Richard Dress - Posted - 02/04/2010:  15:18:32

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"Murphy just made a post about this topic on her website at murphymethod.com. It's worth reading." -- Marty

Can't find it. Got better directions?

Kemo Sabe - Posted - 02/04/2010:  15:22:20

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Murphy's blog... (her Feb 4 posting) And thank you 'mebacon' for pointing us to her blog ..
blog.murphymethod.com/

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Edited by - Kemo Sabe on 02/04/2010 17:01:04

Richard Dress - Posted - 02/04/2010:  16:49:07

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Thanks.

5-stringreiny - Posted - 02/04/2010:  18:11:12

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thanks for the link to the blog! JR

blugrssmom - Posted - 02/04/2010:  22:49:48

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I agree with you Barb. The problem I see learning from tab is that you are limited in your playing ablitlies to jam and to really play the banjo. I think tab has it's place though and as long as a person uses tab to learn a tune that they already know in their head just to get a feel for how to play the tune, but then once they've gone over it a couple of times using thus tab put it away and play by ear, so that you learn to improvise and really play the banjo, not just play along to the written tab that someone else had decided is the right way to play a tune. Like I say my feelings are that tab has it's place to get a person over the hump on a tune that they've already heard and know the melody to, or for a person who reads music well so they know the timing etc. But other than to kind of learn how a tune goes then tab should be put away and the tune should be played forever after on your own using your own ears to put in your own interpretations and move forward. I've seen people who never get past tab and thus can never jam because unless a tune is called that they've memorized via tab they're dead in the water to be able to play along. Just my opinion and only my opinion.

pickingfive - Posted - 02/05/2010:  05:38:00

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It seems to me learning to play via the Murphy Henry "by ear" method is what was used by those thousands of wonderful banjo players that have come from the hills of Kentucky, Virginia, Tennessee, West Virginia, the Carolinas, Georgia, Alabama, etc. for many, many years. Murphy Henry made it possible for those of us who grew up in a family that did not have a picker to learn using the same method used by those clawhammer and three-finger pickers who learned how to play many years before there was electronic recording. You just can't argue with success!

Tam_Zeb - Posted - 02/05/2010:  09:56:24

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A few famous quotes worthy of reflection.

Quotation's from the documentry film High Lonesome - The Story of Bluegrass Music


Dr Ralph Stanley

"Legend played a big roll in our lives. Growing up we went to the ----? Baptist Church and they didn't have any instruments or anything so they done the singing without any music. I would just sit back and listen."


Bill Monroe.

"Well I used to hear them singing in churches you know, they'd had tenor singers you know and ladies they'd be singing alto. My brothers lay all the work to the singing school, in the church. But 'er there was no use me going cos I couldn't, I couldn't see the notes or anything you see and they couldn't learn me anything, So I just decided that I would learn my music by ear and always do it that way. "

Earl Scruggs

Quotation's from the documentry film Earl Scruggs his Family & Friends.. The Complete Earl Scruggs Story..

Earls brief interview on the movie.

Commentator - Do you read music ?

Earl "No I don't"

Commentator - How can you, - how do you develope something as complicated , I mean without?

Earl "Well I started playing like when I was five years old 'er and 'er I've well, pretty well lived and breathed banjo, all the way. So 'er a lot of it, well most of it is self taught you might say.

Food for thought.

minstrelmike - Posted - 02/05/2010:  10:27:20

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Tab does not limit you. That's like saying what you read with your eyes limits what you say with your mouth.

