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Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.banjohangout.org/archive/110235
Mirek Patek - Posted - 03/07/2008: 14:25:12
Concerning the modes discussed in another thread, I suggest to practice them not only as single lines, but also in doublestops with the lower voice third apart - the correct third (major or minor), so the lower note falls also into the particular mode. The only exception is the root, which has lower voice perfect fourth appart. This exercise helps me to hear modes better.
Here are six G modes on DG strings of our banjos. (Locrian mode is missing as it has no perfect fourth below the root.)
G lydian mode G-0--2--4--6--7--9-11-12- D-0--4--5--7--9-11-12-12- G ionian mode (G major) G-0--2--4--5--7--9-11-12- D-0--4--5--7--9-10-12-12- G mixolydian mode G-0--2--4--5--7--9-10-12- D-0--3--5--7--9-10-12-12- G dorian mode G-0--2--3--5--7--9-10-12- D-0--3--5--7--8-10-12-12- G aeolian mode (G minor) G-0--2--3--5--7--8-10-12- D-0--3--5--7--8-10-12-12- G phrygian mode G-0--1--3--5--7--8-10-12- D-0--3--5--6--8-10-12-12-Mirek
Edited by - Mirek Patek on 03/07/2008 16:58:45
Tom Hanway - Posted - 03/07/2008: 22:58:19
quote:This is great ear training. You are brilliant.
Originally posted by Mirek Patek
Concerning the modes discussed in another thread, I suggest to practice them not only as single lines, but also in doublestops with the lower voice third apart - the correct third (major or minor), so the lower note falls also into the particular mode. The only exception is the root, which has lower voice perfect fourth appart. This exercise helps me to hear modes better.
RyanHerr - Posted - 03/11/2008: 17:55:01
I sort of do this with major and minor but not with the modes, that's challenging, and something and to work on. Good idea Mirek!
The difference in what I do is that I play 3rds on strings 1 & 2 of a 5 string banjo, and 6ths on strings 1 & 3 or on strings 2 & 4.
-Ryan.
Mirek Patek - Posted - 03/12/2008: 04:29:38
Thanks, Tom and Ryan.
Here are the modes of melodic minor scale.
For the record: from the theory point of view, the melodic minor scale can be derived by raising the 6th and 7th degrees of aeolian mode (minor scale). Theoretically uncorrect, but more easy derivation of fingering is by lowering the 3rd degree of ionian mode (major scale) or by raising the 7th degree of dorian mode.
I am repeating here the modes of major scale with the main voice on higher string and third (fourth in case of root) on deeper string. Now they are from A in order to catch the locrian mode with augmented lower fourth under the root. Then the melodic minor modes are presented, again on the D and G strings. Of course, one should find the doublestops on another pairs of strings too, but I will leave this to 5-string players here.
Modes of major scale
1) A ionian mode (A major) G-2--4--6--7--9-11-13-14- D-2--6--7--9-11-12-14-14- 2) A dorian mode G-2--4--5--7--9-11-12-14- D-2--5--7--9-10-12-14-14- 3) A phrygian mode G-2--3--5--7--9-10-12-14- D-2--5--7--8-10-12-14-14- 4) A lydian mode G-2--4--6--8--9-11-13-14- D-2--6--7--9-11-13-14-14- 5) A mixolydian mode G-2--4--6--7--9-11-12-14- D-2--5--7--9-11-12-14-14- 6) A aeolian mode (A minor) G-2--4--5--7--9-10-12-14- D-2--5--7--9-10-12-14-14- 7) A locrian mode G-2--3--5--7--8-10-12-14- D-1--5--7--8-10-12-13-13-
1) ionian with b3 or dorian with #7 G-2--4--5--7--9-11-13-14- D-2--6--7--9-10-12-14-14- 2) dorian with b2 or phrygian with #6 G-2--3--5--7--9-11-12-14- D-2--5--7--8-10-12-14-14- 3) lydian with #5 G-2--4--6--8-10-11-13-14- D-3--6--7--9-11-13-15-15- 4) lydian with b7 or mixolydian with #4 G-2--4--6--8--9-11-12-14- D-2--5--7--9-11-13-14-14- 5) mixolydian with b6 or aeolian with #3 G-2--4--6--7--9-10-12-14- D-2--5--7--9-11-12-14-14- 6) aeolian with b5 or locrian with #2 G-2--4--5--7--8-10-12-14- D-1--5--7--9-10-12-13-13- 7) locrian with b4 G-2--3--5--6--8-10-12-14- D-1--5--7--8-10-11-13-13-Modes of harmonic minor and harmonic major scales will follow.
