bandzo - Posted - 01/28/2010:  03:15:32

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Many nice people have recommended me (and to hundreds of others) the "murphy method".
I am looking at her sample video and all I see is this nice lady telling me, note by note, how to play a song. Sure, for really simple songs this probably works fine. For more complicated stuff this is probably total PITA (if there is no tab). I do not understand why is this "play-stop-rewind-stop" method so hyped up. Especially if you have to sit in front of the PC (+mouse and keyboard) or TV (+remote control) when you practice.

Earls 5 - Posted - 01/28/2010:  03:34:12

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it helps you get the fundamentals & lots of Scruggs licks too. Then you build on that foundation.

Tcross - Posted - 01/28/2010:  03:47:56

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If you have troubles reading tabs and learning, this is an outstanding way to learn to play. I think it is a great way to quickly learn the basic stuff.

Bizdoc - Posted - 01/28/2010:  04:08:28

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Tab is a crutch. once a song is learned by Tab it is difficult to tear yourself away from the tab. But learning from the MM videos, you learn by ear and muscle memory. It's also like having an instructor, Murphy tells you things you cannot get from reading tab alone, and you can see how a lick is done, tab has no bounce or rhythm, but the DVDs bring all that togeather. If you have a banjo teacher close by, that's probably the best way, but otherwise rather than rely on tabs, lessons from Murphy or another highly regarded dvd instructor is better than sitting alone with a silent tab. I'm forced to learn to remember from the dvd's, but from tab it's too easy to just keep looking at the tab and never really memorizing the song.

Shodon - Posted - 01/28/2010:  04:12:16

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I have instructional videos from several folks including Janet Davis, Murphy and others. Murphy stresses she is trying to train you to play be ear as you learn the basis. Ultimately everyone has to practice and listen to learn. Just my opinion.

Brooklynbanjoboy - Posted - 01/28/2010:  04:16:36

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Murphy is very careful and deliberate in structuring her first lessons in a fashion that builds incrementally on fundamental Scruggs rolls, gradually broadening the inventory of basic roll techniques and patterns to include progressively more difficult skills.

It does seem as though she’s teaching tunes, one at a time, but she articulates the core skills needed for the right and the left hand up front in the first DVDs, and articulates so clearly the many basic elements built into the first tunes she teaches that tougher tunes become easier to tackle once you grab the most rudimentary skills. After a while, licks and repeating patterns become recognizable idioms. Murphy really teaches the first grammar lessons necessary to speak Bluegrass fluently.

Watching her patiently, something that did not necessarily come easy to me, eventually made it easier to learn from TABs; I was able to pick out the basic patterns and decipher tunes by deconstructing them. And coming from clawhammer to BG, I've preferred learning a tune by listening and watching rather than following the map TAB provides, though I do not avoid TAB; I use it as I might a roadmap, to try and find my way out of a particularly confusing cluster of streets, so to speak.

I found the VHS videos harder to learn from than the DVDs, if only because of the distracting need to rewind, etc.

And, being a New Yorker, I just love her melodic voice and the way English sounds in her hands.

I'd recommend letting her guide you through these first tunes, note for note. Banjo playing gets easier after that.

Lew

maplebridge48 - Posted - 01/28/2010:  04:18:01

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As Pete Wernick said in a Banjo Newsletter interview, since you have to get away from tab eventually, it's better if you don't use it to start with. Then, how to learn by ear? The old way was to slow an LP record down to half-speed and try to pick up the notes. This was worth it, but it took plenty of time and effort.

In contrast to that, Murphy groups the notes into licks and shows them to you one at a time all the way through, even for extremely complex tunes. She hands you the music on a platter. Banjo hero Andy Boarman once said that "If you can't learn banjo from Murphy's tape, you might as well give up the gol-durn banjo!"

Red




PS-- And our DVDs are guaranteed to teach you. If you put in the effort to learn from one but can't, just send it back to us for a refund. But nobody's ever done that so far.

