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bobf - Posted - 09/07/2010: 20:06:22
All,
I was in a small town this weekend and saw a banjo in the window of a music store (closed of course). I could barely make out the tag that kept fluttering in the air conditioning, but I believed it said RB-250, 1965 and the price was $1800.00 My question is it worth making the three hour drive back to check it out, or is that price out of line regardless of condition? Or should I call them and tell them to hold it till I get there and make a mad dash before someone else gets it?
Thanks for your opinions,
Bob
Edited by - Bill Rogers on 09/09/2010 11:48:32
bomac - Posted - 09/07/2010: 20:12:47
there are several rb-250's in the classifieds. you can compare it to them. several are in that price range.
Edited by - bomac on 09/07/2010 20:14:49
youdye - Posted - 09/07/2010: 20:14:34
sounds fair to me! we have bought three RB250's in the last two weeks and they ranged from $1850 to $2200. depends on the condition and how playable it is. One of ours I had to do a TON of work to it, but it plays fantastic. IMHO I think it would be worth the trip, BUT call them and ask them to describe the condition it is in first before that type of driving commitment. I have pics of mine on my BHO page if you want to see that it looks like the one in the window. If you get your hands on it check it out COMPLETELY! I took the resonator off, looked at the rim the flange, tailpiece etc. to make sure it was all original with no pieces thrown in there. good luck and if you get it post some pics for us!
pastorharry - Posted - 09/07/2010: 20:18:34
Your advantage there over buying off the classifieds is you would get to try the banjo.Of course alot depends on set-up but a good RB-250 is hard to beat, and that is certainly a decent price, plus if you come wavin' cash you may even get her for a bit less. I sure love mine-sold her once and ended up buying her back-my favorite banjo of all time. Happy hunting, PH
Gold Star GF-85 - Posted - 09/08/2010: 04:01:14
I agree with Pastorharry, I like doing business face to face if possible and trying an instrument before dealing, Good Luck.
An RB-250 is a good Banjo, at least most of the one I have played were.
bobf - Posted - 09/08/2010: 18:35:04
Thanks for the comments gentlemen. I haven't called them yet, but I'll post if I end up getting it.
Thanks again,
Bob
preecher - Posted - 09/09/2010: 04:16:35
Where I come from one of the first questions would be, "What's the least you will take for that old banjer?" Seriously, I passed on an RB250 at $1600 and have regretted it many times since! That's a good price if it's in good condition.
banjoken - Posted - 09/09/2010: 04:47:25
Call them up, but don't immediately ask about the rb250. Ask them if they have a Gibson Granada and when they tell you they don't, but they do have 250 show slight disappointment that they don't have the Granada. Then ask questions about the 250 and let them sell you that banjo at their best price. If you call them up from 200 miles away about that specific rb250 they will probably not budge on the price.
bobf - Posted - 09/09/2010: 10:57:31
quote:
Originally posted by banjoken
Call them up, but don't immediately ask about the rb250. Ask them if they have a Gibson Granada and when they tell you they don't, but they do have 250 show slight disappointment that they don't have the Granada. Then ask questions about the 250 and let them sell you that banjo at their best price. If you call them up from 200 miles away about that specific rb250 they will probably not budge on the price.
Banjoken, That's a good idea. I wished I had thought of it before I called them this morning! On the plus side, they seem pretty reasonable. The owner even offered to bring it out to me in a few weeks when he travels my way. He's also going to email me some pictures in a couple of days. I'll post them here and get all of your reactions. As it turns out, he is selling the banjo on consignment for a local guy who seems to have a real banjo affliction. He has a couple of Hubers and Stellings right now; sells a couple; buys a couple different ones and so on. Bob
beegee - Posted - 09/09/2010: 12:09:45
Where,exactly, is this dealer? 
bobf - Posted - 09/09/2010: 15:22:18
quote:
Originally posted by beegee
Where,exactly, is this dealer?
38 degrees North, 27 degrees west. Ask for Bubba 
martyg - Posted - 09/09/2010: 15:48:25
Bob, some of us know where that is !
banjoken - Posted - 09/09/2010: 16:00:20
quote:
Originally posted by bobf
He has a couple of Hubers and Stellings right now; sells a couple; buys a couple different ones and so on.
Sounds like a great reason to go to the store in person.
2many5s - Posted - 09/09/2010: 18:19:24
The owner even offered to bring it out to me in a few weeks when he travels my way.
Yeah, that's a great idea until someone walks in with cash.
Doubt that he'll refuse by saying, "I can't sell it to you because, in a couple of weeks, I am taking it to a fellow 200 miles from here who may buy it."
Not a bad price for a RB250. If you want it, drive back there, play it, buy it.
Let's get this economy back on its feet!
f5loar - Posted - 09/09/2010: 19:56:35
A few notes here. First you seem to not know a lot about Gibson banjos. The fact the seller says it is an RB250 from 1965 does not make it one. You don't say if it is a paddle head bow tie 1pc. model or the more common RB3 type fiddle head 2 pc. flange. Some sellers simply take the serial no. and try to date it by that and the problem is Gibson overlaped and doubled used many serial nos. from the mid 60's to the mid 70's So while you are telling us it is a 1965 RB250 it could be a 1975 RB250 and that might not be such a good price.
