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AJA - Posted - 11/14/2009: 09:04:29
I have been stewing about this for a day now, and feel like getting it off of my chest. I hope this doesn't violate any BanjoHangout rules.
Yesterday, the school at which I teach held a pep rally for our big rivalry game. Because we have a small gym, the adminstration distributed tickets to non-students who wanted to attend. It was the intention of the administration that only parents and family of seniors receive tickets, but as I understand it, that was not written on the tickets.
One of our graduates, and a former player, arrived with a ticket. He was wearing his U.S. Army uniform. He has completed boot camp and today he leaves for Ft. Lewis, WA. He was turned away and not allowed to enter the pep rally because he was not "family of a senior." There WERE other exceptions made, but not for this young man. Someone had thought enough of him to give him one of their tickets, but that apparently wasn't good enough to get him in.
When I complained to the administrator on duty that a soldier, in uniform, with a ticket was turned away, he refused to talk to me and told me that I did not understand "the demographics of the situation."
He's right. I don't understand.
Andy
www.sciencegeek.net
Lumpy - Posted - 11/14/2009: 09:17:02
Now this 20-yr vet is angry with you, Andy. It brings memories of how our Nam vets were treated when they returned. I guess the fools at your school think their freedoms came magically in a bottle.
Lumpy
Gold Tone OB-250G
"So much music, such little time."
mike gregory - Posted - 11/14/2009: 09:33:44
I cannot imagine telling somebody
"You're invited to DIE for us; you are not invited to watch us ENJOY ourselves!"
What other, less nasty message might the school admin be trying to send?
just recently, I got an e-mail, claiming to be true.
I haven't fact-checked it, but here goes:
A high school teacher had all the desks removed.
The kids came in, and stood. The teacher asked them if anybody could tell her how they got the right to sit at a desk.
The kids took a few guesses, none right.
She proceeded to run the morning''s lessons.
And then, in the afternoon, the desks were carried back in, 29 of them, one at a time, by 29 men and women in uniform.
They each put down a desk, and stood silently against the walls, until the desks were all back where they belonged.
The teacher explained that the right to the desk, and the education, was given, granted, protected by these people.
Too bad it didn't get e-mailed to your school admin in time for the game.
EDIT EDIT EDIT
http://www.snopes.com/glurge/nodesks.asp
Snopes says it's a true story.
Edited by - mike gregory on 11/14/2009 19:58:39
Nancy - Posted - 11/14/2009: 10:01:52
This should be written to the local paper to tell the citizens what has happened. It's just not right. No way.
Nancy
We Create Our Tomorrows by what we dream today.
gottasmilealot - Posted - 11/14/2009: 10:16:31
Time to visit a school board meeting and make a public comment.
Keith
edweber - Posted - 11/14/2009: 10:16:38
quote:
When I complained to the administrator on duty that a soldier, in uniform, with a ticket was turned away, he refused to talk to me and told me that I did not understand "the demographics of the situation."
He's right. I don't understand.
Andy
www.sciencegeek.net
I'm guessing you do understand the demographics of the situation. Andy, I know I do. Sadly this kind of thing happens all too often. I'm sorry the young soldier had to experience the hurtful actions of this administrator and unfortunately it's just one instance in a long line of bovine scatology he will have to contend with. The next time you happen to get in touch with the former graduate please reassure him there is a LOT of support for him as well as gratefulness in his chosen endeavors and hopefully it will offset the other. Ed Regular Guy says, "Nuffs enuff" www.customscrimshaw.comEmail: edweber@customscrimshaw.com
jbanjoist - Posted - 11/14/2009: 10:18:53
Speechless here. Totally speechless...........
Jbanjoist
I'm a NECHVILLIAN!
EDUMACATE YOSEF!
You don't know until you KNOW.
Post unto others as you would have them post unto you.
pandjlocke - Posted - 11/14/2009: 10:27:19
I don't understand either, Andy. perhaps this administrator yahoo could explain it to all of us.
Beware of the urgent crowding out the important - C.E. Hummel
Paddy
Nosferatu - Posted - 11/14/2009: 10:29:40
Dirty word with a political comment.
