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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Recording King pot.


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daddycool - Posted - 07/19/2012:  07:01:48


Good morning folks, I got my Recording King banjo pot PB681 from Banjo. Com yesterday and it really looks to be a great buy for the money. It has everything included except a head and coordinator rods.The tone ring looks nice is heavy with a nice ring when held up and struck. The only thing I didn't like was the ring to rim fit. It just seems too loose.Probably about a 64th inch of space between the rim and ring. My question is do I shim the ring behind the neck bolt holes? Seems to me if I don't when the neck to ring fit is tightened down the ring will slide on the rim backwards and raise the action. I appreciate any info on this issue. Thanks kindly, Lee

dickinnorwich - Posted - 07/19/2012:  08:49:18



I'm not getting how it will raise your action. If the ring is too loose on the rim, when the neck is tightened down the ring may not make consistently good contact along the top surface of the rim. That may, or may not, affect the acoustic but it shouldn't have any affect on the action. 



If it bothers you, then the quick fix is to run some masking tape along the edge of the rim to snug up the fit. But first I'd set it up and test it out, as is. If the sound doesn't grab you, then you have other options.  



BTW, I love that tone ring. It's got to be one of the best buys on the market.



Edited by - dickinnorwich on 07/19/2012 08:50:24

Joe Brown - Posted - 07/19/2012:  10:25:13



Yes, just run a layer of masking tape around the rim. The important contact area for the tone ring is the top edge of the rim. An action adjustment can be done with the upper coordinator rod. You can also adjust the brightness of your banjo using that upper rod. I know many are afraid to use those rods for action adjustments, but, that's why they're there. Just remember to make those adjustments, so that the rods are pushing against the heel of the neck. Don't ever try to lower the action by pulling the heel in with the lower rod-you will more than likely pull the lag bolt out of the neck. So, always push with the bottom rod to increase the action and push with the top to decrease the action. 



Edited by - Joe Brown on 07/19/2012 10:27:20

Goldstarman - Posted - 07/19/2012:  10:42:57



My advice is to do nothing. Ive tried the tape thing and personally I took it back off and could tell a difference. I have a rk-75 with a very very loose fit......the sound is killer and I wouldnt change a thing


daddycool - Posted - 07/19/2012:  11:21:09



Thanks folks, Dick, I have one banjo with a loose ring and where the neck makes contact with the ring( upper lag bolt) I have had the ring slide on the pot allowing the neck to ever so litely tilt upwards and detune. That was what I was refering to.. I am very impressed with how this pot looks as far as quality of parts. Looking forward to hearing what she sounds like, Lee


mikehalloran - Posted - 07/19/2012:  11:25:38



It is probable that the fit is closer than 1/64" but, I don't have it in-hand to check with a feeler gauge. I am from the "better a little too lose than too tight" school. As long as there is great contact at the top, I'd leave it alone.


dickinnorwich - Posted - 07/19/2012:  11:29:48



I think you're going to be really pleasantly surprised (read, blown away) by this banjo. Conversely, I'll be really surprised if you aren't.



I'm not, by nature, a flathead guy but this flathead really does it. It's got everything. It can be sweet or it can be a street fighter, if need be. If you lean on it, it won't take a back seat to anything. Good luck with it.


Kevin B - Posted - 07/19/2012:  12:05:59



I don't thinga ring no looser than that will be a problem at all.  I noticed they even have those on Amazon direct from them not a 3rd party.  As a mtter of fact they stock many RK parts at Amazon.com amazon.com/Recording-King-PB-6...banjo+pot


RioStat - Posted - 07/19/2012:  12:37:36



I have had several rims / ring with extremely loose fit. I have never, ever heard of / or seen a ring "slide" around. Especially enough to jack a neck out of alignment. Especially with 24 hooks and nuts tightened down to tension.



 



Not sayin' I don't believe you, just sayin' I never seen anything like that happen.


5 finger ninja - Posted - 07/19/2012:  15:18:03


my flinthill had the same problem, the top of the rim didnt touch the tonering, about 1/16 off i think. I cut a ring out of a cardboard box and made a shim that fit perfectly in between the rim and ring. It was a nice tight fit too :) It made a huge improvement in volume and tone. I would do that and a little masking tape around the out edge of rim. I liked the way it sounded before but love it now.

lightgauge - Posted - 07/19/2012:  15:21:51



I have experienced what you describe and the tape is a cure or sanding some off the bottom of the heel pad where it bottoms against the small bead above the flange. I feel for best sound , it should contact both places, on the ring and the bare wood below it.


chickenpickin - Posted - 07/19/2012:  15:38:52



Once you tighten the head the ring will stay put. I'd leave it alone and just make sure the top of the rim is making good contact with the ring all the way around. Your action will be determined by the neck heel angle and where your lag bolts are situated. If your using a neck with existing lag bolts you will just have to mount it up and see how high the fretboard is going to be at the hoop. Sometimes the upper lag bolt may not line perfectly with the tone ring hole. You can ( and I have done this) notch the hole in the ring. This gives you room for some up and down movement. It's an excellent pot for the money.