Mirek Patek - Posted - 03/12/2008: 04:44:56
Modes of harmonic minor scale
For more info (terminology, usage etc.) look e.g. at
http://www.guitar-dreams.com/harmonicminor.html
1) aeolian with #7 G-2--4--5--7--9-10-13-14- D-2--6--7--9-10-12-14-14- 2) locrian with #6 G-2--3--5--7--8-11-12-14- D-1--5--7--8-10-12-13-13- 3) ionian with #5 G-2--4--6--7-10-11-13-14- D-3--6--7--9-11-12-15-15- 4) dorian with #4 G-2--4--5--8--9-11-12-14- D-2--5--7--9-10-13-14-14- 5) phrygian with #3 G-2--3--6--7--9-10-12-14- D-2--5--7--8-11-12-14-14- 6) lydian with #2 G-2--5--6--8--9-11-13-14- D-2--6--7-10-11-13-14-14- 7) G-2--3--5--6--8-10-11-14- D-1--4--7--8-10-11-13-13-
1) ionian with b6 G-2--4--6--7--9-10-13-14- D-2--6--7--9-11-12-14-14- 2) dorian with b5 G-2--4--5--7--8-11-12-14- D-1--5--7--9-10-12-13-13- 3) phrygian with b4 G-2--3--5--6--9-10-12-14- D-2--5--7--8-10-11-14-14- 4) lydian with b3 G-2--4--5--8--9-11-13-14- D-2--6--7--9-10-13-14-14- 5) mixolydian with b2 G-2--3--6--7--9-11-12-14- D-2--5--7--8-11-12-14-14- 6) G-2--5--6--8-10-11-13-14- D-3--6--7-10-11-13-15-15- 7) locrian with b7 G-2--3--5--7--8-10-11-14- D-1--4--7--8-10-12-13-13-Mirek
Trent in WA - Posted - 03/15/2008: 02:01:29
Mirek, this is truly wonderful. I'm a raw beginner on banjo but this is the sort of thing I would work out on guitar (my main instrument) long ago. Thank you from the bottom of my lazy heart!
http://www.myspace.com/trentghill
Tom Hanway - Posted - 03/19/2008: 16:17:01
Awesome. Mirek, you really are thorough and precise in your exercises, the hallmark of a true musician. I am in awe. I think that practicing these can lead directly to composing new and unusual tunes. Thank you for this. I can't wait to practice these, but now I have to cook dinner....
Happy pickin',
Tom
http://www.tomhanway.com
Edited by - Tom Hanway on 03/28/2008 20:37:08
Mirek Patek - Posted - 04/27/2008: 02:11:16
If the melody is played up the neck on the high d string of 5-string banjo, it can be harmonised not only by lower third, but also by lower tenth (10) - the third plus octave. The root is harmonised by lower eleventh (11) - the fourth plus octave. Here is the example in case of G modes (in case of A modes the eleventh may be tough for the left hand, but it is good finger-stretching execise).
G lydian mode d-5--7--9-11-12-14-16-17- B------------------------ G------------------------ D-0--4--5--7--9-11-12-12- g------------------------ G ionian mode (G major) d-5--7--9-10-12-14-16-17- B------------------------ G------------------------ D-0--4--5--7--9-10-12-12- g------------------------ G mixolydian mode d-5--7--9-10-12-14-15-17- B------------------------ G------------------------ D-0--3--5--7--9-10-12-12- g------------------------ G dorian mode d-5--7--8-10-12-14-15-17- B------------------------ G------------------------ D-0--3--5--7--8-10-12-12- g------------------------ G aeolian mode (G minor) d-5--7--8-10-12-13-15-17- B------------------------ G------------------------ D-0--3--5--7--8-10-12-12- g------------------------ G phrygian mode d-5--6--8-10-12-13-15-17- B------------------------ G------------------------ D-0--3--5--6--8-10-12-12- g------------------------Mirek
Edited by - Mirek Patek on 04/27/2008 02:14:40
Mirek Patek - Posted - 07/14/2008: 01:07:36
One of possible right hand executions of these doublestops is discussed here:
http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/t...IC_ID=111388
Mirek
http://www.geocities.com/patekstylebanjo
Mirek Patek - Posted - 12/22/2008: 03:00:58
quote:For the upper root, one can play the lower (minor or major) sixth instead of the perfect fourth. Demonstrated here on the six G modes on DG strings from the first post.
