tom clunie - Posted - 09/18/2008:  14:14:55

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What changes happened to the sound of your banjo when you replaced one of the plastic heads with a hide head? I got rid of a tubaphone with a hide head only because the neck was uncomfortable but it had a great sound that I miss. I haven't been around enough banjos to tell how much is the hide and how much is the rest of the banjo responsible for the sound. Recently I heard two White Laydies with hide heads and a great sound whereas the previous WLs I've heard with plastic heads sounded thin and tinny. I guess I like mellow notes but yet have a clear bell-like sound with distinct note seperation. Any thoughts on hide heads on wooden tone rings versus metal tone rings? Thanks! TC

krazykat - Posted - 09/18/2008:  14:51:34

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When I put a skin head on my 12" Tubaphone it really came alive. I'd had a Renaissance head on it previously, and it sounded pretty good, but the natural hide has a warmer, richer sound. The skin does tend to be sensitive to humidity, though - not always noticeable, but in very humid weather I do have to tighten it up.

KE - Posted - 09/18/2008:  19:51:06

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I put a calf skin head on my Reiter Regent (WL tonering) a couple of months ago. It had an Elite Fiberskin head. The calf skin made the trebles richer and the bass more powerful and rounded. The fourth string can be almost like firing off a cannon if you lay into it with a good strong fingernail. The calf skin also took some harshness out of the tone, that I would describe as a jangly shimmer.

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Edited by - KE on 09/18/2008 19:59:47

carlb - Posted - 09/19/2008:  07:47:23

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Years ago, I decided to go with hide heads over plastic for much the same reasons stated already. However, recently, I decided to handle the humidity problem by carrying three bridges, 1/2, 5/8, 11/16. When I put the head on originally, I set the tension, using an 11/ 16 bridge, on a really humid day so that it just didn't buzz and just dealt with the high action when the weather was drier. However, now I just change the bridge, which takes about a minute.

Carl

"Just around the corner is someone who plays better than you....." "There will always be someone who likes your music and someone who dislikes your music. Get over it......." [Dan Haerle, former music prof at University of North Texas]

banjo bill-e - Posted - 09/19/2008:  09:03:52

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KE, that is what I needed to hear. I have heard that a skin head will take the edge off of the treble, but what I need on my Ramsey Electric is more bass. My forth string just does not have the body that I would like. I have treble to spare, so a little rolling off would be fine with me as long as it does not sound dead and dull. Do you find a skin head any quieter as regard to the noise made striking the head with fingers or thumb, intentional or otherwise?

I''m trying for that "ragged, but right" sound. I''m half way there!

KE - Posted - 09/19/2008:  12:03:04

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quote:

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Originally posted by banjo bill-e

. . . Do you find a skin head any quieter as regard to the noise made striking the head with fingers or thumb, intentional or otherwise?

I''m trying for that "ragged, but right" sound. I''m half way there!

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The thump is about the same, but the scratch sound is perhaps less.

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 09/19/2008:  17:20:28

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None of the banjos I regularly play have anything but a hide head on them.
At the very least, they have a more complex tone than plastic.
If you're so inclined, my next suggestion would to try a set of Nylguts.

R.D. Lunceford- "Missourian in Exile"
Model 1865 Bowlin Fretless Banjo
****************************************************
"Drink from the Musselfork once, and you''ll
always come back." -Dr. Bondurant Hughes, 1917

rowdyboy - Posted - 09/20/2008:  11:26:38

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I just changed two plastics for Bill Miller skin heads. Both banjos are open back- one a Ramsey with Bacon tone ring and the other a Ramsey Tubaphone. Both sound better with the skins. It really is a subjective thing- what sounds best to your ears is what you should use. Remember skins were around for a long time before Remo. A lot of the recordings that inspired us to learn clawhammer and even early bluegrass was played on skins

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Edited by - rowdyboy on 09/20/2008 11:29:47

banjo bill-e - Posted - 09/20/2008:  13:09:59

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R.D. do you have a favorite type or source for skin heads. Calf or Goat? "Standard Processed, Vellum Processed, or Natural"? I know nothing about these, but I do know that you know tone.
K.E., which way did you go with the Miller head?


I''m trying for that "ragged, but right" sound. I''m half way there!

banjo bill-e - Posted - 09/20/2008:  13:11:05

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OOps, I see now that it was rowdyboy who bought the Millers. Anyway, I am open to advice on these heads from anyone.

I''m trying for that "ragged, but right" sound. I''m half way there!

KE - Posted - 09/20/2008:  14:13:43

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banjo bill-e, I did indeed use a Miller standard-processed pre-mounted calf skin head. I have installed unmounted skins on two other banjos (one a tack-head and the other a flesh hoop) with equally good results, but the pre-mounted sure made the job simple. At the time I put it on, I kind of regretted not thinking to order the vellum, but I am happy with the results as it stands.