People limit themselves with tab or with teachers or with dvd lessons or people use them to learn stuff which makes it easier to -play-

Again, it is the person learning that has to decide how to use the method. The method is limited by the people's imagination. If you believe tab limits you, then it does. But pay attention and you'll hear others say, "But Murphy says this so therefore that's all I can do."

mebacon - Posted - 02/05/2010:  11:40:02

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As is so often the case, what Mike Moxcey is saying is important. I'm sure that with so many other things in life, it isn't the tool that is the help or the hindrance, it is how you use it. Over and over, I have read him saying, to play through the chords of songs with which you are familiar. This is certainly very important ear training. I have seen folks who can play a lot of songs as long as you stick the tab in front of them and I'm sure that is just over reliance on the tool, given how bluegrass music is played. My personal theory, since the MM works for me, is that you are using your brain in much the same way you learned your first language and so what she teaches really sticks with you. She also does teach you to improvise and then you do have to fly out of the nest and not just copy her by wrote memory.

MEB

Tam_Zeb - Posted - 02/05/2010:  12:32:31

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quote:

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Originally posted by minstrelmike

But pay attention and you'll hear others say, "But Murphy says this so therefore that's all I can do."

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Mike

I don't see anyone making any such statement. I certainly don't and I think it is rather irresponsible of you to come out with such an inflamatory comment.

What I have said countless times is that personally I struggled to learn from TAB in the beginning. I switch to the Murphy Method for eight months and learned the fundimentals from Murphy's Beginning Banjo Vol 1 & 2 I then went back to learning TAB and got a better understanding by relating what I was hearing from what I was reading.

I think that Murphy is an excellent teacher she helped me overcome a great difficulty and I have no hesitation in recommending her Method to anyone starting out.

If I had gone with Pete Wernick, Geoff Hohwald or Bill Evans at the start I would equally be singing their praises right now because they all believe it is important to have an ear for music. Just for the record I think these guys are all fantastic teachers.

I'm not boxed into one teacher or method for that matter. I have an open mind ( My minds my own) and now that I have some mileage under my belt I am exploring all the other methods but I am only able to do so because Murphy unlocked the door to enable me to explore.

I think you will find that we Murphyites are a dedicated bunch of people who have gained much from Murphy's teachings. If we did not we would not be speaking out in her support.

Look through the archives and see how many people have learned something from the Murphy Method. No other teacher on this forum receives more positive comments than Murphy and that's fact and no exaggeration. But that's not to say that other teachers are not worthy of praise.

I have asked countless times for folks to comment on other teachers DVDs and I have been lucky if I got a handful of responses. I know there are many other fantastic teachers out there who have produced great instructional material.

If you have never tried the Murphy Method how can you possibly comment on how we Murphyites think. Perhaps if you didn't come out with such ridiculous comments we might start taking your advice more seriously.


Tam

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Edited by - Tam_Zeb on 02/05/2010 12:34:49

FatManMary - Posted - 02/05/2010:  13:25:33

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I tried the Murphy thing didn't work for me. I never really thought it was learning by ear either. Just instead of me reading the song (tab) someone was reading it for me (murphy) Just wasn't for me. I got a teacher and have now been actually playing 6 months and I never thought I'd know this much stuff in 6 months. Just different strokes I guess.

InRecovery - Posted - 02/06/2010:  21:49:20

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No such thing as a cookie cutter formula for all people. Some visually oriented -- thus tab and musical sheets Others by ear -- thus purely hear it and pick it. Others like me by combination.

I have Murphy videos, Janet Davis videos + tabs and instruction materials from several others. Had some private lessons, too. Murphy Method certainly works, but I supplemented with other training media. It's not a big deal -- pick whatever works for you, just keep pickin'

IR

Horseshoot - Posted - 02/15/2010:  14:36:06

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Now that I have actually been playing for a bit over a month, and using the Murphy Method, I will comment again. I feel like the Murphy Method is a good way to learn. It is not, however, without it's flaws. One frustration I have with the DVDs is how she goes from really really slow, to quite fast, with no playing in between. And as you know, the rhythm is often difficult to learn, if you cannot keep up with the fast playing (What she calls "slow with guitar"). So I have found myself looking at tab, and learning the rhythm like that. Which I guess is good, as my teacher really wants me learning by ear and by tab. When Murphy plays "Cripple Creek", for example, really slow (and even as a beginner, it is soon too slow) it sounds totally different, rhythm wise, than when she plays it "slow with guitar" which I am not fast enough for yet. So, I find that very frustrating. Michael

