Hi gang,

Just a heads up that I posted a new lesson yesterday to my slowly growing lessons page on my website, regarding some tips for helping a beginner to get a better grasp on the 4-finger D chord. (I blogged about it too.) As you accomplished pickers may remember, this was a tough chord in the beginning. Some instructional resources go so far as to suggest that the D7 chord is a suitable substitution, which as we know is incorrect.

So beginners, if you are struggling a bit with the 4-finger D chord and would appreciate a couple of tips, please click over to my free lessons page and see if I have anything that sheds any light on the subject for you. Oh, and you accomplished players, I'd love comment and feedback, especially at the bottom my blog post about the same topic. Here are the links:

Blog post: http://www.mybanjolife.com (it's the lead article as of this writing.)
Main site lessons page: http://www.banjosrule.com/lessons.html

Thanks gang! Hope you all have a great fall and really good holidays. And as I always say: pick 'em if ya got 'em!

"Banjo Paul" Pope
www.mybanjolife.com (blog)
www.banjosrule.com (main site)

Posted - 10/30/2009 :  11:16:53    

Excellent site and discussion on the D Chord formation. It did take a while, but has really served its purpose...even though it gets easier down the neck.

All the best with your site...you may want to get a link to it from the "Learn To Play" menu.

AXeman

If the minimum wasn't good enough...it wouldn't be the minimum.

Posted - 10/30/2009 :  11:32:50  

Great site and very helpful. I learned this chord on Tuesday, and am almost to the point where I can just grab it.

Posted - 10/30/2009 :  11:37:12        

Hey, thanks Axeman and Erik. I appreciate your comments and feedback. And Erik...good job! I have students who struggle with that chord for months. You are an inspiration.

"Banjo Paul" Pope
www.mybanjolife.com (blog)
www.banjosrule.com (main site)

Posted - 10/30/2009 :  11:49:06      

quote:

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"Some instructional resources go so far as to suggest that the D7 chord is a suitable substitution, which as we know is incorrect."

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quote:

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"But for everyone who tells me that substituting a D7 chord for a D chord is acceptable, I then ask why not go ahead and substitute C7 for the C chord and G7 for the G chord? C’mon, go ahead and try it once! Play the song Lonesome Road Blues using G7, C7, and D7 as the chords in the progression. Hear a problem? Yep!"

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Edited by - RyanHerr on 10/30/2009 11:53:43

Posted - 10/30/2009 :  12:06:44        

Hey Ryan,

Thanks for the feedback! I really appreciate it. I'm sure you have me beat when it comes to music theory; I have no formal training other than "the school of life"...jamming and playing in bands and gleaning what I can "accidentally" over the years and what not. So I always have to defer to someone who has more knowledge than me, and clearly you do. However, I guess my bigger point with the D7 is that it's not D. You are right in that we can do anything we want when we are picking, but when it comes time for the V chord, it's time for the V chord, and not the V7. The V7 is a different chord altogether. And perhaps an equally important sub-point is that we need that D chord shape in other places on the neck, so instead of taking the path of least resistance and playing D7 when the correct chord is D, let's go ahead and jump in and get the muscle memory developed for playing the correct chord that's called for.

Of course if we're playing a song that was written with D7 in the progression, fine and dandy, but when the song we're playing calls for a D....well, we should play a D...or at least be able to if we want! Just because the V7 sounds enough like the V is not reason enough to avoid learning the D chord. The D chord is harder, but you don't do your playing any justice by just falling back to D7. If a song book shows the song Lonesome Road Blues to a beginner, but it shows them to go ahead and play D7 because this is an easier chord, well that's not correct. L.R.B. doesn't have a D7 chord as written.

So at any rate, we're probably more on the same page than we realize. It may be true that in music theory, D7 is a legal substitution for D, and sounds close enough, but the point still stands...if the song calls for D, it calls for D. If you "stylize it up" or improvise it and change to a D7 by choice, well that's fine; it's artistic license. But if you play D7 because your instructional material was inferior and didn't even explain the full D chord to you, that's a problem.

Thanks Ryan! I'm glad you replied. Keep on picking!

"Banjo Paul" Pope
www.mybanjolife.com (blog)
www.banjosrule.com (main site)

Posted - 10/30/2009 :  12:14:53        

What about not fretting the 4th string.....it's still a D and it makes it alot easier.....it's actually more rooted in D than a D with two F#s.