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Edited by - maplebridge48 on 01/28/2010 04:23:10

Goldstarman - Posted - 01/28/2010:  04:22:09

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might want to give it a try before downing it. Ive been palying for 23 years and learned from the Murphy Method and for a scruggs foundation it doesnt get any better

SJL - Posted - 01/28/2010:  04:48:39

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I think it really has a lot to do with your previous music experience. I had none when I first started to try to learn the banjo about twenty years ago. I tried a few tab books, but couldn't figure it out. I had nobody around here to learn from. My uncle in the States recommended The Murphy Method, which was on cassette at the time. I was playing music within a few days. As others have said, she teaches incrementally, so ever song builds on things that you have learned earlier. It is truly a Method, and a very good one. I have since learned a lot more about things like tab, recognizing licks etc., but I can guarantee that I would have given up in frustration if I had not found "The Murphy Method".

eagleisland - Posted - 01/28/2010:  04:53:45

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bizdoc

Tab is a crutch. once a song is learned by Tab it is difficult to tear yourself away from the tab.

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I'm not here to offer an opinion one way or t'other regarding the Murphy Method, but I WILL say that tab is a crutch only if you let it be one.

Tab is a road map. You still have to drive the car. If you drive the car with your eyes glued to the map, bad things are gonna happen.

Tab is a terrific tool for learning new material. One must be sufficiently self-disciplined to actually LEARN THE SONG.

the-fish - Posted - 01/28/2010:  04:56:32

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quote:

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all I see is this nice lady

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she does seem like a very nice lady! smiles a lot too! Ive been meaning to get a copy on dvd, I had a VHS once but wasnt a good mix for me

captruss - Posted - 01/28/2010:  05:46:52

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As a beginner I am using many different venues, mainly Murphy and the Banjo Academy. 25 years ago I used Murphy's cassettes but I put the Banjo down and then had it stolen. Picking it back up after 25 years I've fallen in love with the Murphy Method all over again.. I learned Banjo in the Hollow in two days and a simple Cripple Creek Version in a week. Cumberland Gap I can do slow. If I could ever get the closed D shape down I intend to go to Banjo for Misfits. For beginners, her method is effective for me. Depends on how your brain is wired I think.

Thank you Murphy and Glenn and Minstrel Mike for the pleasure I have already gotten from your efforts.

maplebridge48 - Posted - 01/28/2010:  06:06:34

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After 'Banjo in the Hollow' and "Cripple Creek', you're ready for the "Banjo for Misfits" DVD. Murphy designed it to be entered at that point.

Red

AndyM - Posted - 01/28/2010:  06:08:42

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When I started there was no Murphy Method. Wish there had been, I would've certainly used it.

BanjoFlyboy - Posted - 01/28/2010:  06:17:57

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I think it comes down to the method you started with and are accustomed to. I started with tab, and I treat it as a way to get started on a song. For me, watching other people play the song is just as important as tab. Once I've learned the song, the tab goes into storage and usually is not looked at again. It is more interesting to apply my own variations to the song than to go strictly by tab. I was 58 years old when I started with tab 3 and a half years ago. If I had started with the Murphy Method I am not sure if I would have been able to learn as many songs as I have, but I might have a better grasp of fundamentals and technique. To be honest, I couldn't demonstrate to you the difference between a forward roll and a backward roll, but undoubtidly I incorporate most all of the rolls into the songs I have learned. As they say, "different strokes for different folks."

Ukeridge - Posted - 01/28/2010:  06:24:45

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Is it at all true that the Murphy Method is great for people that are new to music as well as to the banjo? It seems to me that no matter how you learn your first 10 or so songs, after a year or so you'll have the scruggsian fundamentals to build with.

Baglady - Posted - 01/28/2010:  06:25:12

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It has been my experiences with the banjo and in life, being negative or closed-minded will get you nowhere real fast.

richmondgeorge - Posted - 01/28/2010:  06:27:11

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All I can say is it is working for me...Thanks Murphy!!

Pedal - Posted - 01/28/2010:  06:40:00

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As an old Tenor player, I thought the Murphy Method was some lazy short cut to memorize some songs and 'pretend' your playing. I was flat out WRONG. There are some advantages to her instructions. While there is truth about Training your Ear, this method is teaching you licks and foundational materiel that any form of teaching would teach. I checked out several other video lessons and quickly learned they all jump in a teach you to play a song. And remembering back to when I first picked up a Tenor with an instructor - same thing, this is how you hold it and lets make some noise.
True the Murphy Method does not use TAB. But it is a strong and interesting way to learn. I am sort of embarrassed not to have used the method sooner. And as I remind myself playing TAB is not exactly playing sheet music. Regardless this method appears to have a proven track record. So let's have fun and make some noise. I just want to scrub up enough money to buy some more.

