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migobegi - Posted - 11/16/2009: 13:48:20
First off, this is a blasphemous question, nevertheless...
I am looking to purchase an upgraded banjo in the next year or so and want to know what kind of setup will help it sound more like a harp/guitar. My wife is much happier with a sweeter sound. (She is much happier with my practicing since I bought a mute for mine!) I want to continue the banjo and need some help in creating an instrument that appeals to both of us.
I am not asking about specific models or makers. Instead I would like to know generally what to look for and what modifications will help. I also do not want to use a mute.
My questions include: What height bridge works best? How tight should the head be? What type head give a nice clear sound? What size strings give a clearer sound? I assume a heavier brass tone ring is better, is that true? Is maple the best wood for the rim and neck? What flange qualities give a clearer sound? What do I need to know about tailpieces?
Thanks all.
P.S. I did a few searches in the forum but did not find a good discussion. I would love any links to previous discussions that describe this information.
Edited by - migobegi on 11/19/2009 08:30:07
WildJimbo - Posted - 11/16/2009: 13:58:20
I'd recommend a harp.. or a guitar. If you buy a better banjo, then it's going to sound even more like a banjo. So, why buy something just to change it?
Then again you could buy a Nechville Meteor and run it thru a midi converter. You can then sound like anything you might imagine.
http://nechville.com/cosmos.html
Now, on to your questions:
...what modifications will help? Probably some sort of mute. But since you don't want a mute, then a really heavy bridge.
What height bridge works best? 11/16 for me
How tight should the head be? Tightened until the sound is where I want it.
What type head give a nice clear sound? Depends on the banjo or the sound you want. I use Remo and 5-Star
What size strings give a clearer sound? Again it depends. I like the 9.5 sets.
I assume a heavier brass tone ring is better, is that true? Not always, but generally.
Is maple the best wood for the rim and neck? Probably for the rim, not necessarily for the neck.
What flange qualities give a clearer sound? Again, that's subjective. Some like 2 piece, others like 1 piece.
What do I need to know about tailpieces? They hold the strings. ;) Again, it's a matter of preference. Heavier ones tend to make the banjo brighter.
Jim Pankey
Bagpussfrog - Posted - 11/16/2009: 14:07:25
nothing mellows and sweetens a banjo like Nylgut strings, maybe that would help? Although, if you have a resonator banjo, that wouldn't work...
_________________________________________________________________________
When you want genuine music - music that will come right home to you like a bad quarter, suffuse your system like strychnine whiskey, go right through you like Brandreth's pills, ramify your whole constitution like the measles, and break out on your hide like the pinfeather pimples on a picked goose - when you want all this, just smash your piano, and invoke the glory-beaming banjo!
Mark Twain
( ] )=====^===[: :}
BNJOMAKR - Posted - 11/16/2009: 14:13:15
Make yourself a bridge out of solid brass. 30 years ago my brother was taking machine shop, and he thought it would be neat to make me a banjo bridge out of brass. It sounded just like a guitar... !
"Those who never try... never will!"
BNJOMAKR
xnavyguy - Posted - 11/16/2009: 14:21:08
Vertical grain banjo bridges do a lot to reduce what I call the "raspy" sound in most banjos using conventional bridges. They also add a lot of harplike sweetness & clarity up the neck. Problem though, is the banjo still sounds a lot like a banjo, only better, and certainly a lot easier on the ears.
Jerry
"Life may not be the party we hoped for, but while we're here we should dance."
Klondike Waldo - Posted - 11/16/2009: 14:27:46
Try picking up closer to the fingerboard.
I'll never play like Earl Scruggs or sing like Luciano Pavarotti, but I'll pick better than Luciano and sing tenor better than Earl
deligo ergo renideo,
Bob Cameron
scooter46 - Posted - 11/16/2009: 14:35:39
Buy a six string banjitar or a reso, or put a piece of sponge under the strings next to the bridge then take it out when she's gone an let er ring. Larry
Learning a new skill takes time, patience and practice. Also it is very important to stay hydrated
1four5 - Posted - 11/16/2009: 14:43:19
Banjola or Dojo or guitar tuned to open G.
Dean
jpiperson2002 - Posted - 11/16/2009: 14:45:32
quote:
Originally posted by migobegi
First off, this is a blasphemous question, nevertheless...
I am looking to purchase an upgraded banjo in the next year or so and want to know what kind of setup will help it sound more like a harp/guitar. My wife does not appreciate the banjo sound. She is much happier with a sweeter sound. (She is much happier with my practicing since I bought a mute for mine!) I want to continue the banjo and need some help in creating an instrument that appeals to both of us.
I am not asking about specific models or makers.....
