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Dr Ralph - Posted - 02/07/2012: 12:10:01
It has 67 watchers...& one day to go, it'll be interesting to see what they finally go for
asmcsgac - Posted - 02/07/2012: 12:25:41
Seems I recall a pair recently bringing over $450.00
alanjg1 - Posted - 02/07/2012: 12:35:40
Dean,
I wondered how you know how many watchers. I've checked the listing but can't see any details.
Interesting information if it's available to all.
Many thanks,
Alan
Dr Ralph - Posted - 02/07/2012: 12:47:15
quote:
Originally posted by alanjg1
Dean,
I wondered how you know how many watchers. I've checked the listing but can't see any details.
Interesting information if it's available to all.
Many thanks,
Alan
Hi Alan, I get the info from this site, It;s a great site that lists the top ebay items be it banjos, clocks, dolls...etc etc
collectorsweekly.com/guitars/banjos
Just hover over the photo of the item & it tells you:
Item description
Current bid
Date listing ends
How many bids (if any)
How many watchers (if any)
I hope this helps...
alanjg1 - Posted - 02/07/2012: 13:11:57
Dean,
Thanks very much. That's a great resource.
Cheers
Pluckin Mutha - Posted - 02/07/2012: 13:34:56
Too bad they won't ship to Canada.
Mutha
banjofrog - Posted - 02/07/2012: 13:38:19
I like my Dunlop .018 picks just fine.
jbkirby - Posted - 02/07/2012: 15:02:29
OK guys, I'm one of those ebay watchers because I am very curious as to why these are so valuable other than scarcity. I noticed that an old pair of National picks like mine sold for the whopping sum of $189.39. ebay.com/itm/220944784035?ssPa...423.l2649 and I paid about fifty cents for mine back in 1976. Admittedly, my picking buddy way back then advised me to snap them up wherever I could find them and I was never able to find another pair. Mine are tucked away safely, retired after I saw a pair sell for 20 bucks several years ago (I prefer Propiks anyway) but what is the mystique of these old National picks??? Are they supposed to magically make you sound "Jes' like Earl?"
Edited by - jbkirby on 02/07/2012 15:05:35
dobroman - Posted - 02/08/2012: 21:54:49
These picks do produce a different tone than others. Its a matter of taste and right hand as any others. I must have a dozen sets of pick by different makers. On the same banjo same strings, set up,ect..... they are different. I prefer them, as well as a lot of the top pickers out there. Mine are gettin wore thin, but I cant be paying that much for them any time soon. Roy's Own are close as Ive found.
csbdr - Posted - 02/09/2012: 09:16:54
ended at $449.89. some folks have more money than brains...but thats just my opinion.
Barnet in SoCal - Posted - 02/09/2012: 09:54:00
OK. That is just plain insanity. I'm absolutely, utterly astonished. Really. I mean... what.... sputter/cough/choke/arrghhh WHAT?
Unless the person is smarter than all of us and thinks s/he'll get even more $$ when flipping them down the road....
Thanks, I'm done now.
Barnet in SoCal
___________________________
--Mighty fine, mighty fine….
steve davis - Posted - 02/09/2012: 10:01:20
As soon as I tried on my first pair of Dunlop 25s in the 70s I never put on another pair of those uncomfortable,too small for me,Nationals.
banjoken - Posted - 02/09/2012: 10:31:51
Just a few years ago pairs of pat pends were going between $800 and $1,200 on ebay!
Barnet in SoCal - Posted - 02/09/2012: 13:27:38
WHAT? Surely you joken.....
Barnet in SoCal
___________________________
--Mighty fine, mighty fine….
jbkirby - Posted - 02/09/2012: 20:09:11
My picks are Nationals, same 1787136 number, oval "8" and rounded "3" with "U.S.A." on bottom, the pick surface is flat. Is this an early post-war pick?
Julio B - Posted - 02/09/2012: 20:44:43
Can you pick out the old Nationals from any other modern picks from a good sound file?
~Julio
quote:
Originally posted by dobroman
These picks do produce a different tone than others.