Dick Hauser - Posted - 01/28/2010:  07:02:55

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For me, tabulature works as well as having someone tell me which fingers/strings to use. To hear the tune, I listen to a recording of the original artists. "The Amazing Slow Downer Software" lets me play tunes at any speed.

Having an instructor in front of me doing what she does would be fine. I still like having the tabulature though. I cannot memorize a tune in a 30 minute lesson.

steve davis - Posted - 01/28/2010:  07:08:22

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There are different ways that help people figure this thing out.
The Murphy Method has helped a lot of people.So has tab.So has personal instruction.

People absorb information differently.
Some folks are very quick to put something down if it's not the way they do it.
That's pretty close-minded.

chief3 - Posted - 01/28/2010:  07:48:45

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There is no best learning method because individuals learn in different ways. Learners need to know if a particular teaching method suits their learning style. Maybe they need a teacher, maybe they need to figure it out themselves, maybe they need a detailed course of study or maybe something else. Teachers develop learning methods that, in their experience, best work for them or best suit a wide variety of learning styles. The most productive way to learn is by following a complete method that suits your learning style and the least productive way to learn is by following no method at all whether you have developed it youself or got it from someone else.

5stringpicker2 - Posted - 01/28/2010:  08:09:25

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It's a Monkey see Monkey do thing. you see it you do it. Believe it or not, it does work. I've down loaded videos of others playing a song where you can see their fingerings real clear and in a matter of time i'm able to get the song down and with a bit o practice learn to play it.

I am working on a few of Jason Skinners( Renopicker) Tunes he has on youtube and have several down and playing.

Not all systems are for everybody try a few and decide what works for you. I'm a TAB and EAR man myself but the visual thing works for me to.

(I )===='---<::)

Rich Weill - Posted - 01/28/2010:  08:22:56

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A few years ago, I started a thread attempting to collect experiences with the Murphy Method: banjohangout.org/archive/94819 I did so because, having tried it for a while, I had very mixed feelings. I thought Murphy had a unique ability to break a song down into its easily understood parts, communicate how to play those segments, and do so in a way that allowed you to learn the song very quickly and, as importantly, remember it. But I didn't think I was learning much beyond how to play those particular songs.

My question to anyone who has used the Murphy Method long term (which I didn't) remains the same: Based on what you learned there, are you now able to hear a new song a sufficient number of times, pick up your banjo, and play it? Or are you only able to play the songs on her DVDs?

This is a question, not a judgment. Murphy teaches a lot of songs. Learning the songs she teaches likely is of great satisfaction for a lot of banjo players. I respect that. And I doubt that many people can teach those songs as clearly and in as user-friendly a way as Murphy. And I know that she builds on licks she's taught previously in a well-planned, systematic course of instruction.

But my question remains: How well does the Murphy Method work when you're trying to learn a song on your own, without Murphy's help?

vega long neck - Posted - 01/28/2010:  08:35:26

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Learning by ear (Murphy) you get timing and a sense of emphasis from the get-go. Tab shows you timing and any emphasis. If you don't already know the tune pretty well you can learn all the notes correctly and still be way out of "emotional sync" by just relying on tab.

Cathy Fink uses a similar method in Old Time. She actually has you start learning a tune by humming it until you can "play" it in your head, at speed, easily. When that's done she moves into the song phrase by phrase. Another great way to learn. I use my time in a car to learn the correct phrasing and emphasis of a tune. The hundreds of run throughs in the car spare my family a lot of unplesantness!

These are all good methods, so is sheet music, for that matter.

