Compass56 - Posted - 08/20/2010:  17:46:50

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For the last three or four months, I've been thinking about changing to a more conventional pick grip. When I was one on one with Don Vappie a couple of weeks ago, he immediately told me that I had to change my grip. He noticed tightness in my right hand, and he heard problems in my playing that he said pointed to a need for a grip change. He told me that he went through the exact same grip change many years ago. When he made his grip change, he was a pro doing a gig in Paris. He said the first few months involved split fingernails, bleeding fingers, and inaccurate playing. He said that once the change was complete. he couldn't imagine playing with his old grip at a level of proficiency anywhere near where it needed to be.

I had been thinking about the move for months, so when he said what he said, my mind started really spinning with ideas of giving this switch a try when I got home. I didn't have any gigs for a week after I got home from New Orleans, so I knew I would have a decent amount of time to jump start the switch. Then, on Monday, August 16th, I burned my middle finger pad on my barbeque pit pretty badly. This burn would have made the old grip impossible on the gig I had on Wednesday night (August 18th). I used the new pick grip exclusively on that gig with mixed results. There was no drummer on the 4-piece gig (helicon, banjo, trumpet, alto & soprano sax), so I had to lay down good time all night. I did so. My rhythm playing was solid, but I don't know how well I would have soloed because I told the others to handle the solo work so that I could concentrate on being the snare drum sound as well as the strings in this drumless environment. The grip was not uncomfortable at all, but I noticed that the point of the pick would shift during the course of a song. When the song would start, the point would be basically pointing at the banjo head. By the middle of the song, the tip of the pick would be pointing toward at 12th fret or so. I found it difficult to move the pick back to it's original position in the middle of a song, so I often played the rest of a song with the pick's side instead of its front region. This shift happened on most of the fast songs and none of the slow ones.

My 50th birthday is less than six months away. Am I too old to make such a switch? Right now I feel frustrated but really determined. Any advice or thoughts would be more than welcomed.

Thanks

Tony L.

tomberghan - Posted - 08/20/2010:  23:05:59

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Hi Tony,
First, how exactly are were you holding it and how are now trying to hold it? Here are photos of two popular styles:

1)


2)


I think you can change . . . you are not too old. But it is like learning anything . . . if you want to go fast, you must practice slowly! Hold the pick in the new way and play scales slowly for ten minutes, then play simple pieces . . . single note melody style and then chord vamps. You will get it.

But let us know more about how you are trying to hold it.

Either way, I think "stay loose" and relaxed is good advice. Don't grip too tightly!
Best Wishes, Tom

You can do it!!!

Grumpy1 - Posted - 08/21/2010:  00:52:07

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I've never been able to hold a pick properly due to an awkwardly broken thumb many years ago. What I do is use an thumb pick and grip the ring portion as if it were a regular pick (with guitar). This eliminates the rotating, as you described, and keeps my hand from locking up due to the grip. I've recently acquired a brass Acri pick and I really like the feel of it rather than plastic. I don't play a tenor (yet) but this seems like it can readily transfer over.

Compass56 - Posted - 08/21/2010:  03:18:23

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Thanks for the encouraging words. I certainly need them. I'm a beginner at banjo right now. That's a weird feeling after all of these years of professional playing.

I've always held the pick between the pads of my first two fingers and the pad of my thumb. Now, I'm trying to change to a grip like your #2 photo: The pick rests between the side of the curled first finger and the pad of the thumb with the the other fingers tucked underneath.



Tony L.

aroblin - Posted - 08/21/2010:  06:34:30

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Tony--Have you checked out Buddy Wachter's Homespun video for tenor? He goes into great detail about pick grip, recommending the same grip--like #2 above--as Don Vappie.

Eddie Davis has written recently and repeatedly about his high regard for Wachter's playing.

Hang in there with the change. It will help you.

Andrew

beezaboy - Posted - 08/21/2010:  07:19:37

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Tony:
I have been using Grip #2 for two years now using
fender medium.

