bohemian - Posted - 08/24/2010:  07:52:46

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For those of you playing "jazz"....

Are you using standard G tuning or C or does it depend on the piece of music.

Thanks

pearcemusic - Posted - 08/24/2010:  09:49:23

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G always .. for me

minstrelmike - Posted - 08/24/2010:  10:06:07

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I use G.

I recommend people stay with a single tuning if they want to improvise quickly.

Essentially, you can play any song in any key in any tuning so why spend time learning different fingerings for a different tuning?

The only reason I can think of is to make use of the open strings in the new tuning which means you have cut back on your ability to improvise. The new tuning only works well in a few keys. If you learn all closed chords, then listen and see if there is any significant difference in playing the same song using closed chords in both tunings. The difference ought to be noticeable enough that it is worth spending time learning a whole new set of chords.

That is the basic cost/benefit of tunings.

evanpanderson7 - Posted - 08/24/2010:  10:11:49

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C tuning gives you another note... instead of having the same note twice with identical D strings... i use both

Ragaisis - Posted - 08/24/2010:  10:14:41

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I know that banjo virtuoso Pete Schwimmer (Schwimbo here on BHO) has tuned the 1st string up to an E on occasion to match a guitar.

I stay with open G tuning, though.

Chris

Banjophobic - Posted - 08/24/2010:  10:36:25

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Ive used many alternate tunings, and still do. But for playing 'jazz', I find it much easier to just stay in standard G tuning. Retuning means re-learning chord shapes and scale pathways. Im lazy...

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Edited by - Banjophobic on 09/01/2010 18:04:05

bohemian - Posted - 08/24/2010:  19:53:47

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Thanks very much

G tuning it is....

with maybe a venture into the C on the 4th string...

Any you tube recommendations for some banjo jazz.. ?

Thanks very much

evanpanderson7 - Posted - 08/24/2010:  19:59:50

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Try Pat Cloud's website, under the jazz section. He has 4 tunes posted. One or two of em are played with electric guitar and then the banjo comes in for the soloing but those four tunes are great.

As for YOUTUBE, again there's Pat Cloud, there's a Bela and Chic Corea, there's Ryan Cavanaugh, then there is Banjoryan (Cavanaugh?) with a Bop version of Cherokee that's very good.

I mean that's for fingerpicking. Flatpicking is a whole nother (bigger) deal with the jazz banjo, and Cynthia Sayer is all I know in that realm. She's good.

I mean don't be afraid to dig up some 20's and 30's blues banjo too... maybe not on youtube, but other places.

schwimbo - Posted - 08/25/2010:  00:09:41

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Hi Ragaisis (Chris), I don't "cheat" and tune the banjo like a guitar these days. I figure, I'll just play some jazz on guitar, and if I ever get caught without a guitar and have to play some jazz on the banjo, I'll do it in in G tuning. The 5th relationship between the 3rd and 1st string lead to some very easily played arpeggios (played like you would play them on a fiddle or mandolin), and if you tuned the banjo like a guitar, you would lose that.

For jazz banjo, I like to listen to Tom Slavicek (who has a 6 string banjo tuned like a standard 5 string but with a low A string added), and Mickey Reeves too (who is coming along great as a more modern player).

jbraun002 - Posted - 08/26/2010:  06:01:26

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Initially I tried tuning in 4ths like I was tuning on the guitar - that wasn't ultimately a successful experiment, since I couldn't get the tension right. In any event, I later just tuned in standard open G.

I'm now a big fan of open G and tune my guitar to it as well. I find the scales really lay themselves out nicely in open G, and although I lose some range compared to a 4ths or standard guitar tuning, I like the layout better.

One tip: I initially found open G a pain because of the common 3-3-2-2 diatonic scale patterns (i.e., 3 notes on the 4th string, 3 notes on the 3rd, 2 on the second, and so on). When I switched to 3-3-1-3 patterns, the scales were easier to learn and play (imo). The parallelism between strings 4 and 1 helps. And makes for easy octaves to boot.

Btw - you meant "standard" straight-ahead, post-bop jazz, right? I.e., not trad. jazz?

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Edited by - jbraun002 on 08/26/2010 06:03:08

bohemian - Posted - 08/27/2010:  22:32:17

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I am not really certain about the various types and periods of jazz,
If you could give me a time frame , and perhaps a jazz guitarist of each
period, that would help.

I suppose I would mean Wes Montgomery , Herb Ellis, Joe Pass etc
But I also like Eddie Lang ....

jbraun002 - Posted - 08/30/2010:  13:02:08

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"Trad. jazz" is another name for dixieland jazz. The reason I asked is that both dixieland players will, appropriately, call themselves jazz banjo players. However, that can sometimes lead to confusions when someone is asking how to play jazz banjo - especially tuning-wise. Different dixie cats also have different tunings, sometimes depending on the banjo they use (plectrum vs. tenor), and sometimes depending on voicing preference (e.g., C-G-B-D is standard plectrum tuning, but some folks like "Chicago" tuning, which is D-G-B-E).