Also if it is a 1965 model that is the first year of the thinner rims and the tone ring might be overhanging the edge of the rim thereby making a not so great of a sounding Mastertone.
So all these coming into play I'm not so sure I would go after it for that price.
Lou Bourbon - Posted - 09/09/2010: 22:36:20
quote:
Originally posted by f5loar
A few notes here. First you seem to not know a lot about Gibson banjos. The fact the seller says it is an RB250 from 1965 does not make it one. You don't say if it is a paddle head bow tie 1pc. model or the more common RB3 type fiddle head 2 pc. flange. Some sellers simply take the serial no. and try to date it by that and the problem is Gibson overlaped and doubled used many serial nos. from the mid 60's to the mid 70's So while you are telling us it is a 1965 RB250 it could be a 1975 RB250 and that might not be such a good price.
Also if it is a 1965 model that is the first year of the thinner rims and the tone ring might be overhanging the edge of the rim thereby making a not so great of a sounding Mastertone.
So all these coming into play I'm not so sure I would go after it for that price.
Very good points. I was going to suggest that the rim might be a thin wall or multi ply version. Both of these possibilities would make me steer clear at that price. Lou
bobf - Posted - 09/10/2010: 17:46:03
quote:
Originally posted by f5loar
A few notes here. First you seem to not know a lot about Gibson banjos. The fact the seller says it is an RB250 from 1965 does not make it one. You don't say if it is a paddle head bow tie 1pc. model or the more common RB3 type fiddle head 2 pc. flange. Some sellers simply take the serial no. and try to date it by that and the problem is Gibson overlaped and doubled used many serial nos. from the mid 60's to the mid 70's So while you are telling us it is a 1965 RB250 it could be a 1975 RB250 and that might not be such a good price.
Also if it is a 1965 model that is the first year of the thinner rims and the tone ring might be overhanging the edge of the rim thereby making a not so great of a sounding Mastertone.
So all these coming into play I'm not so sure I would go after it for that price.
You are absolutely correct about point one. I know the older ones can be good and I had read that a quality change happened in the 60's to 70's as you mentioned, but after that, well, that's why I posted. I knew there were much more knowledgable folks here than me. That said, the dealer sent some pictures that I've attached. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks, Bob By the way, when did the quality start returning with some reliability?
bobf - Posted - 09/10/2010: 17:48:15
quote:
Originally posted by bobf
quote:
Originally posted by f5loar
A few notes here. First you seem to not know a lot about Gibson banjos. The fact the seller says it is an RB250 from 1965 does not make it one. You don't say if it is a paddle head bow tie 1pc. model or the more common RB3 type fiddle head 2 pc. flange. Some sellers simply take the serial no. and try to date it by that and the problem is Gibson overlaped and doubled used many serial nos. from the mid 60's to the mid 70's So while you are telling us it is a 1965 RB250 it could be a 1975 RB250 and that might not be such a good price.
Also if it is a 1965 model that is the first year of the thinner rims and the tone ring might be overhanging the edge of the rim thereby making a not so great of a sounding Mastertone.
So all these coming into play I'm not so sure I would go after it for that price.
You are absolutely correct about point one. I know the older ones can be good and I had read that a quality change happened in the 60's to 70's as you mentioned, but after that, well, that's why I posted. I knew there were much more knowledgable folks here than me.
That said, the dealer sent some pictures that I've attached. Please let me know your thoughts.
Thanks,
Bob
By the way, when did the quality start returning with some reliability?
Well, I thought I attached them. I'll try again.
bobf - Posted - 09/10/2010: 17:50:24
quote:
Originally posted by martyg
Bob, some of us know where that is !
I'm glad you knew. I just pulled it out of the air. As it turns out, if you go to Google Earth and look for those coordinates, it looks like I dropped it right on an island in the Azores! Now if only my ability to pull things out of mid air would translate to the banjo....
bobf - Posted - 09/10/2010: 17:52:41
That's better
I hope.
It pays to read all the directions...
f5loar - Posted - 09/10/2010: 18:05:19
I don't know about others but I need to see at least one front shot. I can't tell since there was a few transition fiddle head bow ties but the serial no. could either be late 1968 or early 1971. I don't see the "made in USA" stamp but yet it's got the 70's back to it not the 60's concentric ring back. One thing for sure it's not a 1965 and I don't see how any reputable knowledable dealer could come up with 1965 using that serial no. It's impossible and I'll tell him to his face he is wrong and should know better.
Show us the front please!
Edited by - f5loar on 09/10/2010 18:11:12
bobf - Posted - 09/10/2010: 18:13:54
quote:
Originally posted by f5loar
I don't know about others but I need to see at least one front shot. I can't tell since there was a few transition fiddle head bow ties but the serial no. could either be late 1968 or early 1971. I don't see the "made in USA" stamp but yet it's got the 70's back to it not the 60's concentric ring back. One thing for sure it's not a 1965 and I don't see how any reputable knowledable dealer could come up with 1965 using that serial no. It's impossible and I'll tell him to his face he is wrong and should know better.
