Several people wanted to know how I figured out some pentatonic relationships. On secret is to read a ton of stuff, and then trying to expand the concepts. I read somewhere that playing a pentatonic something like a fourth over the intended scale leads to a lydian scale. I then tried to figure what a pentatonic over other intervals would sound like. However my biggest trick is my keyboard/scale sheet I made. One trick that I recommend is to take two sheets of normal paper and have both sheet long-to-long end over lap by about an inch and a half. Staple the sheets together and cover one side with duct tape to make it somewhat rigid. With a pencil draw a line dividing 3/4 of the sheet from 1/4. The three/forths side draw a fairly realistic piano keyboard stating with C and ending with C with one C in the middle. Two octaves. With the mock keyboard, it can be easier to see chords and count steps. On the smaller divide make a grid with the major scale going accross and the keys going down. the verticle axis will be from top to bottom C,Db,D,Eb to B and the horizional axis will be for C: C D E F G A B C, on down to B. I also put the whole-tone scale: C D E F# G# A# and C# D# F G A B, as well as the two diminished scales, C C# D# E F# G A# , and C D D# F F# G# A B C. Luckily the two whole-tones and two diminished scales are one size fits all, so one just has to derive the twelve major keys and two whole=ton and two diminished. Since this is a banjo forum, make a representation of a banjo neck in place of the keyboard as well. The real secret is to carry these two contructions with you on long trips such as airplane flights. I got more millage out of my keyboard mock up. The keyboard part is good to visualize certain chords like diminished, and the scale side is good for unlocking scale relations and voicings. Ron Frashure 1/17/00