http://www.eh-resources.org/timeline/timeline_lia.html  This is an article that I googled at random that drills a little deeper into the so-called "little ice age".  From this article, I don't see how the growth of trees in the upper US could NOT have been affected.  Maybe somebody with some expertise in this area will weigh in?

While I support your right to post anything you want, a BIG thanks goes out those very few who answered my question.

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Originally posted by Deaf Lester Crawdad

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Originally posted by derekanjo

Where do you luthiers or hobbyists buy or find your old wood. In may case, I'm looking for older than dirt maple. 

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My question would be "Why bother?"   

Stability issues aside  -and older woods do tend to be more stable-  the age of the woods used in banjos has pretty much zero effect on the tonality anyhow.

~Pete

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Simple answer: Because I want to.

Derek You have to get used to this place, and people who think that posting MORE or louder will make them right. It seems like you are able to detect those with experience over LOUD. Like I said in my post pages ago, the characteristics are SOLIDLY proven in industry recognized testing ... and BUIDING by those who recognized the possibilities, and have been proven right by experience. Feel free to contact me off list and Ill be happy to share the facts. Ill shre these with anyone else as well OFF LIST, so as to eliminat the temptation of those with no experience who seem hell bent on showing that fact (g) Scott

This is a topic that has been an area of interest to me for decades.
You are free to believe and post whatever you like, and more power to you. The above post by Scott (Desert Rose), as well as his previous posts earlier, are pretty much accurate and profound.
Scott knows that of which he speaks. If you don't know this already, he is perhaps the most knowledgeable individual on this topic that participates with this forum.

Yept... There is "sound wisdom" with "age" and experience along with the old wood too!! Har, HAR,, tee heee!!
Old wood, the older the better is best... But I have found that about 30 years of age for production rims seems to be a milestone for their sound also...

I find this thread (although unraveling somewhat) great to read.  I Googled "Stradivari Myths" and found some good reading on the subject.  As in this thread, there are great differences in opinion about it.    

http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,15642750,00.html 

http://www.seitzviolins.com/mythsandfacts.htm 

http://www.jeffsextonwrites.com/2011/03/the-stradivarius-myth/ 

et al

The will be difference in opinion - always.  If I could afford to buy a  $20,000 guitar, no-one would be able to convince me that its tonal properties are inferior to a $500 guitar.  On the other hand if all I can afford is a $100 guitar, it would probably be easy for me to criticise the expensive one, you know - he who cannot reach the grapes declares them sour....)

Opinions are opinions and our own are based on our frame of reference and experience and subject matter knowledge.  Not criticising anyone on this thread - just my $0.02 worth.

Have a lovely day

I suspect that the hardest and oldest wood in this thread is in the skulls of those whose posts are just argumentative.  It's certainly clear that their old wood doesn't improve the tone of their posts.  

I know a lotta folks are gonna hate me for this question, but how do you salvage maple lumber from a submerged white pine forest? The areas of virgin timber mentioned in this topic were all white pine forest but banjo rims are made of maple.

I am more that just a little interested in this topic.  Until recently I believed that water is bad for wood.  After reading posts in this forum I recall more than 30 years ago I worked in one of the first gold mines in the Vaal Reef and the shaft furniture was made of wood.  it was after many years still working good.  The wood was kept wet by water spray and still did what it was supposed to do.  Also when I started working on my first banjo, I asked the timber merchant why the wood was not kept dry.  His reply was its not the water that damages the wood, but the sun.

Okay. So. This topic, as I originally intended it, was not meant debate the merits of submerged wood versus dry wood. I just want to know what I can get submerged wood or OLD wood. That is all. 

I know I can go to reclamation shops, I have no construction business friends, and I know of no factories being torn down in my immediate area. Any other suggestions?

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Originally posted by derekanjo

So. I couldn't really find anything specific on here, so I have this question:

Where do you luthiers or hobbyists buy or find your old wood. In may case, I'm looking for older than dirt maple. 
 

Thanks.

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Other than http://timelesstimber.com/#/home/......you can go to antique shops...not the high end ones......antique barns is what they are called around my neck of the woods. Depending on what you want to do with it,....necks, rims, bridges, etc.....you can buy old furniture (tables and chairs),...I've even found maple in pallets, and old Coca Cola wood crates, rolling pins, butcher blocks are excellent for bridges or block rims.