Banjophobic - Posted - 01/28/2010:  08:42:19

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I dont think its "hyped" at all. If you have a large following of folks who use your methods and it works for them, then you must be doing something right. There's always more than one way to learn to play. Each person chooses the path that works for them. Why are poeple so 'Hyped" about a particular brand of banjo? Becouse it appeals to them and suits them.
Some of the best players on Earth learned to play without the benefit of TAB. Is TAB a bad thing, heck no, it a valuable asset to some people. So why shouldnt there me methods that expouse ear, instead of TAB? Not everything revolves around TAB, in the banjo world, believe it or not .-

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Edited by - Banjophobic on 01/28/2010 08:43:44

hicotton - Posted - 01/28/2010:  08:53:57

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Hi Rich;
I'll answer your question - I started playing banjo 6 years ago with a teacher using tab. It didn't work for me because, although I could read & follow tab, it didn't help with timing or tone.
So, I tried the MM - started with the Beginning Banjo Vol. 1 and moved on from there. I used MM to learn my first 10-12 songs and as noted here, she builds from a basic Scruggs foundation, adding licks and techniques as you move along. From the tapes/dvds, I moved to taking lessons from Casey - same technique on more advanced songs.
I'm to the point now where I hear these licks, runs, and phrases in new songs and with practice can usually put new songs together reasonably well. I can also do very basic improvision on new songs in jams.
thanks, clay

bandzo - Posted - 01/28/2010:  09:32:05

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Rich Weill, that was my next question. :)

Banjophobic, I do not think that tablature is the only way. I personally have hard time following "video only" lessons. I usually end up writing it down and go from there. Vido+Tab is my personal preference because I have no access to teacher with a heart beat.
I used word "hype" because I have noticed it getting recommended all the time, regardless what the question is. :)

Jody Hughes - Posted - 01/28/2010:  09:35:34

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I think the Murphy Method is a great tool for people to learn that don't want to use TAB.
I don't have any experience with the Banjo videos, yet it's obviously worked for A LOT of people.
My friend had the fiddle series by Jim Wood and It was quite good.

However, I will say I don't think it's really "learning by ear"....it's more learning by watching someone play. This does make for a good approach given the nature of scruggs style banjo playing.

It's EXTREMELY difficult to teach someone an Earl Scruggs tune that doesn't even know what a forward roll, "tag" roll...or worse what's a slide and how do you do it? This is why they are mostly SHOWING you how to do it.
Most elementary banjo rolls, licks, etc you can't really hum.

Banjophobic - Posted - 01/28/2010:  09:57:33

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quote:

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Originally posted by bandzo

Rich Weill, that was my next question. :)

Banjophobic, I do not think that tablature is the only way. I personally have hard time following "video only" lessons. I usually end up writing it down and go from there. Vido+Tab is my personal preference because I have no access to teacher with a heart beat.
I used word "hype" because I have noticed it getting recommended all the time, regardless what the question is. :)

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Sure I know what you mean. Thats why its great to have all these choices in lessons. find what works for you. I also teach via Skype, as does many other teachers here on the Hangout. If you cant find a live teacher, or one with a heartbeat,, you should consider Skype lessons via webcams. Its the next best thing to live. Ive had great sucess with it the past couple years.

rstieg - Posted - 01/28/2010:  10:36:19

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rich Weill


But my question remains: How well does the Murphy Method work when you're trying to learn a song on your own, without Murphy's help?

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When I was starting I used a variety of material to learn: Janet Davis' beginners book, Murphy Henry tapes, other books and tabs from various sources. I also had an excellent teacher, Bill Evans, though I only took 6-7 lessons from him and mostly learned on my own after that. Years later I learned to improvise and to write my own arrangements, largely because I had learned the foundational licks and rolls from those materials, including Murphy's tapes. And even though I would always tab out Murphy's arrangements, I found her tapes to be very helpful in many respects.

So, I wouldn't say that it's necessarily true that someone could develop the ability to improvise for a new song in a jam or even create their own arrangements after using only Murphy's tapes and DVD's, but I certainly think they're as helpful as any of the other tools that are available, not including a good teacher of course.

minstrelmike - Posted - 01/28/2010:  10:51:35

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They like it because it works for them.

Learning anything complex is a pita. To learn the basics, you have to copy something at some point,whether tab or a teacher in person or on video.

To move on, you have to start -playing- music on your own, but that's a personal choice.
Choose the method that works quickest for you to get up-to-speed. For folks who aren't readers, Murphy is a lifesaver, but like any introductory class, the student has to remember it's an introduction to _music_, not a lifestyle of learning. (This goes for Murphy addicts as well as tab addicts).

