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banjobilly32 - Posted - 11/14/2009: 05:10:34
I had one of those years ago. I never could make it sound like a banjo should. I think I sold it for $200. Nothing special about it just a laminated rim and a brass hoop for a tone ring. Good luck on fetching that price needing work!!
dlottbanjo - Posted - 11/14/2009: 09:44:03
my uncle has one ( tenor ) and i will see if he will sell it,how much would you be willing to pay?
Donnie
www.palmettoramblers.com
jims38134 - Posted - 11/14/2009: 11:19:48
Trade markings similar to a Serenader (sn 40332) that was discussed at one point.
Jim
beezaboy - Posted - 11/14/2009: 11:38:53
Donnie:
Here is one at Vintage Fret Shop I was tempted to order
but it doesn't have the pearloid board so I checked myself.
Fret Shop's price of $450 is okay with me or some more or
some less depending on condition and originality of your
uncle's Belmont.
http://www.vintagefret.com/pages/13200.html
Let me know what he decides,
Beezaboy
Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/15/2009: 03:06:37
John,
My poor memory tells me, that the vast majority of Belmontīs, that Iīve seen over the years, do not have Pyralin coverings on fretboard and resonator back.
Regards
Polle
PS!
Why on earth will you want a Belmont?
beezaboy - Posted - 11/15/2009: 04:35:12
Why on earth will you want a Belmont?
Polle
Polle: I am a masochist it appears and am collecting an example
of each of the Gretsch/Bacon tenors that were made in Brooklyn, N.Y.
I cannot afford a Swinger like yours or the Special but I am working
on the mainstream models and now have amassed a transistional
Seville (SN 35656 - 1939); Senorita (SN 116 - 1950?);
Serenader (SN 3107 - 1952/54); Symphonie (SN 26020 - 1957?).
I need a pearloid Belmont and a Ne Plus Ultra. Collecting Gretsch/
Bacons is like collecting stamps when you're trying to fill a blank
space in the album..they are hard enough to find to make the
hunt worthwhile but reasonably available to keep up interest when
one is found now and again. Unfortunately, they don't sound very good. 
Beezaboy
Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/15/2009: 06:32:51
John,
I do know your "desire" somehow - and I like the stamp comparison. Old stamps are also useless - LOL!
An advice - donīt go for a Gretsch built Symphonie NPU - they are extremely poorly built and often the prices are almost as high as for a high grade prewar Silver Bell.
Feel free having a poster made instead - on basis of the pics at my site: http://www.acoustudio.dk/Bacon%20Sy...a%20195X.htm
BTW - your Seville is NOT a transitional banjo - itīs a genuine Groton built B&D. Ed Britt and I - as leading experts - LOL! - have decided, that thereīre no transitionals at all - B&D/Baconīs are either Grotonīs or Gretschīs! Sorry!
Thereīs no proof for the old story about Gretsch building many (transitional) postwars partly on basis of prewar parts. Maybe they did purchase some surplus metal parts etc. in connection with the take-over in ī40 - but all of the banjos within the original Bacon serial number sequence (like your Seville) had all of their parts manufactored by Bacon, we think. Only the last 100-200 or so examples in this sequence were assembled/finished by Gretsch as a contractor - but they are to be considered as Grotonīs.
So - if you want your postwar collection to be "clean" - sell the Seville and use the funds for purchasing f.ex. a Belmont - LOL!
Kindly regards
Polle
beezaboy - Posted - 11/15/2009: 08:44:03
Polle - Whoa, whoa, whoa!! STOP! I'm collecting Brooklyn, N.Y.
Gretsch factory, 60 Broadway, Brooklyn, N.Y.
September, 1938, Bacon factory, underwater.
My Seville, according to Flaunoe (THE expert) built 1939.
Where? 60 Broadway, Brooklyn, N.Y.
I'm clean...I'm keeping the Seville.
I rest my case 
P.S. - Where can I find an original Gretsch Bacon Ne Plus Ultra??
They are so colorful and flashy!!!
There's an empty spot in the stamp book.
Beezaboy
Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/15/2009: 22:59:37
John,
OK - keep the Seville in your Brooklyn, N.Y. collection. Iīll still keep it in my Groton "collection" - LOL!
Regarding a Symphonie NPU - Buddy Wachter has an example in mint condition for sale - http://www.buddysbanjos.com/detail.asp?IID=45 - at $3,200. I think, that I payed appr. $2,800 for another in near mint confition two years ago at eBay.
BTW - will it be possible seeing a display of your many N.Y. banjos on a picture - sometime in the future? I know of your interest for these - how about setting up a web site with pics and descriptions/explanations - for all of us to see - I guess, that many members will be interested.
Kindly regards and Good Hunting Luck
Polle
beezaboy - Posted - 11/16/2009: 02:50:02
Thanks, Polle.
As you've noted the Wachter banjo is not original and very
expensive. So, I must wait for an ebay opportunity for the
NPU.
I have been contemplating photographing the NYC group
and posting them but I am procrastinating using the rationale
that the collection is incomplete. I am missing a Sousas Way
sold by Chas Ditson in NYC and I am missing a Nu-Way or
Nu-Art sold by Houdett Co. When I find those I'll have no
excuses. BTW, billsbanjos dot com is a fine website and so
is Gunter's site. I found a banjos wanted ad from Gunter in
a 1970's magazine so he has been collecting for a long time
and has a fabulous collection.
Beezaboy
Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/16/2009: 03:48:13
John,
Sorry - I had forgotten about the un-originality of Buddyīs NPU. The link was just meant for you to know the price level for these banjos.
I wonder how large your N.Y. collection is for now - and how about storage place - LOL?