Thank you,
"Count" Hugh
"I bent over him, and tried to find any sign of life, but in vain." -- Jonathan Harker, Dracula
KE - Posted - 11/14/2009: 10:33:56
When I flew last week from STL to DFW, soldiers in uniform boarded first. I didn't notice anyone who felt it was a matter of demographics.
Keith is right, a comment to the school board is in order. I know as a member of a school board that I'd prefer to hear about your grievance.
banjoplyr. - Posted - 11/14/2009: 10:45:45
What a shame,this person that gave up his or her ticket so this soldier could get in ,is awesome.the person that wouldn't let the soldier in should have been Escorded from the school .and turned into the School Board.
Roger
htt://www.banjolounge.com
RS bridges
pandjlocke - Posted - 11/14/2009: 10:51:53
"Don't understand the demographics of the situation". Has anybody noticed that in America people who have been given even the slightest amount of authority talk like that? What does that mean? It's jus a bunch of big words strung together that have no correlation with each other, thereby making the entire statement meaningless in an attempt to make the speaker sound intelligent and authoritative. IMO (notice I left the "H" out) it just makes the speaker sound like an idiot. Communication really depends on simplicity. The above statement is just skirting around the need for a real explanation.
Beware of the urgent crowding out the important - C.E. Hummel
Paddy
mogultx - Posted - 11/14/2009: 10:58:45
I can think of NO situation where any uniformed member of the armed services should be denied access to a community function.... I just do not understand why it is that the service person would not be granted the ame courtesy that ANY other member of society would be granted. Tell the administrators that they made a HUGE error in judgement- and need to re-evaluate their position.
It USED to be that a uniformed service person who showed up at a theater or other entertainment venue, was given a discounted or free admission and was honored for their service to their nation... they certainly do not get well paid for their service. The least we can do is let them know that they are still loved and respected in their communities and welcomed by those that they are serving!!
IMO
Monty
noli illegitimi carborundum (stolen from DAT)
dbaty - Posted - 11/14/2009: 11:34:50
Do we live in a nation that has lost all common sense? I'm so sick of this type of garbage. As a 20 year Vet I'm mad as you know what!!
Like a Dog, a Banjo just wants to be played with and cared for.
kyblugrass - Posted - 11/14/2009: 12:08:08
As a 18yr vet and a father of a Marine, it makes me sick the way some areas treat the military.
Scott
“You Can Hang a Sign on a Pig Saying It's a Horse...But It’s Still Just a Pig.”
heyjude - Posted - 11/14/2009: 12:18:25
I'm wondering, was the young man turned away or was the uniform turned away? If he has showed up in civilian clothes would anyone have questioned his ticket? Strange. I don't know.
There's no draft anymore so to me the military is a job. He was off duty so why wear the uniform to a high school function? If he had got training as a fireman or policeman or nurse would he feel the need to wear a uniform? It's not a costume, it's a uniform that's worn when you're required to wear it.
I couldn't wait to get out of mine when I was home on leave. I wore it with pride but I didn't flaunt it.
I think there's more to this than meets the eye.
Jude
"Man can not live by bread alone, he must have peanut butter" - Kruger Bear
"Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass...
It's about learning to dance in the rain." - Kruger Bear
R Buck - Posted - 11/14/2009: 12:30:41
As a Vietnam era vet, I can relate to this story. Whether or not you agree with the principle of war, every vet deserves our respect. Of course there may be more to the story but...
RobBob
Music; the best way to count time. It is a journey not a destination.
www.blueridgerounders.com
BC Bill - Posted - 11/14/2009: 12:49:38
Hmmmm, everyone has assumed, without any evidence provided, that he was turned away because he was in uniform. Perhaps that is entirely untrue? Before I get apoplexy, I would try to find out what really happened.
Bill
email me at lakesidestudio@shaw.ca
pandjlocke - Posted - 11/14/2009: 13:15:21
I don't think anyone said that he was turned away BECAUSE he was in uniform. I think the problem is that he should have been allowed in because he was in uniform. That's quite a different thing.
Beware of the urgent crowding out the important - C.E. Hummel
Paddy
AJA - Posted - 11/14/2009: 13:17:07
Let me make this clear - the uniform is not why he was turned away. He had been on campus, in uniform, earlier in the week with the local Army recruiter.
