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twelvefret - Posted - 11/19/2009: 06:38:01
I got my Elderly catalogue yesterday. There were four pages of open-back banjos listed compared to two pages of resonator banjos offered.
Could we be in for another "folk scare"? Just kidding, it caught my attention and I wanted to share it with you all.
chip arnold - Posted - 11/19/2009: 06:48:22
It's a communist plot, is what it is :-) First they take your resonators, then your tonerings. While you're distracted by these things, they fill your children's minds with all manner of evil having to do with accordians. Be vigilant.
twelvefret - Posted - 11/19/2009: 07:00:53
quote:
they fill your children's minds with all manner of evil having to do with accordians.
Lions and tigers and bears and accordions, oh my!!! 
f#dead - Posted - 11/19/2009: 08:01:44
Is it because of or causes climate change?
Voyageur - Posted - 11/19/2009: 08:02:09
Maybe more people are becoming interested in playing banjo for its own sake, in their own homes, just for the enjoyment of themselves and their families(?) with no desire to ever play in public. Of course, if you're in a bluegrass band, you need a loud, cracking resonator banjo, otherwise the obnoxious fiddle will drown you out. [Just kidding - I play fiddle, too.]
And open-backs are lighter in weight - why hump around 12 lbs if you don't need to?
Or maybe Chip is right, it's a communist plot.
jamie_t123 - Posted - 11/19/2009: 08:04:54
Play them because my back is killing me! I'm thinking I am not alone
Booger McGee - Posted - 11/19/2009: 08:13:56
I think that pricing and our current economy play a major factor. For the price of one nice resonator / bluegrass banjo, I could buy several top notch openback banjos. Additionally an openback provides a more accessible price point for those who are curious about playing, but not willing and/or able to shell out the big $s.
Booger
bluemule_77 - Posted - 11/19/2009: 08:36:05
Right, Booger. (Never imagined I'd say those words.) I wonder how many banjo owners are new players (< 1 year, say) as compared to those who are intermediate or expert players. I imagine most banjos being sold today, by and large, are being sold to beginners.
BM
Mumble Peg - Posted - 11/19/2009: 08:53:04
Haven't you heard?
Starting the first of the year, a federal luxury excise tax on resonators goes into effect.
chip arnold - Posted - 11/19/2009: 09:03:50
Openbacks are cheaper but I doubt that folks who want a resonator banjo would buy an openback for that reason. Openbacks have been the style to play for old time music since the folk scare period. The increased popularity of them now is (I think) more a sign that old time music is having a new surge in popularity. Move over bluegrassers, your days as a viable species are numbered ;-)
R Buck - Posted - 11/19/2009: 09:48:59
Chip is right it is a communist plot. After all they probably build more banjos in China that any other place in the world!!! I own one resonator banjo and a more openbacks.
dewbanjo - Posted - 11/19/2009: 10:19:58
Ther's a tax deduction on open backs....they save the environment.. they take less material to make....
devoall - Posted - 11/19/2009: 10:47:25
in my neck of the woods, banjo playing in general is becoming more popular. There seems to be a resurgence amongst young people . I predict that especially amongst kids who grew up in the punk/DIY music scene there is going to be an upsurge of "old-timey" type bands. it's definitely happening in northern california.
The music is special and it inspires kids to dig into the history of the instrument. I'm all for it.
J-Walk - Posted - 11/19/2009: 11:01:48
Looking at Bernunzio's inventory, I see 96 open backs, and 11 resonator banjos listed. Open backs are just a lot more interesting.
howseth - Posted - 11/19/2009: 11:23:49
I am out of touch with any music scene these days (except the Banjo hangout) . However - I would not be surprised in a younger persons revival of open back banjo music sound - I can smell a wiff of it in the air...that "Indy Sound."
