beezaboy - Posted - 02/29/2012:  08:51:18

We have been discussing Stewart Plectrum Banjo in separate thread.  banjohangout.org/topic/229305/2/#2912663 

This thread inquires about the history of the Plectrum Banjo in general.

When and by whom was the Plectrum Banjo concieved?

Why?

Who was the first manufacturer to make a Plectrum Banjo?

Here is an interesting June 13, 1914 advertisement by Walter Jacobs publishing house.  The ad offers musical arrangements for the Plectrum Banjo as part of the Mandolin Orchestra.  mtr.arcade-museum.com/MTR-1914...4-147.pdf 

Do you suppose that the 4-string Plectrum Banjo was concieved to supply a plectral banjo voice in the Mandolin Orchestra and that was its original purpose?  Of course, the 5-string banjo had been a part of Mandolin Orchestras prior to 1914.  But the finger style technique for playing the 5-string had at least one major drawback, namely, the difficulty in sustaining notes.  Very few classic finger style 5-string banjoists could tremolo successfully.  A 4-string banjo built upon the regular (regulation) banjo model and played with a pick could be made to render a desireable tremolo and sustain the notes required by the musical piece chosen for the Mandonlin orchestra.

gary schumann - Posted - 02/29/2012:  11:41:49

thiis is an interesting subject not too many BHO POSTS for 4 string banjo.  i kind of feel that 5 string banjos are the norm ill be inerested in the outcome i dont know the answer to this question  the scale length of my 3 plectrum banjo are a 1/2 longer than my 2 5 string banjos this leads me to think they were after more base responce but that is just an observation gary

trapdoor2 - Posted - 02/29/2012:  11:45:25

I don't know where you got this: "Very few classic finger style 5-string banjoists could tremolo successfully." 

Considering it was a commonly taught technique, I would only say that it was simply not particularly popular. Whether they were using the 'finger wiggle' or some variation...I dunno. The technique isn't well documented by recordings...but that doesn't really mean much.

Re: Plectrum Banjo

I think it might be well to explore exactly why we needed to name an instrument after a technique. We don't speak of "Plectrum Guitars" or "Plectrum Mandolins". Why then do we need a "plectrum banjo"? Take 2 strings off of a guitar and it becomes a "tenor guitar" (ok, somewhat shorter scale too). Until the plectrum came along, we only altered the name of the banjo to differentiate certain size changes. Of course, it probably boils down to $$$ (follow the money). From a marketing standpoint, product differentiation is what it is all about when dealing with similar items. Stewart well knew how to do that...but I wonder what ol' SSS (had he lived that long) would have named the 4-string beastie? Sostenuto-Banjo? Viola-Banjo? He avoided musical range nomenclature (like Baritone, Tenor, etc.).

In 1914, fingerstyle banjo was pretty much at its peak...but larger halls and dance bands were on the rise. Loonies like Eddie Ross were strumming along (he, on a 5-string)...but he wouldn't make it to wax for another 7-8 yrs. AFAIK, nobody else was "strumming". It makes me wonder just what Walter Jacobs meant by "Plectrum Banjo". Could he have meant something other than our modern instrument?

Edited by - trapdoor2 on 02/29/2012 11:47:57

NYCJazz - Posted - 02/29/2012:  12:07:54

quote:

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Originally posted by trapdoor2

 We don't speak of "Plectrum Guitars" or "Plectrum Mandolins". Why then do we need a "plectrum banjo"? Take 2 strings off of a guitar and it becomes a "tenor guitar" (ok, somewhat shorter scale too).

 

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Actually, steel string standard guitars were referred to as "plectrum guitars". I have a Roy Smeck book from the 20's that is a collection of "Blues for Plectrum Guitar" and is arranged for 6 string.

4-string plectrum guitars were made, but are VERY rare. I have a long scale Harmony Smeck Vita-Guitar. 

trapdoor2 - Posted - 02/29/2012:  12:36:51

quote:

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Originally posted by NYCJazz

quote:

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Originally posted by trapdoor2

 We don't speak of "Plectrum Guitars" or "Plectrum Mandolins". Why then do we need a "plectrum banjo"? Take 2 strings off of a guitar and it becomes a "tenor guitar" (ok, somewhat shorter scale too).

