XXXris - Posted - 02/07/2012:  17:48:04

Hi folks:

I'm starting to fool around with one of those old Harmony banjos with the bakelite rim and resonator. I know some of you all are secretly into these as well....

What sort of setup have you done on yours that you liked best? I'll be using this as a frailing banjo. I told my wife we could use the resonator as a salad bowl as well.

I'm not planning to sink any money into this one, but I do have some extra parts around to choose from:

skin head -vs- plastic head?

tension tailpiece -vs- no-knot type?

Let me know what you have done....

Thanks!

Chris

Diablito - Posted - 02/07/2012:  18:02:07

I've just left the one i'm borrowing as it is and have been learning CH on it. it works, although I can't wait to replace it with my own wood open-back. I had the reso off it for a while, but didn't know where to store it and wifey wasn't keen on using it for salads, so i put it back on.

xnavyguy - Posted - 02/07/2012:  18:23:17

I can't tell you how to set it up as a frailer but it makes one helluva good bluegrass banjo.  I set one up that was donated to the Wounded Warriors project.  I had the head VERY tight and put a modified (compensated) experimental Dam Spillway bridge on it.  I'm attaching a recording that was made after I set it up.

By the way.  If you want to use a Dam Spillway bridge on yours you can get one from Don New (Stringbean45) who is a fellow hangouter.  He has a banjo builder/customer who states that these bridges are excellent for both clawhammer and bluegras..

Edited by - xnavyguy on 02/07/2012 18:26:23

Blackberry Blossom Played on a Harmony Reso-Tone Bakelite Banjo

banjotom2 - Posted - 02/07/2012:  18:36:55

I taught banjo in a folk music store for about 12 years... 40 banjo students a week...

My experience with these and similar economy banjos is that a proper set-up and decent tuners can make them very useable, relatively decent strings and a good set-up and you've got a banjo that could serve you well for a long time.

Every one gets hung up 'tone' and the 'perfect' banjo... all good for them...

But a well set-up inexpensive banjo can do the trick... and you may not want to take a better, higher quailty banjo out to gigs, depending on where you are playing...

The bakelite banjo was my first... and back then, I hated it... not even knowing what a real banjo played like, just comparing it to my guitar experiences...

But having had several hundred students over the course of many years with well-set-up economy banjos... I think they're worth considering, depending on your needs...

And tuners...

The store I worked had had inexpensive guitar tuners for about $3 a tuner.... and they worked great... often, better than the originals...

I would warn about putting too much money into an econo banjo... parts don't increase the re-sale value... no how, no way...

Tom

banjotom2.com

Edited by - banjotom2 on 02/07/2012 18:38:47

banjotom2 - Posted - 02/07/2012:  18:41:23

quote:

---

Originally posted by xnavyguy

I can't tell you how to set it up as a frailer but it makes one helluva good bluegrass banjo.  I set one up that was donated to the Wounded Warriors project.  I had the head VERY tight and put a modified (compensated) experimental Dam Spillway bridge on it.  I'm attaching a recording that was made after I set it up.

By the way.  If you want to use a Dam Spillway bridge on yours you can get one from Don New (Stringbean45) who is a fellow hangouter.  He has a banjo builder/customer who states that these bridges are excellent for both clawhammer and bluegras..

---

XNavyGuy...

That sounds fantastic!

Thebanjo AND your playing!

I really don't think anyone would ever know it wasn't a much better banjo if they coyldn't seei it!

Tom

Edited by - banjotom2 on 02/07/2012 18:42:18

eMike - Posted - 02/07/2012:  18:52:10

What banjotom2 said!!  I would not have expected tone like that from that banjo.  Great setup job and picking too!!

DantheBanjoMan - Posted - 02/07/2012:  18:52:33

I setup one with a plastic head and it had a great tone.  You want the head to be tight (as xnavyguy said) but I've seen ones where the plastic was snapped, apparently from tightening the head too much.  They also tend to have intonation problems, so they work best if you set the bridge so that they place in tune for the first few frets as opposed to setting the bridge so it plays in tune at the 12th fret.   

xnavyguy - Posted - 02/07/2012:  19:34:13

quote:

---

Originally posted by eMike

What banjotom2 said!!  I would not have expected tone like that from that banjo.  Great setup job and picking too!!