Howard
strokestyle - Posted - 11/19/2009: 11:33:14
quote:
having to do with accordions
Careful - I am a board member for the KWA and KWB.... Kids without Accordions and Kids without banjos.... We do not allow any donations.
f#dead - Posted - 11/19/2009: 12:26:22
Open back styles appeal to me because you don't need a band for it to work. I realize there are some Scruggs style and pickers that play sweet solo pieces but for every lilting solo piece that a picker does, they play ten or more songs that really need the band to work. Old Time, CH and frailing tend to have melody and rhythm combined in the one instrument. So you can DIY whether its on the porch, around the fire or even on the stage. "Folk scare" I think people just want to entertain themselves and go from there. Besides, you don't have to know where the band practice is, hey Mike G. =:-) just my $.02
Edited by - f#dead on 11/19/2009 12:27:23
1four5 - Posted - 11/19/2009: 12:42:45
quote:
Of course, if you're in a bluegrass band, you need a loud, cracking resonator banjo
Or a Helix. Really  I'm with Jamie, my resonator banjos are just too heavy, and gravity keeps increasing the older I get. I can play my open back all day long, and the volume coming out of my Helix is plenty for the band. But the real reason is so you don't hide stuff in the resonator at the airport.
slabounty - Posted - 11/19/2009: 12:48:56
quote:
Originally posted by devoall
in my neck of the woods, banjo playing in general is becoming more popular. There seems to be a resurgence amongst young people . I predict that especially amongst kids who grew up in the punk/DIY music scene there is going to be an upsurge of "old-timey" type bands. it's definitely happening in northern california.
The music is special and it inspires kids to dig into the history of the instrument. I'm all for it.
It used to be the joke was that "Rockabilly was the Punk retirement plan". Maybe now it's old-time. Or old-time is the rockabilly retirement plan ;-).
slabounty - Posted - 11/19/2009: 12:49:32
quote:
Originally posted by Mumble Peg
Haven't you heard?
Starting the first of the year, a federal luxury excise tax on resonators goes into effect.
I'm surprisingly OK with that. ;-)
Bill Rogers - Posted - 11/19/2009: 12:58:16
The Key here is that it's Elderly. Stan Werbin is an old-time player, and that's his main banjo interest. Also, Elderly is not in the heart of bluegrass country; instead it's close to two major universities. Colleges are focal points in the old-time music revival. Bart Reiter was the head of Elderly's repair dept. for some years, and started building his banjos while there I believe. So that's another major openback connection. I think it has a lot more to do with those factors than relative popularity of openbacks per se. Zepp also focuses on openbacks. The bluegrass market is well covered by such dealers as Janet Davis, Banjo.com and Turtle Hill.
darryl k. - Posted - 11/19/2009: 13:05:18
A lot of them just sound better. In the past two days I've listened to the new "Crow" album, with the million dollar pre Napolian wars G. ( name brand ) banjo and the "Haines" ( Jason Romero ) cd. That raspy old G. may be louder, but for tone it's not even close to Jasons.
IMHO
darryl
majikgator - Posted - 11/19/2009: 13:15:59
there is a resurgance in the popularity of Old Time Music now that seems to have got kicked off by o Brother Where Art Thou and though there was nary a banjo played in it the interest in the music seems to have taken on a life of it's own, the open back banjos rightly or wrongly sem to be associated more with OT music are cheaper and lighter and quite frankly LOOK more old timey, it's amazing some of the music being played on them, check out House Flies for instance, at any rate i am all in favor of this as when people find they actually have to learn how to play them it may make for some good deals on used open back banjos. which i fell in love with first.
chip arnold - Posted - 11/19/2009: 13:30:37
I saw Oh Brother when it was at the theater. Wasn't there a scene where one of them was playing a banjo in the back seat of the car? And another scene where a banjo was part of a group on stage?
Laurence Diehl - Posted - 11/19/2009: 15:07:55
Well I'm an accordion player and I VOTE!
Just kidding  ...never touch the stuff. Yeah, I got the same catalogue. Maybe there is a lot of new interest that has nothing to do with BG - or even CH, my kids are listening to tinkley banjo from Modest Mouse (whoever they are)
stanger - Posted - 11/19/2009: 15:17:21
Wow!
I seldom see a thread as big as this where I agree with everyone's comments, but this sure is one!