There are three types of people in the world.....those who can count and those who can't!

Posted - 10/30/2009 :  12:43:58        

Love the name Pernicketylad!

I find that often when I'm playing the D-form D chord, I do a combination of ring finger on the 4th string/ring finger off the 4th string. I've got a couple of stock licks that involve dancing around on and off the 4th string. If you avoid the ring finger on 4th string because it's hard or you can't get all 4 fingers down, this is not a good reason to skip it. If you leave it off because you are being artistic and like the sound of the 4th string open amongst the rest of the D chord, that's fine and dandy. But...you need the ability to put all 4 fingers down when it comes time to move that chord to a different spot. No open strings once you've moved it!!

"Banjo Paul" Pope
www.mybanjolife.com (blog)
www.banjosrule.com (main site)

Edited by - banjopaul67 on 10/30/2009 12:45:20

Posted - 10/30/2009 :  12:49:15      

I use this D chord: 0230
then this one: 0234

The 4-finger one: 4234 is very difficult and frankly, I hardly ever use it.
I teach instead the G chord 9789 because the frets are closer together.

There are two issues with making the D shape. One is getting your ring finger on the right fret (unless you focus on some other finger).
The other is just making the right shape. I used to practice making full chords incessantly in front of the tv while I watched football. G (9789) to B (9879) and back again plucking to hear each note fully. Then G to C at the 10th fret (B slid up one) and back, then from D barre-7 to the G.

The harder chords are easier to learn higher up the neck.

Mike Moxcey
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html

Posted - 10/30/2009 :  14:56:57        

Yeah that occured to me alright Paul.....about moving it....I'd probably be too lazy to hit the 4th.
Maybe it's more of a Bluegrass concern anyway as opposed to OT.
I'm used to hitting bits of chords from my accompaniment of Irish music.....I rarely use three fingers never mind four......I keep it fairly modal unless it's really required.
I'd probably elect to not even play the 1st string F# but I'd imagine if you're playing Bluegrass it's important for arpeggio/rolls.


There are three types of people in the world.....those who can count and those who can't!

Posted - 10/30/2009 :  16:07:24        

After 2 years I still struggle, a lot quite frankly, with the D. I need all 4 fingers to play "The Ballad of Jed Clampett", and it darn near brings the song to a halt, but strumming I get along fine with the D7, but am now trying to rectify that by playing, as Minstrelmike states, playing it as 0230 and secondarily moving the pinky on the first string, which seems to work and sometimes I can get the 0234 down, but the 2nd and 3rd finger fight for that second string, in fact when strumming I don't use the 4th string, I dont like the sound of a full D chord when strumming, so I leave off the 4th string. I only use (or should I say attempt to use) a full D when it is needed for picking. If nothing else I'm glad to read that I'm not alone with the D struggle.

_______________________________________________________
Learning the Banjo isn't a race, so slow down and enjoy the ride.

2006 Gibson - Earl Scruggs Standard
2009 Gold Tone CC100R Plus

Edited by - Bizdoc on 10/30/2009 16:16:13

Posted - 10/30/2009 :  16:26:48        

Hey Bizdoc,

Thanks for commenting. Looks like you have some good workarounds and can make due in each situation. Very nice. Did you happen to check out my lesson page on my site to see my tips and tricks for making the D chord more manageable?

"Banjo Paul" Pope
www.mybanjolife.com (blog)
www.banjosrule.com (main site)

Posted - 10/31/2009 :  09:53:01      

quote:

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...in fact when strumming I don't use the 4th string, I dont like the sound of a full D chord when strumming, so I leave off the 4th string

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Edited by - minstrelmike on 10/31/2009 09:53:43

Posted - 10/31/2009 :  10:27:25    

If You are pickin guitar, in Key of G. --- G.--C--D7.. also when pickin in the Key of C on guitar C--F--G7, the extra 4th chord is not always, but usually D7, I also notice when going to the weekly jam, Most guitars pickers, when pickin in Key of G. ,,, G--C.--D7, with extra Chord A7,, most just use A,, It gets You by, but its not right, and if You listen close You can tell..


(Cowboy In Town, Trouble Expected)

Nechville. In Higginsville.

