diarmaid - Posted - 10/21/2008:  02:50:38

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tom Hanway

quote:

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Originally posted by diarmaid

Tom the "less is more" i was talking about was describing my points in as few words as possible.

i find links to the music im discussing, as it helps people understand what im talking about specifically. I wish i was at a high enough skill level that people would want to video me (or watch me) playing the banjo for youtube, and if i had played a tune well, i would have no problems with letting someone put it on youtube...im not committed to any major record label now and its unlikely i ever will be!.. and i play irish music...so royalties and copyright aren't really an issue for me...i'd be happy for any music i played to get to as wide an audience as possible

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So, okay, you are speaking as a non-professional who plays Irish music - I get it. That's one context. I get you now. Less is more. I agree with you that it is a good idea to reach as wide an audience as possible. Some people try to help others do this, without their permission, and "do-gooders" - I'm not pointing the finger at you - are not always helpful or appreciated by the artists whose original works and recordings may be at stake (for copyright control, mechanicals, royalities, residuals and the like).

I enjoyed the videos. Good stuff ... cheap.

Happy pickin,

Tom

http://www.tomhanway.com/discog.htm
http://www.tomhanway.com

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yes i am indeed relatively cheap

www.banjomafia.com check it out!

jimbo78 - Posted - 10/21/2008:  04:32:39

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Xylophone would do well....along with a lot of other Orchestra instruments.
Its my opinion that any serious musician playing any instrument will compliment Irish Banjo/ Celtic Music if they have a grasp of Celtic Music in the first place..

Got to support Diarmaid here. Ive listened to him play Authentic Irish banjo for almost 2 years. The guy is the real deal!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2FixGHKZcVc

Celtic music NEEDS MORE COWBELL!!!!!!!!!

JimBo

Tom Hanway - Posted - 10/21/2008:  09:40:05

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quote:

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Originally posted by diarmaid

yes i am indeed relatively cheap

www.banjomafia.com check it out!

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Who said that? Not me. It's all the YouTube videos and free mp3s that comprise what I like to describe as "good stuff ... cheap". You may have read into my description and taken it personally. There's no need for that, no offence was meant. Oh, dear, life is so unfair.

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Edited by - Tom Hanway on 10/21/2008 14:41:18

ndlxs - Posted - 10/21/2008:  09:42:42

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Just changed my mind on this last Sunday at the California Banjo Gathering: best complementing instrument would be Pete Grant's 8 string dobro, ably playing jigs with someone named Mick Maloney.

Andy Alexis
Sacramento, Calif

Tom Hanway - Posted - 10/21/2008:  09:58:14

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quote:

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Originally posted by ndlxs

Just changed my mind on this last Sunday at the California Banjo Gathering: best complementing instrument would be Pete Grant's 8 string dobro, ably playing jigs with someone named Mick Maloney.

Andy Alexis
Sacramento, Calif

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That's "Moloney" - go here: http://www.mickmoloney.com/

Geesh, you just can't get good help these days.... Hahaha!

Happy pickin,

Tom

http://www.tomhanway.com/discog.htm
http://www.tomhanway.com

ndlxs - Posted - 10/21/2008:  09:59:10

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Close enough for Irish Music...

Andy Alexis
Sacramento, Calif

Arsonic - Posted - 10/21/2008:  11:11:04

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I have to agree with you pweller. Accordion and banjo have to be the best combination for Irish music. Fortunately I do have an accordion player in my band, who is really good. We're also meeting with a whistle player today to possibly join our band. Pipes are his main instrument, so i'm sure we'll find out what the pipes sound like with accordion and banjo.

Tom Hanway - Posted - 10/21/2008:  11:15:11

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quote:

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Originally posted by ndlxs

Close enough for Irish Music...

Andy Alexis
Sacramento, Calif

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And good enough for government work. I'm sure Mick, as an Irishman, would appreciate your searing wit, if not your punctiliousness.