Tim


steve davis - Posted - 07/19/2012:  16:52:21


Put it together and see how it sounds just the way it is.

daddycool - Posted - 07/20/2012:  07:43:01


Thanks so much guys, Guess I'll leave her be and see what happens. I have one other question. Drilling the rim coordinator rod lag holes. Of course the top one goes through the ring hole but how much lower does the second one go by mastertone specs? Then what kind of drill (guessing angle head) do you use for the rear of the upper rod? I had a problem in the past with the bit wanting to wobble to the side and making the hole too large. I can manage but I'd rather ask experts than make a mess. This is my last build it will be for my son. I truly enjoy tinkering with five strings.

dickinnorwich - Posted - 07/20/2012:  07:48:42



If I'm understanding you correctly, I use a brad point bit in order to avoid the problem you describe. I oversize the bit I chose by about 1/64th. Here's a photo drilling from the inside.



Edited by - dickinnorwich on 07/20/2012 07:51:02



   

wuzapicker - Posted - 07/20/2012:  08:22:37


My Y2K Gibson RB3 has a loose fitted ring that slides around (when the head is off) between 1/16" and 3/32" depending on direction. But when I tighten the head before mounting the neck, the ring does not move at all. The tightly tensioned head holds the ring nicely in place. Bolting the neck onto the banjo does not move the tone ring at all.

The RB3 sounds pretty good as it is. But I've always wondered if it would sound better with a slip fit to the rim. I think the 1/64" the OP cites might be fine considering the effects of weather and humidity. If my RB3's ring fit that closely, I wouldn't complain about it at all.

My old Baldwin-Ode CSR's tone ring is so loose that it took five layers of masking tape to fill the void. I didn't feel masking tape was a good solution. That banjo is kind of quiet anyway and the tape only makes is more so. So I pulled the masking tape out and tightened the head down and played the thing as is for several years. Now, I keep the CSR for collector's value since the neck is too skinny for my fat fingers to enjoy. It needs fret work anyway.

Maybe when I get consumption and waste away my CSR will become viable again. For the meantime, my Y2K RB3 outperforms my Baldwin Ode CSR in every way anyway.

Banjophobic - Posted - 07/20/2012:  09:09:28



That small amount of 'slop' isnt enough to worry about, but if you do want to 'center the ring and prevent that movement, masking tape can be used but only in small quantity.  You can cut 4 small squares of masking tape and place them at the 11-2-8-4 oclock positions on the rim.



If the thickness of those pieces isnt enough to stop the 'slop', I do not recommend you keep layering tape. Multiple layers of tape is definitely a 'quick' fix for a horribly fit ring, but its also a terrible choice for the best interests of tone of your banjo. If you need layers of tape to get a ring to fit, then that's a sure sign you need a real , proper, fix. I use real maple to build up the rim for the proper fit of the ring if the gap. 



If you are on a limited budget, or dont have access to a repairman, you do what you must at times. But 'layers of tape' is not the best fix for sloppy ring fit issues. wink



 



 


silvioferretti - Posted - 07/20/2012:  12:28:22



One thing that always amazes me is the fact that very often the heel is not cut properly for the flange, i.e. that it contact the flange first. This prevents the heel from touching the rim above and below the flange. A couple strokes with a gouge are usually enough to take care of this issue. Which seems to be the problem with your banjo, IMO...


daddycool - Posted - 07/21/2012:  05:23:00


Silvio, What you just said is the very thing that happened to me a couple of years ago. I took a Washburn B-17 to a luther to have the neck worked on as the action was just too high. When I brought it home I just could not get the darn thing to sound right.I worked on a couple of weeks with no success. I decided to tear it down and look. I found the neck rocking on the flange. I took a grinder and filed some of the wood away where the flange fits and everything was fine. It sure was good to have found the problem but it wasn't the easiest thing to find. I appreciate your reply, Lee

daddycool - Posted - 07/21/2012:  05:23:47


Silvio, What you just said is the very thing that happened to me a couple of years ago. I took a Washburn B-17 to a luther to have the neck worked on as the action was just too high. When I brought it home I just could not get the darn thing to sound right.I worked on a couple of weeks with no success. I decided to tear it down and look. I found the neck rocking on the flange. I took a grinder and filed some of the wood away where the flange fits and everything was fine. It sure was good to have found the problem but it wasn't the easiest thing to find. I appreciate your reply, Lee

nakigreengrass - Posted - 07/21/2012:  22:31:56



Loose tonering, no problem. Don't use gummy tape's for shim's, Just use your hand plane to shave a maple shim, use a wooden mallet to tap your plane if it's to thick to push.



Edited by - nakigreengrass on 07/21/2012 22:36:59



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