Edited by - Julio B on 02/09/2012 20:45:10
KLandreth - Posted - 02/10/2012: 07:19:47
quote:
Originally posted by Julio B
Can you pick out the old Nationals from any other modern picks from a good sound file?
~Julio
Can the average listener discern whether a concert violinist is using a $100 bow or a $10,000 bow from a good sound file? Not likely, but an accomplished violinist can feel and hear the difference and it affects the way you play. It’s the combination of the instrument, the tools (bows or finger picks), and the player that result in a great performance. If you are possessed by tone…the little things (like choice of picks) make a big difference. If you just want to “mash it”…well, anything will probably do.
(and no...I did not buy the picks under discussion here.)
Edited by - KLandreth on 02/10/2012 07:25:44
silvioferretti - Posted - 02/10/2012: 07:35:53
quote:
Originally posted by jbkirby
My picks are Nationals, same 1787136 number, oval "8" and rounded "3" with "U.S.A." on bottom, the pick surface is flat. Is this an early post-war pick?
If it has a USA stamp it should be from the '70s on, AFAIK. You can check Dean Hoffmeyer's wonderful website about National fingerpicks.
I agree with Ken, about tone I mean, but also with Julio, in a way: if a picker is unable to get a better sound from - say - "oval 8" Nationals than from any modern fingerpick, then he / she should stick with the cheapest and most readily available choice. OTOH, if a picker gets great, huge sound from most any pick (like Kenny Ingram does, or my guru, Tom McKinney), then he / she can use pretty much what he / she wants, the choice being based on other factors (like comfort, price, wear, etc) than sound.
And no, I didn't buy those half-a-grand picks: I've got enough oval-8s, circle-8s and other great old picks to cover my picking years, maybe even my son's too! I still try to buy oval-8s off of eBay, but that's sort of a game for me.
Edited by - silvioferretti on 02/10/2012 07:38:01
KLandreth - Posted - 02/10/2012: 08:12:57
Price isn't really the issue here...it was whether the question posed by Julio was a useful one in considering 'value' of a particular set of picks to the player. I, too, have enough old Nationals for several lifetimes...but I'm using a set of brand new finger picks made by Zack Deming that are giving me tone I was not getting with the old Nationals. For the moment, I wouldn't sell them for the price just paid for the Patent Pendings on eBay.
Edited by - KLandreth on 02/10/2012 08:14:56
BanjoLink - Posted - 02/10/2012: 08:30:16
"ended at $449.89. some folks have more money than brains...but thats just my opinion."................................. yeah, like those nuts that bought those pre-war flatheads for $5000 in the 70's....................................
I too wouldn't pay that much for those picks, but I sure don't second guess the person that bought them. One thing for sure, unless the underbidder was a lamp post, someone else was willing to pay $445 for them - so just how much of a risk in the winning bidder taking - $5. Not much risk to me! I've got several pairs laying around the house somewhere - maybe I ought to try and find them!
I totally agree with Ken and Silvio - pretty much nailed it!
Dr Ralph - Posted - 02/10/2012: 08:38:41
quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink
"ended at $449.89. some folks have more money than brains...but thats just my opinion."................................. yeah, like those nuts that bought those pre-war flatheads for $5000 in the 70's....................................
I too wouldn't pay that much for those picks, but I sure don't second guess the person that bought them. One thing for sure, unless the underbidder was a lamp post, someone else was willing to pay $445 for them - so just how much of a risk in the winning bidder taking - $5. Not much risk to me! I've got several pairs laying around the house somewhere - maybe I ought to try and find them!
I totally agree with Ken and Silvio - pretty much nailed it!
John, If you can find a pair you ought to put them on ebay with a buy it now price of $445.00 hopefully the second bidder is still looking. 
jbkirby - Posted - 02/10/2012: 09:41:09
Thanks for the information. I know that these were the only picks like this I could find in the 1970s and I searched many music stores for them. I wanted to be sure in case I needed to insure them . I will never part with them as these are my very first pair of finger picks and I learned to play with these. How I've kept them 35 years is anyone's guess!