I use tab to teach because you can read it faster than you can listen to someone explain it, but if the reading of tab only confuses you or makes learning seem harder than learning another way, it isn't a good choice for getting started.

steve davis - Posted - 01/28/2010:  10:57:46

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No matter how you decide to learn,you'll only get out of it what you
project of yourself into the task.

Sourdough Pickens - Posted - 01/28/2010:  15:04:55

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Well, I didn't see the OP as being either negative or closeminded....just someone wondering why. I've never used Murphy's method, but she has made it clear in her countless ads over the years that she is giving an option to those who don't do tabs. I've used mostly tabs since it is easier for me. Listening to the piece being played does help with the timing, but I rarely try to learn a new song from tab that I haven't listened to....and liked. Tabs are also more readily available. People who learn by slowing down recordings and picking out the notes totally amaze me!

justagrinin - Posted - 01/28/2010:  15:33:23

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I've heard it said that with time you can listen to a song and figure it out. So I've been looking for time and can't find it.
Time don't give up on me, I'll do right some day. Time don't tune me out, don't turn away, for I'm just a lonesome banjo picker
out in the cold, and time I'm only half way home. lol....

I do look foward to the day that I can pick out the tune of a song, and yes I to am a Murphy / Casey Henryite.lol..

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Edited by - justagrinin on 01/28/2010 15:35:06

mebacon - Posted - 01/28/2010:  16:07:13

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I have spent a lot of time learning in my lifetime and have had plenty of great teachers. I have taken lessons privately from Murphy and use her DVD's just about every day. I think she is one of the finest teachers of any subject I have ever had. I don't think you can judge her system from just one video. There is a reason it is called a method and I think that means if you want to use it you have to pretty much go with her program which she has outlined in her own blogs. Rich Weill always has a point but in answer to his question, Casey Henry learned by the Murphy Method and she is a stellar banjo player. So I think if you stick with this method you can learn to play tunes (and compose tunes) not on Murphy videos.

MEB

dgill - Posted - 01/28/2010:  16:53:18

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I started pickin in Dec 08. I first tried an instructor, which wanted me to listen to him play and then just take off and follow him. That did not work. He then tried tab with me and I did learn some rolls and Bile Them Cabbage Down. I decided to buy some DVD's and try this. A site member recommended the MM and I took right off. I do use tab and her method now, but I quickly get away from the tab and go to memory as quickly as possible.
Now after several months I found another instructor and feel good about my progress. I also have some Arthur Hatfield DVD's and some Geoff Hohwald stuff. I also am a member of the Banjo Academy. It too is a wonderful tool. I still use the MM and have most of her DVD's. She is a wonderful source to learn from and is only one of the tools I use to continue on this journey. Not to mention the many resources and great people that I learn from on this site. Just my 2 pennies. Thanks for asking.

Tam_Zeb - Posted - 01/28/2010:  16:59:53

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Why are so many people HYPED about the Murphy Method?

Goodness I guess for as long as Murphy continues teaching this debate will keep rolling on. There are those who buy into it and there are those who don't.

Well Bandzo. What more can I say, either you accept the advice on offer or you reject it, it's your choice. No one is forcing you to accept their advice, they simply offer it to you in good faith.

You can rest assured of the next ten Newbies to read all the replies to your question some will try to learn TAB without the guidence of a teacher, some will take private lessons from a teacher, some will try learning from video/online instruction. Some will be very successful in learning to play the banjo and some will not.

However there is one thing they will all have in common they are all being offered some sound advice and they alone will decide which path to follow.

I thank you for the opportunity to once again sing the praises of the Murphy Method. Murphy has opened the door for me and inspired me to fulfil a life long ambition to learn to play the banjo.

She has taught me the fundimentals of the Scruggs Style which is now enabling me to go far beyond my own expectations, to take on new challenges.

Although Murphy does not advocate the use of TAB I can tell you this much, what shes taught me about the mechanics of playing and listening to the banjo has enabled me to learn tunes from TAB, something I was totally at a loss to before I tried the Murphy Method. The key difference is that I am not TAB dependent. Once I learn a tune from TAB I put the TAB away and practice the tune by ear.