};^D>

Happy pickin,

Tom

http://www.tomhanway.com/discog.htm
http://www.tomhanway.com

ndlxs - Posted - 10/21/2008:  11:20:20

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Or, as we in government say, close enough for consultants...

Sorry, Mick, really, I am. I might add that the Emcee pronounced his name Malone....

Andy Alexis
Sacramento, Calif

Tom Hanway - Posted - 10/21/2008:  12:25:01

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quote:

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Originally posted by ndlxs

Or, as we in government say, close enough for consultants...

Sorry, Mick, really, I am. I might add that the Emcee pronounced his name Malone....

Andy Alexis
Sacramento, Calif

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Consult, v.t. To seek another's approval of a course already decided on.

~From Ambrose Bierce's The Devil's Dictionary

Happy pickin,

Tom

http://www.tomhanway.com/discog.htm
http://www.tomhanway.com

Tom Hanway - Posted - 10/21/2008:  14:47:47

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quote:

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Originally posted by jimbo78

Xylophone would do well....along with a lot of other Orchestra instruments.
Its my opinion that any serious musician playing any instrument will compliment Irish Banjo/ Celtic Music if they have a grasp of Celtic Music in the first place..

Got to support Diarmaid here. Ive listened to him play Authentic Irish banjo for almost 2 years. The guy is the real deal!

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2FixGHKZcVc

Celtic music NEEDS MORE COWBELL!!!!!!!!!

JimBo

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That's a real knee-slapper. Ha ha ha. Yes, MORE cowbell and GADULKA!!!!!!!!!

I support Diarmaid too, and I have paid him several compliments on his personal music files page (see his 'Mason's Apron'), which I highly recommend here on Banjo Hangout.

I still see a conflation of the terms "compliment" and "complement", but in your post JimBo, it occurs to me that you may be posturing yourself quixotically against an imaginary foe. I support Diarmaid and Irish traditional musicians 100%, especially in Ireland where I live and work with artists and composers.

I finished a traditional recording this afternoon with Leitrim flute player Noel Sweeney, now living in Longford. Noel is an All-Ireland flute champion who wrote a hornpipe set dance, 'The Happy Whistler', which is being choreographed as a new set dance here in Ireland. It's an authentic recording for authentic set dancing. Irish traditional music is also dance music. It's not all about bashing out tunes for the punters.

Noel already won an award for the tune, after submitting it to a panel of music adjudicators in Dublin, who picked his piece out of 27 submissions, which then got narrowed to 5. Eventually his piece was chosen as the best sounding tune for a new traditional set dance. He won prize money for this too, which was an unexpected result. I’ll get the name of the organisation later. Maybe we'll put the tune up here, but first it's going to dance schools.

'The Happy Whistler' was written specifically for Irish traditional set dancers, for teachers and schools - a piece of tradition for posterity. He plans to give it to dance teachers on both sides of the Atlantic to add something new to the tradition.

Noel paid me a big compliment by asking me to transcribe the music (from a tape he made me), and then produce the sessions. Paul Gurney did the recording and mixing. For melody instruments we used flute (Noel), button accordion (Sean Thompson) and 5-string banjo; for backing instruments we used acoustic guitar (Sean Sweeney), piano (Gurney) and light percussion (Gurney).

The percussion was essential as a complementing rhythm to help lock in the dancers. Today we mixed and mastered two versions, at 76 BPM and 80 BPM. Maybe I'll put it up on my music files page, but it was made for an altogether different purpose - where people will appreciate it and learn from it.

Earlier this year I helped Noel with production and mastering on The Whinny Hills of Leitrim, his groundbreaking CD. A review in Irish Music Magazine (March 2008) is below:

http://www.irishmusicmagazine.com/r...ses/0803mar/


Happy pickin,

Tom

http://www.tomhanway.com/discog.htm
http://www.tomhanway.com

DanielT - Posted - 10/21/2008:  14:49:59

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Every time I come back to this thread it's different. All the posts are in different places. What's the deal?

