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TLE - Posted - 01/29/2010: 14:49:48
Hello,
Is OME made overseas? I am looking for a nice open back with tone ring in the $800 range. I know that's a tough range. It seems like it's either a $350 beginners, or $1,200-1,500 for an entry level intermediate model. Perhaps I need to keep saving, since I want USA made only.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Terry
Oops, I meant Gold Tone.
Edited by - TLE on 01/29/2010 16:14:57
Ernest M - Posted - 01/29/2010: 15:02:16
Only if you consider Boulder, Colorado overseas. Ome is homegrown. Nice open back with tone ring? You don't say what kind, but there has been an Enoch Tradesmen with rolled brass tone ring that is in your price range in the classifieds, if still available:
http://www.banjohangout.org/classified/11092
But I would stick to entry level until you have been playing for a while. How about a 50-50 split? Gold Tone CC-OT. Parts made in China; assembled here in the good old USA. Has a tone ring, good sound for price and easy plucking.
Ernest
harvey - Posted - 01/29/2010: 15:24:53
New, you could try a Gold Tone. They are good banjos for the money, especially the WL-250 with a Whyte Laydie tone ring. Elderly has a new, but shop-played, Bob Carlin model for $725: http://www.elderly.com/new_instrume...TBC350SW.htm
But, before you buy new, I'd recommend that $800 is a good budget to try for a used, higher-level, hand-crafted banjo. $800 is sort of on that boundary. It might help if you could even make the $900 mark. Then you can perhaps find a Reiter Standard or a Ramsey Student.
Edited to remove references to the Tradesman, which does not have the tone ring the poster wants!
Edited by - harvey on 01/29/2010 15:26:53
jantcho - Posted - 01/29/2010: 15:25:49
The GoldTone CB-100 is great for the price.
The banjoteacher.com has them for $501 including shipping.
Put a new bridge in there and you have a great banjo
Bill Rogers - Posted - 01/29/2010: 15:52:46
Gary Shattl has posted a couple of conversion banjos in your price range. I also think Helix falls in there with some models. First place to look s the Hangout classifieds.
pluckyfingers - Posted - 01/29/2010: 15:57:58
You should be able to pick up a good used USA made Bart Reiter Standard open back for that price. Bart makes all his banjos to last and uses top parts. I'm extremely happy with mine.
Edited by - pluckyfingers on 01/29/2010 15:59:01
dbrooks - Posted - 01/29/2010: 16:51:11
You've gotten some good leads. Bart Reiter periodically puts a Standard model on Ebay. First Quality's openbacks, like the one in the current drawing, have gotten good early reviews.
David
Kitt - Posted - 01/29/2010: 17:19:16
Whatever you do, do not think in terms of Entry Level. That's a horrible phrase when applied to banjo shopping. It might apply to seeking some crappy job that you don't really want. It doesn't apply to buying the banjo that you want. If you want to buy a banjo find the one that most excites you that is in your price range. And don't discount buying used.
That's my buck and a quarter.
supah_g - Posted - 01/29/2010: 17:57:32
quote:
Originally posted by Kitt
Whatever you do, do not think in terms of Entry Level. That's a horrible phrase when applied to banjo shopping. It might apply to seeking some crappy job that you don't really want. It doesn't apply to buying the banjo that you want. If you want to buy a banjo find the one that most excites you that is in your price range. And don't discount buying used.
That's my buck and a quarter.
I'm not sure I share your disdain for the phrase "entry-level" or regard it as a strictly having a negative connotation, Kitt. I could see how having to accept an entry-level crappy job might be distasteful for a seasoned veteran in their respective field. However, some folks are just starting out, and would be happy to land an entry-level job, or acquire an entry-level, finely crafted banjo. Just my 2 bitz. IMHO, much of the difference in price points for a given maker has to do with ornamentation. I appreciate inlays, and carving, and asthetics, but they don't necessarily make the banjo or player sound any better. So FWIW, my advice for Terry would be to focus more on "plain Jane" type banjos to get the most banjo for your money considering your budget. I found a copy of a SS Stewart advert from way back. The same banjo was available in 3 levels of "fanciness." They cost $20, $30, & $40 respectively. Stewart claimed that they all shared the same grade of materials and workmanship. The $40 ones just had a lot of additional adornment vs. the $20 version. Cheers, & Happy Hunting, g.