He was turned away because some of the adminstrators were enforcing the "parents and family of seniors only" rule. However, exceptions had already been made for others who did not fit the "parents and family of seniors" description.
The administration had the right to refuse him entry. I simply don't believe that "having the right" and "doing the right thing" are always one and the same thing.
Later in the day, an administrator tried to placate me by saying that "Homecoming is when we welcome back all of the grads. He would have been welcome at the homecoming rally." Unfortunately for him, he was in boot camp at that time.
I do know that the uniform is not a costume. Many of our schools are focused so much on preparing kids for college that we lose site of a lot of our student body. This was a young man who was not going to college. But when you saw him wearing that uniform, there was no less pride than if he had just won a Nobel prize. A LOT of our kids take that opportunity to come back when they earn that uniform.
I think that my bottom line is this: The same people who live by the rules that excluded him from the assembly would be out in front of the cameras if something happened to him in service to our country.
I didn't mean to drag this out. Sorry.
Andy
www.sciencegeek.net
10gauge - Posted - 11/14/2009: 13:44:23
I can think of a reason why the soldier wouldn't be admitted and it wouldn't be broadcast as to why he wasn't admitted. One shouldn't judge a situation until they are fully informed. By your own admission you don't know the real reason the soldier wasn't admitted. I'd be willing to bet that it wasn't because he was a soldier, but then I'm not fully informed so I can't judge. It does give me a warm fuzzy feeling that there are folks out there like you AJA that care about our servicemen and want to see them cared for. I hope the school administration had a d n good reason not to let him in.
Jonathan O'bug
jbanjoist - Posted - 11/14/2009: 14:20:39
Don't be sorry Andy. Your heart is in the right place.
Nothing wrong with it at all.
When the admin refused to politely explain that tells me all I need to know about his character.
Jbanjoist
I'm a NECHVILLIAN!
EDUMACATE YOSEF!
You don't know until you KNOW.
Post unto others as you would have them post unto you.
rendesvous1840 - Posted - 11/14/2009: 15:29:28
Seems an odd time for an "Administrator" to make a "statement"- 2 days after Veterans Day. Wonder what the Rat  $@%# meant by it? If someone gave him a ticket meant for family members, he must have been considered very close to that student/family. I guess it only takes a villiage to raise a child in certain villiages. If I knew the name of the school, I would send the link to this topic to the school board and ask for a better explanation than "Demographics".
Paul
"A master banjo player isn't the one who can play the most notes. It's the one who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello
http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/t...IC_ID=128303 IBARD topic
http://ibard-rendesvous1840.blogspot.com/
mike gregory - Posted - 11/14/2009: 16:07:43
Limited seating. Room is allowed by national building safety codes to hold no more than X number of people.
Print up X number of tickets.
And if some person in the "parents and family of seniors only"group wishes to sell, trade, or give a ticket to some other person, even if it's a paroled felon, banjo picker, or other undesirable element, the ticket is the ticket, and it is good for admission.
No exceptions for the seniors' Best Friend Forever, senior's mom's boyfriend, senior's pregnant unwed and non-senior girlfriends, but if the child has been born, it MAY be given a ticket, as the child of a senior, i.e. a family member.
And if a soldier offers to buy the ticket from the child, its mother has the right, as legal guardian OF that child, to sell that ticket to the soldier.
The ticket is the ticket, and who HATH a ticket, getteth in.
As long as the number of people does not exceed the legal capacity for the venue, and as long as nobody gets in without a ticket, that's as fair as it has to be.
Pandjlocke, in MY opinion, YOUR opinion should have been labeled
IMVAO
In my very accurate opinion.
Being neither a soldier nor a school admin nor a person who really REALLY wanted to sit through that event, I really have no authority to speak on the subject.
amerz - Posted - 11/14/2009: 20:35:26
I bet they would have let him in columbine high school... I know a vet who hates going out in uniform because he gets so embarrassed by so much special treatment, ha can't walk into a bar without having drinks bought for him! I guess we're doing ok in my town- I think AJA said it best "having the right" and "doing the right thing"- Like the burger king where an employee kicked out a customer who broke stores policy by not wearing shoes. It was a 6 month old baby. An argument ensued, the employee threatened to call police.
http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...for_not.html
brokenstrings - Posted - 11/14/2009: 20:35:58
Andy, I don't understand either. Sounds like a lot of hooey.