mebacon - Posted - 02/15/2010:  18:35:38

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There are other places you can find Murphy playing slower versions of those tunes. I think her lessons kind of evolved over time and she "fixed" some of your issues in later DVD's. You would probably find her Vamping DVD and Slow Jam DVD very, very helpful because these tunes are there, often slower and you get to "play" with other people. You are probably going to find Cumberland Gap to be harder but you'll get it and before doing John Hardy, you might want to consider the Misfits DVD which has some very similar familiar tunes. John Hardy is a lot harder rhythmically speaking. I know that is a lot of DVD's to get but you will use them for more than a year. This is probably going to flip some people out but I also play the sound through a small Roland Cube Street amplifier. The expense (about $180) was worth it to me because it produces very hi fidelity sound rather than my little computer speakers.

Horseshoot - Posted - 02/15/2010:  19:23:32

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Thanks for the advice! I'll check out those DVDs. Michael

Brian T - Posted - 02/15/2010:  22:11:19

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My plan is to enjoy the journey learning to try to play some Scruggs style banjo.
I'm so happy that I don't care how anybody predetermines how I MUST learn to do that.
After more than 11 years as a university student and 35 years on the other side of the desk in university classrooms, I know what works and what doesn't, whether you believe it or not.
People's heads are not wired the same. That, you'd better pay heed to.
The Murphy Method is a joy to some, a puzzle to others, and I don't care two hoots either way.

You want opinion? Try three methods of learning
1. book
2. sound
3. visual
These are the three categories of learners. You will be one of them. I think that the MM learners are more surprised than all the others as they have found something which works the way their heads are wired (blame Mom & Dad for that). They need to say so.

At the end of my day, who cares? Not the least bit important. That we all move on, happy in our endeavours. . . what else can matter?

SJL - Posted - 02/16/2010:  02:51:06

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quote:

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Originally posted by Brian T

My plan is to enjoy the journey learning to try to play some Scruggs style banjo.
I'm so happy that I don't care how anybody predetermines how I MUST learn to do that.
After more than 11 years as a university student and 35 years on the other side of the desk in university classrooms, I know what works and what doesn't, whether you believe it or not.
People's heads are not wired the same. That, you'd better pay heed to.
The Murphy Method is a joy to some, a puzzle to others, and I don't care two hoots either way.

You want opinion? Try three methods of learning
1. book
2. sound
3. visual
These are the three categories of learners. You will be one of them. I think that the MM learners are more surprised than all the others as they have found something which works the way their heads are wired (blame Mom & Dad for that). They need to say so.

At the end of my day, who cares? Not the least bit important. That we all move on, happy in our endeavours. . . what else can matter?

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Very well said Brian.

mebacon - Posted - 02/16/2010:  02:54:48

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The banjo is a wonderful instrument and a joy to play. However you learn to play it, if your happy with the process, that is wonderful.

Wayne in NJ - Posted - 02/16/2010:  06:50:45

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A) (NOTE: I've learned banjo initially via MM, and, as this post will show, still use it, as well as learning a number of tunes via TAB)

B) As mentioned repeatedly, (which is a good way to learn), everyone needs to find what works for them, and let me add to the call for not bashing someone else' manner of learning. Some do better with methods that are written (TAB) others visual/audio(?), such as MM. Some who are legends in their own mind (specifically ME!) are able to wrestle (HOPEFULLY) appropriate sounds from the banjo via both methods.

I think it's an incorrect assertion that MM is simply Murphy, (or Casey) simply TELLING you what the TAB would SHOW you. I base this on my recent experience with RE-learning "Man of Constant Sorrow" (in D).

1) I THOUGHT I had the correct licks/fingering down, as i had gone through the DVD about 4 years ago. I could, by myself play what I THOUGHT was the song. Then I tried to play with my bro singing/on guitar and couldn't get 'my' (per)version to fit!