In addition to all of the above, I'll add:
I think that most of the innovations that are coming out now are coming from the open back makers.
With a few exceptions, almost all of the resonated banjos being built now are locked in to a single old design. I agree the banjo market is shifting away from that single prototype.
regards,
stanger
Jami108 - Posted - 11/19/2009: 15:44:44
quote:
Originally posted by devoall
I predict that especially amongst kids who grew up in the punk/DIY music scene there is going to be an upsurge of "old-timey" type bands.
Old Time music was the punk/DIY of the '20s and '30s. Jami ************ <insert picture of Retta Spradlin> <This is where my signature would have been back in the good old days>
Jami108 - Posted - 11/19/2009: 15:46:40
quote:
Originally posted by chip arnold
they fill your children's minds with all manner of evil having to do with accordians.
Oh my. I've been playing my open back banjo with an accordion player lately, so it must be working! Jami
twelvefret - Posted - 11/19/2009: 16:03:27
quote:
In addition to all of the above, I'll add:
I think that most of the innovations that are coming out now are coming from the open back makers.
With a few exceptions, almost all of the resonated banjos being built now are locked in to a single old design. I agree the banjo market is shifting away from that single prototype.
regards,
stanger
I live less than 15 miles from the genius banjo maker Ronnie Bales, http://www.balesbanjos.com/testimonials.htm He is truly innovative and inspired. He credited the Lord with giving him a new design and it is now patent pending. However, in BG there is a standard for how the paying public thinks a banjo should sound. These consumers kill their young if someone like Bela Fleck attempts to fall too far from the tree (ES). The open-back is wide "open" with possibilities and consumers appear to be more flexible.
Edited by - twelvefret on 11/19/2009 17:50:33
J-Walk - Posted - 11/19/2009: 16:19:13
quote:
He credited the Lord with giving him a new design and it is now patented (I wonder of God make him pay royalties).
Interesting banjo marketing technique. It would backfire on some of us, though.
chip arnold - Posted - 11/19/2009: 16:53:52
Quote: "Interesting banjo marketing technique"
Or he could be sincere..... ?
Don Borchelt - Posted - 11/19/2009: 17:51:02
Twelvefret wrote: "He credited the Lord with giving him a new design and it is now patented..."
There is another major maker who tells a similar story. He once said to a group of people I was hanging with that he was afraid to tinker with the Gibson Mastertone design, because it was something almost sacred, but he prayed on it, and came to understand that it would be fitting for him to do so. I take him at his word.
twelvefret - Posted - 11/19/2009: 17:56:40
quote:
Interesting banjo marketing technique. It would backfire on some of us, though.
This is not something that is a part of his marketing. He related how the design came to him when I was visiting his shop in New Market, Tennessee. His design is patent pending and I edited my post to reflect that. I also deleted the part about paying God royalties. While I meant nothing disrespectful, it could be taken that way. He is a very talented and sincere person and wonderful craftsperson.
J-Walk - Posted - 11/19/2009: 18:10:52
quote:
This is not something that is a part of his marketing.
Not wanting to start an argument or second-guess the guy, but the "God credit" is fairly prominent on his home page: http://www.balesbanjos.com/index.htmHe is most excited over his “Turbo” rim design. Ronnie gives God the credit for an idea that is so obvious and simpleAll I'm saying is that it's a turn-off to some people. His market is the U.S., and Americans tend to be very much into religion. So the number of people who like that kind of thing certainly exceeds the number of people who are turned off by it. I prefer to buy stuff from people who don't wear their religion on their shirt sleeve, but that's just me.
sugarinthegourd - Posted - 11/19/2009: 18:23:21
I would guess that outside the Southeast and a few other Bluegrass hotspots, a majority of 5-string banjo players may be playing old-time music these days. Do you think I'm off base with that? There's also certainly a resurgence of young people playing old-time music with something of a punk/DIY ethos. I think bands like Bad Livers and Old Crow Medicine show helped stoke this fire, but it also has something to do with the fun, unpretentious nature of the music, its weirdness, and the appeal to many of us of playing music as a social or even individual activity "for its own sake" rather than on a stage as a performance activity.