Edited by - jbkirby on 02/10/2012 09:42:02
BanjoLink - Posted - 02/10/2012: 10:05:46
quote:
Originally posted by Dr Ralph
quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink
"ended at $449.89. some folks have more money than brains...but thats just my opinion."................................. yeah, like those nuts that bought those pre-war flatheads for $5000 in the 70's....................................
I too wouldn't pay that much for those picks, but I sure don't second guess the person that bought them. One thing for sure, unless the underbidder was a lamp post, someone else was willing to pay $445 for them - so just how much of a risk in the winning bidder taking - $5. Not much risk to me! I've got several pairs laying around the house somewhere - maybe I ought to try and find them!
I totally agree with Ken and Silvio - pretty much nailed it!
John, If you can find a pair you ought to put them on ebay with a buy it now price of $445.00 hopefully the second bidder is still looking.
That's why I may look! Hopefully, the underbidder (or lamp post) hasn't spent his $450
on groceries or something silly!
BANJOBOB549 - Posted - 02/10/2012: 10:07:42
I,ve had 3 sets of pat pending picks,,Realized over $2,000 on sale of picks..
Dr Ralph - Posted - 02/10/2012: 10:14:28
quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink
quote:
Originally posted by Dr Ralph
quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink
"ended at $449.89. some folks have more money than brains...but thats just my opinion."................................. yeah, like those nuts that bought those pre-war flatheads for $5000 in the 70's....................................
I too wouldn't pay that much for those picks, but I sure don't second guess the person that bought them. One thing for sure, unless the underbidder was a lamp post, someone else was willing to pay $445 for them - so just how much of a risk in the winning bidder taking - $5. Not much risk to me! I've got several pairs laying around the house somewhere - maybe I ought to try and find them!
I totally agree with Ken and Silvio - pretty much nailed it!
John, If you can find a pair you ought to put them on ebay with a buy it now price of $445.00 hopefully the second bidder is still looking.
That's why I may look! Hopefully, the underbidder (or lamp post) hasn't spent his $450
on groceries or something silly!
Yeah my feelings exactly, why waste hard earned cash on food when you can invest it in some old bent metal!! 
BanjoLink - Posted - 02/10/2012: 14:54:13
I'm presently beating out the kinks in the one that I retrieved from the trash can after I accidentally stepped on it. I may try making some fakes using the same stamping dyes that I use to stamp FON numbers in fake Mastertone rims - hope the digits aren't too big! I think the set that I use for the "Pat. Pending stamp may be about right.
BPorter - Posted - 02/11/2012: 05:23:14
I think I might need to "rummage" threw my "music junk" stuff again!
Bill Porter
southerndrifter - Posted - 02/11/2012: 05:31:14
I've got 3 sets with the Pat. No's on them, but no "Made in USA". How much are they worth?
steve davis - Posted - 02/11/2012: 05:53:19
I feel very lucky to get my preferred tone from Dunlop 25s.
lazyarcher - Posted - 02/11/2012: 06:17:21
I'm with Silvio on this..I have a bunch of Nationals from the 70s, as well as some old sets. I do find a tone difference in some sets. My fav set is one that has USA on the inside of the picks. I have a couple of pre-USA sets that I like also.
I used Dunlops in the 70s, but found I could get a cleaner more consistent tone from the Nationals. I must have given away about 50 sets of the Dunlops...which I probably should have kept for investment purposes......
silvioferretti - Posted - 02/12/2012: 03:24:56
quote:
Originally posted by lazyarcher
I'm with Silvio on this..I have a bunch of Nationals from the 70s, as well as some old sets. I do find a tone difference in some sets. My fav set is one that has USA on the inside of the picks. I have a couple of pre-USA sets that I like also.
I used Dunlops in the 70s, but found I could get a cleaner more consistent tone from the Nationals. I must have given away about 50 sets of the Dunlops...which I probably should have kept for investment purposes......
