I listed a Stelling on the hangout some years ago, and lo and behold, it also appeared on eBay from a fraudulent vendor, same description and photos from the hangout. I notified eBay and they canceled the listing. Shortly thereafter, It appeared a second time from a separate vendor ID on eBay. Both of the eBay vendors had considerable eBay history - I assume the IDs had been hijacked. The ability to copy photos from the hangout helped these scammers.

just thought i'd put this in here -- i saw it mentioned in another forum topic but the more the merrier when it comes to educating people about scams, i figure -- there are some common scams on ebay involving beautiful instruments for sale very cheap, usually with a "first $1800 buys it" banner. beware. these are not legitimate sales, they are hacked accounts. do not be fooled by the sellers rep score, it will not be them selling these bogus items.

Ok the trouble is you would not as a rule get a good price for a valuable instrument on ebay but thats the place to buy one I have brought a few mandos banjos and always am a bit nervous but no problems. Also brought two sloans off this site as I am buying from Uk both times I have had to pay up front and lets face it if the did not arrive what could I do.Its not just if its a straight fraud it could be a seller who has taken to drink etc. It comes down to trust and judgement but we can all fall the victim of crime.

Most good banjos are in the US and americans seem very reluctant to send abroad is it more of a problem in the US. The American post seems a lot better than ours and are as quick it just grinds to a halt in our customs

Thanks for the heads up Sherry.  Keeping BHO pristine is a tall order, but so far you moderators are doing a bang up job.  Let's keep the hangout from becoming a banjo ebay.  Keep us posted on anything we can do to help out in this cause.

SCAM ALERT!

While checking out banjos on the Internet, I ran across this site: http://www.banjo-brands.com 

It appears that someone is taking legit Hangout classifieds, and is posting them on this site as their own. Of course, the banjos are "bargains" at the reduced prices.

Craig

I just found "my ad" posted on Banjo Brands". This is the second time in a year.
Don't know how to stop them from lifting my photos and description.
It is almost not worth the hassel of selling when this is going on.

Ok, I'll try to punt this ball along.

A few minutes ago I emailed a general inquiry to the Internet Corporations for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) which is essentially the internet police of sorts, if there is any.

Here is the email sent:

Greetings. I am writing on behalf of myself, and as an unappointed representative member of the US based banjohangout.org community of musicians. There has been a recurring, and increasing, problem of a european website where stolen advertisements continually appear in fraudulent form. This problem continues to this day. The questionable website is "banjo-brands.com" and is essentially a delivery of advertisments, descriptions, and photos stolen from other sources, and relisted there. Their sources include craigslist, eBay, and banjohangout.org.

This has been an ongoing problem. There are numerous discussions about this on banjohangout:

http://www.banjohangout.org/topic/226278

http://www.banjohangout.org/topic/224542

http://www.banjohangout.org/topic/229544

THE OPEN QUESTION WE ALL HAVE IS: can anything be done to put a stop this this website or its practice of hosting stolen, fraudulent ads?

In the past I have contacted the website's owner directly, and his reply was essential it is a free website, anyone can list.

I ask for any information, or action, or feedback, in this matter.

Many thanks in advance.

If I should receive a reply back, I'll post it here.

Edited by - banjoy on 06/06/2012 03:42:43

Well, back to square one. Here is the reply from ICANN.

Thank you for your inquiry concerning the content of a website. Although we appreciate your concern, ICANN does not have contractual authority to address complaints about website content.

ICANN is not a government agency. ICANN is a private sector, not-for-profit organization with limited technical responsibility for coordinating the unique assignment of Internet domain names and IP addresses.
Therefore, ICANN cannot address consumer complaints regarding the following
matters:

1. Spam complaints
2. Website content complaints
3. Failure to answer phones promptly
4. Failure to respond to e-mail messages promptly
5. Overbilling/Multiple billing
6. Computer viruses

These types of consumer complaints are not addressed in the Registrar Accreditation Agreement (RAA) and are therefore not a violation of the RAA.
Please see, http://www.icann.org/en/registrars/ra-agreement-21may09-en.htm.

If you believe the website content refers to anything illegal, your best course of action is to contact a law enforcement agency in your jurisdiction or to seek legal advice from an attorney.

If you are concerned about the content of an email message or a web page, you should contact the domain name holder or the applicable Internet Service Provider.

Best regards,

ICANN Services

It's kind of funny that they list "Website content complainst" as one of they things they don't deal with, as that was one of the specific choices on why the contact was being made to being with. It seems they could have simply redirected me to this information as soon as I selected that as the reason.

May not be governmental, but definitely a bureaucracy. No doubt.

Since international boundaries are crossed here, it seems we're screwed no matter what.

MAYBE SOME GOOD NEWS

It seems that although banjo-brands.com is based in Europe, it seems they have incorporated in the state of Delaware. This may open them to prosecution for fraud within the US.

Because I personally have not been a victim of banjo-brands.com I cannot file a complaint as I have no standing to do so.

I urge anyone reading these threads who has found their ad descriptions and photos, stolen and re-listed on that bogus website, to file a consumer complaint of fraud with the Delaware Department of Justice.

This may be the only way to put a stop to this rampant fraud. Only folks who can document that their ad was stolen and re-listed, or those who have been defrauded by this website (and who live in the US) should file.