Kitt - Posted - 01/29/2010: 18:12:33
quote:
I'm not sure I share your disdain for the phrase "entry-level" or regard it as a strictly having a negative connotation, Kitt. I could see how having to accept an entry-level crappy job might be distasteful for a seasoned veteran in their respective field. However, some folks are just starting out, and would be happy to land an entry-level job, or acquire an entry-level, finely crafted banjo.
I didn't say "strictly". I said when applying for a "crappy" job that "you didn't really want". That's not the same thing as applying for an "entry level" job in some field or job market that you are interested in. I bought my Wildwood Troubadour, used, originally for 400 dollars. I sold it to a friend and then bought it back years later (2006) for 600.00. That banjo has always been in excellent condition and never was or is an "entry level" banjo. That is an example of what my advice pertained to. His or her 800.00 is plenty enough to buy a fine quality banjo to which the words "entry level" would have no application to.
chip arnold - Posted - 01/29/2010: 18:15:31
Spend as much as you can. Buy a good quality used banjo if you can. The ones mentioned as being in the BHO classifieds are good instruments and you can sell them later without losing money. Buy a cheap, new "entry level" banjo and and you will lose money. A good, craftsman made banjo will be easier to play and much more responsive than a cheapie.
supah_g - Posted - 01/29/2010: 18:34:55
I don't want to quibble over semantics. I think I understood what the poster meant when he said "entry level intermediate model," and I don't expect $800 will gain him "entry" into the OME banjo owners club, new or used. It's all relative. I don't find the term "horrible." Let's agree to disagree.
Peace,
g.
pernicketylad - Posted - 01/29/2010: 18:37:03
That Tradesman looks great to me and the Fielding is good value too. I'd agree with Chip and Kitt on buying quality....tightens up your playing too......a banjo of lesser quality can cover up alot of sloppiness.
$800 should get you something well above "entry level"......I'd listen to all the sound samples you can. The Zepp videos are great for that.
The Fielding, the Tradesman and a Reiter will all sound quite different even though they've all got tone rings.
majikgator - Posted - 01/29/2010: 20:16:31
My Goldtone is designed and final assembly in Florida but that parts were made in Korea since then thay have moved to China, funny about the bridge comment on the CB-100 i've tried about two dozen different bridges and keep putting the factory bridge back on myself.Most Tradesman DO NOT have tone rings the one that has been in the classifieds for a long (long) time has an add on brass rod tone hoop, this does not mean that the Tradesmans are not a great banjo, it's just a difference in type of sound, there are some very pricy banjos that don't have tone rings and a lot of people that don't want them. If you can get a Enoch Tradesman or a used Reiter for that price don't think that you wouldn't have a great banjo even if it was the last one you ever had, listen to some people that play well play them like Zepp and i think you will find there is nothing cheap about them, you might have to do a little looking as that is just outside of your price range, good luck.
Edited by - majikgator on 01/29/2010 20:21:42
razzletazzle - Posted - 01/29/2010: 21:20:23
I just recently got an Enoch Tradesman myself. It was fretless for $850. I would definitely recommend it. It's really really playable and it sounds amazing.
dewbanjo - Posted - 01/30/2010: 06:15:37
Can't see where you live on your homepage....but "If" you are anyplace that has a real good music store you should "try out" some banjos and see what "feel/sound/tone" you like....
Maybe "click on" to Zepps Country Music Store web site and listen to some sound clips...or maybe go to Gold Tome's site too and do the same. After all, you'll be the one hearing your playing the most.
have fun!!
dewbanjo - Posted - 01/30/2010: 06:19:27
Oh, forgot to mention...my first open back was a Entry Level ...a Deering Goodtime...very happy... my next purchase (and probably last) Cherry Enoch Tradesman.
dewbanjo
Big Doug Nez - Posted - 01/30/2010: 06:56:52
I bought a WL-250 a year ago and still really like it. I would have preferred to buy a USA made but I couldn't find one that sounded the way I wanted it to for anywhere near the price. I don't think of an $800 banjo as entry level.. my "entry level" banjo was a used aluminum pot $175 cheapie. One day I believe I will own a Chuck Lee but until then I'm very pleased with the sound and quality of my Gold Tone. dewbanjo's advise is what I would say as well but I might add to consider what is important to you, there are a lot of decent banjos in you price range but the sound of them is going to vary quite a bit.