2) I broke out the DVD and started from scratch, polished my 'licks' and got them in order

-BUT- (and as that great philosopher Pee Wee Hermann once said: "Everyone I know's has a big 'BUT'"...)

3) upon playing along with them on the DVD, found, though I now had the correct fingerings, my timing/etc. was STILL off.

4) I began to listen to their playing to get mine in line.

Again, I ALSO use TAB, but can see the advantage of having someone play correctly what I'm learning and that it's not just a string of notes/licks.
(I suppose, if you have the recording of a song for which you also have the specific TAB, you could do the same thing, except for the slower version, or does that 'slo-down' program(?) I've been reading about also do that?)

Play nice! (That's someone else's signature, isn't it)?

Richard Dress - Posted - 02/16/2010:  07:19:37

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"I think it's an incorrect assertion that MM is simply Murphy, (or Casey) simply TELLING you what the TAB would SHOW you." -- Wayne

Interesting observation. Please explain what else it tells you.

Wayne in NJ - Posted - 02/16/2010:  08:24:53

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Dress

"I think it's an incorrect assertion that MM is simply Murphy, (or Casey) simply TELLING you what the TAB would SHOW you." -- Wayne

Interesting observation. Please explain what else it tells you.

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Re-read my post! :^)

BadTaco - Posted - 02/16/2010:  21:58:59

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Okay, so I got Beginning Banjo Vol 2 and Easy songs for Banjo.

I like them. For me, it works great. For some, it may not.

Yadda, yadda...

...but WOW, can somebody tell me what that song is that plays when you're on the title screens!?!? That minor thing? THAT is cool!

calico - Posted - 02/17/2010:  02:37:31

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murphys fine, tabs fine best of all though is live sessions but you do whatever suits you ,Maybe a combination of em all

maplebridge48 - Posted - 02/17/2010:  02:48:02

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quote:

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Originally posted by BadTaco



...but WOW, can somebody tell me what that song is that plays when you're on the title screens!?!? That minor thing? THAT is cool!

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Thanks for the mention, because we like that tune a lot. That theme tune is a number Murphy wrote called "Hazel Creek". She teaches it on our "Rawhide and Other Banjo Favorites" DVD.


Regards,

Red Henry

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Edited by - maplebridge48 on 02/17/2010 03:03:39

mebacon - Posted - 02/17/2010:  04:57:52

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Isn't Hazel Creek a great song. Murphy wrote it.

Marty

quote:

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Originally posted by BadTaco

Okay, so I got Beginning Banjo Vol 2 and Easy songs for Banjo.

I like them. For me, it works great. For some, it may not.

Yadda, yadda...

...but WOW, can somebody tell me what that song is that plays when you're on the title screens!?!? That minor thing? THAT is cool!

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Hotrodtruck - Posted - 02/17/2010:  07:59:07

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Some people can be successful using tab, and some can't. If a person cannot learn from tab, they should not knock those who can. That is simply rationalizing a personal inability.

The idea that one can never become a good banjo player by using tab is ridiculous. There are pros that can, and pros that can't. Developing into a good player depends more upon desire and hard work than on the way a person learned.

I guess I am one of the more fortunate ones (from reading this thread) because I can learn by any method. I use tab, people show me things, and I figure out things from recordings. Heck, I even learned to read music- not that it helps my banjo picking much, but it occasionally comes in handy.

Bottom line: Be suspicious of anyone who tells you NOT to learn by ANY method. Use what methods you can, and what you want to use. Others may limit themselves, but don't let them limit you.

mebacon - Posted - 02/17/2010:  19:26:12

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I don't think anyone is knocking someone who can learn from tab. For me the MM really works and I am sure there are many learning styles. My general view is that I learned to speak before I learned to read and I am probably using the same learning centers in my brain to learn the language of banjo and I think that is why it has been so efficient and useful to me. I do rarely (and yes Murphy knows) use tab because I have another teacher who uses tab but the MM is far more efficient for my learning.