Steve Donnelly - Posted - 09/20/2008:  17:35:58

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Where does one get Miller pre-mounted heads?

Thanks,



smd

KE - Posted - 09/20/2008:  18:19:56

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quote:

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Originally posted by Steve Donnelly

Where does one get Miller pre-mounted heads?

Thanks,



smd

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http://www.banjoseen.com/Store/index.html

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 09/20/2008:  20:31:52

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quote:

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Originally posted by banjo bill-e
R.D. do you have a favorite type or source for skin heads.

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Lately I've been using medium-thickness goatskin.
I've been getting them from a drum outfit over in Portland,
Oregon called African Rhythm Traders.

R.D. Lunceford- "Missourian in Exile"
Model 1865 Bowlin Fretless Banjo
****************************************************
"Drink from the Musselfork once, and you''ll
always come back." -Dr. Bondurant Hughes, 1917

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Edited by - R.D. Lunceford on 09/20/2008 20:32:22

vernob - Posted - 09/21/2008:  01:54:43

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Elderly Instruments has a good selection of natural skins for banjo heads. Gold Tone offers one pre-mounted.

Bruce Vernon

"A gentleman is a man who knows how to play the banjo, but chooses not to." - Mark Twain

"Don''t worry about mistakes. There aren''t any." - Miles Davis

Tackhead - Posted - 09/22/2008:  06:13:07

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quote:

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Originally posted by KE

banjo bill-e, I did indeed use a Miller standard-processed pre-mounted calf skin head. I have installed unmounted skins on two other banjos (one a tack-head and the other a flesh hoop) with equally good results, but the pre-mounted sure made the job simple. At the time I put it on, I kind of regretted not thinking to order the vellum, but I am happy with the results as it stands.

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Just curious--did you spray it with a waterproofer before installing as Bill suggests?

~John

John Flynn
Tallahassee, Florida
USA

KE - Posted - 09/22/2008:  06:51:29

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I did not, John. Was so anxious to get it on, I forgot. Since I rarely leave the house, and it stays a pretty constant 40% RH, the head has been nice and stable. If I lived in Florida, I might think differently about it. But I guess I should pack something else for this weekend's campout.

supah_g - Posted - 09/22/2008:  12:23:32

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Hi Tom,

I just stumbled across these sound files at Chuck lee's site: check out Dan Levenson's playing of Needlecase on what appears to be the same banjo with all else being the same other than head material, 1 version with Fiberskin head, 2nd with calf skin. Very dramatic difference! I personally much prefer the calf skin sound out of these 2 files. http://www.leebanjos.com/listen.html

Cheers,
g.

WGE - Posted - 09/23/2008:  05:55:26

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KE, you can treat an already mounted hide head. I mounted one of Bill Miller's thin calfskin heads, dried it properly on the pot, then removed it after about a week and sprayed it with Hein Gerike motorcycle leather waterproofing spray. I sprayed both sides, let it dry, then applied a second coat, let that dry and then put the head back on the pot. I did carefully try the spray on some of the leftover pieces of hide before I sprayed the head to make sure nothing bad would happen. The spray was not water-based so it won't loosen the head. This head has been on my Lee Rosehill for two years now and I think I've tightened the head maybe once in that time. I had previously tried a Gold Tone 12-inch premounted head and I could not get it to work properly. To me, I much prefer skin to plastic for both aesthetic and aural reasons.

MikeVB - Posted - 09/24/2008:  12:00:18

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Any appreciable differences in tone amongst these four options on Bill Miller's site:

12" Flat Head Premount banjo head

Standard "white" calfskin
Standard "off white" calfskin
Vellum processed calfskin
White goatskin

What exactly is vellum processed? Assume it looks like vellum paper and is somewhat translucent? Is it oiled and thereby requires no waterproofing before mounting?

Bill doesn't have much info on the site. Does he have any kind of guarantee not to mention instructions on how exactly to waterproof it?

Last question: any reason why the 12" flathead pre-mounted wouldn't fit my Reiter Roundpeak?

Thanks.

Michael
http://www.myspace.com/mikevanbrackle

unclekurty - Posted - 09/24/2008:  13:11:11

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I only have tried Bill's vellum processed heads. They're not oiled and are white. I always treat skin heads with something to waterproof them some to help them stabilize and stay that way. I suspect the vellum heads are thinner and give a brighter tone. Bill's skins are great but I bought less processed skins of goat and calf from Mideast Manufacturing I've also liked and they have a retro/rustic look if you like that. They're usually translucent and don't have much white in them.

