RedZinger - Posted - 08/01/2008:  23:07:29

Hi folks,

I’ve been playing a bit with a local “OT” jam. It’s not all that OT, but close enough that it has potential. About every other tune is OT but there's too much country swing etc. mixed in. The real problem is this “alpha fiddler” who is seriously overbearing – he makes the jam much less pleasant than it could be. Anyone, have experience with obnoxious alpha fiddlers? I’d like to stick with it at least long enough to get to know one or two fiddlers to play with. Any advice on what to do? I guess I’ll just grin and bear it for now. I'd be interested in your stories even if you don't have any solutions.

Best wishes,
Rob

Edited by - RedZinger on 08/01/2008 23:11:19

rinemb - Posted - 08/02/2008:  01:37:23

I probably would not be around very long. But might attend a few sessions to find a group who might want to break away from that alpha fiddler. Then I would set new guidelines as to OT-only Jam. If you would like a comprehensive set of guidelines to adapt to your own Jam, email me. Good Luck, Brad

May not the incidence of success, nor the pretense of retirement-
Lessen the want of enlightenment.

LyleK - Posted - 08/02/2008:  04:12:39

Yep, been there. About all you can do with such critters is learn from the negative experience. I find I try to be more sensitive to how I play with others after a "lovely" evening with an alpha fiddler. Or to quote from Clawdan, I try harder to "play nice" with others.

LyleK
tabs at: http://lylewk.home.comcast.net

mrphysics55 - Posted - 08/02/2008:  05:43:30

Good advice from all THREE of ya ..

(1) Grin and bear it for now
(2) Start an OT Jam because you did (1)
(3) Take the lesson of being sensitive to others when "Playing Nice" as you engage in (2)

and

(4) Have Fun because you practice (3)

Enjoy!

MrP


Do you need a Fiddle Player to Practice With 24/7? Go To http://www.fiddletunes.net

Edited by - mrphysics55 on 08/02/2008 05:45:31

FScholle - Posted - 08/02/2008:  11:10:21

Yeah been there. Starting random tunes that absolutely nobody knows, then starting the next one without even telling folks what it was that was just played so that we may have a chance to actually learn it for next time, groaning when someone wants to play one of the "standards"....you name it.

First I got very upset by the whole thing, then I tried to look for a positive which for me was that I got better picking up tunes on the fly and it was not so bad anymore.

The kicker came a t a festival where I helped said alpha set up his camp just to be told later that I would interrupt things if i wanted to jam with them (I wasn't aware that i sucked that bad).

Since the I haven't been back to the jam where that particular person dominates and found me some nicer folks to play with.

Apparently they don't think I suck bad enough to be disruptive.

RedZinger - Posted - 08/02/2008:  16:15:24

Thanks for the comments and ideas. Just for "fun" here's what he does:

Chooses almost every tune.
Rolls eyes/groans at standards.
When he does play a standard, he'll play it at break neck speed (way too fast for the tune) so the beginners couldn't possibly keep up.
Refuses to let us play a tune more than 4 or 5 times through -- no way to learn on the fly.
Makes pretty snotty comments.
Blows off beginners' questions.
Won't call out the key.
Won't give a banjo 2 seconds to retune or slap on/off a capo.
Generally acts like the "silver back" dominating every aspect of the jam, every minute of the jam from the second he walks in the room.
Isn't a very good fiddler anyway.

Rob

rinemb - Posted - 08/02/2008:  16:25:33

That really "blows". If you feel that so do most of the others, I imagine. I would pick a enough of the folks to have a good jam on your own. If some folks need to work with a "slow jam" for a while you can start there. I never did a slow jam, and liked playing with folks more advanced then me. I would just listen when I was totally lost, or chord a bit when I could. It was always a "feel good" when the lead chairs would ask me to pick a tune, then I could at least lead on one tune. I guess it may depend on who organized the jam sessions how you play it. If it were a music shop one may need to approach it with a little more care. etc. My friend Chip intorduced me to jamming at the John C Cambell Folk School. It so great to sit in on the local jam with so many fine players. Brad