twelvefret - Posted - 11/19/2009: 18:35:36
quote:
Not wanting to start an argument or second-guess the guy, but the "God credit" is fairly prominent on his home page:
http://www.balesbanjos.com/index.htm
He is most excited over his “Turbo” rim design. Ronnie gives God the credit for an idea that is so obvious and simple
All I'm saying is that it's a turn-off to some people. His market is the U.S., and Americans tend to be very much into religion. So the number of people who like that kind of thing certainly exceeds the number of people who are turned off by it.
I prefer to buy stuff from people who don't wear their religion on their shirt sleeve, but that's just me.
Can we move on? Please.
twelvefret - Posted - 11/19/2009: 18:36:34
quote:
Not wanting to start an argument or second-guess the guy, but the "God credit" is fairly prominent on his home page:
http://www.balesbanjos.com/index.htm
He is most excited over his “Turbo” rim design. Ronnie gives God the credit for an idea that is so obvious and simple
All I'm saying is that it's a turn-off to some people. His market is the U.S., and Americans tend to be very much into religion. So the number of people who like that kind of thing certainly exceeds the number of people who are turned off by it.
I prefer to buy stuff from people who don't wear their religion on their shirt sleeve, but that's just me.
Can we move on? Please.
RedZinger - Posted - 11/19/2009: 18:51:22
quote:
Originally posted by Bill Rogers
The Key here is that it's Elderly. Stan Werbin is an old-time player....
I sure would like to hope we're in another folk scare, but I'm guessing Bill is right. Then again there are 10 pages of electric guitars in the latest Elderly catalog. So... Maybe if we go around saying we're in the midst of the second folk revival, it will happen. PMA and all... Rob
J-Walk - Posted - 11/19/2009: 18:54:27
Sure we can move on, but YOU are the one who was compelled to make a comment about religion and banjos. Should we all just ignore it, or should we respond with our opinion?
There's a reason why BHO doesn't allow religious comments. It makes threads go way off topic. And this is an excellent example.
twelvefret - Posted - 11/19/2009: 19:08:31
quote:
Sure we can move on, but YOU are the one who was compelled to make a comment about religion and banjos. Should we all just ignore it, or should we respond with our opinion?
There's a reason why BHO doesn't allow religious comments. It makes threads go way off topic. And this is an excellent example.
Yes, I innocently brought it up. I had no idea you felt the way you did. I take full responsibility. Is there any way we can we move along or are you Hell bent in continuing to make an ass of yourself?
chip arnold - Posted - 11/19/2009: 19:47:59
Another folk scare? Whoohoo! That music along with the blues and early rock and roll ...... wow, I'll take it. But I get to keep my resonator banjo, right? And 12, I'd love to try one of those Bales banjos. Guess I could make that mod to my Baldwin.
Couchie - Posted - 11/19/2009: 21:05:47
It's been well documented that every Russian Tzar since Ivan the Terrible has played an open back banjo. It is most certainly a communist plot. Buyer beware!
devoall - Posted - 11/19/2009: 21:23:31
quote:
Originally posted by slabounty
quote:
Originally posted by devoall
in my neck of the woods, banjo playing in general is becoming more popular. There seems to be a resurgence amongst young people . I predict that especially amongst kids who grew up in the punk/DIY music scene there is going to be an upsurge of "old-timey" type bands. it's definitely happening in northern california.
The music is special and it inspires kids to dig into the history of the instrument. I'm all for it.
It used to be the joke was that "Rockabilly was the Punk retirement plan". Maybe now it's old-time. Or old-time is the rockabilly retirement plan ;-).