Marty

Tam_Zeb - Posted - 02/17/2010:  23:34:53

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quote:

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Originally posted by mebacon

I don't think anyone is knocking someone who can learn from tab. For me the MM really works and I am sure there are many learning styles. My general view is that I learned to speak before I learned to read and I am probably using the same learning centers in my brain to learn the language of banjo and I think that is why it has been so efficient and useful to me. I do rarely (and yes Murphy knows) use tab because I have another teacher who uses tab but the MM is far more efficient for my learning.

Marty

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Hi Marty


I am with you on this, I don't knock anyone for using TAB in fact after my initial problems of trying get my head round TAB I gave up and worked solely with the MM for eight months before I went back to TAB, it was at that point that everything fell into place with TAB. I put this down to what I learned from Murphy in her Beginner Vol 1 & 2.

The TAB VS the MM seems to go on and on and there are times when I get the feeling from reading the posts of certain individuals that those people are knocking the MM although no one will come right out and say so.

All in all I think Muphy comes out tops because each time this debate comes round the Murphyites come out and and defend her corner and she gets more converts as a result.

I say this to those handful of people who oppose the Murphy Method, bring it on guys Murphy wins hands down every time and there is nothing you can say that will change this. The Murphy Method is currently one of the best self teaching tools available for the beginner and the sooner you come to accept that fact the sooner this stupid TAB vs MM debate will end that's assuming you want it to end.

Rest assured I will always be here to express MY views on the MM.

Tam

KidfromDeliverance - Posted - 02/18/2010:  11:27:29

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quote:

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I say this to those handful of people who oppose the Murphy Method, bring it on guys Murphy wins hands down every time and there is nothing you can say that will change this. The Murphy Method is currently one of the best self teaching tools available for the beginner and the sooner you come to accept that fact the sooner this stupid TAB vs MM debate will end that's assuming you want it to end

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I think this is what the original poster meant about "hype."

mebacon - Posted - 02/18/2010:  15:42:23

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It does seem a tad overenthusiastic, but I think he means well. And the MM is a very good way to learn how to play the banjo, just not the only way. It is fun to see Murphy around other great banjo players who do use tab like Tony Trischka. They have a lot of fun give and take. I would hope we could do the same. As in most things in life, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Every days a great day I can play or even hear banjo music.

Marty

KidfromDeliverance - Posted - 02/18/2010:  17:28:19

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quote:

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It does seem a tad overenthusiastic, but I think he means well.

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Sorry, but I don't think he means well. It's downright contemptuous (or just flame-bait). I don't think anyone's actually against the "MM" - it's more that some (like me) are naturally resistant to gush. As I've noted before, in other threads on this eternal topic, it seems to me that the "method" isn't really learning as much as it is memorizing by ear, and as such, not quite the dramatic, tab-vanquishing innovation some try to make it out to be.

mebacon - Posted - 02/18/2010:  18:20:07

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There certainly is an element of "memorizing" by ear. As I have said before, that is likely how most people learned their first language. Many people have the experience that learning a second language is harder, I think because we use tools that we learned later in life (i.e., reading and writing). Having worked pretty hard with the MM over the past year, I think it is more systematic than you suggest. It is just less evident if you only look at Volume 1. She has systematic methods to teach you to hear chord changes, how to play back up, how to improvise. I am very new to the banjo, but I have been able to play tunes with which I am familiar using her techniques without memorizing the tune from one of her DVD's. With patience, hard work, and determination just about any learning method will probably work. The MM is straightforward and logical and I would guess would work for lots of people. I don't think that means other ways won't work. I recently met a professional Bluegrass guitar player who told me that he had learned rhythm guitar using the MM. Casey Henry certainly is an accomplished musician and definitely learned by the MM. Folks should probably try and probably use more than one way to learn and decide for themselves what works for them. As I have said before, I have had many extraordinary teachers in my lifetime. I have found Murphy Henry to be one of the finest I have ever had. I'm pretty sure without her approach to learning to play the banjo, I would have departed this life without the great pleasure I have received from learning to play this beautiful instrument (not to mention getting to be the brunt of many corny jokes).