I find that a Mike's mute available at http://www.mikesbanjomute.com/ both quiets the sound and produces a nice chimey sound with a bit of extra sustain. It's my favorite mute for that reason. Also it doesn't shift the postion of the bridge when being mounted and you shouldn't need to retune the strings after the mute is put on unless you screw down the finger bolts very tight. On the other hand, you might consider a Gold Tone Dojo instead. That's a resonator guitar body with a single resonator cone and a regular 5 string banjo neck. They get mixed reviews for quality control but I needed to get one because my wife plays guitar but can't stand the sound of a banjo. They come up used on occasion and if you don't mind doing your own luthier adjustments you can probably find a new reduced-price grade B model on e-bay. Here are some pictures of mine (after a few paragraphs of narrative) with the cone out for replacement and showing how I added a scoop and some extra sound holes. It sounds similar to our regular acoustic guitars but the regular 5 string banjo neck lets me use my banjo fingering; http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/t...IC_ID=158889John Piper
asandwho - Posted - 11/16/2009: 15:10:08
If you have some $, this would be a solution without messing with a banjo. Go to http://www.cbguitars.com and click on the "Git-jo" link. I would dump my banjola and dojo in a second for one of these.
Edited by - asandwho on 11/16/2009 15:15:00
Jim D - Posted - 11/16/2009: 15:20:53
I found that the Fred Kelly "Freedom" picks gave me a sound that was much more guitar-like than banjo-like. Of course my banjos are set up for an "old time" sound, so they were perhaps more muted than the typical bluegrass banjoist would care for.
Jim
Linwood, N.C.
eagleisland - Posted - 11/16/2009: 15:34:49
Second vote for the banjola. Quiet, lovely sound. You can play that when she's in the house. Play the hoss when she goes out.
Tell her that banjolas make lovely Christmas gifts! 8->
eagleisland
"I was halfway to Old Kentucky when the drugs began to kick in." - Hunter S. Monroe
mike gregory - Posted - 11/16/2009: 15:54:14
I will be happy to sell you a handmade, sixteen-inch head "cello" banjo.
Since it's tuned an octave lower than the Bluegrass banjo, and is not INTENDED to put out crisp, quick rolls, it will sound as little as possible like a banjo.
Shall I send you an MP3?
Meanwhile, consider the price: $180 plus shipping. Hardshell case.
=):{ )
Mike Gregory, Banjo Maker Infraordinaire
When I say my instruments are as good as anything Gibson or Martin ever made,
I mean MEL Gibson and DEAN Martin!
My banjos can be seen on my own website
http://littlebanjos.lunare.net
See me & my SQUARED EEL banjo on the Y'all tube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97EfvhFgRBY
Edited by - mike gregory on 11/16/2009 15:55:57
RaYhOLio - Posted - 11/16/2009: 16:00:26
You need a tranjocaster www.electricbanjo.com..
nuthin' banjo about this other than 5 strings and a banjo tuning.. It's basically an electric guiter... and I'd love to have one too! :)
-RayHoLiO
Makin' grass grow in Joplin, MO
www.joplingreenscape.com
Want a bail out plan that actually works??
www.fairtax.org
meatmissle - Posted - 11/16/2009: 16:01:54
3rd vote for banjola. Other more non-banjo like banjos; meteor or crossfire (both electric).
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If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see
Our life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, simplify.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes.
Ottawa - Posted - 11/16/2009: 16:29:24
4th for banjola- check out the sound samples here: http://www.banjolas.com/
Edward and also Goldtone make banjolas
Steven
Edited by - Ottawa on 11/16/2009 16:31:37
plunka5 - Posted - 11/16/2009: 18:02:40
try using clothes pins on either end of the bridge for a quick and cheap home remedy!
"do you have room in your heart for the five-string banjo?"
John Hartford
scooter46 - Posted - 11/16/2009: 18:03:58
Dan Pennington has a metal body reso for sale in the classifieds. Larry
Learning a new skill takes time, patience and practice. Also it is very important to stay hydrated
meatmissle - Posted - 11/16/2009: 18:59:55
I might be interested in hearing a sound clip from that link that jims38134 put up. Could be an interesting instrument
-----------------------------------------------
If you would convince a man that he does wrong, do right. But do not care to convince him. Men will believe what they see. Let them see
Our life is frittered away by detail. Simplify, simplify.
Beware of all enterprises that require new clothes.
Dan Pennington - Posted - 11/16/2009: 21:14:55
A wood top banjo has a sound very much like a dulcimer. Could we be married to the same woman? My wife also dislikes the banjo sound and likes my guitar playing a lot more.
Take a listen to my sound sample of my wood top banjo on my home page music - Whiskey Before Breakfast:
http://www.banjohangout.org/myhango....asp?id=5299
Dan in Minneapolis
"The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing; if you can fake that, you've got it made."