Same thing happens to you happens to me. Start out
with pick tip facing head. Soon pick tip is facing heel.

But, being aware causes you to focus on holding pick
"straight" and after awhile the slippage happens less
and less. Don't ask me why.

I've tried "remedies" like different picks with scored tops
and gorilla snot. I don't like the snot because the pick
sticks to you and you loose flexibility. I haven't found a
top scored pick that I like so keep with the Fender.

Some say burn a hole in pick top with a solder iron to
get better grip but I haven't tried this.

Perhaps someone will wade in with the perfect solution.

You are not alone. But, of course, that doesn't help much.
John

yellowdog - Posted - 08/21/2010:  08:08:25

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Hi Tony

Something else that you might consider is to use (at least for a while) a pick like Dunlop's nylon picks that have raised parallel lines to help improve grip and avoid slippage. Other manufacturers offer them as well. Using such a pick doesn't have to be a permanent solution because you will gain enough pick control to switch back to a pick without lines, as I did recently for Irish banjo, going from a Dunlop .50 mm nylon pick with lines to a Dunlop Tortex .50 mm without lines. I didn't have any trouble making the switch.

When you switch to the three finger grip to the two finger grip you might have wondered what to do with the then free middle finger. I've found that it can play an important part in volume control and in easing fatigue if you place the side of end joint of the middle finger over the "hangnail" location of the index finger. Applying a slight pressure by the middle finger to the index finger supports it wonderfully, adding volume when needed because of the pressure from the middle finger, or playing with the same volume giving the muscles in the index finger a rest during a long gig. (The force to hold the pick in position goes from the muscles of the middle finger through the relaxed index finger to the pick.)

Your fingers will adjust and age may be a factor but it is certainly not a significant one - or hasn't been with me, (73d birthday last month).

Frank

tomberghan - Posted - 08/21/2010:  10:30:31

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What Frank said. Good advice!

Thumb and two fingers huh? Yes, I would change. I also hold my plectrum with the #2 above.

When I add my middle finger into the mix as you have been doing it makes trebles difficult and all fast picking much harder I think. Why? Because it restricts the pick from moving perpendicular-to-the-flat-side of the pick. I want the pick to be able to move perpendicular.

Here is my method (which may or may not work for you)
I prefer to hold the plectrum such that it is loose enough to gently wiggle perpendicular to the flat side of the pick. I do not like a flexible plectrum (i.e. thin plectrum) and I personally do not like the Tortex . . . but there are obviously LOTS of great pickers who do like them and play very well with them! I like the Dunlop standard Nylon 1mm pick, which is textured under the thumb and forefinger pads. I gently rest my little finger and part of my ring finger on the head but just gently. The fingers slide around on the head as I pick . . . the hand position stays pretty much the the same as I play, and I mostly move from the elbow and not the wrist (the wrist move just a little). I grip the plectrum so lightly that it almost falls out of my hand . . . but I never drop my pick (I don't have a problem with that). I drive the pick into the string(s) with only a wee bit of the tip unless I want to accent with a lot of volume and then I drive the tip in a little deeper. I tend to use the rest stroke with my plectrum (drive the plectrum through the string and lightly rest against the next string . . . the rest is only a nano second).

Link to Dunlop plectrums
jimdunlop.com/index.php?.../picks&cat=6

Compass56 - Posted - 08/21/2010:  16:04:41

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I just got home from a gig (a wedding reception). It was mainly electric guitar and some tenor banjo. I used the new grip exclusively (except when I when back momentarily without realizing it) on both instruments. The results weren't bad, but certainly nowhere near where they need to be eventually. Keeping good time with 4 x 4 down strokes is not a problem. The upstrokes are the problem. I'm miles away from nailing the upstrokes with any sense of smoothness.

I'm definitely not giving up, but I'm certainly depressed at this point.

