Ottawa - Posted - 11/18/2009:  17:03:35

There is a fiddle tune than I learned to play in Open G. The original tune is played in C and I am having a darned time trying to figure out what tuning is appropriate (I want to play this in C as well). I know what notes I need, but in terms of the double thumbing required to play the melody, the notes need to be on adjacent strings and for the life of me I am having trouble. As it is now, I have notes that need to be on adjacent strings for double thumbing on a single string and this just won't work (it just doesn't sound the same using pull-offs/hammer-ons o get from ntoe to note on the single string).

Is it as simple as retuning the strings until you find the fingering that works best?

If a song is in the Key of C, is it as simple as tuning to one of the C tunings (e.g. Open C, Double C, etc.) and figuring it out using one of those? Will a song in the Key of C work better sometime in another tuning (besides open C, double C, etc) depending upon where the notes fall?

A lot of questions but perhaps some ligth can be shed.

Thanks.

tonehead - Posted - 11/18/2009:  17:18:38

I guess the key is that you are used to playing it in open G. Short of capoing at the 5th fret you'll have to learn new fingering for the key of C. That could be done in open G but might be easier/make more sense musically in open C or double C.

majikgator - Posted - 11/18/2009:  17:40:10

a fiddle tune in C??? that's weird but no it will be totally different fingering in another tuning unless you want to capo to 5 not suggested and this new fingering just may not have those adjacent strings and i can't understand why double thumbing would be required to play any melody that doesn't seem to make sense or why adjacent stringa are needed for it, perhaps i am not sure if we have the same definitions for some of the words you are using in your definitions, a melody can be played on a piccolo and you can't double thumb those and it has no strings to be adjacent. if you want you new arrangenent to sound juat like the other arrangement but just being in a different key, well capo to five, it will be the same arrangement but it may sound funny capoed that high but i have seen a few BG players do it, you might be better off playing it on something like a Saga Pony banjo where the realtive tuning would be the same hence your fingering would be the same only up to a C from a G because of the short scale, you can't get to the same fingering by any amount of tuning however or probably even close to the same fingering.

Edited by - majikgator on 11/18/2009 17:41:10

The KIDD - Posted - 11/18/2009:  19:06:54

STEVEN !your KILLIN me ..Whats the NAME of the tune?....There are MANY fiddle tunes in C, BUT, there are 5 different configs for playing in C...Tell us the tune..It maybe be one of the 480 I know..

Ottawa - Posted - 11/18/2009:  20:17:00

Thank for the responses. It seems I managed to retune 'till it was manageable, and double-C tuning works well after all. It was right under my nose and I think I was overthinking everything. The tune, which I played in G normally, might not be well known, but its a French Canadian fiddle tune- le tourment by Jean Paul Loyer, but it is originally is C. I'll post a clip when I've got it down but I appreciate everyone stepping up to provide assistance!

Steven

chip arnold - Posted - 11/18/2009:  20:56:38

Well it sounds like you've ot it figured out. I was interested that you said you needed the notes on adjacent strings for ouble (drop?) thumbing. Why? You can easily frail the 1st and drop thumb the 4th if you need to. I probably misunderstood what you meant. Anyway, I hope you'll post a reminder when you post the tune. I'd love to hear it....I like C tunes.

ELWOOD - Posted - 11/19/2009:  08:00:20

Dont you just love it when that ol' Double C tuning says I Am your best friend............Steve.........Looking for the Mp3

chip arnold - Posted - 11/19/2009:  08:06:10

There are a bunch of good tunes in C. I love the sound of the banjo in C/C or open C.

J-Walk - Posted - 11/19/2009:  08:06:44

I think playing a familiar tune in a different key (and different tuning) is excellent practice. It often adds new life to a tune that you've gotten bored playing.

Often, when transposing from G to C (or vice versa), you need to play one of the parts an octave higher or an octave lower, just because you run out of notes. So, sometime the high part becomes the low part, and the low part becomes the high part.

majikgator - Posted - 11/19/2009:  08:23:01

i am curious as to what a few of the many fiddle tunes in C might be, i can't think of one right off hand, i love playing in C and G but am constantly confronted by A and D tunes, and the of course G is actually a great key for fiddle or mandolin although you don't have as many single finger double stops, however although i don't really play mandolin i have been around the neck of one enough to know it is not C friendly. i agree with J-Walk 100% on the possibility of transcribing to a different key (and tuning) bringing NEW life into a tune.

J-Walk - Posted - 11/19/2009:  08:42:26

Here's a list of OT fiddle tunes in C:

http://slippery-hill.com/c/

majikgator - Posted - 11/19/2009:  14:46:42

Thank's much J-Walk i will archive this and hopefully use it to my advantage, i noticed several well known tunes in there i didn't realize were played in C, just shows ya what i don't know.

J-Walk - Posted - 11/19/2009:  17:43:27

I play a teensy-tiny bit of fiddle occasionally and very badly. There's no way I could play a tune in C, but many people do it. I prefer Cross A and Cross G tunings, which make it easier to hide my mistakes.

My current favorite C tune for banjo is "Down In Little Egypt," learned from a Chirps Smith recording.

ELWOOD - Posted - 11/19/2009:  19:48:39

To even dare to suggest that this well versed crowd would not know that double C caped up two would give great results for D fiddle tunes, and it does ,ask any fiddler how sweet that can be.....Steve.....I also love the sound of old G tuning in this vein and the same is true for Old G up two is Fiddle friendly A....I have stated the obvious. I'll just go now..Elwood

majikgator - Posted - 11/20/2009:  20:33:29

yes elwood of course but i hate capos and don't use them unless there is absolutely no other choice, i don't like the way they make the banjo sound for clawhammer playing, that's me and some others, of course what you sugggest is a normal course of action if you don't have a capo aversion old G G, open G, Double C, sawmill, etc any tuning you might want to mention or put the capo anywhere you want it, i have seen BG players put them on the 5th fret to play in C from an open G tuning as that is the only tuning a lot of people play in, just ain't for me. interesting about all these C fiddle tunes, i didn't realize there were so many, i also know exactly one fiddle player that uses non standard (GDAE ) tunings on occasion, interestingly he also has a fiddle with a skin top on it like a banjo head (wood back has f holes in it), sounds cool, pain to tune. so for my little part of the world A, D and G are the keys you want to play in with fiddlers.

ELWOOD - Posted - 11/21/2009:  14:05:22

Magicgator, Great AKA, I agree my Vega sounds sick capo-ed an my Ramsey is the only banjo that seems to ignore the capo. The tuning thing is one huge reason why I am a claw hammer player,With the moves down and an open mind to tuning the claw style knows no bounds. Plus the ancient Modal scales are why we are here now . I think you and I have alot in common and suggesting Double C tuning as a starting point is so necessary- primary..................Any thoughts?.........Steve