Groucho Marx
RG - Posted - 11/17/2009: 00:53:39
Zither banjo...
******************************************************
"It's a league game Smokey..."
fynger - Posted - 11/17/2009: 01:28:19
Use a 'mute'
Kev.
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Have you hugged your Banjo today ?
Thor - Posted - 11/17/2009: 03:17:57
I'm not sure why you say "I do not want to use a mute".
I use a Wright Tone enhancer/mute:
http://www.janetdavismusic.com/mutes.html
Depending on where you position it, you can get a nice range of sounds from any banjo.
jpiperson2002 - Posted - 11/17/2009: 04:33:21
quote:
Originally posted by Thor
I'm not sure why you say "I do not want to use a mute".
I use a Wright Tone enhancer/mute:
http://www.janetdavismusic.com/mutes.html
Depending on where you position it, you can get a nice range of sounds from any banjo.
I guess it boils down to the question of whether to buy a separate instrument like a banjola or whether to modify a banjo to give a different sound. The different styles of mutes change the sound more dramatically and easily than than changing out the strings or bridge or head tension. A mute and a small towel or sponge in the pot you can remove most of the reverberation of the head which characterizes the banjo sound. There are so many ideas posted on how to mute the sound of a banjo that it's just a matter of trying some of them in combination until an acceptable sound emerges. John Piper
Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/17/2009: 06:41:58
Migobegi,
You´re young - don´t think about a replacement or an upgrade of your banjo - if you like the banjo and its sound - think about a replacement or an upgrade of your wife instead.
Kindly regards
Polle
PS!
A general advice - never let the woman in your life decide, where your beloved Hi-Fi loudspeakers or mega-flatscreen TV should be placed in your living room - and never let her have an impact on your choice of instrument and/or playing.
LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Greg Connor - Posted - 11/17/2009: 06:54:51
I think Wild Jimbo has the right idea. You might be better off finding an istrument that produces the sound you want rather than trying to convert a banjo in something else.
I'll just mention that my wife made me something that I affectionately call the "Happy Home Banjo Muffler" It's basically a 1 inch piece of foam rubber cut in a circle and stuffed inside the banjo. It's cheap and it can quiet my Deering Golden Era down to almost nothing.
She covered mine with blue jean material, but you could just stuff a piece in plain too. I noticed that a flannel shirt or a stocking cap work pretty good too.
Good Luck
I just noticed the post right above me from Polle. You know...... he might be on to something!
Edited by - Greg Connor on 11/17/2009 06:59:24
steve davis - Posted - 11/17/2009: 06:56:57
You could solve your problem with one simple question.
Just ask your wife what instrument she would prefer you play.
geraldboz - Posted - 11/18/2009: 00:45:50
You could get a new wife............Na, don't do that, I did it once and the second one complains about the noise more than the first one did!! Hey what about a deaf wife? Hmmmm. Just kidding!
mwc9725e - Posted - 11/18/2009: 04:42:12
I have an old wood pot with no name, but obviously quite old. It's married to a Fullerton ( China? ) neck. It has what looks to be just a run-of-the-mill maple/ebony bridge on it, light gauge steel strings, and it really has a nice "harp" kind of sound. Don't know why. It does have an old real skin head on it, and maybe that has something to do with it. It also has what I'd call ( probably erroneously ) a wooden tone ring sitting on top of the pot. Whatever the reason, it's much "sweeter" sounding than the typical banjo. I wish I knew who made the pot and tone ring, but I guess that's not possible, there are no identifying marks at all on it.
asandwho - Posted - 11/18/2009: 04:51:12
You can try Mike's Banjo Mute as well. In classified here. They have received really nice reviews.
steve davis - Posted - 11/18/2009: 04:54:33
Have a luthier set up the banjo for strong bass and brilliant highs and
then undo all his good work.
That should do it.
fiddlebuster - Posted - 11/18/2009: 05:19:46
Get a Banjola
The way I see it, the Good Lord made us all, and if we're good enough for him, we ought to be good enough for each other. Jed Clampett
Kenneth Logsdon - Posted - 11/18/2009: 15:39:06
The question (as hinted at above) is self defeated.. If you don't want it to sound like a banjo.. Then get something else..
rottenwood - Posted - 11/18/2009: 16:15:37
quote-
"The question (as hinted at above) is self defeated.. If you don't want it to sound like a banjo.. Then get something else.."