---

I really wish I could play that well.  The picker is my friend and fellow banjo junkie Art Horan (Roll Player) a hillbilly from the hills of Brooklyn, NY.  As I said earlier, those Dam bridges seem to bring the best out of any banjo, especially the cast offs and un-appreciated. ones.

wrightedward - Posted - 02/07/2012:  19:34:20

I have one ,but it is an open back ,and the head is bursted ..It has a odd size head ,anyone know where to get one..But hearing this one makes me want to fix it up ..

Eddie 

Supertone - Posted - 02/07/2012:  19:46:01

Here is a video of my bakelite Harmony banjo. I added a decent bridge, fiberskyn head and new 5th string peg. Good to go!

youtu.be/rrKqwIq4C30

banjotom2 - Posted - 02/07/2012:  20:13:31

quote:

---

Originally posted by Supertone

Here is a video of my bakelite Harmony banjo. I added a decent bridge, fiberskyn head and new 5th string peg. Good to go!

youtu.be/rrKqwIq4C30

 

---

Supertone,

You are getting some excellent claw sound and plunk out of that Bakelite!

I guess I should have held on to the one I had back in the day...

Good picking, good work on the banjo, good sound from the banjo and good singing/playing as well...

Tom

banjotom2.com

banjopogo - Posted - 02/07/2012:  23:35:31

I had one, and put a rolled brass rod tone-ring on it, and it greatly improved the sound.

I don't know how easy you can get them aftermarket, but Flint Hill Banjos has a bakelite model.
They don't have a tone ring, but it sounds fantastic- I'm guessing the reason is a super thick HOOP!!!

It's the mass.... those banjos need some extra mass.

picker5 - Posted - 02/08/2012:  06:48:37

quote:

---

Originally posted by XXXris

Hi folks:

I'm starting to fool around with one of those old Harmony banjos with the bakelite rim and resonator. I know some of you all are secretly into these as well....

What sort of setup have you done on yours that you liked best? I'll be using this as a frailing banjo. I told my wife we could use the resonator as a salad bowl as well.

I'm not planning to sink any money into this one, but I do have some extra parts around to choose from:

skin head -vs- plastic head?

tension tailpiece -vs- no-knot type?

Let me know what you have done....

Thanks!

Chris

---

Dont forget to plug the attachment hole in the resonator before you set it on the tablecloth!

banjered - Posted - 02/08/2012:  07:45:14

That was great Supertone! I mentioned you in another thread banjohangout.org/topic/227848 where I propose that you don't necessarily need an expensive banjo for singing. I didn't want to dissipate/go off topic for this thread. Banjered

Supertone - Posted - 02/08/2012:  09:32:36

Thanks for the kind comments regarding the Harmony. I think they sound pretty nice with only a few setup changes. I should probably change the four tuners on the headstock but for the moment, the originals are still there.

mikehalloran - Posted - 02/08/2012:  12:19:14

quote:

---

Originally posted by banjopogo

I don't know how easy you can get them aftermarket, but Flint Hill Banjos has a bakelite model.

They don't have a tone ring, but it sounds fantastic- I'm guessing the reason is a super thick HOOP!!!



It's the mass.... those banjos need some extra mass.

---

The Flinthill Bakelite banjo is available from any SAGA dealer under the Rover brand. Only certain dealers carry it as a Flinthill but SAGA owns both brand names.

The Bakelite version is the 20 series and is available as an open back or with flanges and a resonator as the 25 series. Each is available as tenor, plectrum and 5 string making 6 versions in all. These take standard 11" heads, BTW, have a coordinator rod and adjustable truss rods in the neck.

It is also available under the Appalachian name as the Banjo Pac - no flanges on the resonator and the 5th tuner is geared but, otherwise, the same banjo from SAGA. I sold a few of these over Christmas and the teachers were pleased.

This same banjo is also available with a cast aluminum rim as the Rover RB-30 (open back 5 string) and RB-35 with mahogany resonator & flanges as a tenor, plectrum or 5 string.

I sell more RB-30 banjos than everything else put together. Half go to students; the other half to older players looking to reduce weight but still have a decent banjo.

I agree, you want that head 1/4 turn before bursting to get the best tone for 'grass. I should think the flesh head on the old Harmonys should sound pretty good for claw hammer.

The Waverly tuners found on the old ones are usually junk - especially if ever left to dry out. A $12 set of PINGs will work better than the originals. The P-142 SAGA geared 5th tuner is quite cheap and readily available. I have a 5 geared tuner pack for these that I sell for $20 including postage to the lower 48.

