I'm looking for any input on why my banjo seems to be fretting sharp. When I tune her up in G (440) I'm finding that the fretted notes are coming up quite sharp. Does this mean I need a fret job? I don't have too much wear, though it is noticeable. Perhaps it's related to the nut or the truss rod?!?

Luke Auriemmo

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  10:51:50        

Bridge location is the most likely cause.It needs to be moved toward the tailpiece until the fretted notes are no longer going sharp.

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  10:52:45        

Move the bridge towards the tailpiece until the freted note is correct...

KL

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  11:02:28    

Unfortunately that's not the problem. I've got the bridge dialed in just fine with the upper frets by matching the harmonic on both the 12th and 19th frets versus the fretted notes on the 12th and 19th. The problem seems to be on the lower 12 frets and most noticeably on the first 5.

Luke Auriemmo

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  11:07:16        

I would check the neck relief, then yes maybe nut hieght. Have you changed string guages lately?

www.myspace.com/pepperlaingt...nestarkillers

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  11:09:42        

Has this banjo always had this problem or is it a new glitch.

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  11:11:18        

Try checking the open strings against the 12th fret fretted notes.
Do they agree?

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  11:21:41    

Yes Steve, they do agree which leads me to think that this is related somehow to the nut or the truss rod. And Pepper checking out the relief in the neck is probably my next step, but I don't have the keenest eye for it! When I'm in open G, it's not so noticeable. But when I have to capo things start getting a little hairy!

Luke Auriemmo

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  11:31:32            

i vote for neck relief because the same thing was happening to mine. after trying to intonate it with bridge movement for what seemed like forever- i finally thought to look at the neck bow and so after adjusting that my sharp problem pretty much went away.

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  11:48:36        

I'd check the nut. If it's too high fretted notes will be sharp. This would also explain things being sharp when using a capo. If you press the string down at the third fret, take a look at the distance between the string and the first fret. There should be a tiny gap there. Here is an excellent tutorial from Frank Ford:

http://frets.com/FRETSPages/Musicia...taction.html

-Larry
Chief #141

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  14:02:10  

yo jt:

quote:

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I tune her up in G (440) I'm finding that the fretted notes are coming up quite sharp

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quote:

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A440
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see A-440.
A440 or Concert A is the 440 Hz tone that serves as the standard for musical pitch.

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Edited by - jkmacman on 10/20/2009 14:02:39

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  15:25:44  

Using a capo=retuning.

John Gribble
Tokyo, Japan

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  15:49:46          

Try moving the bridge towards the tailpiece. Even though you say it dials in true. My harmonics are always just a tiny bit sharp and my intonation is right on the money. Try it, see if it helps any, if not you can always move it back. And if you're intonation becomes perfect and your harmonics are off, then go with that. How often do you use harmonics anyhow? :p
What kinda banjo is it?

Hunter
Cox Fairchild
Cox Carolina
Cox parts Raised Head

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  16:03:18    

My Savannah Travel's 3rd and 4th string fret sharp on the 2nd fret (but not on the 12th) in open G but is ok if I tune it up to open C. Go figure.

-August
The banjo, half wood-work, half plumbing.

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  17:22:09    

Harmonics are never sharp, or flat. They are by definition EXACTLY the note equal to the fraction of the string where you put your finger. For the 12th fret, the note will ALWAYS be exactly one octave above thhe open string. It is the physics of the vibrating string. The ONLY purpose of generating a harmonic is to generate a note, an octave above the open string, or the 4th above the octave (7th or 19th fret), or two octaves above the open string (5th fret), etc.

The only purpose of the harmonic when setting the bridge is to generate the note to compare the 12th fretted note to, or 19th fretted note to. They are also useful sometimes to generate the note of the open string in the higher octave where some tuners are more sensitive. This is particularly so with the low E on a guitar (I have have had several guitars where this was the only way to tune that string with a electronic tuner.)

As to the original question, it is usually the nut. Neck relief will only affect the notes in the higher frets (5 and up or so). However, if your strings are too heavy (heavier than the fret spacing is designed for), this could also happen. The other cause would be too heavy a fretting hand, really mashing those strings to the fretboard. The whole thing reduces to how stiff the strings are and how far you stretch them when you fret them. The heavier the strings and the further you have to stretch them, the sharper the note.

Nut slots in new banjos are often too high, compromising both playability and intonation. It is up to the owner or a setup guy to file them down to the required depth.

Gerry

BanjoSKP

Posted - 10/20/2009 :  17:51:21    

It's definitely not the bridge placement in this case. I tried it out because so many people suggested it and the notes remained equally sharp when fretted. So I'm going to assume that the problem lies in the nut. Perhaps I'll do a minor tweaking of the truss rod as well! I'll report back when I solve the problem! Thanks!

And thanks jkmacman for the theory tutorial but I figured mentioning being in 440 would simply denote (no pun intended) that I was in concert pitch tuning. Next time I'll include the (A)!

Luke Auriemmo

Posted - 10/22/2009 :  10:18:01        

You should be able to move your bridge far enough toward the tailpiece to make the fretted notes sound flat when compared to open or harmonic notes.

Edited by - steve davis on 10/22/2009 10:20:20

Posted - 10/22/2009 :  17:52:09          

Luke,
Eliminate the nut from the equation by slapping a capo on the first fret. You should be able to reproduce all of your bridge placement / harmonics tests by shifting all of your points up one fret. This question comes up several times a year on the forum, and hardly anyone ever suggests this as a way to eliminate the nut from being the suspect. Place the capo to produce clear notes, but don't install it so tightly that you can't easily tune the string.
If the problem goes away take a closer look at the nut. Same problem, look elsewhere.

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