Dave, we all know that a picker's tone is in the picker's hands, right? I could never use Dunlops when I was still experimenting with picks, about 30 years ago or so, as their blade was too long for me. I used Nationals then, with the USA stamp, even those that you could get in the early '80s which were unbearably thick and clumsy, I could use them but couldn't use Dunlops. Then I saw Tom McKinney play with Dunlop fingerpicks and a big black Gibson thumbpick, and draw his usual huge tone out of Boss Hogg... Later on they changed the shape (and possibly the metal too) of the Dunlops, but by then I was so used to old Nationals that I couldn't care less about trying anything else. BTW, I just saw that two very nice sets of oval-8s sold for about 140 bucks per set. I never paid more than 80 bucks for a set as nice as these, and usually I paid a lot less than that... Maybe I'll be able to sell my '70s USA Nationals for what I paid for oval-8s!... 
steve davis - Posted - 02/12/2012: 06:25:10
What I like about Dunlops is the secure way they wrap around my fingers.
I'm all about stability for consistency and the bigger size of the Dunlops are much more comfortable and stable for me.
I only like the .025s,as they don't loosen up if I really dig in too hard.
I like the large blade which is in proportion to the size of my hands.
I get the tone I want from set up and attack.
Maybe I'd like Nationals if they were scaled up 25%.
Edited by - steve davis on 02/12/2012 06:27:43
3fingers - Posted - 02/12/2012: 07:47:29
OK I keep seeing this over and over and then you see statements from saying I have enough prewar national fingerpicks to last me through my career and as much as I like some of those people I say "Oh Please" If your whole picking career rests on a pair of pre war Nationals you have issues!!! Granted I have a preferance and its Showcase 1941's and if they stop making them tommorow I will say well shoot I really liked them but I'm sure I can get something else. Soooooo the only thing I guess I can say is I wish I had more pairs of early Nationals so I can get people with more money than sense to buy them.
silvioferretti - Posted - 02/13/2012: 01:40:34
quote:
Originally posted by 3fingers
OK I keep seeing this over and over and then you see statements from saying I have enough prewar national fingerpicks to last me through my career and as much as I like some of those people I say "Oh Please" If your whole picking career rests on a pair of pre war Nationals you have issues!!! Granted I have a preferance and its Showcase 1941's and if they stop making them tommorow I will say well shoot I really liked them but I'm sure I can get something else. Soooooo the only thing I guess I can say is I wish I had more pairs of early Nationals so I can get people with more money than sense to buy them.
I don't understand what you mean, Craig, but maybe it's because I'm a furner and my comprehension of English is poor... Nobody ever said that a picker's career could rest on a pair of picks, or ANY accessory for that matter. But calling "issues" one's preference, or even love, for certain objects that allow one to get the tone one likes to get from an instrument, why, this is not right. If price was the heart of the matter with playing music, then ALL violin players should be happy with a carbon fiber bow (just to mention a tool they use), because it does its job and it's replaceable and so on. Ditto about banjos (why the need to buy anything more expensive than a Gold Star or RK?), guitars (who needs a 1944 Martin when a new ........... - insert the guitar of your choice - can fit the bill?). But price is not the heart of the matter, sound is, and I'm sorry to say that about this subject nobody is entitled to say who's got sense and who hasn't. I mean, America is a free place etc etc, but saying someone has got more money than sense just because he / she hasn't got the same priorities that you have just ain't right. I might think the same as you, and not only about picks, instruments, cars, paintings, clothes, houses, you name it, but I'm not entitled to judge and condemn other people's opinions and choices about non-vital items.
Edited by - silvioferretti on 02/13/2012 01:47:54
BanjoLink - Posted - 02/13/2012: 06:58:33
Dittos, dittos, dittos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Silvio, I was thinking the exact same thing when I read your post - thanks for saving me some keyboard time!
BanjoWorkman - Posted - 02/13/2012: 07:41:26
Silvo, Very well stated. I was thinking this was turning into PICK class warfare or pick envy. There is a reason God made us with two ears and only one mouth. I suggest we all go and use our picks to pick and stop picking on picks just to be picking on something.