Tom Hanway - Posted - 10/22/2008:  00:53:35

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I separated one of my earlier posts because it was two replies in one - too long and too confusing. I had done it another way, but after a nap, I reversed the the two posts. Writer's prerogative. I had replied to JimBo in the post above, which I moved in the end to here, because I didn't want it to get obscured by a what I consider to be an Irish-bashing post that is unhelpful and unnecessary in a thread that young people are reading. I see this as an example of ugly Americanism (prejudice). People have some cheek. Some ethnic jokes just aren't that funny.

I see subtle ethnic slurs all the time here, so I hopped JimBo's reply over that wasteland, because his, at least deserves a serious and thoughtful reply, not a one-liner. It was in the wrong place, being with a reply to another writer.

I'm simply ignoring any more Irish-downing posts, which are a form of bigotry (and immature in my view). That's my prerogative because I believe in what I do and what I say. It's not for show. I will also not be hurt by ad hominem (personal) attacks or innuendo because I put my ideas out there. I care.

Daniel T. Thank you for paying attention. I wish people would read what I say, think about it, then reply to the positions before reacting immediately to the different style or length of my posts. I'm not into one-liners or "firecrackers". Some folks have short attention spans and go after the writer.

I separated two posts here for clarity. No harm intended. I want to be loud and clear when Irish music is getting bashed. People love to attack the writer or his style instead of his ideas. I'm not here for the popularity contest or ego trip.

Happy pickin,

Tom

http://www.tomhanway.com/discog.htm
http://www.tomhanway.com

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Edited by - Tom Hanway on 10/22/2008 01:18:50

Banjowen - Posted - 10/22/2008:  01:53:21

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I like to hear a "good" guitar player and banjo ,...I've followed this topic with interest, but alas once again it's being ruined by people who are going over the top with their l o n g drawn out fancy worded "you've gotta listen to me" boring self-promoting essay's, so I'd best leave this topic before I blow a fuse.....again !
PS, I hope I've spelled everything right and placed my full stops and comma's in the right places. (probably not so please forgive me).

Owen.

http://www.banjohollow.ic24.net/index.htm

Tom Hanway - Posted - 10/22/2008:  01:56:27

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quote:

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Originally posted by Banjowen

I like to hear a "good" guitar player and banjo ,...I've followed this topic with interest, but alas once again it's being ruined by people who are going over the top with their l o n g drawn out fancy worded "you've gotta listen to me" boring self-promoting essay's, so I'd best leave this topic before I blow a fuse.....again !
PS, I hope I've spelled everything right and placed my full stops and comma's in the right places. (probably not so please forgive me).

Owen.

http://www.banjohollow.ic24.net/index.htm

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That's a personal attack - not the first time - and, again, it's highly insulting. It's also violating the first rule of Banjo Hangout. In review, FYI:

No personal attacks. If you don't agree with what someone posted, debate their post... not the person that posted it. Criticizing a concept is ok--criticizing the person is not.

No profanity or racial/religious slurs. Keep in mind that these forums are visited by people of all ages and backgrounds. Besides.. a foul mouth doesn't really impress anyone.

Some posts are only about links, with little or no explanation:

Postings consisting only of links are not allowed. If your post contains a link to another site, please explain the purpose of the link or write some thoughts about the content you're linking to.

Happy pickin,

Tom

http://www.tomhanway.com/discog.htm
http://www.tomhanway.com

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Edited by - Tom Hanway on 10/22/2008 02:11:11

Banjowen - Posted - 10/22/2008:  02:28:19

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Oh dear,...who's attacking who here, I never mentioned anybody's name my friend, ask yourself why should you feel it's about you.

Owen.

http://www.banjohollow.ic24.net/index.htm

Tom Hanway - Posted - 10/22/2008:  03:37:31

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quote:

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Originally posted by Banjowen

Oh dear,...who's attacking who here, I never mentioned anybody's name my friend, ask yourself why should you feel it's about you.