Tony L.

argus1 - Posted - 08/21/2010:  16:29:14

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Hi Tony - I used to hold the pick just like you (3 fingers) but a couple months ago decided I had to change. Playing chords wasn't a problem with that grip but it was impossible to get speed on a tremolo or single string or play decent chord melody. I hold the pick similar to #1 above (I lightly slide my ring and pinky on the head - seems to give me some control) and as Frank said, middle finger on the index gives support. But different from Tom, all my motion is from the wrist not the elbow. It has been very frustrating to change but has made a big difference - it just takes time. You'll eventually find the position that feels most comfortable and gives you control - different for everyone. Of course I'm nowhere near you in terms of skill but eventually the pick change will feel right.

Donna

Compass56 - Posted - 08/22/2010:  20:21:57

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Thanks all. Yes, I've watched Mr. Wachter's DVD many, many times. Mainly, it just makes me more frustrated. His hand position and tone are so perfect!

I spent the day away from the tenor. I practiced the new grip on my guitar all day. It is at least as difficult (if not more so) to utilize that grip on the guitar. That fact may be due to the very thick guitar pick I use. (It's a black Dunlop that says 208 on it.)

Anyway, that's it for tonight. I'm going to bed.

Frustrated But Determined in Birmingham

Tony L.

Compass56 - Posted - 08/23/2010:  09:11:16

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Tonight's music time will be devoted to tenor banjo in general and the new grip specifically. I'll probably start out playing some scales and modes with a metronome at a nice, slow tempo, and then play some chord/melody ballads. ("Mood Indigo," "Someone to Watch Over Me," "It's the Talk of Town," "Body & Soul," etc.) I'll finish the session with uptempo chord playing and a few elementery (i.e. weak) attempts at Tremolo a la Grip #2.

That's the plan anyway.

Tony L.

RUBY2 - Posted - 08/23/2010:  11:08:27

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Hi Tony

Fingers crossed for you with your new pick grip (pardon the pun).

I also use the #2 grip, but as a beginner I can't give you much help apart from support.
I am finding slowly over time that my pick control is steadily getting better although I still get my pick stuck on the up strokes sometimes.

Steve has shown me to tilt the pick both up at the tip end and also with the tip slightly facing towards the tailpiece, only slightly mind ( you probably already know this).

All the best with it. Hope you settle into it soon.

Cheers

Richard

Compass56 - Posted - 08/23/2010:  14:50:59

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Hey thanks Richard. Your encouragement (and everyone else on this great forum) is so important to me. I just got home from work, so I'm about to go do a pre-dinner practice session.

Tony L.

tomberghan - Posted - 08/23/2010:  15:29:27

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For what it is worth . . . here are a couple of guys who are using heavy plectrums and lots of the rest stroke I talking about. Andreas Oberg does not rest his little finger at all, whereas Frank Vignola does . . . so you can see both styles.

I think the techniques of the these pickers is basically what we are discussing . . . even if they are not playing banjos.

youtube.com/watch?v=zfOCt3SCKAQ

Compass56 - Posted - 08/23/2010:  17:24:40

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My pick of choice for tenor banjo has always been the grey nylon Jim Dunlop .88 pick. This pick is much thinner than the black Dunlop 208 that I use on guitar. I'm trying to make the pick grip change on both instruments. The grip change is equally tough on the two instruments (and with the corresponding picks that go with those instruments).

After Dinner, I'll try some guitar.

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Edited by - Compass56 on 09/05/2010 07:58:18

Compass56 - Posted - 08/29/2010:  07:03:48

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I'm still working on the switch. It's my main musical focus right now.

RUBY2 - Posted - 08/29/2010:  09:35:43

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Hi Tony
I was just wondering if you hold your pick pointing directly at your banjo head or like I am being taught?

I am using the same grip as you, but am angling the pick towards the tailpiece slightly also I tilt the pick both up at the tip end and also with the pick slanting at a slight angle too.

Is any of this something that you do?

Cheers

Richard

argus1 - Posted - 08/29/2010:  13:41:16

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Hi Richard - I would think pointing the pick directly at the banjo head would give you some difficulty on the upstroke and getting a decent tremolo. At least I find that harder. Obviously I'm holding it similar to you since we both take lessons from Steve (although I lightly slide my pinky and ring finger on the head). Takes awhile to get comfortable with it I find.