May not the incidence of success, nor the pretense of retirement-
Lessen the want of enlightenment.

brokenstrings - Posted - 08/02/2008:  23:19:45

quote:

---

Originally posted by RedZinger

Thanks for the comments and ideas. Just for "fun" here's what he does:

Chooses almost every tune.
Rolls eyes/groans at standards.
When he does play a standard, he'll play it at break neck speed (way too fast for the tune) so the beginners couldn't possibly keep up.
Refuses to let us play a tune more than 4 or 5 times through -- no way to learn on the fly.
Makes pretty snotty comments.
Blows off beginners' questions.
Won't call out the key.
Won't give a banjo 2 seconds to retune or slap on/off a capo.
Generally acts like the "silver back" dominating every aspect of the jam, every minute of the jam from the second he walks in the room.
Isn't a very good fiddler anyway.

Rob

---

allenadale - Posted - 08/03/2008:  06:53:09

I feel sorry for you. Well I hope you find a couple people soon who would like to break away from this talentless topdog. It sounds like he is trying to prove something.

Over here in Evansville, IN I'd be happy to have a couple other people to play OT with. I wouldn't care if they were all beginners and the set list was all standards. I'd be happy to share fiddling duties and pick up the banjo or mandolin to back someone else up.

tom clunie - Posted - 08/03/2008:  07:22:22

Been there too. Is there a way to transfer this thread over to the fiddle handout to let some of the alphas know we got their number....TC

RedZinger - Posted - 08/03/2008:  09:13:38

Hi Folks,
Thanks for the support. I've been avoiding the jam because of him, and a couple of regulars tell me that the group is dwindling. So maybe someone else had a talk with him, because it seems like you couldn't keep acting like that without someon speaking up. I'll keep with it for a while longer out of love of OT. In a way I feel sorry for the guy. I mean, what has got to be going on inside a person to make them want to act like that? To be fair, he's not talentless, just tactless. He's just not THAT good. Anyhow, I'm fairly new to the area, so I'll just keep looking.

Best,
Rob

slabounty - Posted - 08/06/2008:  10:19:36

I thought about this one a bit and it might be worth trying to salvage the situation. You've listed a few things that are issues (standards too fast especially for beginners, not saying the name of the tune just played, refuses to play more than a few times through, etc.). What I might try is before the jam and with everyone there address these issues without singling him out. Say something like "I've noticed that sometimes we play the standards too fast and the beginners can't keep up. Let's try to make it fun for them too and play these at a slower pace." or "Let's all make a habit of saying the name of the tune before and after so that if someone doesn't know it, they can learn it over the next week" or "Sometimes we don't play a tune enough times through to get familiar with it. Can we run through tunes at least eight or ten times?". My guess is that most everyone will agree with these suggestions or whatever else you suggest. If the Alpha Fiddler (AF) does then start breaking the rules, just stop him with "Ed, I think that's a bit too fast for the beginners. Can we start over at a slower tempo?" or "Ed, I'm not sure we said what the name of that tune is and I'd like to learn it". You may have to do this sort of thing a number of times, but hopefully he'll get the message. If not, then maybe it's time to split off.


Scott LaBounty
Orange, CA

fretlessinfortwayne - Posted - 08/06/2008:  17:16:15

Based on your comments about his behavior, I would seriously try to get away from this guy. The only way he may change his behavior, and that is doubtful, is if he learns that people want to play music away from him. If he finds out that a small group is jamming away without him and confronts you, then you tell him the truth -- "Man, you have been acting like a jerk." And you lay it all out on how he is alienating others. It just might alter his behavior, but again, that's doubtful. But if you are not having fun, form your own jam and be strong an exclude the bully. A tough situation and I feel for you.

Dean

"Hooray Jake, Hooray John, Breakin'' up Christmas all night long."

dbrooks - Posted - 08/07/2008:  07:56:10

Are you up to starting your own OT jam? I understand if the answer is "No," but you may find others will welcome your new jam.