Originally posted by Mirek Patek
The only exception is the root, which has lower voice perfect fourth appart.
G lydian mode G-0--2--4--6--7--9-11-12- D-0--4--5--7--9-11-12--9- G ionian mode (G major) G-0--2--4--5--7--9-11-12- D-0--4--5--7--9-10-12--9- G mixolydian mode G-0--2--4--5--7--9-10-12- D-0--3--5--7--9-10-12--9- G dorian mode G-0--2--3--5--7--9-10-12- D-0--3--5--7--8-10-12--8- G aeolian mode (G minor) G-0--2--3--5--7--8-10-12- D-0--3--5--7--8-10-12--8- G phrygian mode G-0--1--3--5--7--8-10-12- D-0--3--5--6--8-10-12--8-Mirek
Edited by - Mirek Patek on 04/28/2009 03:50:53
KevinP - Posted - 12/22/2008: 05:31:36
Hey Mirek, thanks for the post...
I'm just starting to learn about scales and modes and this is great for learning.
Kevin
pearcemusic - Posted - 04/28/2009: 05:58:57
quote:
Originally posted by KevinP
Hey Mirek, thanks for the post...
I'm just starting to learn about scales and modes and this is great for learning.
Kevin
Edited by - pearcemusic on 04/28/2009 09:22:51
RPM - Posted - 04/28/2009: 16:56:12
This is a very helpful post. Kudos.
It's also good to remember that you don't have to start on the root, and especially the root and fifth -- although as Mirek shows here that can work.
But you can also start with notes that make up an interval of a third (or sixth, depending on which you consider the melody and which is the harmony) within the scale, so that you also start and end on a third instead on the fifth.
Often, the fifth or the third note in the scale is the jumping off point.
For example, say you’re in A Ionian (major) . Instead of starting with the A on the third string and E on the fourth string, try starting with the C# on the second string and E and on the fourth string. They’re the third and fifth notes in the scale and a minor third or major sixth apart, depending on which is the melody note.
String D: ----------------------
String B: 2 - 3 - 5 - 7 - 9 - 10 – 12 - 14
String G: ----------------------
String D: 2 -4 - 6- 7 - 9 - 11 – 13 - 14
Notice that there’s a pattern. After the first double stop, the notes are one fret apart twice, then in the same fret twice, then one fret apart twice, then back to the same fret at the octave.
If you start on the 7/7 step -- which has the root A on the fourth string – or 11/10, which has the root A on the second string – and flip back to the beginning after the octave the fingering pattern is two one way and two another way all the way through.
In any of the modes, if you start on a notes that make a third ( or sixth) interval within the mode, there will only be two finger patterns as you go up the strings. Of course, you won’t always have two of one fingering patter and then two of the other – the exact order the fingering patterns come in depends on the mode and where you’re starting.
But there will always be two patterns. Which makes it easier to get a handle on.
Also, the fact that all of the intervals are a third (or sixth) means you can move them from string pair to string pair. For example, when you get to the A note on the fourth string in the example, you can move it to the third string, and the notes on the second string would then move to the first. So:
String D: ----------------------
String B: 2 - 3 - 5 - 7 - 9 - 10 – 12 - 14
String G: ----------------------
String D: 2 -4 - 6- 7 - 9 - 11 – 13 - 14
Is equal to
String D: ------------4-6-7-9-11
String B: 2 - 3 - 5 - --------------
String G: ------------2-4-6-7-9-
String D: 2 -4 - 6- --------------
Notice that the fingering patterns change when you go to different strings, but there are still two pat-terns.
Being able to switch string pairs allows you to go lower than the root in this case or avoid going as high up the neck if you want to keep going up the scale.
Edited by - RPM on 04/29/2009 10:12:38
banjovy - Posted - 04/28/2009: 21:16:35
Excellent work Mirek! I will check out the melodic and harmonic minor ones! Thank you
pearcemusic - Posted - 04/29/2009: 12:11:22
see if this is applicable ... some major diatonic modes with a RH crossover emphasis
ascending melodic minor and harmonic minor modes are easy to do as well
The Pearce Family Bluegrass Band
www.pearcemusic.com
Edited by - pearcemusic on 04/29/2009 12:13:18
Joe Larson - Posted - 04/30/2009: 06:42:49
cool chart Doub, thanks for posting.
j
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user...&view=videos
I''d rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
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