Lee Kelso

Edited by - pick1936 on 10/31/2009 10:29:18

Posted - 10/31/2009 :  17:36:45        

quote:

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Originally posted by banjopaul67

Hey Bizdoc,

Thanks for commenting. Looks like you have some good workarounds and can make due in each situation. Very nice. Did you happen to check out my lesson page on my site to see my tips and tricks for making the D chord more manageable?

"Banjo Paul" Pope
www.mybanjolife.com (blog)
www.banjosrule.com (main site)

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Posted - 10/31/2009 :  17:43:44      

Hmmmmm.... think I heard that somewhere before,... Oh yeah,... during the last lesson....
One thing I found that helps making the infamous D chord,.... stretch that left arm/wrist/ hand before playing. I had trouble hitting it cleanly at first...... Actually it helps to do before you do any playing.

Robes

Life is one grand, sweet song, so start the music.
Ronald Reagan

Life is a Joke.....drop dead is the punch line.
A great Linguist

Some days you're the bug; some days you're the windshield.
Life...

Posted - 11/01/2009 :  06:25:36        

Glad I came across this topic, made me backup. I had been skipping over Ballad of Jed Clampett because of the D, but I've decided to backup and focus on making the D correctly for a while, I always knew it would take practice to make the D, but didn't want to devote time to it, just wanted to keep moving ahead with tunes, but I've got to get back to basics and get this one down.

_______________________________________________________
Learning the Banjo isn't a race, so slow down and enjoy the ride.

2006 Gibson - Earl Scruggs Standard
2009 Gold Tone CC100R Plus

Posted - 11/01/2009 :  14:59:39        

Practiced the D a bit today, it's comming better. I liked something minstrelmike mentioned, that he likes the low "open" D string. I tried Ballad of Jed Clampett for a while again today, which was helpful, mostly working on the D chord, but not holding the D string and playing it open. I have to agree I like that open "lower" D sound. I recorded the Ballad this afternoon and posted it to my profile for comments of how others like the lower unfretted D, now remember I'm still working on thet D chord and it's a little hesitant when placing, but believe me it's better than it was, I think I'll focus on the D chord for a a few days to a week to get it better. Lots of good ideas from fellow pickers.

_______________________________________________________
Learning the Banjo isn't a race, so slow down and enjoy the ride.

2006 Gibson - Earl Scruggs Standard
2009 Gold Tone CC100R Plus

Posted - 11/01/2009 :  15:22:18        

Hey gang,

Thanks for making this thread a great conversation! I threw out the topic and offered a few pointers, but you guys are running with it. How cool is that? I love the B.H.O. forums and the "community". I wish we all lived close enough to get together, wouldn't that be a ton of fun?! We can all learn a lot from each other.

Hey Bizdoc: I listened to Ballad of Jed. Very nice work and keep it up. This is not a sprint but a marathon, so keep plugging away at it. You are improvising and doing what it takes to keep on picking when it comes to working with the D chord; don't let it hold you back but keep moving forward and working on it.

With that in mind, it'll be important to allocate some effort to getting that ring finger onto the 4th string (you really must do this in time) but, until then, you are "producing" and enjoying your instrument. That verson of "Jed" that you played is passable, sounds decent, and many beginning banjo students would give their eye teeth to be able to play that song from beginning to end like you did. But...without being critical, the song does suffer just a bit because you are missing some key melody notes: 4th string, 4th fret!! Those missing notes really leave a bit of a hole for the listener, or at least the listener who knows how to play the song or how it's supposed to go! L.O.L.

So...keep on picking and be proud that you can play The Ballad Of Jed Clampett all the way through, and don't hesitate to get it out and play it for anyone. But develop the desire to go 100% with it and train that left hand to make the reach with the ring finger. Keep working at it and it'll come.

"Banjo Paul" Pope
www.mybanjolife.com (blog)
www.banjosrule.com (main site)

Edited by - banjopaul67 on 11/01/2009 15:27:27

Posted - 11/01/2009 :  17:37:40        

That'll be my next step, the 4th finger. It's comming, just gotta keep working on it. Thanks

_______________________________________________________
Learning the Banjo isn't a race, so slow down and enjoy the ride.

2006 Gibson - Earl Scruggs Standard
2009 Gold Tone CC100R Plus