Owen.

http://www.banjohollow.ic24.net/index.htm

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That's just baiting, obvious harassment, yet another ludicrous attack - not the first time - and, again, it's highly insulting and extremely rude. It's like Bugs Bunny: "Dog pile on the rabbit, dog pile on the rabbit, dog pile on the rabbit." What's up, doc?

Once again, your baiting and leading questions are ad hominem (personal) in nature, and these insults go against the first rule of Banjo Hangout. In review - I think the mods will see where this is going, but here's a reminder:

No personal attacks. If you don't agree with what someone posted, debate their post... not the person that posted it. Criticizing a concept is ok--criticizing the person is not.

No profanity or racial/religious slurs. Keep in mind that these forums are visited by people of all ages and backgrounds. Besides.. a foul mouth doesn't really impress anyone.

Some posts are only about links, with little or no explanation:

Postings consisting only of links are not allowed. If your post contains a link to another site, please explain the purpose of the link or write some thoughts about the content you're linking to.

Happy pickin,

Tom

http://www.tomhanway.com/discog.htm
http://www.tomhanway.com

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Edited by - Tom Hanway on 10/22/2008 05:26:04

Tom Hanway - Posted - 10/22/2008:  04:03:05

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quote:

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Originally posted by Arsonic

I have to agree with you pweller. Accordion and banjo have to be the best combination for Irish music. Fortunately I do have an accordion player in my band, who is really good. We're also meeting with a whistle player today to possibly join our band. Pipes are his main instrument, so i'm sure we'll find out what the pipes sound like with accordion and banjo.

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Arsonic, thanks for your thoughts here. I love this combination too, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the pipes will work out grand with accordion and banjo. Is that button or piano accordion?

When I had to do the accompanying recording for the Mel Bay book, Complete Book of Irish & Celtic 5-String Banjo, (1998) to complement the banjo and to show real chord possibilities and substitutions, I used either piano or guitar, actually nylon and steel string, also bodhrán, played in a highly ornamented style. That was enough to complement the banjo to get the tunes across for learning purposes (68 tunes). That book is 182 pages long and has a cross-referenced Glossary, which alone took me about six months to research and write. The book took four years to compile. I won't quote from it here. Haha!

It IS about the player, and for guitar and piano I got Gabriel Donohue, who works with the Boston Pops, when they need Irish guitar to complement the orchestral arrangements. Gabriel improvises! On bodhrán I enlisted Robbie Walsh, who was the 2008 All-Ireland Fleadh Champion.

These guys are AMAZING, and why should I mind giving them a compliment or telling people about them? (People would edit your style and length of posts ... and that's just condoning censorship.) Folks can hear Gabriel and Robbie on my Banjo Hangout mp3s.

People, even folks who know better, get hung up on words like "Traditional" and "Authentic" - these are buzz words that people, in reacting, use to hurt each other, often by innuendo or implication. I have no time for that nonsense.

Find the All-Ireland Fleadh Champions listed here. Noel Sweeney is here too:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...dh_Champions


Happy pickin,

Tom

http://www.tomhanway.com/discog.htm
http://www.tomhanway.com

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Edited by - Tom Hanway on 10/23/2008 09:31:33

Lambington - Posted - 10/22/2008:  04:07:43

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Just got back from a session, must say having a fiddler either side of you in friendly competition will drown you out fairly easily. Think I need a louder axe...

Tom Hanway - Posted - 10/22/2008:  04:19:36

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Lambington, you may want to try a new higher bridge and/or new head. Go for something brighter. You can make a banjo louder or cut more by the set-up.

Happy pickin,

Tom

http://www.tomhanway.com/discog.htm
http://www.tomhanway.com

Lambington - Posted - 10/22/2008:  04:49:12

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Don't worry, I can get volume enough volume out of it when I want to, and when the fiddlers get going I'm left far behind anyway

BTW, I haven't been able to get out of that session without playing Boru's march since I first bought it up a few months ago, sounds fantastic backed with a good DADGAD guitarist and a flute.