Jessy
Frailaway, ladies, frailaway!
Banjoitus - Posted - 11/14/2009: 21:04:43
If he chose to wear his uniform, I don't see how he would need to apologize for doing so. We are on a looney cycyle right now, when the stuff hits the fan, they'll all be saluting, bowing, and scraping. They always do.
mike gregory - Posted - 11/14/2009: 21:12:06
Oh, it's Tommy this, and Tommy that,
And Tommy, kiss me foot!
But it's "Kindly,Mr. Atkins",
When the guns begin to shoot.
-Kipling-
dingo - Posted - 11/15/2009: 07:04:22
I remember when there was a time that a military man was proud to where a uniform, and wore it most of the time. Expecially at war time. I was making a comment the other day that nobody wheres a dress uniform anymore. When my Dad was in Korea, he always wore his dress uniform when he came home. Along with all my Uncles, and the other military men in our area. Same for vietnam vets. All the time I was at Fort Hood, I never saw a person in dress.
But on the subject, there should of been only X number of tickets, and if he got one given to him, it should of been his. It can't be that difficult giving out tickets.
Jill
What Happens in the Corn Field, Stays in the Corn Field.
O.D. - Posted - 11/15/2009: 07:55:14
This is just another example of how far this country has strayed from the values and morals that were once well respected .
They have been replaced by greed and political correctness.
Later , O.D.
www.oxforddepot.net
www.cdbaby.com/cd/edackerly
minstrelmike - Posted - 11/15/2009: 08:24:56
1. A uniform should not be a free pass to anyplace. I can go rent one for $20. Check for ID at least.
2. Schools have an interest in protecting their students from non-students. That's why they make rules and enforce them.
3. If a person makes up a policy or was involved in making the policy, s/he has more confidence in allowing an exception than someone who was given the list of rules to enforce and does not take any initiative to change the rules because they think duty and honor means following the rules and enforcing the laws presented without exception.
You know, kind of like what soldiers are supposed to do.
I also would be offended initially, but would then wonder which thing ought to be changed--the rule or the desire of society for the rule or the desire of society for complete obeisance to rules (remembering George Washington was a terrorist general before he became President of a new nation).
Thus ends my vent.
Mike Moxcey
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html
Edited by - minstrelmike on 11/15/2009 08:30:50
pastyman - Posted - 11/15/2009: 08:43:26
well im gutted for the serviceman that has been involved in this situation but at least in the usa your service personel are on the whole respected by the majority of the people in the country, over here in the uk we are not allowed to wear uniform in public, we get no special service anywhere and there have been cases where people in uniform have been spat on and attacked
im proud of what i do for a living but dispise the fact that i have to hide it
per mare per terram
mike gregory - Posted - 11/15/2009: 08:49:57
I do not disagree with Mr. Moxcey.
A uniform is not a ticket to anything.
I am willing to bet MY life that the uniform in this so-called "informational video" is absolutely phony,
even though the basic garments were originally Military Issue.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkt2cAJSigI
My point is that a person with a ticket to an event should be admitted to the event, unless the ticket is specifically marked as non-transferable.
AJA - Posted - 11/15/2009: 09:12:53
quote:
Originally posted by minstrelmike
1. A uniform should not be a free pass to anyplace. I can go rent one for $20. Check for ID at least.
The young man was known to all of the people at the gate. He graduated from our school. His mother teaches at our school. His character is not in question. Pastyman - its incomprehensible to me that a military that seventy years ago held off fascism on its own for years can no longer wear the uniform in public. That is a geniune outrage. Andy www.sciencegeek.net
Edited by - AJA on 11/15/2009 09:24:19
Aonach - Posted - 11/15/2009: 10:27:45
I know this is going to sound pedantic Andy but it wasn't American servicemen that held off Facism alone-our ill equipped and outnumbered soldier's managed to stop Hitler from conquering Europe till we got helped by all our allies especially the American troop's who arrived two years into the war....My grandfather was fighting a desperate fight against German troops in 1939 in France... And we couldn't of won on our own but we would of been alone if Japan hadn't attacked Pearl Harbour... No offence intended I just felt the need to remind you-Andy
Nosferatu - Posted - 11/15/2009: 10:49:27
Aonach:
You mean that slow retreat across Europe was stopping Hitler? It wasn't until the Americans showed up and started pushing back that the war changed.