TLE - Posted - 02/01/2010: 08:30:26
Thank you all, very much. A lot of great info, and it looks like the classifieds here will be a great start.
Regards,
Terry
Big Doug Nez - Posted - 02/01/2010: 13:32:04
Troy, I would like to listen to a Sullivan banjo, they look great for the money but for me the proof is in the pudding. I went to their website and there sound byte/videos weren't going yet. Do you know of a youtube video of someone playing one?
Kitt - Posted - 02/01/2010: 13:45:33
The 'Featured Artist' section of their website provides two artists. One has a video, the other has an mp3. You have to click on the web addresses of each of them to locate the video and the sound file.
http://sullivanbanjo.com/sullivan/pro-staff.html
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 02/01/2010: 17:22:23
If you are going to spend more than the 300-350 that the Asian stuff starts at you might as well get a good banjo. Either something used or the Enoch tradesman. Ramseys show up periodically for 8 to 9 hundred and they are a bargain. There is Reiter too and a few others that I really don't know so can't actually recommend. Asian instruments are at their best price to quality level at the bottom. The 600 dollar Whyte Ladyes are a bit more than I think they are worth - they are loud and have the WL "ping" but they are all 11 inch rims and thy don't get any growl at all. For 900 you can find a better sounding banjo with only a brass ring. The quality of the materials makes a huge difference.
majikgator - Posted - 02/01/2010: 21:20:08
starting to appreciate my Goldtone CB-100 more, paid $400 but i got a great deal, $450 is more typical. but comparing it to a lot of pricier banjos at banjo camp lsat year it stood up fairly well, don't know about buying a more expaensive Goldtone though you might find a used Tradesman for $800, i would think long and hard before going to a fretless though it's a comittment and isn't conducive to some playing styles although that shine in some. Even a lot of online vendors will allow you to just eat shipping costs and return a banjo within a short time if they don't live up to your expectations and of course are undamaged, but playing one is sure THE only way price and even reputation aren't everything, i know a lot of people that swear by some very expensive instruments that i wouldn't walk across the street to play, in the end you are your own best judge given you have some playing experience. i would like to hear some other players on those Suilivans before judging from those two videos posted here. More makers should have pros demonstrate their banjos with sound clips found easily on their websites, Even had to do a little digging to find Kevin Enoch's, although it was well worth it to hear all the variations (setups, tunings, etc.) and styles(clawhammer, OT 2 & 3 finger) played superbly by Paul Brown. Zepp is very good about doing this for the banjos he sells and should be commended, just makes sense not to buy a pig in a poke. i absolutely agree with the quality of materials making a big difference and though poor materials are epidemic with Asian banjos, i wouldn't say every US made banjo is superior either.
brudford - Posted - 02/02/2010: 03:24:25
The fact that some banjos are assembled here in the USA means very little . They are still made in China ! I know alot of folks push the Goldtones here in the
350-400$ range . Maybe in past years they were a good bargin, not now , here is why . Consider how much less the American dollar is worth now . Anything built outside this country is going to be sold at an inflated price . Look at the hardware
of the China banjos , is it real nickle or good quality steel with a good nickle finish ? or just cheap pot metal with a silver paint ? Pacific Rim instruments will use inferior woods and use a heavy globbed finish to cover the poor woods . Save another 400.00$ and add it to your 400.00$ and buy the Reiter or Tradesman .
Edited by - brudford on 02/02/2010 11:11:57
Rizo - Posted - 02/02/2010: 05:02:47
quote:
The fact that some banjos are assembled her in the USA means very little . They are still made in China ! I know alot of folks push the Goldtones here in the
350-400$ range . Maybe in past years they were a good bargin, not now , here is why . Consider how much less the American dollar is worth now . Anything built outside this country is going to be sold at an inflated price . Look at the hardware
of the China banjos , is it real nickle or good quality steel with a good nickle finish ? or just cheap pot metal with a silver paint ? Pacific Rim instruments will use inferior woods and use a heavy globbed finish to cover the poor woods . Save another 400.00$ and add it to your 400.00$ and buy the Reiter or Tradesman .