So unless someone on the Hangout has some they will send your way, those are some alternatives for you.

Tim

I notice on your home page you make bridges but I didn't notice in the thread, maybe I missed it. It would probably help your search if you described what for and how much wood you seek. But here are some ideas -

There are few places that specialize in used or "old" wood, it's just hard to keep a supply stream going for such a business. But you can try things like second hand shops for old furniture or other wood items. My wife looks for some things, I look for wood, couple years back I found a duck carved from solid Brazilian rosewood, I've found teak cutting boards, all kinds of stuff.Cruise around local towns on trash pick-up day. In bigger towns some people do that full time. Run a wanted add in the paper for old maple flooring or on Craigs list or ebay. Go to businesses that specialize in wood floors and ask them if they have any floor removal jobs coming up and volunteer to help rip it up for the old wood.

I think to find old wood you have to be creative, I've never seen an old wood store except the companies specializing in the stuff reclaimed from under water.

Good luck

Brian

Find a carpenter that remodels old homes or has connections to special old lumber stashes.
Works for me.

Thank you, guys. I guess I should have been that mean an direct from the start. :)

Submerged wood, underwater for a century plus. . . . .

Consider the prime log which went into the water in the first place.
Eastern North America was in and rising from the climatic period usually referred to as the "Little Ice Age."
Obviously those trees/logs were not hampered by many decades of long cold and snowy winters.

The difference lies in the altered wood anatomy, the wood of growth in decades of very cool summers.
With less ground water evaporating, water availability was more consistent, little late summer drying.
The direct result is that the elongate xylem fibers do more interstitial growth (in between eachother)
before the cells mature and lyse the living cell contents to mature as wood cells. Vessel elements included.

Scott speaks of stability: try this= touch your fingertips together. Have someone pull your hands apart.
Now, mesh your fingers together as best you can and squeeze a little. Have someone try again to pull your hands apart.
Which was the more stable arrangement?

Then the log went into the water, boomed up for some mill, saturated and sank. While the submergence aids in preservation, it's the unique anatomy of the sunken log which is the real prize.

quote:

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Originally posted by derekanjo

quote:

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Originally posted by Deaf Lester Crawdad

quote:

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Originally posted by derekanjo

Where do you luthiers or hobbyists buy or find your old wood. In may case, I'm looking for older than dirt maple. 

---

 
My question would be "Why bother?"   

Stability issues aside  -and older woods do tend to be more stable-  the age of the woods used in banjos has pretty much zero effect on the tonality anyhow.

~Pete

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Simple answer: Because I want to.

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 I don't think that anyone has a problem with that.   

After all, it's your project.

Part of me is regretting asking anything about this topic here. I should have just contacted people privately.

If you really want to stir things up, ask if it's o.k. to use lemon oil on a neck.
;)

richla, if there were a way to "like" that comment, I would. :)

richla, if there were a way to "like" that comment, I would. :)

Yes,contact people privately.People that renovate old buildings.
I didn't find my old wood on the internet.

So what you're saying is that I should contact people that renovate old buildings? 

That's a good place to start.
Put the word out to some carpenters that work on old barns and houses what kind of wood you are looking for and you might see some special stuff.
I got a call this morning from a carpenter that I asked to keep an eye peeled for something of interest for my bridges.
This carpenter is also the builder of his own and 9 other F style mandolins.

He has a 2x2x6' stick of maple that's been in an attic since around 1900.
I'll be picking with him tomorrow in Portland and he's bringing it with him.

That's how this happens...just ask politely if they'd give you a call.
You might find some picking pals in the process.
I know a lot of carpenters that pick good.

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Originally posted by banjobart

I know a lotta folks are gonna hate me for this question, but how do you salvage maple lumber from a submerged white pine forest? The areas of virgin timber mentioned in this topic were all white pine forest but banjo rims are made of maple.

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Submerged forests are only part of the deal.

There was a lot of lumber that just sunk. Trees were floated down the rivers followed by log rollers who'd try to open up jams. If the logs got away into the Lakes, they eventually got waterlogged--an important physical change--and they sunk.

Lots of them.