I've heard that joke before haha, but around where I grew up Skinheads ended up on the rockabilly retirement plan instead of punks haha. but it's all the same really. I like rockabilly, but I would never put that pomade in my hair thats for sure!
devoall - Posted - 11/19/2009: 21:28:16
quote:
Originally posted by sugarinthegourd
I would guess that outside the Southeast and a few other Bluegrass hotspots, a majority of 5-string banjo players may be playing old-time music these days. Do you think I'm off base with that? There's also certainly a resurgence of young people playing old-time music with something of a punk/DIY ethos. I think bands like Bad Livers and Old Crow Medicine show helped stoke this fire, but it also has something to do with the fun, unpretentious nature of the music, its weirdness, and the appeal to many of us of playing music as a social or even individual activity "for its own sake" rather than on a stage as a performance activity.
I totally agree with this. I get the same feelings from listening to and Trying to play OT music as I did when I first heard black flag or the minutemen. One of my favorite things about OT music is that it's acoustic and you can play ANYWHERE!! you dont need a trailer full of amps to go on tour. Its like punk but without all the amps. haha. it's totally unpretentious as you said.
RedZinger - Posted - 11/19/2009: 22:33:11
I live in a college town, and there's this local folk rock band of 20somethings. They have two guys in the band that play CH banjo (not at the same time and only on a few tunes but...). They're not bad -- placed 2nd in the local battle of the bands.
Chip, I guess it'd be ok if you want to keep your resonator. Heck, that resonator might even make a cool hat. No one would mistake you for a commie with that thing on your head.
Rob
dewbanjo - Posted - 11/20/2009: 03:45:36
"Peace Man"..... play your banjo, and have fun. tha's what an open back is for.
The Engineer - Posted - 11/20/2009: 04:50:03
[quote]Originally posted by J-Walk
Sure we can move on, but YOU are the one who was compelled to make a comment about religion and banjos. Should we all just ignore it, or should we respond with our opinion?
There's a reason why BHO doesn't allow religious comments. It makes threads go way off topic. And this is an excellent example.
So far you are the only one who is bellyaching about it, just leave it alone.
pickinchik - Posted - 11/20/2009: 06:01:48
I would like to add my two pennies to this discussion.
I started out in late 2004 with an interest in banjo. I had no idea what the difference in open back or resonator banjos really was until I started to pay attention. I got me a shiny new banjo (with resonator) for Christmas that year. That was all the music store carried so there wasn't much choice. I had an idea that I needed some weird metal pieces to cover my fingers, so I bought those too. I got online and started listening and found the BHO. I got some instruction books and dvd's to start learning.
Some of my first impressions were - GEEZ this thing is WAY too loud, I hate these metal fingerpicks, and dang this thing is entirely too heavy!
I plunked along and picked for about a year and a half before having my daughter. I actually got half way decent at about 10 songs that I had learned but I couldn't put my finger on why this wasn't that exciting for me. She basically stopped all banjo playing for the last 3 years for obvious reasons.
Anyway, along the way I came across something that I saw as magical. I came across clawhammer banjo being played. Right away I was drawn to it for several reasons.
The sound of the rhythm that the player made with the strings and the percussion of the thumb hitting the banjo head just sounded amazing to me. Then I realized that the player did not have any weird metal pieces growing out of her fingertips and I liked that idea also. Next I noticed that the player sounded like her own band instead of the lonely sound of that loud banjo that I had. I got to take a course with this person and actually got to look up close at her banjo and how unbelievably light it was. The music she made come out of that banjo had me hooked!
Fast forward a couple of years and now my daughter is 3 and I have picked up the banjo again. Did I reach for the propiks??? Nope, good old thumb and fingernail brushes suit me fine now. I sold the loud banjo and got me an openback. I can play without breaking my back or cutting my leg circulation off, I can actually kick a ball in the yard with my daughter while playing my openback, the quieter sound is friendlier to my family, my husband plays along with me on his guitar and it just sounds better to me.
I am a young woman (hhhmmm... nobody contest that please) who loves the sounds coming out of my banjo. As a beginner at both different genres I choose to play clawhammer because it suits me better. I choose an openback mainly because it weighs less and is not so crazy loud. I have seen 3 finger style pickers who play on openbacks and do not use fingerpicks either, so I don't know.
Anyway, that's my opinion on the matter in case anyone wondered. LOL
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