This is an excellent point, I'd like to add that if you go used you get way more banjo for the money. A couple years ago I got a Tradesman for 650. Deals are out there if you look around. The Fielding Bantam in the classifieds is a great banjo and if I were in your shoes I'd have to think about real hard about it!
TLE - Posted - 02/02/2010: 12:34:38
quote:
Originally posted by troy_nov1965
dont forget the Sullivan jam series openbacks they are American made and are under 800 bucks
http://sullivanbanjo.com/sullivan/s...whammer.html
i would get one of them over a Gold Tone , i own a Gold Tone nuff said
Troy, that looks perfect, thanks.
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 02/02/2010: 15:10:00
If the Gold Tones are going for MORE than the older - better, Korean made banjos they used to have, I wouldn't even recommend the bottom of the line. In fact even when I understood them to be about the same price as a Good Time, I recommended the Good Time Every Time. THe Korean made Gold Tones had better workmanship and probably better materials than the Chinese stuff. I suspect the Chinese factories will eventually learn how to do it, after all the Japanese and the Koreans learned how over time, but the best you get with an Asian banjo is an intermediate quality instrument. I would be perfectly willing to play a Enoch Tradesman or a Ramsey Student on stage, or for recordings. They are in the 850 to 1000 range. I own a MM150 and there is no way I would even consider it an 800 dollar banjo. If the Chinese banjos really are worth that much right now I'll sell my MM150 for 600 and shipping - It is a better instrument at 3/4ths the price, with an improved tailpiece (Kershner) and a professional set-up - cardboard case and well packed. Worth a lot more than a new 800 dollar Chinese made Gold Tone.
llids - Posted - 02/02/2010: 18:27:16
I purchased an OME back in July 09. I love it. I concur with others, don't buy a cheapie entry level banjo, it will stifle your playing. Nothing sound better than a quality instrument, whether its a banjo, guitar or trumpet. If you are patient and watch the BHO classifieds, you will eventually find an instrument that suits you and your budget.
brudford - Posted - 02/03/2010: 06:08:27
Oldwoodchuck, I do not think the new Goldtones have raised their prices that much . I think it is nothing more than the weak American dollars exchange rate compared to the China dollar . Maybe the weak dollar may be a good thing for the manufacture of all products here in the USA and creating jobs for us ? Maybe just two years ago we could of recomended a Goldtone for a very entry level player, I would say then, these banjos were not a bad deal at all . However look at the middle Goldtone prices now 500.00-- 800.00 $ now your at the price point of Some Reiter's and Tradesman's . All American made with good quality componets. I called Enoch banjo company and guess who answered the phone ? Yes, Kevin the owner and talked to me for 10 minutes . Try that with your China banjo manufacturer .
Lets be honest, what in the heck do the Chinese now about building our American banjo for us ?
rjanecek - Posted - 02/03/2010: 06:38:09
Theres a very nice banjo by Brooks Masten in the classifieds for not much more than the 800 mark. I think 875, Id give that one a look. Brooks work is most excellent
Janet Deering - Posted - 02/03/2010: 07:08:01
You can get a brand new Goodtime Special Classic Openback at full retail for $919. It has our new patent pending tonering, planetary tuners, spikes installed so you can also play in the keys of A,B, and C.
It is made in the USA , right here at Deering in Spring Valley, CA. Dealers are free to give you a special price on it and I'm sure you can find a new one with our 6 year warranty for around $800.
Just visit our website at www.deeringbanjos.com
omiimii - Posted - 02/03/2010: 10:26:08
there is a really nice enoch tradesman in the classifieds for $825.
rpc - Posted - 02/03/2010: 15:58:49
Hi: Elderly music just got a Chanterelle model in for $1500; it might be worth it to take out a year or two loan to get something really worth having. I do understand your budget, but if you purchase a banjo that is well made and things don't work out, you'll have a much easier time selling a quality piece & it might just make you stick with it more. Best of Luck!
