Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 09/05/2010:  04:59:39

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Hi All,

Iīm very interested knowing about your individual need for an overlook of the fretboard while playing.

Newbies will of course need this - for checking finger settings etc. - but how about the more trained/experienced of you?

Players standing up (and/or marching) - with the banjo hanging in a strap - can normally not see the FB at all - they are depending on strict, rehearsed settings/grips plus f.ex. the side dots on the neck - but how about you guys sitting down - can you abstract from a visual overlook?

Many proīs - like f.ex. our dear Eddy Davis - do normally not look at the neck/FB at all - they have trained themselves not doing so - instead they have a constant eye-contact with the audience etc.. Other proīs - especially those moving very far up and down the FB - do only use some short glances at the neck.

How about you? Both you, who are only playing "privately" - and you, who are mostly playing in front of an audience?

Regards

Polle

banjotef - Posted - 09/05/2010:  05:36:07

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As you say, it does require rehearsal/practice. When I am sitting down, I look at the fretboard, although from habit, not really from a need to see the frets, except for when I play up the neck. I am trying to practice more standing up, and using the dots.

archtop717 - Posted - 09/05/2010:  05:38:45

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I play standing and I play a lot of gigs. I also sing a lot in the band. When singing, I sometimes just glance at the fingerboard on a fast tune and sometimes not at all on the slower ones. When playing a break, I look at the fingerboard ( The Dots ) the whole time.
I am trying to think of a Bluegrass Banjo Player who does not look at the FB when taking a break, but I can't think of one.

denzilsnoop - Posted - 09/05/2010:  07:24:34

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quote:

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Originally posted by archtop717

I play standing and I play a lot of gigs. I also sing a lot in the band. When singing, I sometimes just glance at the fingerboard on a fast tune and sometimes not at all on the slower ones. When playing a break, I look at the fingerboard ( The Dots ) the whole time.
I am trying to think of a Bluegrass Banjo Player who does not look at the FB when taking a break, but I can't think of one.

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Doc Watson?

No but seriously, I look at the fingerboard often, not all the time, especially when I move high up the neck.

I don't think i make any reference to the neck dots - when I put the capo in unusual places it causes no problem at all.

I'm certainly not seeing dots but seeing 'steps', or 'spaces', of two or three (or more) frets upwards from where my hand is before i make the move. (obviously you can't see lower very much, because the hand is in the way).

I think it could be trained out quite easily, but since there has been no need i haven't.

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Edited by - denzilsnoop on 09/06/2010 01:39:30

mainejohn - Posted - 09/05/2010:  16:32:53

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When I play 5 string, I'm normally standing up, therefore do not/cannot look at the fretboard, so I rely on memory or side dots. When I play plectrum, I'm sitting down, therefore I can, and often do, look at the fretboard.

treblehook - Posted - 09/05/2010:  21:16:29

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i dont look sittin or standin

dlc - Posted - 09/05/2010:  21:49:59

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Thank GOD for fret markers on the bass-side binding!

denzilsnoop - Posted - 09/06/2010:  11:54:55

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quote:

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Originally posted by dlc

Thank GOD for fret markers on the bass-side binding!

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No it's humans who put those on. A Supreme Being may have given us the capacity to do so, however. I remain agnostic.

djangonut - Posted - 09/06/2010:  23:38:01

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I play guitar seated and banjo standing up. I like to play guitar a la Freddie Green at an angle, so the back of the guitar does not make major contact with my body thus muffling any vibration from the instrument. Although I play banjo standing up, my belly has extended recently to the extent that my banjo is also at an angle and I can see the fingerboard very well!

I find myself looking down at the fingerboard when playing a solo. But whilst accompanying the band, I find that I don't need to look down at the fingerboard, because I normally tend to move to the next chord through an adjacent passing chord on the fret just above or below, and thus I mostly know exactly where I am on the instrument.

John

Compass56 - Posted - 09/07/2010:  03:53:12

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My version of 5-string (open G tuning, lots of open string notes, camping in the first position) allows me to never look. I look more often on tenor banjo and guitar. On lap steel, I look every second of every song.

Tony

banjopaolo - Posted - 09/07/2010:  05:10:31

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I often look the fretboard while playing, I think I could look somewhere else but I don't know where!!! I'm a shy guy....

fred davis - Posted - 09/08/2010:  17:18:54

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Just a glance once in a while

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 09/09/2010:  05:27:40

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Guys,

Thanks - very interesting - and somehow widely spread aspects.

An additional question:

When overlooking - and when making a long move up or down the FB - what will you look for - the position of your index finger, the position of the finger fretting 4th string or anything else?

Thanks in advance

Polle

tomberghan - Posted - 09/11/2010:  14:36:44

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Sorry I am late to the party Polle . . . I was on business travel and just returned.

