tools, it is not much to change keys as you find a tune or song to learn when it is time.

Even after over 25 years focusing on the instrument and style, I find myself playing out of CC/DD tuning more often than any other tuning.

Play nice ,
Dan "Ain''t no bum-ditty" Levenson
www.ClawhammerBanjo.us
Get started right with Dan''s Clawhammer Banjo From Scratch - Book and DVD (Mel Bay Publications)

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 10/05/2008:  13:25:34

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Rocket Science Banjo is free, has about 10 singing songs plus about 35 banjo tunes - many with words, and covers ALL the main tunings
including a group of tuines written in both standard G and old G for comparison. The address is below

If you are interested in what I say and would like to know more, it ony cost the price of an email. Write me at:
oldwoodchuckb@yahoo.com
and I will send you a copy of the entire Rocket Science Banjo with all the text now in PDF, plus all the exercise tabs and jpgs as well as "25 tunes" (which is now up to about 38) in banjo tab, playable with the MIDI built into your computer, so you can play along at whatever speed you choose to set.
put RSB in the subject line.
I neither keep nor re-use your email

You can watch the videos for some Rocket Science Banjo subjects starting here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdRuf4X0X7g
Banjo Brad is hosting How To Mold A Mighty Pinky adn other material at
http://home.thegrid.net/~fjbrad/id20.html

pete hobbie - Posted - 10/05/2008:  13:48:04

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I started out in "standerd" G tuning and I would always be capoed up to play with the local fiddles then just took of the capo and cranked up the tuners and decided I liked the feel of the added tension on the strings for both tone and control . thats just my take on it tho.


pete

Things are more the way they are now than they''ve ever been.

Banjo75 - Posted - 10/05/2008:  16:02:48

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lots to ponder here. I plan on doing the Pete Seeger play along with the song routine (without the singing... where is Tao when I need him?) and let my wife sing the words. I fiddle around with some Dylan from time to time which leads me to G for now and I can learn C as well. Right now... I have 1 book and 1 video in "G" and Pete Seeger in "C". So I might bounce back and forth. Finally fully got the basic bum ditty down. Once I get locked in with the chord chances and having my finger bouncing off whatever string I want it will be on to hammer-ons and pull-offs and then over to Seeger's book for some double thumbing. Man, this is fun!


This machine surrounds hate and forces it to surrender.
Playing folk on my banjo since 2008.

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Edited by - Banjo75 on 10/05/2008 16:03:16

vernob - Posted - 10/06/2008:  04:08:56

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Do you want to play chordal backup or the melody? That's the question. If you've come from guitar, you'll play the chords. Use gDGBD. Once you start playing the melodies of tunes, you'll find yourself getting interested in other tunings.

Bruce Vernon

"A gentleman is a man who knows how to play the banjo, but chooses not to." - Mark Twain

"Don''t worry about mistakes. There aren''t any." - Miles Davis

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 10/06/2008:  09:03:23

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The thing to remember is that the tunings are tools, and as Emiel said,
they are here to make life easier. The tunings exist for our convenience, not we for theirs.

You're the player, the banjo is the instrument. Make it do what you want!!!

R.D. Lunceford- "Missourian in Exile"
Model 1865 Bowlin Fretless Banjo
****************************************************
"Drink from the Musselfork once, and you''ll
always come back." -Dr. Bondurant Hughes, 1917

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Edited by - R.D. Lunceford on 10/06/2008 09:04:06

Banjo75 - Posted - 10/07/2008:  14:57:42

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I guess I will just pluck along with some chords. I actually had been learning bass when I stumbled on to banjo! Now I can't put the thing down.

I figured I could learn some chords and play along with some CDs or something.

This machine surrounds hate and forces it to surrender.
Playing folk on my banjo since 2008.

ZenPickin - Posted - 10/08/2008:  03:28:02

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QUOTE:

I guess I will just pluck along with some chords. I actually had been learning bass when I stumbled on to banjo! Now I can't put the thing down.

I figured I could learn some chords and play along with some CDs or something.

75, I had the exact same question a year ago when I started playing. My son is the guitar player, and I wanted to play along. So I started in G and didn't really "get" this alternate tuning thing. I learned the chords in G enough to sing songs and "play along". I learned the basic clawhammer technique in G.

Then one day when I had some time and was feeling adventurous, I retuned into double C. I had the tab in front of me for a tune I liked and I started working at it a little. Suddenly my clawhammer world opened up and I was thrilled with how interesting the sounds were and how easy it was.

Now, I pretty much live in double C (or, if capo'd, double D). About 30% of the time I'm in Sawmill tuning, and only rarely in G. I'm thinking it's getting to be time to learn yet another tuning and see where it takes me.

Start in G if you're comfortable there. But when you're feeling adventurous, and have a tune in mind to play in CC, go for it!!