-Bob
specs - Posted - 02/03/2010: 16:12:17
quote:
Originally posted by brudford
Oldwoodchuck, I do not think the new Goldtones have raised their prices that much . I think it is nothing more than the weak American dollars exchange rate compared to the China dollar . Maybe the weak dollar may be a good thing for the manufacture of all products here in the USA and creating jobs for us ? Maybe just two years ago we could of recomended a Goldtone for a very entry level player, I would say then, these banjos were not a bad deal at all . However look at the middle Goldtone prices now 500.00-- 800.00 $ now your at the price point of Some Reiter's and Tradesman's . All American made with good quality componets. I called Enoch banjo company and guess who answered the phone ? Yes, Kevin the owner and talked to me for 10 minutes . Try that with your China banjo manufacturer .
Lets be honest, what in the heck do the Chinese now about building our American banjo for us ?
Your weak dollar argument holds up for most currencies but I don't think it does so for the yuan. Why? Because china does not allow the yuan to float freely and is pretty much still pegged to the dollar. So a weakening dollar doesn't affect chinese goods all that much. They revalued it in late '08 and since then there hasn't much change at all in the dollar vs yuan ratio: as you can see here: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=USD...n&z=m&q=l&c=This is why you don't see chinese goods getting more expensive here in the US even while the dollar goes down and goods from other countries that allow their currency to float gets more expensive. It is a good strategy for China, but spells economic doom for the US eventually as we continue to rack up debt and their products remain inexpensive which keeps the trade imbalance from correcting itself.
boondocker53 - Posted - 02/03/2010: 19:14:10
Bart Reiter is selling a slightly used Standard on eBay right now. Bid $800 on it, and who knows, you might win it!
I love my Reiter Round Peak.
omiimii - Posted - 02/03/2010: 20:06:40
quote:
Originally posted by boondocker53
Bart Reiter is selling a slightly used Standard on eBay right now. Bid $800 on it, and who knows, you might win it!
I love my Reiter Round Peak.
i think i would probably buy a bart reiter if i wasn't going the custom route. really nice banjos!
brudford - Posted - 02/03/2010: 20:29:12
http://good-times.webshots.com/albu...395692LXuTcf
Janet, I'am a fan of your Goodtimes infact I bought one a few years ago new for 478.00 $ it was a resonator which I later converted to a open back myself . You can few my work at the above sight . However I have to be honest with you about the Goodtime Special, even at the 800.00$ price you mentioned you really need to have a fingerboard on this banjo ,instead of just putting the frets into the neck . This is ok for Fender electric guitars but not for a banjo . I'am looking at Stew Macs 's catalog
and see a rosewood fingerboard for 11.60 $ . At the 800.00$ range your right in the ball park with the Reiter's and Tradesman's if you see my point . I also just stained
my Goodtimes neck . Also get rid of the metal rods and replace with a wooden dowel stick .Then even at 900.00$ you have a great banjo at a great price . Thankyou .
Edited by - brudford on 02/03/2010 20:37:21
Janet Deering - Posted - 02/08/2010: 07:09:05
Bruford, I understand your viewpoint and I'm glad you had fun making your banjo the way you want it. That is part of the fun of banjos, they are the hot rod of musical instruments.
Greg Deering was the banjo repairman at the American Dream guitar co-op in his college days and he had to repair many dowel post banjos because the wood warps and the dowel posts have to be re-set. He swore he would not make dowel post banjos when co-ordinator rods work so much better; especially because he wanted to offer a lifetime warranty.
We make about 5,000 Goodtime banjos a year and get maybe 6 necks back for any kind of warranty work. I think this speaks for itself on the reliability of the one piece neck.
On U-tube Linda and Robin Williams talked about Linda's Black Diamond Openback and part way through this video Linda discussed the difference in her old dowel post banjos to her Black Diamond with the co-ordinator rods....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlAL8y8O8do
Edited by - Janet Deering on 02/08/2010 07:20:38
swirlypillow - Posted - 02/08/2010: 07:49:36
Hit up Larry Hill who builds the HeliX banjo rim. He's got a line of fully built banjos as well, and I'm sure he'd be glad to help you out.
Edited by - swirlypillow on 02/08/2010 07:51:05
R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 02/08/2010: 10:30:27
I wouldn't shy away from a dowelstick model.