It might help to state a purpose for the current jam and/or the "new" jam. I did that recently, and we have gotten off to a good start. We'll see if it continues.

Several months ago, a local OT band initiated a monthly jam that was lots of fun and full of energy. The tunes were usually played very fast, however, and this discouraged the less experienced players who showed up.

The local dulcimer society has a weekly jam that plays almost all OT music, but nearly all of it is in the key of D -- even tunes that traditionally might be in another key. They tend to play tunes at a steady, though sometimes slow, rate. They do have "fast" and "slow" jams, but they usually play tunes a bit slow.

I suggested to a local music store that we try a monthly OT jam aimed at "intermediate" players. We would strive for an intermediate tempo (90-100 bpm) that would give folks a chance to learn and develop tunes. We have had three of these jams and the response has been very good so far with 10-15 attendees. I have stressed these general goals and tried to send the message that the jam can evolve in the direction the group seems to want most. I recently sent out music and MP3 for a tune that we have played a couple of times with the idea of helping people learn it and add it into the rotation. I'd like to do this each month.

We have had a fiddler or two, but not an alpha fiddler. In fact, I'd like to get a stronger fiddler to anchor this group. I guess I should be careful what I ask for, based on your experience.

I'm not sure how long this jam may sustain itself. I guess if the interest wanes, it should expire. But the early signs are encouraging.

David

RedZinger - Posted - 08/07/2008:  11:24:58

Thanks much, Scott, Dean and David for your thoughtful comments. Scott, your approach is basically what I've been trying, and what I'll keep trying. Me: "Hey, what'dya say we play this next one through a few times more so some of us newbies can get a better feel for it." Then on the next tune alpha fiddler sticks his foot out on the fourth pass through. But I'm going to keep trying until I can find something else or start something else. If I can't get something else, then I'll just quit and go back solo playing with occasional jam with my folk-rock wife. I've only been to this jam about four times, so maybe it's in a transitional phase or something.

Anyone have success starting an OT jam from a newspaper ad?

Best wishes,
Rob

Edited by - RedZinger on 08/07/2008 11:26:17

FScholle - Posted - 08/07/2008:  13:56:11

Anyone have success starting an OT jam from a newspaper ad?

You can try craigslist....just make sure you explain what OT music is...I tried and got a bunch of folks wanting to play classic rock (Pink Floyd n' such).....hmmmm..maybe I should have put in words like "banjo" and "fiddle"

Another fellow posted on craigslist a week after me and now we have a regular jam. Also posted flyers in music stores and spread the word etc.

banjo_brad - Posted - 08/07/2008:  15:21:51

Rob-

I started an OT Music Circle (I don't think of OT music as capable of being a "jam" ) by doing the following:

1) I had a couple of other OT banjo players who I knew would be at the first one.

2) I found a meeting room at the local public library and reserved it for 4 months, same evening of the week each month.

3) I made up fliers and made the rounds of as many music stores as I could find within driving distances.

4) I put up a listing on folkjam.org (http://www.folkjam.org ).

5) I mentioned the meeting on here, fiddlefork, ezFolk, banjo-L, fiddle-L and made a big announcement on my own site.

6) I had a short list of rules (the library's) and guidelines, put out a sign-up list to be emailed a reminder before the next circle, had some bottled water available, and a pencil and paper to note down the tunes played to establish a "tune list".

7) I set up with crossed fingers and waited - a very short time! The first night we had over 20 players show up, fiddle, banjo, guitar.

We are now 2/3's of the way through our second year.

You can check out some of the facts, get a tune list, sample flier and a copy of our "Rules and Guidelines" at http://www.totmc.org or email me with any questions, I'll try to help all I can.


Brad
------------------
www.PricklyPearMusic.net
http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/5/ My ezFolk page
http://ezfolk.com/audio/bands/3371/ Tucson Old Time Music Circle page on ezFolk
http://www.totmc.org Tucson Old Time Music Circle Homepage