 

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Actually, steel string standard guitars were referred to as "plectrum guitars". I have a Roy Smeck book from the 20's that is a collection of "Blues for Plectrum Guitar" and is arranged for 6 string.

4-string plectrum guitars were made, but are VERY rare. I have a long scale Harmony Smeck Vita-Guitar. 

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Vita-Guitar, the one that looks like it has seals (Pinniped) for sound-holes?

You know what? I think I remember having a book for "Plectrum Guitar" when I was a kid. We had a Stella guitar (cheap, awful, etc.) and a book...which had a green cover. I don't think it was a Smeck book...but something like that.

Ah well, a name that didn't stick. Why did it for the PB?

beezaboy - Posted - 02/29/2012:  13:05:48

quote:

---

Originally posted by trapdoor2

I don't know where you got this: "Very few classic finger style 5-string banjoists could tremolo successfully." 

Considering it was a commonly taught technique, I would only say that it was simply not particularly popular. Whether they were using the 'finger wiggle' or some variation...I dunno. The technique isn't well documented by recordings...but that doesn't really mean much.

Re: Plectrum Banjo

I think it might be well to explore exactly why we needed to name an instrument after a technique. We don't speak of "Plectrum Guitars" or "Plectrum Mandolins". Why then do we need a "plectrum banjo"? Take 2 strings off of a guitar and it becomes a "tenor guitar" (ok, somewhat shorter scale too). Until the plectrum came along, we only altered the name of the banjo to differentiate certain size changes. Of course, it probably boils down to $$$ (follow the money). From a marketing standpoint, product differentiation is what it is all about when dealing with similar items. Stewart well knew how to do that...but I wonder what ol' SSS (had he lived that long) would have named the 4-string beastie? Sostenuto-Banjo? Viola-Banjo? He avoided musical range nomenclature (like Baritone, Tenor, etc.).

In 1914, fingerstyle banjo was pretty much at its peak...but larger halls and dance bands were on the rise. Loonies like Eddie Ross were strumming along (he, on a 5-string)...but he wouldn't make it to wax for another 7-8 yrs. AFAIK, nobody else was "strumming". It makes me wonder just what Walter Jacobs meant by "Plectrum Banjo". Could he have meant something other than our modern instrument?

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 1.  *I don't know where you got this...*  Alfred A. Farland (and others explaining why the tenor banjo eclipsed the 5-string during ragtime and jazz eras) - Farland wrote in The Cadenza (April 1912) "Owing to the poor tone produced by the average finger-player, coupled with his inability to sustain notes, the banjo has heretofore been unwelcome in the orchestra, either regular or mandolin."  Farland continuing...."For the reasons previously stated they [orchestra parts] are as a rule beyond the abilities of the average finger player, who either cannot or will not master the necessary tremolo movement which requires several years of practice as against several months in the case of a pick player".

2.  For this thread I have referred to the plectrum banjo as "Plectrum Banjo" because that is what the trade named it in the teens.  (Plectrum Banjo attached just for fun).

3.  Walter Jacobs advertised music arrangements for "Plectrum Banjo" in the mandolin orchestra in 1914.  The purpose of this thread is to see if our associates here have information about the birth and evolution of the Plectrum Banjo.  Reese has written that Rettberg & Lange Orpheum began advertising its Plectrum Banjo in 1918.

Plectrum Banjo

tdennis - Posted - 02/29/2012:  17:03:47

I think at this early period the word, "plectrum" was loosely  applied to the mandolin banjo ( tango,tenor,  &   melody banjo ?), & may not mean the long scale 4 string.   I suppose  w/out a picture, or an extended description, testimonial,  or mention of  a neck length or scale, the references to "plectrum"  may remain ambiguous.   ( however, I notice the Jacobs Plectrum Banjo part was written for  C notation.  Perhaps someone w/ more music theory knowledge than myself could make a suggestion about the instrument that this would apply to.  