A self defeated question is more like "what color are my blue suede shoes" the man wants to be able to practice at home with something that plays like a banjo, but sounds better and doesn't piss off his wife. also I'm pretty sure that there are historical examples of wood top banjos going back a long way. here are some newer videos for your viewing pleasure-
Winnipeg Woodtop with resonator
www.youtube.com/watch?v=64dqrBogH2U
a new prototype: Winnipeg Woodtop Piccolo 5string
www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoMqKts35nc
rottenwood - Posted - 11/19/2009: 06:05:12
thanks Thor!
steve davis - Posted - 11/19/2009: 06:30:37
I used to live in an apartment building in Providence RI.I practiced on a restrung electric guitar unplugged.Sad days.
migobegi - Posted - 11/19/2009: 08:23:16
quote:
Originally posted by rottenwood
quote-
"The question (as hinted at above) is self defeated.. If you don't want it to sound like a banjo.. Then get something else.."
A self defeated question is more like "what color are my blue suede shoes" the man wants to be able to practice at home with something that plays like a banjo, but sounds better and doesn't piss off his wife.
I love the banjo and playing it. I have learned to play the guitar to some degree - I personally do not get excited by playing it (or the idea of playing other instruments) which is why I moved to the banjo. One additional bit of info: I still want something of a banjo sound. I simply want something that is sweeter. Thanks to everyone who took the time to understand what my goals were and helped. There is some great information in this post. I really like the ideas about alternatives that play like a banjo and sound like another instrument, the modification suggestions, and the even the information on mutes! Many helpful and considerate posters, that's why I love the hangout. Thanks again.
Edited by - migobegi on 11/19/2009 12:54:37
goldtopia - Posted - 11/19/2009: 09:36:03
I use a violin mute. It makes a beautiful mellow sound. good for accompanying soft songs and finger style guitar.
pearcemusic - Posted - 11/19/2009: 10:06:21
I've been experimenting with this for a few years ...
I've been more satisfied by taking a normal OM Martin style guitar ... and string it like a 5 string banjo ... no 6th string ... putting spikes at 2, 5, 7, 9 etc ....
there are fewer available frets .. so the range is limited, but the sound is great ... unique and guitar/banjo esque
fynger - Posted - 11/19/2009: 11:01:35
The mute i have, i made myself....fits over the top of the bridge, like 2 wooden combs stuck together. Totally changes the sound and volume.
steve davis - Posted - 11/19/2009: 13:46:52
I have taken off the low A and E strings on a guitar,put a rr spike behind the
5th fret where the A string would be and put a .010 string there pinned under the spike.
Plays like a banjo...sounds like a guitar.
When you string it back to a guitar there is just a tiny hole in the board
where the spike used to be.
doc fossey - Posted - 11/19/2009: 13:57:37
My company sells a full sized flat top acoustic guitar that plays in identical fashion to a 5 string banjo. It's not a banjola, as it has a full sized guitar body with double cutouts. Check it out at www.docfossey.com. It has a guitar sound that is not as loud and penetrating as my banjo, but I can play banjo tunes on it and they sound great. Late night practice on banjo tab is now permitted in my house when I play it on the guitar.
Doc Fossey
vintagewells - Posted - 11/19/2009: 13:58:01
Before you go off and look for a banjo that doesn't sound like one, look at the banjo you have. Is it one you want to keep forever....obviously not, since you are planning on getting another.
You don't say what kind it is or whether it has a resonator, or anything else about it. But let me assume it is not a Gibson Granada or a very costly 'jo, but an entry level one.
Use this one to modify to one that sounds like a guitar that your wife will like. Save up the money for one that sounds like the mighty fine banjo that you like.
To do this change to a hide head that isn't overly tightened, nylon strings, remove the resonator, tune it a little low unless you play with others.
It isn't difficult, and s=doesn't cost a lot, neither does it require doing anything to the banjo that can't be undone.
If it has a tone ring that might present problems so you might as well send the banjo to me as I don't have a banjo with a tone ring yet...
This is how Banjo Acquisition Syndrome starts.
I really think that you need to look at how much you like the sound of a banjo before you convert completely....
lorna
pearcemusic - Posted - 11/20/2009: 06:17:05
quote:
Originally posted by doc fossey
My company sells a full sized flat top acoustic guitar that plays in identical fashion to a 5 string banjo. It's not a banjola, as it has a full sized guitar body with double cutouts. Check it out at www.docfossey.com. It has a guitar sound that is not as loud and penetrating as my banjo, but I can play banjo tunes on it and they sound great. Late night practice on banjo tab is now permitted in my house when I play it on the guitar.
Doc Fossey
hey Doc ... I'm having a hard time getting your site's image page to load .. ... post or link some pics to the bho?
The Old Timer - Posted - 11/20/2009: 08:17:50
I tried this trick when I was a teenager, just to see what would happen. You make like it.
Put a popsicle stick underneath the bridge feet. Adds tons of sustain almost like a Dobro-banjo, without being as metallic.
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