Donna

Compass56 - Posted - 08/29/2010:  14:28:24

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Yes, I'm trying to angle it (same as you two), but like I keep saying, I'm a beginner at this stage. You two are way beyond me. I should be taking lessons from you two.

Tony L.

RUBY2 - Posted - 08/29/2010:  15:26:24

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Hi Donna/Tony
Thanks for that. I am finding my single string tremelo is getting smoother over time (slow process). Just starting multi string tremelo now. I think I need some ear plugs whilst I practice now. LOL. Oh and my poor dogs too.
I am sure this will come with time too.
Fingers crossed for you Tony with your new pick grip
I very much doubt I am in front of you Tony, even with this.
Thanks again

RUBY2 - Posted - 08/29/2010:  15:30:52

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Donna
Sorry I forgot to ask, do you shift your pick grip/angle at all whilst playing?
ie from single string or strumming chords to tremelo on all four strings etc?
Cheers
Richard

argus1 - Posted - 08/29/2010:  22:59:50

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Richard -

I try not to shift it at all. Some of my problem (I think) is that I'm left handed but playing it as right handed - so I never feel like I have a firm grip on the pick. Steve also pointed out that I was anchoring it too much on the head. That has made a big difference now keeping a loose wrist (for strumming and tremolo). I am still working on the tremolo - I tend to lean more toward tremolo on first 2 strings. I do find that if I'm playing a song that's single string where I'm not using tremolo (like NOLA or Russian Rag) I tend to revert back to the 3 finger grip (I have to stop doing that). The key - as always - is practice every day.

Tony - as I listen to that terrific cd of yours, we'll discuss who the beginner is (it certainly isn't you)!!

Donna

Compass56 - Posted - 08/30/2010:  04:25:18

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Hey Donna, I'm a leftie playing right handed too.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 08/30/2010:  05:23:16

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Donna & Tony,

Ha-Ha - also I´m a lefty playing righty!

When I started on the banjo 49 years ago - at the age of 14 - putting together a banjo and teaching myself at first hand - I had no idea about the possibility turning the instrument 180 degrees.

Today - who cares? I can´t imagine myself playing a lefty banjo now.

Polle

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Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 08/30/2010 05:25:51

RUBY2 - Posted - 08/30/2010:  05:56:32

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Hi Donna
Thanks for that.
I will persevere with the pick/wrist grip. I think my problem is just a combination of a relatively new pick grip and hand position and also achey sprained wrists causing me pain and to tense up and create even more pain and poor playing technique.
Also only having a year or so of playing is probably another issue. Lol.
Cheers
Richard

Compass56 - Posted - 08/30/2010:  08:30:35

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Donna & Richard, as I read the last few posts, one very uplifting thought keeps keeps finding its way into my head: In terms of 4-string banjo playing, the three of us are all going to be just fine.

Tony L.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 08/30/2010:  09:27:26

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Tony,

quote:

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the three of us are all going to be just fine

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Yes - however be very patient - it took me appr. 40 years getting there! Ha-Ha-Ha!

Polle

RUBY2 - Posted - 08/30/2010:  10:24:24

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Hi Polle
Roll on my 76th Birthday LOL.
Only kidding tee hee.
Richard

RUBY2 - Posted - 08/30/2010:  10:26:57

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Hi Tony
What wonderful uplifting thoughts.
I will think of that statement when I don't feel like picking up my banjo.
Many thanks
Richard

mainejohn - Posted - 08/30/2010:  10:57:24

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An interesting and helpful thread. For the past 45 years I've been holding the pick with just thumb and forefinger, because adding the middle finger to the mix doesn't give me the light touch that I like. I'm afraid that's all going to have to change, however, as the knuckle that connects my forefinger to my hand has developed some arthritis, thus I no longer have any lateral strength in the forefinger, the result being that I lose my grip on the pick (normally a Dunlop .073 or .060). I see that I'll need to develop a pick/strum style that allows the middle finger to back up the forefinger, and at age 67 I'm hoping that's achievable, but so far, it's been discouraging.