Many of the great modern makers; Ramsey, Enoch, Reiter,
Brooks, Romero, Bowlin, etc. use them. It's part of the old-time
aesthetic.......go to the trouble of reproducing the classic
look of a vintage banjo and then put a couple of chrome-
plated rods in it?
Maybe the rods have some advantages, but you've got to live with them.
Except for the RB-250 I got when I was 18, every one of my banjos has a
dowelstick. I have an 1881 Dobson, and yes, that dowel did have to be reset,
but it has been and now is as playable as a modern banjo, and it is 130 years old !!!
Worth the effort in my book ! One day my dowelstick banjos may (or may not) need work,
but it won't be in my lifetime, or even the three lifetimes after mine.
Janet, I am not trying to be contradictory. You guys do quality work.
I'd just hate to see TLE or anyone else pass up a great banjo because it doesn't have coordinator rods.
Edited by - R.D. Lunceford on 02/08/2010 10:32:43
Bill Rogers - Posted - 02/08/2010: 10:42:06
Martin guitars inevitably have to have their necks reset. Hasn't caused Martin to go to bolt-on necks as SOP.
omiimii - Posted - 02/08/2010: 11:20:38
quote:
Originally posted by R.D. Lunceford
I wouldn't shy away from a dowelstick model.
Many of the great modern makers; Ramsey, Enoch, Reiter,
Brooks, Romero, Bowlin, etc. use them. It's part of the old-time
aesthetic.......go to the trouble of reproducing the classic
look of a vintage banjo and then put a couple of chrome-
plated rods in it?
Maybe the rods have some advantages, but you've got to live with them.
Except for the RB-250 I got when I was 18, every one of my banjos has a
dowelstick. I have an 1881 Dobson, and yes, that dowel did have to be reset,
but it has been and now is as playable as a modern banjo, and it is 130 years old !!!
Worth the effort in my book ! One day my dowelstick banjos may (or may not) need work,
but it won't be in my lifetime, or even the three lifetimes after mine.
Janet, I am not trying to be contradictory. You guys do quality work.
I'd just hate to see TLE or anyone else pass up a great banjo because it doesn't have coordinator rods.
words of wisdom right here! something about cordinator rods has never struck me right. to me they just make the banjo look cold. i'm not only in love with the way banjos sound but really love to look at them too! they are beautiful objects and wooden dowel sticks really do it for me! p.s. r.d. i am having trouble emailing you back. i keep getting blocked and it won't allow me to submit the approval form again.
R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 02/08/2010: 23:48:13
Allan-
Tried to send you an e-mail but it bounced.
Try sending me an e-mail through the BHO.
Sorry folks......I apologize for the personal communication.
Helix - Posted - 02/09/2010: 04:32:30
Thank you for the very kind words.
When I see a post with a budget, I ask you to consider your specs, you have free trade and sailor's rights. I'll confer with you even if you don't buy a Helix.
www.helixbanjos.com
I start at $499 for a bamboo rim and neck, 18 brackets, same Helix type rim
Then $777 for a hardwood rim of Cherry, Maple, Walnut or Mahogany with a Maple neck. 24 brackets.
Then $1000 for more.
I play cargo banjo, up-picking, frailing, clawhammer and Scruggs. I use a longneck to be able to shift with who is singing at a jam. I play the banjos I build in THE New Phoenix Strugglers. I use an X, Y, Z continuum between the bridge and the 19th fret, there are lots of shades of gray.
When you open a discussion with a custom builder, then the 'sound' you are looking for can be better attained.
Remember the weight of a banjo with a honkin' tone ring. That's the used market, nothing spectacular or progressive. Same is safe.
I reimburse for overnight letters, refund shipping overage, I require a styrofoam shipping case for $50 with a 50% buy back offer, I have a return policy. Your banjo arrives ready to play and go get lost.
Here is a picture of you with your new Helix.
Edited by - Helix on 02/09/2010 04:35:38
arnie - Posted - 02/09/2010: 05:24:14
$800.00 will get you a quality Dobson style banjo from Bill Rickard. See his profile page - I play Old Joe Clark on one of them in a video. Page: 1 2
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