Edited by - tdennis on 02/29/2012 17:09:20

Charley Noble - Posted - 02/29/2012:  17:06:33

Plectrum banjo playing was probably encouraged by the popularity of ragtime music toward the end of the 19th century, as Gura and Bollman point out in America's Instrument, p. 248. The banjo mandolins and tenor banjos were well adapted for this style of playing. No doubt 5-string banjos were adapted as well, and somewhere in the process the performers realized they didn't need the 5th string at all, and the long neck plectrum 4-string banjo evolved in the early 1900s.

beezaboy - Posted - 02/29/2012:  17:19:58

"C notation" is music arranged for the 5-string banjo.

In the Feb 1921 issue of The Cadenza, Myron Bickford responds to a reader's question?  "What has become of the old, five string banjo.  I never hear it these days."

Bickford replies in part:  "So far as I know, all the banjos are still in existence...even if they are thickly grown over with moss."  Bickford continues:  "There are many reasons for this, one of them being that many sustained notes are required.[to play popular songs]..and ...the tremolo is considerably easier to acquire with a plectrum than it is with the first finger of the right hand.

Edited by - beezaboy on 02/29/2012 17:30:59

NYCJazz - Posted - 02/29/2012:  17:39:34

quote:

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Originally posted by trapdoor2

 

Vita-Guitar, the one that looks like it has seals (Pinniped) for sound-holes?

You know what? I think I remember having a book for "Plectrum Guitar" when I was a kid. We had a Stella guitar (cheap, awful, etc.) and a book...which had a green cover. I don't think it was a Smeck book...but something like that.

Ah well, a name that didn't stick. Why did it for the PB?

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Plectrum banjos were a fraction of the market back then, and the 4-string guitar market was a fraction of THAT.

tdennis - Posted - 02/29/2012:  18:16:19

Here's an S S  Stewart 20th Century that was expertly cut down to a 4 string.  The work seems quite old, & is probably a good example of   the missing links that led to the steel string plectrum.  

KingStudent - Posted - 03/01/2012:  03:20:31

On the tremolo/sustain issue:

"The advantages of the modern, or plectrum style of playing the banjo, over the old method of playing with the fingers, are manifold.  The banjo had never been been used in the orchestra until this style of playing was introduced.  The greater volume of tone makes it a much more effective solo instrument for the stage or concert platform.  Where a sustained tone was impossible with the finger playing, a sustained tone, with crescendo and diminuendo, is easily produced.  Sight reading from music written for any instrument is another advantage of this style of playing.  For a performer who has played with the fingers it is only necessary to acquire the technique of the plectrum.  The left hand fingering is the same except for a slight change because of the elimination of the fifth string." - A Practical Plectrum Method for the Standard Banjo by Arthur W. Black, 1919.

"The only way we can sustain the tone on the Banjo is with the Tremolo." - Wm. C. Stahl's New Method for the Plectrum Banjo by Wm. C. Stahl, 1920.

Charley Noble - Posted - 03/01/2012:  09:42:03

tdennis-

Nice photo of the converted classic Stewart 5-string banjo. Where did this photo come from?

tdennis - Posted - 03/01/2012:  10:31:40

I play this instrument  tuned "Chicago" style.   The voice of the  calf head & nylon strings  make it one of my favorite Plectrum banjos, (& a one of a kind beauty).    The very feature that made it undesirable to most,  kept the auction very low,  & very attractive to me.  I especially like Plectrum banjos, & also S S Stewarts.  Who would have thought I could get both ?  Fortunately the ebay listing was from a local store in S Calif, so I could inspect the quality of the woodwork, & overall condition.  

Edited by - tdennis on 03/01/2012 10:47:43

NYCJazz - Posted - 03/01/2012:  10:56:55

Were the lower inlays re-centered after the neck was shaved?

tdennis - Posted - 03/01/2012:  11:09:55

No, there is no evidence of any work done to the top of the fretboard.  It may not be  noticeable in the photos, but the small diamonds on the  7th & 17th fret are right on the edge of the cut off side,  whereas the diamonds on the right have a 3/32" margin.   The Star & Crescent on the 10th fret is also off by this amount from side to side.   Fortunately  this does not really catch the eye .  

Edited by - tdennis on 03/01/2012 11:13:59

NYCJazz - Posted - 03/01/2012:  12:38:09

Very cool instrument! You got a gem!