Thank you,
"Count" Hugh
"I bent over him, and tried to find any sign of life, but in vain." -- Jonathan Harker, Dracula
Aonach - Posted - 11/15/2009: 10:51:22
Erm-I'v just realised I misread the text and have thus made what we call over here "an arse of myself"...Apologies all round! In fact i offer not just apologies but humble apologies!-Andy.
P.s-Pastyman-Do you really hide your profession?-Why?-National pride and respect for the Armed forces is without a doubt far more on show than the few people who sometimes make idiots of themselves and wave a few banners when the troops march.....
Nosferatu - Posted - 11/15/2009: 10:52:44
AJA:
I have a feeling the the fellow at the gate was one of those people who, "Support the troops and not the war."
Thank you,
"Count" Hugh
"I bent over him, and tried to find any sign of life, but in vain." -- Jonathan Harker, Dracula
dmiller - Posted - 11/16/2009: 00:23:41
quote:
Originally posted by Nosferatu
AJA:
I have a feeling the the fellow at the gate was one of those people who, "Support the troops and not the war."
Thank you,
"Count" Hugh
Hugh "nailed" it.  ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ 
banjoy - Posted - 11/16/2009: 02:12:10
quote:
Originally posted by AJA
...When I complained to the administrator on duty that a soldier, in uniform, with a ticket was turned away, he refused to talk to me and told me that I did not understand "the demographics of the situation."
He's right. I don't understand...
"Demographics of the situation." What in the heck does that mean??I'm kind of stooopid so I went to dictionary.com. Here is what this person meant to say, I think: "You don't understand the statistical data of a population, esp. those showing average age, income, education, etc. as it acts upon the state of affairs or combination of circumstances..."...or... "You don't understand a single vital or social statistic of a human population as it pertains to the aggregate of biological, psychological, and sociocultural factors acting on an individual or group to condition behavioral patterns..."....okay.... Now that's better... I think. But, what in the heck does that mean??The solider is like, what, 18 years old? Probably one year out of high school? If as the poster says, this person was known to the gatekeeper, his mom worked at the school and his character was not in question, it sounds to me like someone having power over the situation and choosing to exercise that power, then deferring to "the rules" as if "it's not me, it's the rules." Small people with large egos or an inflated self-importance who are trying to fill big shoes, often do that. Exercising power and authority makes 'em feel big and important. I mean, the administrator had power over a military uniform after all. Wow, that's mighty important, huh? I'll bet the administrator patted himself on the back for doing a great job and smirked himself to sleep that night. Would they have allowed him in had he not been in uniform? I think the administrator was not making any statement or taking any position on the uniform so much; I think it's more a matter of having the power and flaunting the authority. It made him feel good. Why print tickets at all then? Whatever. It was a petty, puny, small thing to do, in my opinion. --Frank 
Edited by - banjoy on 11/16/2009 03:33:19
Louisiana Rose - Posted - 11/16/2009: 03:16:56
Disgraceful!!!!!!!!!!
If you are gonna be out of date, do it right
Louisiana Rose - Posted - 11/16/2009: 03:48:24
quote:
Originally posted by AJA
quote:
Originally posted by minstrelmike
1. A uniform should not be a free pass to anyplace. I can go rent one for $20. Check for ID at least.
The young man was known to all of the people at the gate. He graduated from our school. His mother teaches at our school. His character is not in question.
Pastyman - its incomprehensible to me that a military that seventy years ago held off fascism on its own for years can no longer wear the uniform in public. That is a geniune outrage.