Regarding Guenter Amendtīs Gallery of Banjos - most of the banjos were sold many, many moons ago. He once told me, that he at one time sold 850 nos. to Tsumura - I guess, that a large part of the banjos in the book 1001 Banjos came from Guenter.
Most of the banjos for sale now at his site are "returners" - he has sold them once or twice before - now they are coming back. LOL!
BTW - I myself am thinning my herd of vintage banjos - empty stands are beginning to be prominent in my display. In hopefully only a year or so Iīll only own a few pieces - my personal instruments.
Regards
Polle
beezaboy - Posted - 11/16/2009: 04:34:42
Polle - I spent last week-end building a rack in my bedroom
walk-in closet. It came out very well. Now I can store one
suit, one shirt, one tie and 24 banjos in there!
Beezaboy
Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/17/2009: 07:01:37
John,
24 banjos - but only 1 suit, 1 shirt and 1 tie - will do for any banjoholic!
Polle
budbennett - Posted - 11/17/2009: 07:22:57
for sure you don't need any more. in my experience all suits sound alike so you only need one. banjos though are all different so 1:24 sounds like a fine ratio to me.
dlottbanjo - Posted - 11/18/2009: 05:34:14
beeza i will find out this weekend how much my uncle will take for it
mamaparrot - Posted - 01/13/2010: 12:29:15
Did you ever get this banjo? I have a Belmont Bacon with the pearloid board that I would probably sell only it's a 5 string.
quote:
Originally posted by beezaboy
I would like a Bacon Belmont tenor banjo like this with the
pearloid board. Did Gretsch make this banjo in a tenor??
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Bacon-B...em33575e29b5
Beezaboy
beezaboy - Posted - 01/13/2010: 13:35:09
Mamaparrot - Thanks for the post. I'm holding out for a pearloid
tenor Belmont banjo. I don't play 5 string.
Thanks...
banjothumper5 - Posted - 01/13/2010: 18:12:25
As you all know I play one of these 5-string Belmonts. The banjo in the ebay listnig shouldn`t sell for a bit more than $500. It`s exactly like mine except my resonator is lighter red to yellow sunburst pearloid. I`ve been watching these on ebay for about 5 years and I don`t think I`ve ever saw a Belmont tenor like this. Gretch Senoritas yes, but not Belmonts. Most of these I`ve seen really are pretty crappy, the one I have is just sort of an exception, only a little binding was loose on it. Most of them will have loose pearloid on them somewhere. Mine has a chrome plated STEEL hoop, not brass. The Belmonts & Senoritas with painted fingerboard engravings seem to be earlier banjos and are built a little better than later ones that don`t have painted (or dyed?) fingerboard marks. If the fingerboard is wood instead of pearloid, it`s a later model also. I`ve never played one with a wood fingerboard, don`t know about the quality on them.
As far as sound and tone, they are a pretty bright banjo if the head is pretty tight. A few bluegrass picker buddies of mine have said the tone would be good for traditional bluegrass styles. It sound exceptionally good up the neck for what is really an old-time type banjo.
Gretsch NY - Posted - 02/08/2010: 11:50:34
In the early 1950s the Gretsch Co. used the Bacon Belmont brand to market identical versions of a few of their electric and acoustic guitar models via the Montgomery Ward catalog. The instruments were the same, although priced a lot differently, with the only physical difference being the headstock designation (Gretsch branded vs. Bacon Belmont). Did they use this same approach for banjos?
BrittDLD1 - Posted - 02/09/2010: 11:27:32
quote:
Originally posted by Gretsch NY
In the early 1950s the Gretsch Co. used the Bacon Belmont ... via the Montgomery Ward catalog. ... the only physical difference being the headstock designation (Gretsch branded vs. Bacon Belmont). Did they use this same approach for banjos?
Hi Ed (G-NY) -- Good info... I wasn't aware of the Wards connection -- but it makes sense. Most of the post-war "Gretsch"-branded banjos were actually the CHEAPER line. The Bacon/B&D banjos were Gretsch's PREMIER line, until a little upstart banjo company -- located in the god-forsaken wilderness of Boulder, CO -- blew them out of the water... Read my blog entry: "The Cosmic Irony" http://www.banjohangout.org/myhango...&blogid=9548The mention of Bill Hagner, involves a comment that Hagner made to me (in 1988) about sitting in a production meeting during the late-60s, when someone from upper-management walked in -- and loudly announced (something to the effect of): . . "Gentlemen, The Silver Bell is DEAD! We just got ourselves another banjo company!Bill was in charge of making the Bacon and B&D banjos, at that time. Best- Ed Britt
Edited by - BrittDLD1 on 02/09/2010 11:34:27
BrittDLD1 - Posted - 02/11/2010: 06:50:53
quote:
Originally posted by banjothumper5
... The Belmonts & Senoritas with painted fingerboard engravings seem to be earlier banjos and are built a little better than later ones that don`t have painted (or dyed?) fingerboard marks. If the fingerboard is wood instead of pearloid, it`s a later model also. I`ve never played one with a wood fingerboard, don`t know about the quality on them. ...
Hi Banjothumper -- That's generally true, for Gretsch-made Bacons. But there were a few low-end Pre-war Bacons which had celluloid pegheads, with wood fingerboards. The "Seville" is an example. Because the celluloid fingerboards could be difficult to repair and refret, especially if they became warped -- some Pre-war Senoritas (and other Bacons), have had new ebony or rosewood fingerboards installed. I have a very early Senorita (late-'20s) , which had been played professionally for almost 30 years, and it had been refurbished with an ebony board. The preference, these days, would still be to have a repro celluloid fingerboard engraved. (The hard part is finding pearloid which matches correctly.) Best- Ed Britt
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