There's no HYPE when it comes to the Murphy Method. It's not magical it's merely a tool to help you learn to play the banjo. Like any course of instruction you have to put in a lot of hard work to make it a success. What the package is, is a group of lessons put together in a very clever way that makes learning easy to understand and a whole lot of fun, taught by an amazing individual who has a real gift for teaching.

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Edited by - Tam_Zeb on 01/29/2010 01:15:38

Sourdough Pickens - Posted - 01/28/2010:  18:08:24

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This is interesting. I'm new here, but I've belong to other genre forums for years....horse forums, train forums, motorcycle forums. In all these there are the comparative threads....Parelli method vs Lyons method in horse training, Trainz vs MSTS in train sims, Harley Davidson vs everyone else in motorcycles....and now here... They all have one thing in common.....people get a little testy..

Tam_Zeb - Posted - 01/29/2010:  02:44:50

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rich Weill

A few years ago, I started a thread attempting to collect experiences with the Murphy Method: banjohangout.org/archive/94819 I did so because, having tried it for a while, I had very mixed feelings. I thought Murphy had a unique ability to break a song down into its easily understood parts, communicate how to play those segments, and do so in a way that allowed you to learn the song very quickly and, as importantly, remember it. But I didn't think I was learning much beyond how to play those particular songs.

My question to anyone who has used the Murphy Method long term (which I didn't) remains the same: Based on what you learned there, are you now able to hear a new song a sufficient number of times, pick up your banjo, and play it? Or are you only able to play the songs on her DVDs?

This is a question, not a judgment. Murphy teaches a lot of songs. Learning the songs she teaches likely is of great satisfaction for a lot of banjo players. I respect that. And I doubt that many people can teach those songs as clearly and in as user-friendly a way as Murphy. And I know that she builds on licks she's taught previously in a well-planned, systematic course of instruction.

But my question remains: How well does the Murphy Method work when you're trying to learn a song on your own, without Murphy's help?

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Rich raises an excellent point here which at my stage of learning I can't really give an answer and perhaps I never will because I am now exploring other teaching methods to develope on what Murphy has taught me. Maybe there are others are in a better position to do so.

I think it fair to point out that although Rich made a conscious decision to change direction during his learning curve the fact remains that he surely gained something from the experience. Maybe Rich is at a stage where he's wondering what if???

I often ask myself "what if" I had access to a good private instructor would I be any better than I am now. If I had bought Janet Davis's book before I bought Murphy beginners DVD would I be TAB dependent now. If I had started out with Pete Wernick or Geoff Hohwald or Ross Nickerson the Moose or whoever would I be any better at playing the banjo than I am today.

The fact is I started with a video clip and book of TAB. The book of TAB was way over my head. The reason it was way over my head, I was at the bottom of a big learning curve with no one to turn to for guidence. The video clip however opened the door.

Rather than ponder "what if" I'm just glad I found the Murphy Method when I did because I now have the grounding to explore all those other teaching methods that are out there on video, CD, TAB and not to feel too intimadated to participate in a workshop or a jam session.

If the opportunity arises and I feel the need I may take some private lessons in the knowledge that I know the fundimentals of the Scruggs Style and won't feel intimidated when I'm asked to play a forward roll, or to fret a G chord in the F , D or Barre position or to do a slide from two to three on the third string followed by a hammer on.

Once a child learns how to take the first step he or she has the rest of his life to explore.

So to coin a phrase from Murphy. "And there you have it"

thetexan - Posted - 01/29/2010:  08:42:28

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The Murphy method is simply learning by watching someone show you how to do it. They demonstrate, you watch and learn, then you demonstrate what you have learned. This is a classic learning method that has been done for thousands of years. It works for auto repair training and for banjo instruction. There is nothing new about it. And, it is a great way to learn.

However, it has one disadvantage. That disadvantage can best be illustrated by looking at the child's game of 'telephone'. One person whispers a story into the ear of another person and then that person, in turn, relates what he has heard to the next, an so on and so on. By the time it is passed around 20 times the story has changed significantly. In other words, fidelity is not a characteristic of the demonstrate/observe/demonstrate method, and it never has been. That is why, with some kinds of training, airman certification and air traffic certification for two, a very high set of standards are established and must be met in order to ensure the learning, which would otherwise be subject to generationally induced change, meets that high standard.