Andy
www.sciencegeek.net
It is not that soldiers are not allowed to wear uniform in public it is just that it simply not safe in some cases for them to do so, especially with the recent situations in Northern Ireland and other attacks on them from people who have no respect for the courage of these soldiers and what they do for our Country If you are gonna be out of date, do it right
Andy K - Posted - 11/16/2009: 04:33:08
Maybe the kid was a jerk in HS and had been disrespectful during these types of events in the past. Maybe his ex-girlfriend was inside and she has a restraining order against him, maybe the guy who stole his girlfriend was inside. I don't know and neither do any of you. You say the people at the door knew him and I am sure the reason he was denied access was not the uniform but the character of the kid. Just because he is in uniform does not make him a nice person. Many people entered the military due to trouble with the law. The uniform issue was never stated as the reason by the administration, it was assumed by the original poster.
banjoy - Posted - 11/16/2009: 09:36:48
quote:
Originally posted by Andy K (heavily edited)
Maybe the kid was a jerk... Maybe his ex-girlfriend was inside and she has a restraining order against him... maybe the guy who stole his girlfriend was inside. I don't know and neither do any of you.... Just because he is in uniform does not make him a nice person.
Maybe, maybe, maybe. And here's what the original poster said (also heavily edited) quote:
Originally posted by AJA
...the school at which I teach held a pep rally...
...One of our graduates, and a former player, arrived with a ticket....
And again a few posts later: quote:
Originally posted by AJA
The young man was known to all of the people at the gate. He graduated from our school. His mother teaches at our school. His character is not in question.
So what you're saying is, only a nice person with a ticket is allowed in? Not nice people, stay away. So if you're a jerk in high school you're not welcome? So a lot of "maybes" and "what-ifs" seem to get trumped by someone who works there, who was there, and who knows the individuals involved. That's all I was responding to. You're correct though and your point is well taken. Only those who were there really know the character of the person who was turned away, and the character of who did the turning away. Never mind the poster witnessed the event and apparently is vouching for the character of the person. I guess I just read that into the conversation. My bad. Maybe he could also have been a crazed lunatic ready to blow things up, the next unabomber. We just don't know. I mean just the other day a military person went berserk, right? Maybe there was an Islamic student inside who may be offended? Maybe maybe maybe. Maybe the administrator is a bully and the person who got turned away is gay. Maybe. If the poster didn't "understand the demographics of the situation" how can any of us presume to, then? You're right. We don't know anything. The poster could be a horrible person with a personal vendetta and is just using the hangout to bash someone. Maybe. We just don't know. Maybe martians have sucked their brains out and replaced it with oatmeal. We just don't know. I withdraw everything I said. Throw the bum to the wolves. Unless he can prove he's a nice guy after all, then it's okay. I mean not okay. Oh heck I don't know what to think now. Never mind. --F
Edited by - banjoy on 11/16/2009 09:51:38
Nosferatu - Posted - 11/16/2009: 10:04:15
Yes in deedie Banjoy...Yes in deed.
I think it's a joke the those that have never worn the uniform are the first to tell us what the Soldier thinks.
Thank you,
"Count" Hugh
"I bent over him, and tried to find any sign of life, but in vain." -- Jonathan Harker, Dracula
Edited by - Nosferatu on 11/16/2009 10:06:47
Andy K - Posted - 11/16/2009: 10:13:55
Banjoy,
I am not trying to bash anyone. My wife is a school administrator and unfortunately part of the job is knowing which people should not be together. Messy divorce, custody battles that sort of thing. I am just suggesting that the administrator knew letting this guy in could be a potential problem, even if the trouble would be started by another person already inside. I do hope I am correct and the guy was not denied entry because of his uniform. That would be wrong.
Andy
kyblugrass - Posted - 11/16/2009: 10:21:26
quote:
Originally posted by Nosferatu
Yes in deedie Banjoy...Yes in deed.
I think it's a joke the those that have never worn the uniform are the first to tell us what the Soldier thinks.
Thank you,
"Count" Hugh
"I bent over him, and tried to find any sign of life, but in vain." -- Jonathan Harker, Dracula
Outstanding and spot on!! Scott “You Can Hang a Sign on a Pig Saying It's a Horse...But It’s Still Just a Pig.”
Nosferatu - Posted - 11/16/2009: 10:25:23
Andy, there's just something about this that sounds like someone gettting their jollys from pushing a Soldier around.
Thank you,
"Count" Hugh
"I bent over him, and tried to find any sign of life, but in vain." -- Jonathan Harker, Dracula
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