I've found some banjos sound better with skin and some don't. It subjective for sure. I have just two banjos now with skin and the rest have ren heads. I have two coming I ordered with skin though.

WGE - Posted - 09/24/2008:  14:33:47

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Michael, I got a standard off-white calfskin and a 12-inch flesh hoop from Bill Miller and installed the head myself. I don't think you would have a problem with a pre-mounted 12-inch head from Bill. The problem with the Gold Tone heads is the very thick aluminum mount for the head. Even their own instructions say that you might need to file the mounting to fit inside the hooks. Bill's heads would come on his brass fleshhoop. I have a Romero that came with what I think is a vellum-processed head. That banjo, however, is nylon strung and I can't attribute any of the tone differences between it and my steel-strung banjos strictly to the head. They DO look cool thought. Bill Miller recommends some sort of spray used to waterproof shoes. Why don't you e-mail Bill with your questions? I have found him very helpful in the past.

Loo P. - Posted - 09/24/2008:  15:04:48

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I just got an 11" pre-mounted (off white) calfskin head from Bill. So far so good. It fit well and definitely changed the tone. I didn't waterproof it since I most always play at home but I did take a cold brew tea bag to it to give it some more color variations.

My Renaissance head was a high crown and the pre-mounted one from Bill looks like a low crown. The tension hoop is now a little higher but it doesn't appear to be a problem.
I may need to tighten it over the next few days but I'm not sure since this is the first real skin I've used. So far I like the tone! But then again, different is always good. Time will tell.

MikeVB - Posted - 09/24/2008:  16:02:50

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"Why don't you e-mail Bill with your questions? I have found him very helpful in the past."

Didn't see an email on his website. Anyone have it?

Loo P. (great name by the way) Bart Reiter recommended a med crown over a high and finally a low in a Fiberskyn head.

Michael
http://www.myspace.com/mikevanbrackle

KE - Posted - 09/24/2008:  19:09:53

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quote:

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Originally posted by MikeVB

"Why don't you e-mail Bill with your questions? I have found him very helpful in the past."

Didn't see an email on his website. Anyone have it?

Loo P. (great name by the way) Bart Reiter recommended a med crown over a high and finally a low in a Fiberskyn head.

Michael
http://www.myspace.com/mikevanbrackle

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The address is on his homepage, with an invitation to contact him with questions:

info@banjoseen.com

Couchie - Posted - 09/25/2008:  18:20:39

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I have a hide head on my ballbearing mastertone. It sounds great for clawhammer and 3 finger.

Don.

O==''=#

http://www.doncouchie.com

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 09/26/2008:  00:37:05

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That's a good point.

I've always wondered why those BGers in search of the "pre-war" sound don't use
the "original manufacturer's equipment" aka skin heads more often.

Of course the CH community can be criticized for exactly the same thing in their quest for "the elusive plunk" !!!

R.D. Lunceford- "Missourian in Exile"
Model 1865 Bowlin Fretless Banjo
****************************************************
"Drink from the Musselfork once, and you''ll
always come back." -Dr. Bondurant Hughes, 1917

gailg64 - Posted - 09/26/2008:  00:59:21

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Some do. Check out Jim Mills' wonderful recording "Hide Head Blues."
Gail

quote:

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Originally posted by R.D. Lunceford

That's a good point.

I've always wondered why those BGers in search of the "pre-war" sound don't use
the "original manufacturer's equipment" aka skin heads more often.

Of course the CH community can be criticized for exactly the same thing in their quest for "the elusive plunk" !!!

R.D. Lunceford- "Missourian in Exile"
Model 1865 Bowlin Fretless Banjo
****************************************************
"Drink from the Musselfork once, and you''ll
always come back." -Dr. Bondurant Hughes, 1917

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"Time is music" - Paul Sutphiin

J-Walk - Posted - 09/28/2008:  17:32:52

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Today I installed a pre-mounted calfskin head (from Bill Miller) on my depression-era Whyte Laydie. It had a plastic skin of some sort on it. Maybe that Yellowstone stuff?

In any case, I was hoping to take the "raspy" edge off of it. It definitely sounds different (for the better), but not as different as I had hoped. But it sure looks a lot better.

Now, every one of my banjos has a skin head.

banjo bill-e - Posted - 09/29/2008:  13:20:41

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J-Walk, do you stuff your head with anything? I put a folded hand towel in my Ramsey Electric to tone it down a bit. I was wondering if a skin head would eliminate that practice.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill

I''m trying for that "ragged, but right" sound. I''m half way there!

J-Walk - Posted - 09/29/2008:  20:42:15

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I used to to do a lot more head stuffing than I do now. I think maybe it's because I'm able to control the sound better. Now, the only reason I stuff is if I want to be quieter, not to control the tone.