3fingers - Posted - 02/13/2012: 08:59:41
No,No,No, Silvio with all due respect. The point I was making was that Pre War Nationals are more of a status symbol than anything. People making statements about thier "pre-war Nationals" making thier "tone" is just not really true. Its in thier right hand as Kenny Ingram or Crowe or anybody would tell them. And as far as "Pre war Nationals" goes their more of a collectors item than something that is a actual need for "good" banjo picking.
silvioferretti - Posted - 02/13/2012: 09:44:43
Craig, I appreciate the respect (which is not due by any means: one must gain it!), but let me point out that it was yours truly who wrote: "Dave, we all know that a picker's tone is in the picker's hands", and "I saw Tom McKinney play with Dunlop fingerpicks and a big black Gibson thumbpick, and draw his usual huge tone out of Boss Hogg". This said, I still think that old Nationals are not necessarily a status symbol, at least for me. And that this horse has been beaten to death, at least IMO, but I'm sure and afraid it will be exhumed times and again...
3fingers - Posted - 02/13/2012: 12:31:13
Silvio ( The respect is MOST certainly deserved via Red Wine and MUCH other reasons, and BELIEVE me it pains me to do this) the first time my grandmother heard me playing on a track on the radio she said"thats Craigs Banjo" and I would have to say it had nothing to do with pre war Nationals ( which I didnt use on that particular recording or anything except my right hand) BUT I have also learned in this life that you respect what you think works. BUT ,and this is a hard thing to say, But 99.99% of the population wouldnt know the difference if you used pre war Nationals or SuperCharlies next best thing fingerpicks. Now we have been BHO friends for I dont know how long so I Think we're kinda saying the same thing in two different ways "what works for you is what you think works for you" ( And believe me I dont want to harm our friendship so to each his own) oh and YES this Horse has been BEATEN to the point its a half a jackass. So lets go on LOLOL.
Craig
steve davis - Posted - 02/13/2012: 13:00:53
We get comfortable with a particular combination and stay with it.
jbkirby - Posted - 02/13/2012: 15:00:13
In the trumpet world, we say that a horn/mouthpiece has to find you. It is the same with picks. If you like your sound with a certain combination of picks, then stick be it whether Dunlops, pre-war nationals or whatever. I am sticking with flat, straight Propicks with a National large thumbpick, but that works for me. The Nationals that I have just didn't work as well.
TB-4 Guy - Posted - 02/13/2012: 15:13:57
I have three or four sets that I got in the 1970's but none of mine are Pat. Pending. I wouldn't sell them anyway. $400 something for some picks?....that's just silly.
picknsmile - Posted - 02/13/2012: 16:00:39
I just thought I'd throw in my two cents worth. I have a few sets of first-state patented Nationals. I bought them in the late fifties from a music store in my home town. Over the years I have tried out scads of picks that claim to have the old National sound. As a matter of fact, I have a whole drawer full of them. From my experience there IS a difference. For some reason (magic, alchemy, pixies,????) the old Nationals DO sound better. Much better. Although it may not be easily quantified, I hear it!
So, anyway, there is my two cents worth.
-Rod
Edited by - picknsmile on 02/13/2012 16:02:06
Bulldogger - Posted - 02/22/2012: 17:19:59
My wife kept telling me to find her old picks and asking if they were the same ones we are always talking about that are worth so much. After seeing this thread it didn't get me wondering. My wife doesn't even know the names of the strings on her banjo, not that she can't play it, let alone something about finger picks. I started digging through a bowl of picks I have and found one that looks like the ones in that are pictured above. Would someone give me $200 for one or do I have to find the other one? Trust me, I'm going to be hunting for the other one. I know she put a blob of fingernail polish on itso she could tell which one went on which finger. This will be like finding a needle in a haystack.
Bulldogger - Posted - 02/22/2012: 17:42:17
The ones in the picture above aren't the same as the ones on ebay. Do the pre war ones just say patent pending with no serial number? At least this has got me looking for my wife's picks. She always just takes the picks off my fingers and bends them to fit hers. I don't know anyone else who can do that. I use Ernie Ball pickey picks and it doesn't seem to phase her that they aren't even close to hers. I can't play with any other brand. I can play with any old set I pick up, even if I've stepped on them. I know most have their special set and that's it.
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