Of course, that doesnt happen with learning the banjo. We just watch someone show us how to play something and we learn it best we can and there it is. Any differences from the way it was taught is excussed as 'artisitic interpretation'. And there is nothing wrong with that. But, again, fidelity is not a characteristic of the process and is usually lost.

Now enter learning from tabs. If you want to learn how to play 'Intermezzi (3) for Piano, Op. 117: no 2 in B flat minor' by Brahms on the piano you dont look for a Murphy-like tape so you can utilize the demonstrate/learn/demonstrate form of learning. Instead, you get the sheet music and learn the piece, note for note, from it. The sheet music is the archive of the original score, unchanged. Fidelity to the original is maintained, and if you learn it, you have learned the actual piece, note for note. The 'telephone' disadvantage is eliminated.

Bluegrass music is certainly not expected to be, nor, of necessity, required to be as strickly interpreted as a classical piano work. Bluegrass, in fact, by its very nature is folk-artsy and is very interpretive. So the subtle differences that result from the demonstrate/learn/demonstrate method (Murphy), while infusing infidelity to the original, end up adding the 'traditional' and 'folksy' flavor of the genre.

Tabs are the written archive of the piece as written by the author. It doesnt matter how many people learn from tabs or how many generations the tabs are passed down to, the 1000th person to learn the song learns it the same way the first person does, and the way it was written by the author.

Tabs, then, are great for two main reasons. First they archive forever the musical piece and fidelity is maintained. Secondly, and most importantly, they reposit an almost limitless storehouse of musical bluegrass treasures. Within any single tab there is likely to be some lick, phrase, run or other banjo goodie that can be extracted and added to your banjo arsenal. For this reason I suggest listening to every tabbed piece you can get your hands on and look for those hidden nuggets that can be of use to you.

Tabs are a great way to learn. They are precise, contain untold amounts of great musical treatments, but take focus and determination when you want to learn a complete song true to the tab's original score.

Murphy is a name attached to an ageless and traditional method of learning that utilizes the demonstrate/learn/demonstrate method which can be easier to learn from but does not necessarily ensure fidelity to the original. However, usually, it is close enough for bluegrass work and in many cases comes pretty close. It does not ensure, however, that generational changes wont creep in, and, in fact, provides the conditions conducive for exactly that. As does any and all one on one, demonstrate/learn/demonstrate learning situations.

So, if you just want to learn some bluegrass, Murphy is fine, tab is fine. With Murphy you will probably learn something quicker than tab. With tab you will be learning a piece exacly as written but with a little more effort. With Murphy you can get pretty close to one-for-one transfer, with tab you can achieve 100% one-for-one transfer.

After years of doing this it is clear to me that both demonstration/learn/demonstration (such as Murphy, instructors, or noodling at jams ) and tabs should be a part of a complete learning regimen. Both styles of learning has advantages to offer.

tex

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Edited by - thetexan on 01/29/2010 08:51:09

Douglas Stangle - Posted - 01/29/2010:  10:51:19

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Hey Red and Murphy,

We need another or advanced Monroe mandolin DVD from Chris as well as another advanced Earl DVD.

One of your good customers,

Doug

GHohwald - Posted - 01/29/2010:  11:28:25

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I’ve been watching mentions of the various instructional methods and notice that the Murphy Method has been used by may people and virtually all of the comments are favorable. I got to thinking about this and remember reading the introduction to a Suzuki piano method that my daughter Sarah was using. Suzuki said that “written music was a way to learn individual pieces and that the student should memorize the piece as quickly as possible so they could start adding feeling and emotion to it”. I believe that the Murphy Method forces you to do that and probably gets the committed student playing with feeling faster than any other method.

I believe that tablature is a vehicle to let you look at a lot of music very quickly. You can buy a book with lots of songs in it and go over a lot of information quickly. You can also carry a book with you where ever you go. As you use it more and more you start recognizing licks and patterns and can actually hear it in your head as you are looking at it. If you like a particular arrangement you can then start learning it immediately. This is especially useful if you want to memorize a note for note arrangement. However, I am reluctant to work with a tab that does not have a recording with it because it takes 2 or 3 times as long.

My point is that if you wanted to have a library of 500 songs it certainly would be more accessible in the form of a book than a video. or DVD.
The second point is that at some time you have to either not use tablature or spend a lot of time committing the songs to memory. In this case if you learned from the Murphy Method it could speed up the process. Basically you are learning the song including playing it with feeling in one step instead of two.