Cheers, Will

Tom Hanway - Posted - 10/22/2008:  05:00:48

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lambington

Don't worry, I can get volume enough volume out of it when I want to, and when the fiddlers get going I'm left far behind anyway

BTW, I haven't been able to get out of that session without playing Boru's march since I first bought it up a few months ago, sounds fantastic backed with a good DADGAD guitarist and a flute.

Cheers, Will

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Awesome. DADGAD is great for modal stuff. Gee, I need to start playing that one again. Are you using the tuning I gave in the book? I went back to playing it in standard G, but I miss that raised mountain minor sound. It's such a concert piece that I don't mind re-tuning in that particular instance. Still it could throw you off at a session, unless you have your Keith tuners set up, to go from B to C and back down again quickly. I must try it again. I don't hear it at sessions much, but I like playing it for school assemblies, and talking about Brian Boru. It's a bit of history and a fun topic for school kids.


Happy pickin,

Tom

http://www.tomhanway.com/discog.htm
http://www.tomhanway.com

Lambington - Posted - 10/22/2008:  05:07:52

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I'm playing it in sawmill like the book, but it does sound quite sweet capo'ed up to A-minor. I found a version on thesession.org that is all the same notes but the rhythm is a little more interesting. It loses (some of) the stark mood that I really liked about the piece to begin with but still sounds good.

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Edited by - Lambington on 10/22/2008 05:08:32

Tom Hanway - Posted - 10/22/2008:  05:18:10

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quote:

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Originally posted by Lambington

I'm playing it in sawmill like the book, but it does sound quite sweet capo'ed up to A-minor. I found a version on thesession.org that is all the same notes but the rhythm is a little more interesting. It loses (some of) the stark mood that I really liked about the piece to begin with but still sounds good.

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I'll check it out, is it still three parts? I think my source for that tune was an old recording of the Irish-trad-rock band, Horslips, with really haunting war-like bodhrán. It's very moving music, the whole album, called the "Book of Invasions: A Celtic Symphony". Want to hear some electric backing, before Thin Lizzy?

It proves that electric guitar (and a full hard-rocking band) can back Irish trad tunes and bring it to a younger audience. These guys were years before their time. There's also a lovely song on it, 'Sword of Light' which is written to the well-known reel, 'Toss the Feathers' - go here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRKV8UjzNQA

The Corrs recorded this recently, go here to hear a live version and to see the girls in action - awesome stage performers, and beautiful:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHjS8Oz8Gkg

Theirs is different from the older setting that somebody like Sean Keane (fiddler with the Chieftains) or Tommy Peoples would play, but you can hear that it's the same tune, with some of the ornamentation left out.

There are a lot of tunes and settings for 'Toss the Feathers', in various keys. I play three of them, and that's plenty for now.

Happy pickin,

Tom

http://www.tomhanway.com/discog.htm
http://www.tomhanway.com

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Edited by - Tom Hanway on 10/22/2008 06:02:00

Lambington - Posted - 10/22/2008:  05:25:34

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The one listed is a four part, but I only play the first three. The fourth sounds like a derivative of the second. Just listened to that version again, I think I'm playing something halfway in between the two now...
Speaking of a little unorthodox rock in Irish music, I saw one of the local folk bands playing a set of reels with a drum solo in the last. Far from traditional but really added some punch to the whole sound.

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Edited by - Lambington on 10/22/2008 05:35:01

Tom Hanway - Posted - 10/22/2008:  05:30:38

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Hey, check out the Corrs video in my last post - there's a drum solo there too - a bodhrán player (Caroline Corr) who can play full rock drums. AMAZING. It's Celtic rock or Irish rock, whatever you want to call it, but it's a crossover style, and it works in stadiums for large audiences. Rock drums can complement traditional tune players. This proves it, just as Horslips proved it three decades before.