Anyhow - sounds like you were asking about straight-ahead jazz more or less.

Good to see all these responses! I didn't realize so many folks played jazz on their banjos.

Ragaisis - Posted - 08/31/2010:  09:51:16

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quote:

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Originally posted by schwimbo

Hi Ragaisis (Chris), I don't "cheat" and tune the banjo like a guitar these days. I figure, I'll just play some jazz on guitar, and if I ever get caught without a guitar and have to play some jazz on the banjo, I'll do it in in G tuning.

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I believe that's the advice that you gave me way back when... In fact both you and Tony Trischka advised me to give the standard open G tuning a chance for everything before deciding on alternate tunings, capos, etc. It certainly helps learn the neck. ;-)

Chris

Garbageman007 - Posted - 09/08/2010:  22:59:29

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i use baroque tuning of A415.3 hz and always tune to an open F#maj7#11 chord

schwimbo - Posted - 09/08/2010:  23:33:53

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Hey Mickey,

I don't think you really do that. When people hear you play, they might just try doing that if that would give them the "secret to your success".

JoeDownes - Posted - 09/09/2010:  03:28:10

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I know many jazz chord voicings and the scales on guitar, and I think there are some advantages for tuning the 1st string to up to E.

Single string playing gets easier with 3 notes on the second string.

Extended chord voicings seem to be easier when the 1st and 4th are not tuned as octaves.

Anyway that's what I experienced as I looked for open G patterns that substitute for the guitar tuning patterns I know. Tuning the banjo like the top4 strings of a guitar would also make it much easier to learn from jazz guitar resources.

What do you consider the advantages of open G tuning, when playing jazz?
What do you use the 5th string for?

jbraun002 - Posted - 09/10/2010:  07:08:08

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Interesting Joe - you and I have opposite experiences as I have little love for the guitar's standard tuning. Some voicing are easier, of course, but nothing that can't be made up for via subs (imo).

I personally think of open G as a great tuning for scale layout, much more finger friendly than D-G-B-E. Arpeggios seem basically the same level of difficulty as standard guitar tuning, but the scale patterns are nicer imo (3-3-1-3). You can, of course, do 3-note-per-string scale stuff on the guitar tuning, but a shift from the G string to the B string always feels awkward (for me). I much prefer the 3-3-1-3 approach. I only lose 2 notes before needing to shift as well.

(But what works for one does not work for another, so YMMV)

I haven't personally figured out a way to work in the 5th string. I do practice some scales using it (doing roll like scales), but I haven't gotten to the point of integrating that stuff into a live setting.

lunamoth - Posted - 09/14/2010:  11:23:36

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Hey Jazz players,
I am trying to find a beginning jazz book by David Crisler call An Introduction to Jazz Improvisation
for the 5 String Banjo, Vol. I
I found vol 2 but apparently the book is out of print. I play 5string in G and am trying to make the bridge from the bluegrass world.

anyone have this book or know where I could get it or another good book on the subject, I would greatly appreciate it.

thanks!!!

JoeDownes - Posted - 09/15/2010:  01:36:36

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lunamoth, I found the book at bopjo.com: bopjo.com/store.html

jbraun002, the guitar tuning is what I'm used to, and it works great for jazz voicings, like in this video instruction: youtube.com/watch?v=-hFBa3EMyWE.

What are your favorite II-V-I voicings in G-tuning?

lunamoth - Posted - 09/15/2010:  05:12:21

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thanks....the bopjo site is where i saw it originally and if you click on the link it is no longer avail...did the hunt and got as far as someone with Crisler's phone number at Acutunes and still no dice.

I am just starting out in the jazz world so no favs...tho Coltrane, Fitzgerald and all the classics are near and dear :)

I will check out the link you sent...thanks so much for the help

minstrelmike - Posted - 09/15/2010:  05:59:54

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Nathan Torkington's site has some good stuff.

tab archive:
nathan.torkington.com/banjo/tab/

some audio files: nathan.torkington.com/banjo/

lunamoth - Posted - 09/16/2010:  05:36:06

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I realize I hijacked this thread. So to make good, I will return to subject :D I play in G tuning...at the majority advice in this thread, I think I will continue in this tuning for purposes of branching out to jazz....tho I have tried tuning the high G to A and such for bluegrass tunes. And wouldn't be opposed to experimenting in trying another tuning for the drone that may lend itself to a neat sound on particular songs.

banjofanatico - Posted - 09/19/2010:  07:25:48

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I kind of like C tuning (CGBD) because you get a couple extra bass notes and the lower string tension on that string by tuning it down makes it sound a little more like a bass string.


David

banjopaolo - Posted - 09/28/2010:  01:13:48

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I'm a jazz player but with tenor banjo.... fifth tuning is great for jazz harmonies!