Here is a link the the website to start the complaint process:

Delaware Department of Justice Consumer Complaint Form

Banjo brands is the property of :

Edited by - banjoy on 06/06/2012 09:43:23

I have had a couple of the scammers responding on mymGranada Imhave for sale.....you tell right away their little game.....here's one I received..
Thanks so much for writing back. I'm sorry, I won't be able to come see it anymore as I have planned. I was supposed to be in town for a business management seminar/meeting but it has been cancelled this morning. I believe I can still go ahead and buy it right? I really need it for someone dear to me, a distant cousin.I'll mail you an official bank check certified for the quoted price. Any repairs will be on me bearing the consequences of not seeing before buying. I'll be taking care of the pickup/handling/shipping also. You do not have to worry about the shipping process and cost okay. I'll add the shipping funds to the sale price and arrange for a delivery person afterwards to handle the pickup and delivery including all shipping arrangements. I will be very glad and much delighted if it can be sold to me. Email me back with your name, phone number and address to get the check mailed out to you. Thanks a lot. 

Sorry again I couldn't make it. Hope you're having a pleasant day?? I'll be waiting to hear from you soon.

Thanks,
Tiffany.


I responded, wow you seem so honest..

Just send me your address and I will,ship the banjo and once you decide you like it, just send me a check....."......right..

While I have continued to receive bogus offers on my prior banjo listing I also get them in my ham radio listings. They may use existing members names or IDs if they can get them. One person even found my telephone number and called me using a number listed in Crooksville Ohio, speaking very softly and in a foreign accent, while pretending to be another member.

He could not properly pronounce the name he had borrowed from another bonafide member (with whom I had already spoken). The scammer had apparently just fallen off of his roof and broken both his arm and leg and would need to have  the "item" picked up by an agency. There's your sign!

Again he offered more money than requested and I should return the balance (before his cashier's check bounced). Another excuse I have  received twice is "I need to attend a funeral and will be out of town" or "my son has suddenly been diagnosed with a terminal illness and I need to visit him, but still want your item, however my address is now changed"

Generally the scammers approaching me have shown little knowledge about the article being sold/bought and refer to it in generic mays such as "the item you are selling". Pressed to show a bit of knowledge on the instrument or item, they fall short or may stop communicating. Another asked me to please send additional extensive high quality photos of my "item", perhaps to check me out as legit or for his own use.

As a final note, the police have suggested not exchanging personal information - as the scammer may be after your ID as well as your "item" and cash.

Edited by - Rich Mason on 09/14/2012 07:58:34

I get scammer emails several times a week since I sell items on my business website. They generally look for things that are in the high hundreds to thousands of dollars, in my case pottery kilns. They always want it shipped overseas, and they ALWAYS want to use their own shipper/carrier. I've even had one of my larger, more expensive pieces of pottery scammed on Etsy. They wanted to pay by check and have it picked up. I said no, and that was the last I heard.

One thing you may want to recommend is that people complete their transactions via PayPal. Ban accounts must be confirmed, and the seller is covered if it turns out to be bogus. I've had to file claims with Paypal twice, both as a purchaser, and I got my money back both times.

All good stuff. Ultimately, caveat emptor.

I have two Omes for sale. Today a guy named "Lanke" here on the HO, said he wanted to buy one. He said he's getting his funds in order. I looked at his Bio page here, today 11-21 is when he registered to be a member, no post..I'm trying to find out more he said he was from Salt lake City Utah, have his first name only.

Steve

Don't usally post too much but have had some expierience with these spammers .As someone who has sold a few things on the internet (ebay  and craigslist and garage sales sites ) I have found that I end up getting 3 good replies out of every 10 with the rest being spam or just someone trying to rip me off ,  Just have too be careful and use the age old advice  if they're too good to be true it usally isn't , keep your eyes open friends ,

I had two of them hit me up in the past 30 days.  

They're pretty easy to spot, actually.  They offer you something you're after at a ridiculously low price, but PROVIDE NO PROOF the product exists.  There are no pics, no sound files, etc.  Instead they go straight to how they can be paid.  Oh, and If there is a pic, make sure the seller stands next to the item or includes a newspaper with current date.  Otherwise they just ripped a jpeg off the web somewhere to satisfy your request.  

They routinely focus on how you can pay them via Western Union.  One of the two lowlifes that chased me had a "wife" in Muncie, IN.  I was to transmit the $$ to her and she would tell him it's ok to ship the item.  Yaah... right. 

It's disheartening to think these folks' livelihood is to deceive and maliciously steal from others.  

Think its time to have a fee to join. $10 bucks a year would stop this scamming. and I think we would have more peace of mind.

im with cb56. make forum posts for contributing members only. i doubt they would spend the money on a chance to scam

I just saw this thread (Yea I'm a little slow) anyway there are many good ideas but not a single one of them will stop the scammers as long as the BHO Classifieds are linked to http://www.banjobuyer.com/

You can go to that site and post to our classifieds without joining the BHO or even looking at the BHO. Correct me if I'm wrong.      It was because of that site, a few years back I found the BHO...Just Saying

There was an ad today for a Gibson tb-3 --1932 one piece flange -that used  Wyatt Fawley's bho site and name--for 2100.00-- I played along for a while-- Glad the mods. deleted the ad before somebody got taken- here is the response- I reported it to Paypal:
(I await to read from you -dead giveaway)
Mike,

Thanks for the prompt response. You can proceed with payment via my PayPal address below:

mommabernardi@yahoo.com

Please let me know once payment is done. As soon as i confirm payment from you i will immediately proceed with shipment and email to you all shipping requirement including a tracking number you could use to track online. I await to read from you.

Thanks.

Edited by - Mike Greylak on 04/10/2013 09:28:49

Good job!
Thank you Modz