If you are lucky enough to have a friend that plays competently or an instructor that will teach you by ear that is great. If not and you are a beginner it appears that the Murphy Method would be the answer. If you chose this route it would still be helpful to be able to read tablature because some arrangements are only available in this format.

My conclusion is just like Suzuki said “ Memorize the song you are working on as quickly as possible”. Use whatever method works the best for you.

quote:

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Originally posted by bandzo

Many nice people have recommended me (and to hundreds of others) the "murphy method".
I am looking at her sample video and all I see is this nice lady telling me, note by note, how to play a song. Sure, for really simple songs this probably works fine. For more complicated stuff this is probably total PITA (if there is no tab). I do not understand why is this "play-stop-rewind-stop" method so hyped up. Especially if you have to sit in front of the PC (+mouse and keyboard) or TV (+remote control) when you practice.

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steve davis - Posted - 01/29/2010:  13:06:38

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I can't figure out why some people think that if you learn a tune from tablature
that you are then locked into playing it that one way forever.

minstrelmike - Posted - 01/29/2010:  13:29:20

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quote:

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I can't figure out why some people think that if you learn a tune from tablature
that you are then locked into playing it that one way forever.

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Ditto.
What I don't understand is that if I learn the exact same arrangement from a teacher or a dvd who shows me using fingers instead of marks on a piece of paper, then why aren't I just as locked in?

Learning is learning whether from tab or teacher. Copying is copying and learning to improvise is different from copying.

Rich Weill - Posted - 01/29/2010:  13:39:59

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quote:

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Originally posted by Tam_Zeb

I think it fair to point out that although Rich made a conscious decision to change direction during his learning curve the fact remains that he surely gained something from the experience. Maybe Rich is at a stage where he's wondering what if???

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Since you asked -- and only since you asked -- yes, I did learn something. But that "something" was only that I "learned" to pay a couple of specific songs (although, for some of them, I could never play them fast enough to sound recognizable).

Here's what I didn't learn: I didn't learn about the song's chord progression. I didn't learn where the melody notes fit into the rolls. I didn't learn what was the core of the arrangement and what was the ornamentation (so I could play something simpler at first, that would actually let me hear the song). I didn't learn why I was doing what I was being told to do.

I'm no expert, but one thing I'm fairly convinced of is that you should learn the banjo in layers, gradually transforming a simple arrangement into something more sophisticated. [If you don't know what I mean, grab a copy of Janet Davis' "Splitting the Licks."] The advantages of this approach are numerous: You can hear the song you're playing very early in the process. You learn why you're doing what you're doing. You learn to improvise. It's easier to play with other people (because, if necessary, you can drop back to a simpler version that you can play up to their speed).

The two Murphy Method DVDs that I used didn't give me those benefits or that understanding. So I have no regrets looking elsewhere.

Hotrodtruck - Posted - 01/29/2010:  13:49:57

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Ghohwald, you touched on a subject that doesn't get discussed much and that is that after a person learns to use tab, they can look at a piece of tabbed music and actually play it in their head. I realized that I could do this without even thinking about it. I can look at the tab in Banjo Newsletter and know if I will like the arrangement, or not. I have heard that classical musicians can do this by reading a piece of sheet music.

Rich Weill - Posted - 01/29/2010:  13:53:38

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quote:

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Originally posted by steve davis

I can't figure out why some people think that if you learn a tune from tablature that you are then locked into playing it that one way forever.

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Other than hunting down other tabs of the tune in the same key, and cutting and pasting measure 12 from one into measure 12 of another, etc., deviating from tablature requires that you first gain some outside knowledge. Chords, rolls and roll selection, melody notes and accentuating melody notes, and so forth. If all you know is how to play what's on the tab, note for note, I can see a problem with trying to deviate.

minstrelmike - Posted - 01/29/2010:  14:06:40

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I received all my 'outside' knowledge of chords and rolls from tablature.

Tablature is just a starting point. Apparently, there are other people who teach listening to a song as just a starting point instead of trying to make a perfect copy., I suspect they're teaching folks how to improvise. Adherence to dogma is adherence regardless of the type of dog.