Edited by - mikehalloran on 02/08/2012 12:32:13

xnavyguy - Posted - 02/08/2012:  12:58:36

I don't want to rain on anybody's parade here but those Rover Bakelite (Plastic) banjo flanges cannot handle the kind of tension on the hooks that it takes to get a very tight setup.  I know, because I totally destroyed a brand new Rover, trying to get it up to tension.  I wasn't even close and the flange started coming apart.

rexhunt - Posted - 02/08/2012:  15:40:35

The Rovers aren't really Bakelite either but some other kind of plastic.  A neighbor has one and it's just not as good as my Resotone.  I've worked on it too.  They do have a much nicer neck though.   My Resotone has a plastic head fairly tight.  The other non-original parts are the tension tailpiece from a 60's Vega and a standard Grover ebony top bridge.

Rex

mikehalloran - Posted - 02/08/2012:  17:51:48

I have never had a plastic one bite me as a return but I'll confess that I really prefer the aluminum version of the Rover.

Before last year's price increase, I'd upsell the RB-30 on the geared 5th, adjustable tailpiece and arm rest and stronger pot. Now that the price has gone up on both, it's easier to recommend an old Harmony over the RB-20.

aeroweenie - Posted - 02/08/2012:  19:42:07

My first banjo was a Harmony, they respond well to setup.  For bluegrass:

tighten the head a lot (not sure what note, the S. Davis sag test is good, it may want even more)

good bridge (Grover is fine, you may want to thin it)

adjustable tail piece to put pressure on the bridge

medium strings (I think, its been a looong time, try med. & light and pick what you like)

Tim Zowada - Posted - 03/02/2012:  06:18:31

There some inexpensive Harmony parts on e-bay. Here is a link to the shell:

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?...M:US:1123

The same guy has necks and other parts too.

Does anyone know the size of these pots? I was thinking of using one to make my hide dead stretching jig.

10sbum - Posted - 03/02/2012:  13:32:31

quote:

---

Originally posted by xnavyguy

I can't tell you how to set it up as a frailer but it makes one helluva good bluegrass banjo.  I set one up that was donated to the Wounded Warriors project.  I had the head VERY tight and put a modified (compensated) experimental Dam Spillway bridge on it.  I'm attaching a recording that was made after I set it up.

By the way.  If you want to use a Dam Spillway bridge on yours you can get one from Don New (Stringbean45) who is a fellow hangouter.  He has a banjo builder/customer who states that these bridges are excellent for both clawhammer and bluegras..

---

Wow!  That's amazing.  The bakelite Harmony was my first banjo, bought new in 1962 for $35.  Mine never sounded that good, but at the time, I thought setup was something that happened in a bar...in Pittsburgh.

JamieB - Posted - 03/13/2012:  14:07:49

The pot size is 10 7/8" medium crown. Hard to find, but they're available. I used a high crown, because it's all I could find at the time. Put a couple of stainless washers under each nut to take up thread space, had the added benefit of reducing friction when tightening the head down.

chadp - Posted - 03/19/2012:  10:08:59

I just got one of these off a coworker for $150 with a brand new hard case. He'd just got it set up at a local chain music store. The action was a little high on it when I got it, the sound was harsh and ringy with plenty of abrasive overtones and the tuners DID NOT like to turn without a painful amount of work.

i disassembled the tuners, greased 'em up with some vaseline, wiped off the excess and reassembled them. took off the head, cleaned the rim off, put (what I thought was) the terrible, shiny plastic head back on, and tightened the brackets JUST tight enough that none of the nuts would freely turn, replaced the 5/8" grover that was on (backwards, I might add. the music shop who set it up obviously didn't know what they were doing) with a simple 1/2" golden gate and a set of GHS mediums. I ditched the clunky 6 string tailpiece that it came with and replaced it with a no-knot. 

now, the tone is balanced and clear. the action is beautifully playable, responds real well to hammer ons, and it's JUST high enough to play up over the 19th. the head is nice and slack, so it's got a little bit of plunk because of the no-knot, but sometimes when i play it, it almost sounds like it's got a tone ring.

it's certainly not the best banjo I've ever played, or heard, but it's certainly exceeded what I thought the time, effort and money i put in would return.

Mr Oogi Boogi - Posted - 03/24/2012:  11:16:17

hey i've been playing a harmony for many years, but i don't know squat about the setup side of things. my tuners need replacing badly, they appear to be some kind of guitar tuners? could anyone suggest what i should replace them with?

XXXris - Posted - 03/24/2012:  11:34:07

Hi Oogie: If you want to keep it in the "economical" range, this set from StewMac may have the lowest price around....

stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Banjo_...s#reviews

Browse their other selections for fancier tuners....