RUBY2 - Posted - 02/06/2010:  09:34:19

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Hi All

I have just bought Mel Bays Tenor Banjo Chords.

I am now I bit confused, whilst I have been practicing my beginners banjo book I have been told that when doing a chord like D when I need to fret two strings with the same finger -'I should lay it flat right across the fretboard creating a barre to fret the third and fourth string'

This I have been practicig and doing fine, but now as I am putting more effort into learning the names and use of chords I am getting confused with the teaching of the chords in this book.
The book shows photos as well as a fretboard diagram to help, but the chords where I need the barre as above show just the tip of the finger fretting the third and fourth string together.

I have tried this style and seem to get my finger to part the two strings to each side of my finger most times I try it or I manage to fret just one string and not the other.
I also find I am trying so hard to fret both strings in this way that I can't keep my finger bent as I am putting so much pressure on my finger tip to get both strings to press onto the fret.

Is this a style that I need to get better at or can I manage by creating the flat barre across all the strings?

Many Thanks

Richard

argus1 - Posted - 02/06/2010:  10:58:55

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Using the D as an example, there is no problem barring at the second fret. The 1st and 2nd string will be held down at different frets to form the D chord so the fact that you are barring above them will not effect the sound of the chord.

Donna

RUBY2 - Posted - 02/06/2010:  11:11:33

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Thanks for that Donna

I can see what you are saying in that the first and second string are fretted further down the fretboard on this chord so it would not effect this particular chord.

Is there a great deal of importance in me learning the chords with just fretting the strings that I need ie fourth and third with the tip?

Is there times when I will need to be able to leave for example the second and first not fretted in this way?

Cheers

Richard

argus1 - Posted - 02/06/2010:  11:34:31

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Richard,
If you look through the chord book you'll see there are an awful lot of chords to learn! Not all chords can be formed by barring frets. So you do need to learn to use your fingers and fret each string - some of the stretches can be killers but you can get them with practice. Sometimes you may play an inside chord using only 3 strings so you need to cleanly fret the strings and not play the first string or mute that string. The chord diagrams will help in learning what finger to use and where it belongs. There are many chords where you will be able to barre but any note played below the bar will need to be fretted cleanly. For example, when I play a C chord (2nd position), I bar four strings at the 4th fret, bar three strings at the 5th fret, and play the E note on the first string with my pinky. Once you practice you will get used to the positions.

Donna

RUBY2 - Posted - 02/07/2010:  04:10:51

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Hi Donna

Got ya.

I am going to have to put some effort into fretting more than one string with the same finger as well as making sure I am not fretting the other two with it also.

Many thanks Donna for the nfretboard diagram. I will get that printed off at work. Cheers.

Let you know how I get on.

Richard

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 02/08/2010:  01:59:50

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Donna & Richard,

A minor but important correction - going up the fretboard means going towards the pot - not towards the peghead.

This means that f.ex. fret 7 is above fret 5 - not below as descriebed by both of you..

Using the correct direction will make your postings more understandable for other players.

However you´re not alone - LOL! Some of my students (mostly established jazz banjo players) are also moving towards the peghead, when I ask them to go up the fretboard in the search for different chord inversions etc. Indeed very disturbing for my teaching - LOL!

Richard,

You´ll need very fat fingers (like mine) for barring some strings with your finger tips. Do always use the flat side of the distal - plus sometimes the middle - part of your fingers.

A second advice - avoid barring more strings than needed - this will make your playing (chord shifting) more fluent.

Donna descriebes her finger settings for the C-chord 4-5-5-7 like this:

quote:

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I bar four strings at the 4th fret, bar three strings at the 5th fret, and play the E note on the first string with my pinky

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My advice for the fingering of this chord will be - index tip on string 4/fret 4 - flat side of middle fingers distal part as a bar on string 3&2/fret 5 - pinky tip on string 1/fret 7.

Kindly regards

Polle

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Edited by - Polle Flaunoe on 02/08/2010 02:05:37

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 02/08/2010:  02:21:48

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Richard,

PS!

I don´t know the mentioned Mel Bay book - but some players have told me, that similar books do often tell tenor players to place the flat side of the distal part of their left thumb at the back of the neck - all the time!

If your book does the same - let me tell you, that this is absolutely incorrect.

All skilled tenor players have their left thumb sticking up in the air at the bass side of the neck - like a violin/mandolin player - let´s say 90-95% of the time - LOL!

Kindly regards

Polle

banjopaolo - Posted - 02/08/2010:  13:04:12

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my suggestion is: play the chords with the fingering you feel more confortable.....

beezaboy - Posted - 02/08/2010:  18:41:40

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Polle, Polle, Polle....!!!

quote:

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All skilled tenor players have their left thumb sticking up in the air at the bass side of the neck - like a violin/mandolin player - let´s say 90-95% of the time - LOL!

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Tuned CGDA run G7 f.ex starting from first position inside chords all the way
up the neck (include alternate form at fret 5) then down to starting point a few
times. Where is your thumb??

Of course, nothing is "Always" but it seems to me it should be thumb on back
of neck 90-95%.

BTW - I have been reading some period literature from the early 1900's on playing the banjo where it is written....NEVER cradle the neck in the crook between thumb and first finger. NEVER!!

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 02/09/2010:  00:07:49

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John, John, John !!!!!!

You should maybe study the masters playing instead of the literature, that you´re referring to.

I guess, that most masters did never read such literature - containing directives like "NEVER cradle the neck in the crook between thumb and first finger".

Do f.ex. start studying:

Harry Reser
youtube.com/watch?v=DSk07z5Akfs

Eddy Davis
youtube.com/watch?v=sRhYxVaYKr...e=related

Most tenor players present plus even Mr. Wachter sometimes on the plectrum
youtube.com/watch?v=XzDU15nyFkU

Regards

Polle

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 02/09/2010:  00:34:15

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John,

PS!
We have a saying "Exaggeration improves the understanding" - LOL!

If it can please you, I´ll gladly remove the exaggeration and rephrase my statement in a more gentle way like this:

"Most skilled tenor banjo players are most of the time using the violin grip - including cradling the neck in the crook between thumb and first finger and having the thumb pointing up in the air"

beezaboy - Posted - 02/09/2010:  05:14:38

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Okay, Polle, I'll admit that as a former college professor I'm
more of a reader than a doer!

RUBY2 - Posted - 02/09/2010:  08:31:23

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Thanks for the extra replies.
I am a bit confused however by the term 'to use the flat side of the distal'?
sorry for my ignorance
Can you explain this for me Polle in simple 'idiot' terms LOL.
Cheers
Richard

RUBY2 - Posted - 02/09/2010:  08:37:50

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Oh I forgot to say Polle, that I have been putting a lot of effort into practicing your violin grip as you instructed a few months ago.

I do try to practice both the violin grip and also the standard palm/V off the banjo with some part of my thumb on the back for the opposite pressure to the strings.

I do find that the violin grip aids in your hand not aching half as much.

Cheers

Richard

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 02/11/2010:  00:44:07

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Richard,

The flat side of the distal part of your finger is the side opposite to the nail - LOL!

quote:

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I do find that the violin grip aids in your hand not aching half as much

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Exactly!

But - for relaxation - shift frequently between both or more grip styles.

Regards

Polle