Compass56 - Posted - 08/30/2010:  14:45:18

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John, if I can do it, anyone can do it. Just go at it with a a real sense of vigor and gusto. Spend every spare moment teaching your hands to remember the new grip. It'll work.

Tony L.

Compass56 - Posted - 08/30/2010:  18:58:08

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'Just had a decent one hour practice session on tenor banjo while watching the Marx Brothers' Monkey Business on TCM. I must say that I am enjoying the challenge of this grip switch thing. I hope others aren't getting bored with all of the grip switch talk, but that's me. I tend to write about myself to keep me in the moment. Thanks for tolerating all of the posts. They are really helping me make the switch.

Tony L.

argus1 - Posted - 08/30/2010:  19:06:39

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Tony & Polle - lefties playing righty! The way you 2 play shows there's hope for me

But Polle - 40 years! Good grief - I'll be in the heavenly choir! I'm happy it's starting to feel a little more natural over the past month.

Tony - don't mind your posts at all, helps to know others are experiencing the same frustrations (and hopefully - victories).

Donna

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Edited by - argus1 on 09/01/2010 22:38:00

drybones - Posted - 08/31/2010:  04:33:01

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I've been using a Dunlop .60 and hold it so it curves up, rather than down, when held. (Thumb goes on the side that says "Nylon.") Is that what everyone else does? It seems like that's what's intended -- but the pick catches a bit on the up swing.

db

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 08/31/2010:  06:38:10

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Hi All,

I had decided not posting at this thread - as my pick grips, striking/picking techniques etc. are totally different from most of yours and others - however some additional issues have popped up now - so here I am anyway! Sorry!

First - a little about me:

I´m first of all a jazz tenor banjo player - using many unusual and advanced techniques.

I use only very heavy picks - my favorite is a Red Bear Tortois Triangular Standard Beveled Medium Gauge - appr. 1,25 mm - pick.

I´m using 4-5 different pick grips - plus a lot of in-betweens - I´ll shift between them within a split second - I´ll use whatever grip, that´s most suited in the moment. This due to the many different playing styles often used in jazz tenor playing.

My striking/picking position will go from close to the bridge and up over the end of the fretboard.

I´ll angle, tilt or whatever the pick in order obtaining a desired sound - in combination with f.ex. the pick position.

I´ll use both my right hand free fingers as well as the pick itself for damping/shortening the sustain. Tom has mentioned the rest stroke - I´m f.ex. using a reversed rest stroke for this purpose.

Etc. Etc. - to most of you lovely Gents/Ladies this may sound totally alien-like - BUT - this is how I play.

Now to some of you guys:

John C.,
I do know many players at your/my age - with beginning arthritis problems - including myself - my advice for you will be - try either the enforced 2-finger grip (as previously recommended by Frank) - stretch your index finger a little - and lay your middle finger over it - somehow like this:



or try an absolute alien-grip - hold the pick with the pads of your thumb and middle finger - plus support the edge/corner of the pick with the tip of your index finger - like this:



BTW - this is the grip, that I´m using most of the time.

Maybe these grips will help you somehow.

Donna,
I played "privately" for the first 30 years or so - my pro-career started at the age of 46 - plus my real improvements started at the age of 53 - only 10 years ago.

I´m absolutely not typical - I do f.ex. often meet youngsters, that have reached a high level within 10 years or so.

Tony,
It has been very interesting following both your jazz camp tour and now your pick grip change - please write more about your personal experiences - we can all learn something from your very blunt postings/statements. Thanks on behalf of the WW banjo community!

Polle

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Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 08/31/2010 22:59:49

Compass56 - Posted - 08/31/2010:  08:30:10

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I did a little practice session on tenor this morning (with the new grip of course) and a noticed that the three biggest problem areas with the new grip are the following: (1) making upstrokes match my down strokes in volume, accuracy, and dynamics, (2) tremolo, and (3) playing both chords and single string notes in the same musical passage at a tempo faster that ballad speed. Does anyone have any thoughts on making improvements in any or all of these areas.