I don't look at all . . . and the reason is because I play a number of fretted string instruments and I read a lot of music. So, when I am reading, which is often, I obviously cannot look at the fretboard at the same time. Now, I do know some musicians who have the ability to read several measures ahead (or even several lines of staff ahead), and I suppose they could then look a the fretboard (or keyboard) . . . but I don't read very far ahead. Maybe I could train for that . . . but I guess I am lazy.

Since I have developed the habit of playing without looking at the fretboard, it actually goofs me up a little when I do look! When I memorize a piece, or when I am improving, I often close my eyes and essentially play blind.

Now obviously this is not necessary as there always have been, are now, and always will be fantastic musicians who do look at the fretboard and who do not read a note of music.

But it just makes sense to me that one should not have to look all the time . . . should not have to be glued to the fretboard. I have played some rough bars and clubs in my day . . . a musican needs to be aware of flying objects so you can duck your head!

diarmaid - Posted - 09/12/2010:  03:44:59

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I'll have a quick look before I move up the neck, and try to use my index finger as a point of reference, and quickly look at the 7-9 frets above that, though once the index finger is in the right place its easy enough from there.

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Edited by - diarmaid on 09/12/2010 03:45:40

rudykizuty - Posted - 09/12/2010:  07:51:40

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quote:

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Originally posted by Polle Flaunoe

Guys,

Thanks - very interesting - and somehow widely spread aspects.

An additional question:

When overlooking - and when making a long move up or down the FB - what will you look for - the position of your index finger, the position of the finger fretting 4th string or anything else?

Thanks in advance

Polle

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Been preached to for a lifetime about using the pinky as my guide. It makes total sense, which is probably why I can't break the habit of thinking in terms of which fret my forefinger is going to. The shape I am going to make with the chording I usually don't even need to think about. Perhaps that's why I have gotten away with this bad habit for so long.

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Edited by - rudykizuty on 09/12/2010 07:53:41

NYCJazz - Posted - 09/16/2010:  19:40:31

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I just made something that gives me the look at the fretboard that I want while standing up.

I took some bubble wrap (about 8" wide by about 20") rolled it into an 8" roll and put it into a 1 gallon ziplock bag. I rolled that up, and taped along the seam.

I took my belt out of the two loops on the right hip of my pants and threaded the belt through the bag. The belt gets buckled up again. The net effect is that it gives me a 2" x 8" cushion along my belt on my right hip. With my shirt over it, you'd hardly notice it when the banjo was off.

When the banjo is on, it put the angle just at the point where I can see the fingerboard. If i press down on the armrest, I can see more of the fingerboard.

I plan on using it this weekend at Cynthia's BBQ/seminar in Holyoke.

I'll make a diagram if there's any interest.

argus1 - Posted - 09/16/2010:  19:52:01

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Hey Nathan - I don't need a diagram. I'll get to see it first hand at Cynthia's.

Glad to hear that you're going too.

Donna

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 09/17/2010:  00:56:24

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Nathan,

Isnīt this a little like cutting off your toes in order using a shoe size 1-2 numbers smaller than usual?

Being an anarchist I take nothing for granted - plus I do always go down to basics.

And basics make me asking - why on earth donīt you sit down while playing?

Polle

NYCJazz - Posted - 09/18/2010:  06:38:12

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Polle

There are times that I prefer to have the option to move easily when I play.

If I have a choice, I will sit so I have the option of using the Soft Pedal.

Donna

I'm very much looking forward to meeting you! As I write this, I'm about to leave from Newton, MA to Holyoke!
See ya!

tomberghan - Posted - 09/18/2010:  14:36:01

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This video aptly demonstrates the pros & cons of looking at the fret-board versus not looking . . . and standing versus sitting. And, as a bonus . . . the (ahem) correct way to use a soft pedal knee mute.

youtube.com/watch?v=n5OfaukAb50

argus1 - Posted - 09/19/2010:  22:24:44

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Nathan - it was great meeting you this weekend. Had a great time at Cynthia's workshop. And your bubble wrap roll was quite
inventive!

Donna

Compass56 - Posted - 09/29/2010:  10:42:46

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Polle, since I starting studying with you, I've been looking at the fretboard much more than I used to!

banjopa - Posted - 09/29/2010:  11:17:56

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Very rarely do I stand to play. Mostly like to sit on a high stool. When I am improvising, I always look at the fingerboard because I am looking to see note positions. I "visualize" the chord inversions and play those notes with a few passing tones in between.
If I am reading music, which I am very comfortable doing, then I almost never look at the fingerboard. If I am playing a memorized tune, then I might look at the pretty girl in the front row. Lately that has been Donna! :)