Show us the front please!
Thanks for all the info. I was also surprised there was no front shot. I'll see if he'll send a couple more. Regardless of whether I get it or not, I appreciate the education!
f5loar - Posted - 09/10/2010: 18:14:01
PS: don't make the drive yet until we see the front. I'm leaning towards it's not worth that price.
f5loar - Posted - 09/10/2010: 18:17:30
You can't tell us when you saw it in the window if it had the bow tie inlays are the fancier RB3 inlays?
Was the "Gibson" at the top like you see the banjos Gibson made today in script style? or was it more like the old 50's and 60's Gibson guitar block style logo?
Edited by - f5loar on 09/10/2010 18:18:28
bobf - Posted - 09/10/2010: 18:22:11
quote:
Originally posted by f5loar
You can't tell us when you saw it in the window if it had the bow tie inlays are the fancier RB3 inlays?
Was the "Gibson" at the top like you see the banjos Gibson made today in script style? or was it more like the old 50's and 60's Gibson guitar block style logo?
Unfortunately, no. Window shopping at a closed store with my two little girls tugging at me to get to the toy store before it closed did not lend itself to careful observation. I'm pretty sure it was the script style, because block letters would have definitely got my attention. As for the inlays, no clue.
f5loar - Posted - 09/10/2010: 20:22:55
If he don't send you a front photo he is hiding something!
banjoken - Posted - 09/10/2010: 20:28:56
My guess is that he did not send a front photo due to the fact that he knows that Bob saw the front in the window and he was sending him photos of stuff he could not see. Hiding something is of no help to either the seller or the buyer.
f5loar - Posted - 09/10/2010: 21:05:02
but you got to admit the photos he did send were pretty poor in quality and representing the banjo for sale. I'm guessing the seller is sticking to the 1965 date too which is not good. I for one want to know the exact year of anything vintage I'm buying. Believe it or not just as in vintage cars one year can make a heck of difference in price. Take as an example: 1924 F5 about $200K, and a 1925 F5 about $85K. Big difference! It would be better if a seller that doesn't know the year made just say so and let the buyer figure it out. No need to make it up based on hearsay from who the seller got it from. If this turns out to be an early 70's and not even a late 60's I see room for reduction in the price based on his false assement of the banjo.
Lono - Posted - 09/11/2010: 10:24:37
It looks like the banjo is a mixture of parts and would it be good to have in hand to sort out what it actually is.
The neck looks like it is from the early 70's and the resonator also looks like it is not from the 60's, it is 70's or later. A look at the inside of the resonator would help, finish and position of the brackets. The rim appears to be a 70's or later for a two piece flange yet the banjo has a one piece flange. By the picture, the rim looks like a later 70's rim. It isn't as dark as it should be for early 70's and doesn't look like it has the multiple plies. But it could have been replaced or refinished. The T-brackets for the resonator are also a 70's item. Does the rim show holes from the traditional resonator brackets. Lastly, the lower coordinator rod is not 60's or 70's. In general the plating doesn't look like 70's plating.
beegee - Posted - 09/11/2010: 10:38:04
The thick black rim and 1-piece flange and no-hole tone ring are atypical for a 1970's Gibson. I think you have an early 70(maybe late 69 after the transitions were gone)neck and resonator and a Stew-Mac pot. I don't remember what year Gibson started using the 1-piece flange on the RB-250 again, but I thought it corresponded with the Greg Rich era or the closing of Kalamazoo in 1984.
martyg - Posted - 09/11/2010: 11:04:06
quote:
Originally posted by bobf
quote:
Originally posted by martyg
Bob, some of us know where that is !
I'm glad you knew. I just pulled it out of the air. As it turns out, if you go to Google Earth and look for those coordinates, it looks like I dropped it right on an island in the Azores! Now if only my ability to pull things out of mid air would translate to the banjo....
Right you are! and they have a great music store on that island! LOL 
f5loar - Posted - 09/11/2010: 12:45:16
It is starting to look like a parts banjo. I don't see any evidence of the big stair step Kluson tuners having been on this one like the example '69 Bowtie shown. I'm still leaning towards a 70's of some sort but without those front photos anybody is just guessing here. Now if it gets back into the 80's with a 1 pc. flange the value might be okay.
youdye - Posted - 09/12/2010: 10:03:14
Don't forget, there ARE some of us out here who have early to mid 70's RB250's that sound pretty darn good. IMHO it is a HUGE generalization to lump the entire inventory of those years as being ALL bad and not sounding good, even though they came with the multiply rims and such.
10sbum - Posted - 09/12/2010: 12:27:47
quote:
Originally posted by youdye
Don't forget, there ARE some of us out here who have early to mid 70's RB250's that sound pretty darn good. IMHO it is a HUGE generalization to lump the entire inventory of those years as being ALL bad and not sounding good, even though they came with the multiply rims and such.
I'll second that! I sold one a while back that was outstanding. Now, I'm having some regrets.
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