Tony L.

RUBY2 - Posted - 08/31/2010:  13:50:10

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Tony.
You have just read my mind. #58373;
I have exactly the same problems. #58375;
I hope you get some good helpful answers for yours/donna's and my problems. LOL #58389;
Fingers crossed for our answers.
Richard

RUBY2 - Posted - 08/31/2010:  13:56:03

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DOH!
Those smiley faces off my iPhone don't work.
Richard

Compass56 - Posted - 09/01/2010:  04:22:19

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Polle, I appreciate you comments and suggestions. I learn much from them. I'd be curious to know what you meant when you described my posts as "blunt." That word can be used in a myriad of ways. How did you mean it?

Tony L.

banjofanatico - Posted - 09/01/2010:  07:34:40

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I always carry a protractor in my pocket and then measure the pick angle of incidence with an imaginary arc subtending a line stretching due North - if it's not exactly 17 1/2 degrees, I wouldn't even THINK about playing the banjo.

David

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 09/01/2010:  09:50:05

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Tony,

Ha-Ha - only today I found out how to spell "blunt" - maybe I´m also wrong about the meaning of the word.

What I wanted to say is, that you in your postings are very direct and honest - you don´t hide anything - you put everything, positive as well as negative, out in the open.

I like that very very much. I have personal contacts with hundreds of banjo players and other musicians - let me tell you, that many of these are not as "blunt" as you - I do often have big problems dealing with their talks and tellings, musical problems etc. etc.

So it´s been a joy so far reading your postings - both from the jazz camp and regarding different banjo stuff.

I´ve just now had a 6 hour visit from my best friend - one of the most experienced and estimated jazz banjo players in Northen Europe. In our talks I put in the whole pick grip issue - I´ll later come up with a posting about the outcome of our talk. You and others will be surprised, I guess.

Tony - please keep on posting like you´ve done so far - it´s so refreshing - and we can all learn a lot from it.

And please tell me about any wrong meaning of the word "blunt". LOL! I´m an alien, you know.

Kindly regards

Polle

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Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 09/01/2010 22:42:20

Compass56 - Posted - 09/01/2010:  10:23:44

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Thanks Polle. Now, if only some of your banjo magic would rub off on me . . . .

argus1 - Posted - 09/01/2010:  22:43:27

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Polle - That's an interesting grip that you mainly use. Is it difficult to tremolo with that grip?

Donna

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 09/01/2010:  22:53:49

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Donna,

I´ll try telling more about this later today (tomorrow for you US citiziens).

Tony,

You did in your first posting write, that you had thoughts about a pick grip change - months before you met Don Vappie.

What was the background for these thoughts? I´m trying to get a picture of your "situation" pre-Don.

Polle

Compass56 - Posted - 09/02/2010:  04:04:34

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Yes Polle, you're absolutely right. I had been thinking about wanting to try to make the pick grip change since May or June of this year. Most of my tenor banjo gigs are with my main group, the Pineapple Skinners. The music of that group can be pulled off with the old grip pretty easily. However, when I was alone and practicing: I was faced with an undeniable Truth that wouldn't go away: There are many rhythms and feels that I'm hearing in my head and on records that I cannot do with this old grip. (I'm sure there are other banjoists can do everything that they want to do with the old grip, but I couldn't.) I was in a tough spot. If I stuck with the old grip, I could be successful in terms of gigs, but my chance for musical growth would be diminished significantly. On the other hand, if I tried to make the switch, I would have (I believe) an opportunity for musical growth in the long term (the future), but in the short term (the present) I would a struggling banjoist at a very elementary level in terms of my right hand technique because I would be playing gigs while trying to make the switch. I never actually made a decision on this issue. The choice was made for me. When I made the decision to go to New Orleans, I told myself to view the experience, not as some sort of fantasy camp (as some campers did) but as a classroom experience. "Learn as much as you can," I told myself. "And put into practice what you learn." Well, the very next day (after hearing me play and seeing my technique), Mr. Vappie told me that I couldn't do much more than I do with my old grip. He told me that I should make a change and he told me to what grip I should change. (No, he did not suggest it. He was adamant about the importance of making the pick grip change.) He went on to tell me that he went through a similar pick grip change well into his pro career. After (1) me thinking about a change all Summer, (2) me telling myself to put into practice what the instructors say, and (3) My banjo instructor Don saying to make the change, I felt like I had to try to do it.