Marty

Hotrodtruck - Posted - 02/18/2010:  20:06:13

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I think anyone that likes Murphy would love someone like Jim Mills, Pete Wernick, Tony Trishka, etc., where you get the video and tab both. That is the best of both worlds. Why limit yourself?

maplebridge48 - Posted - 02/19/2010:  03:24:25

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Thanks to all the folks who have contributed thoughtful responses to this thread. While we're here, I'd to drop a note saying "Thank you" to the large number of MM students who have already responded to our new "5-DVD Superpack" telephone-only sale. Details are on our site, and I'll be here answering our 800 number myself most of today. The sale ends on the 28th!

Red Henry
murphymethod.com

Wayne in NJ - Posted - 02/19/2010:  16:49:45

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quote:

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Originally posted by Hotrodtruck

I think anyone that likes Murphy would love someone like Jim Mills, Pete Wernick, Tony Trishka, etc., where you get the video and tab both. That is the best of both worlds. Why limit yourself?

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As I'm sure many have mentioned, some folks just flat out struggle with TAB.
(NOTE: I began with MM, have taken lessons with Tony Trischka, and use TAB).

Sourdough Pickens - Posted - 02/20/2010:  06:28:55

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tam_Zeb



I say this to those handful of people who oppose the Murphy Method, bring it on guys Murphy wins hands down every time and there is nothing you can say that will change this.
Tam

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LOL...straight out of the Jr Hi playbook.....all this posturing and talk about converts et al....put away the spiked battle banjos and switch picks... Personal preferences are just that....there is no effective argument either way..

lukedunlap - Posted - 03/07/2010:  12:38:05

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All I can say is that I am in the 'advanced beginner' category. I started out playing on Geoff Howard's books and a few other "bajo for morons" types of books. I spent a year and a half and couldn't play with other people and couldn't make the tab songs I had sound right. I have spent the last 6 months on the Murphy Method - and have far surpassed my abilities after a year and a half. I can't say how things will be as I go into more advanced things - but I can say that I can play and vamp about a dozen songs with others.

Playing with others is the "high" for me - so I give it an A+

Sally Goodin - Posted - 08/11/2010:  15:58:56

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There is more than one path to enlightenment, but mine has definitely been TMM and my personal relationship with Murphy who teaches me banjo, improvising, jamming, and gigging. My husband takes bass lessons from her; he used to joke that he could only play the radio. You should hear him now! Wish some of you folks could actually know her - she is down to earth, intelligent, and FUN to be with. When she isn't getting on me about resisting improvising, we are laughing about something!

prewartb3 - Posted - 08/11/2010:  17:51:38

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When I was a kid I wish Murphy Method was around. It would have save me the endless hours with my finger on a 45 slowing it down. I remember my mother yelling at me to cut it out. Oh the fun years.

dflowers - Posted - 08/13/2010:  06:11:55

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Just a word of thanks to all who contribute to BHO. I am learning so much wisdom from you guys and gals. Your years of experience have made the road I am traveling down a lot easier to travel. Playing now for about a year. In another year or two, I might, and I say might, be about to play coherently. I do enjoy every second that I spend playing, believe me. Thanks again, Don

torpedo - Posted - 08/13/2010:  09:11:22

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The Murphy Method has to be good, just look around and see how many instructors have copied her method. Joe

KidfromDeliverance - Posted - 08/13/2010:  09:28:59

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quote:

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Originally posted by torpedo

The Murphy Method has to be good, just look around and see how many instructors have copied her method. Joe

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You mean, where an instructor is videotaped explaining what notes to play, demonstrating it on the instrument, then explaining what notes to play next? She must get a lot in royalties!