I must check out this fourth part.... What's that link? Okay, found it, it's in ABC, but also in standard - 'Brian Boru's March':

http://www.thesession.org/tunes/dis...1#sheetmusic

You would be interested in Maurice Lennon's album "Brian Boru - The High King of Tara". Maurice, from a family of traditional musicians based in Leitrim, wrote a whole bunch of material and did this fine tribute to Boru. My wife and I went to a release party for the album a few years ago, and it was really beautiful.

Maurice is a lovely story-teller and a sweet man. Highly recommended. He always uses fine backing musicians, sometimes in unusual combinations. He played with Irish banjoist Kieran Hanrahan in Stockton's Wing, with the amazing Tommy Hayes on bodhrán. Go here to read about this legendary group, and to find out what instruments and combinations they used in backing Irish banjo and traditional tunes in general - good history here:

http://www.taramusic.com/biogs/stocktons.htm

Back in 2003, we went to the Stockton's Wing re-union concert in Ennis, Co. Clare, a great town for music. In the lobby I got to shake hands with Ronnie Drew (Dubliners - recently deceased) and had a drink at the pub with Paddy Reilly, whom I hadn't seen since my New York days playing trad at Paddy Reilly's Music Bar. (I got to open for Paddy once at Roaring 20s, one of the many Irish music clubs in the Bronx (Bainbridge) back in the 80s-90s ... good old days.)

Thanks for the input Lambington. Stockton's Wing has tried different backing instruments (acoustic and electric) for Irish trad, and had some mighty banjo players.

Happy pickin,

Tom

http://www.tomhanway.com/discog.htm
http://www.tomhanway.com

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Edited by - Tom Hanway on 10/22/2008 13:21:14

Lambington - Posted - 10/22/2008:  05:37:00

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Try this
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/271

And if you don't know about it yet, copy and drop the ABC into this
http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html

jimbo78 - Posted - 10/22/2008:  06:43:31

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I think a harder question to answer {for me anyway} is what instrument doesn't complement the Irish/Celtic style banjo in a Irish/Celtic setting?


[Quote Tom Hanway]
"I still see a conflation of the terms "compliment" and "complement", but in your post JimBo, it occurs to me that you may be posturing yourself quixotically against an imaginary foe."[End Quote]



LOL I seriously don't understand them words. I looked'em all up but I'm still lost. I think you may be reading too far into a miss spelling cause I didn't even know for sure how to spell compliment or complement. I didn't know they was a difference in the two, or even a two at all. I just used the spell check. Them spell checks ain't perfect by "know" means.

There is an "imaginary foe" though Mr.Hanway. Keeps telling me to J.B.Weld the hinges to all the public bathroom doors at the mall. Its a battle.

JimBo

kimmattis123 - Posted - 10/22/2008:  06:48:21

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CASE OF GUINNESS! GOES WELL WITH ALL IRISH MUSIC

baileboy - Posted - 10/22/2008:  15:22:05

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Big thanks to all the people who have posted on this topic. As a beginner trad tenor player these topics are fascinating and very motivating.

As a beginner the only other instrument I've heard with the banjo is another banjo....sometimes my teacher will play a simple rhythm on his tenor when I'm playing - I have to say I love the sound.

Lambington - Posted - 10/22/2008:  15:26:15

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Thanks for that source on Brian Boru, I was looking for some info on him a few weeks back for curiosities sake and didn't really get any further than wikipedia.
That Corrs video rings pretty familiar, I'm surprised since I'm sure that tune gets dragged up once a month or so at one of the weekly sessions around here.

I haven't heard anything that doesn't fit if it is played well. I haven't played anything publicly outside of a session, so backup is usually whoever knows the tune or knows how to back up anything. Fiddles, flutes, button boxes, guitars, whistles, mandolins, mandocellos, bodhran, spoons, pipes, concertina, (once in a while even another banjo) are usually expected at sessions around here, ukuleles aren't unheard of and I've even seen a Oud at one. There's word of a hurdy-gurdy arriving soon, should be fun!

That said, nothing beats an accordian, a decent pint and a rowdy crowd

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Edited by - Lambington on 10/22/2008 16:20:31