So, it's been a month, and I'm still spending as much time as I can trying to internalize this new grip.

Tony L.

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Edited by - Compass56 on 12/24/2010 08:17:14

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 09/02/2010:  08:10:50

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Tony,

Thanks for once again being very "blunt"!

I did after your latest posting - inclusive of the info about your band - find 5 recordings at YouTube - with you and the rest of Pineapple Skinners - I did put on my studio headphones and polished my eyeglasses - and then I listened and watched.

Are you ready for a general critical evaluation of your playing?

At first hand I´ll however have to tell, that Don Vappie over the last 7-8 years has been a major inspiration for me - I have all of his CD-recordings - and we´ve met once or twice every year during his many tours here in DK. I´ve had many fine and jolly talks with both him and his lovely wife Millie. They do normally stay at some friends of mine during the tours.

Don is a fantastic musician and createur, but I do consider him wrong about your previous pick grip being the main obstacle for future improvements of your playing skills.

This consideration is also based on my personal experiences of Don as a teacher/valuater.

I´ll not go any further for now – I don´t want to discriminate Don in any way – especially if you do trust him completely.

I´ll gladly give you MY general critical evaluation of your playing – plus some recommendations - which I do for sure believe can help you in a better way than Don´s – but do only ask for it in case of any doubts. Plus do it at first hand off-line.

Pardon me for maybe being "blunt"!

Polle

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Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 09/02/2010 08:23:39

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 09/02/2010:  08:43:59

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Donna,

I´ll get back to you and others later - regarding the many different flat pick grips.

It´s very difficult and time demanding for me writing in english about these technicalities. Do remember - I´m an alien!

However - on basis of my personal experiences as a pro-player and teacher for established jazz banjo players - plus the talks/tests with my best friend yesterday - as mentioned above - I can for now assure you and others, that the thumb/middle finger pad grip - inclusive of an index finger support at the pick edge - is the best suited for all flat picking techniques.

This is revolutionairy stuff - more about it later.

Regards

Polle

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Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 09/02/2010 08:51:19

Compass56 - Posted - 09/02/2010:  09:05:01

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Polle, blunt is good.

Feel free to say anything that you feel about my playing. As for that those YouTube videos, that was a particularly bad night at a loud bar years ago. I hope that I've progressed since then. As for Don Vappie, he never said that my "previous pick grip [is] the main obstacle for future improvements of [my] playing skills." He simply said that I should make the move to the #2 grip pictured earlier in this thread. He said that my previous grip caused tension in my hand which he said is always a bad thing. He also said that if I stayed with my old grip, I would have a tough time ever getting better (faster, smoother, etc.) at playing single string passages. He went on to list three or four reasons why any banjoist (not just me) would benefit from moving from my old grip to my new one.

As for my playing, feel free to evaluate it as truthfully and honestly as you see fit. If you want a better example of my playing, my group did a CD about seven years ago called Over the Moon. It's certainly not great by any stretch of the imagination, but it is a much better representation of my playing than those clips you saw on YouTube. If you give me a mailing address, I'll be glad to send you a copy. Any criticism, suggestions, thoughts, or complaints that you have about my playing are more than welcomed. You're a pro player with decades of experience. I'm a semipro guitarist who plays tenor banjo on the side. Your opinions carry much weight with me.

Based on the comments in your recent post, I imagine that I'm pretty bad in your eyes. Please don't be gentle. Nothing your say about my playing could be anywhere near as harsh as what I think about how I sound.

Tony L.

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Edited by - Compass56 on 09/02/2010 10:17:17