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dewbanjo - Posted - 11/13/2009: 11:50:23
I want to record my playing using the "Audacity" ...then play back to improve my skills... ahhh, all I have is a small microphone that plugs into the computer.
So, the question is without spending a bundle of money, what type of microphone should I use with my computer to record?? Also, where could I buy it?
Looking forward to your response...thanks in advance!! 
Keep on the "sunny side"!
Don
minstrelmike - Posted - 11/13/2009: 12:09:16
Have you tried the microphone yet?
Give that a shot.
If you want the sound to be good, you need 1. a good mike 2. a good sound card in the computer AND 3. good speakers/earbuds.
Start recording and see what it sounds like first, then try your speakers/earbuds on something you know sounds good. If it sounds bad and you aren't willing to spend $40 on some earbuds, then don't go spending $80 on a microphone first.
Mike Moxcey
moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html
flatfoot - Posted - 11/13/2009: 12:11:24
I have made excellent recordings using the free mike that came with the computer, as have many others. Take a look at your recording room. Make sure there are no echoes or resonances. Check the meters to look for ambient noise. Experiment with close and far miking.
Buying a different mike will not help you if these ambient conditions are not addressed.
.
I got some tunes up on Youtube: youtube.com/user/flatfoot50
NeilTurner - Posted - 11/13/2009: 12:11:36
Define "a bundle of money"... if we know your budget we can be more help.
You can pick up a Zoom H2 for about $140 - $150 and it will work through your comp. or on its own. I haven't seen anything better for what it does in that price range.
--------------------------------------------------------------
We thought about it for a long time, "Endeavor to persevere." And when we had thought about it long enough, we declared war on the Union. - Lone Watie
revellfa - Posted - 11/13/2009: 13:04:17
I'm no sound equipment expert and I know nothing about microphones, but I second what Neil said about the Zoom H2. I tried recording with audacity and I could never work all of those details out. All of those little "waves" just confused me. The Zoom is great and it is so easy to use even I can operate it.
facebook.com/home.php#/pages/T...32?ref=ts
flatpickerhangout.com/my/revellfa
Steve Donnelly - Posted - 11/13/2009: 13:08:55
My granddaughter taught me how to use Garageband on my iMac.
There is a built in mic on this computer but I bought a Gigaware mic at
Radio Shack for about $37.00 - it's has a better sound and is clearer than the louder
built in mic.
The Gigaware got some bad reviews because of low volume but I use mine
just to play back tunes that I'm practicing and it works just fine for that.
smd
minstrelmike - Posted - 11/13/2009: 13:16:42
One advantage of the Zoom and the other portable recorders is their portability.
You aren't stuck recording in front of your PC or carrying a laptop around.
Mike Moxcey
moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html
BC Bill - Posted - 11/14/2009: 12:43:53
Again, 'bundle of money' is a bit vague. I have a Boss MicroBR that I keep by my practice table and I record my playing on a regular basis. The nice thing about the Boss is that it is a small 4 track recording studio. You can multi-track with yourself - play backup on one track, and play the lead on another track.
It is worth looking into, depending on what a 'bundle' consists of.
Bill
email me at lakesidestudio@shaw.ca
Paul Roberts - Posted - 11/14/2009: 12:55:25
These are all good options, without spending a bundle of money. Time to record some music! It would be nice to hear more people over at Sound-off.
Paul
banjocrazy.com/ Gold Tone Banjos - Lowest Prices
youtube.com/user/strumstering Paul's YouTube Channel
dewbanjo - Posted - 11/14/2009: 13:43:39
OK, I'll first use what I have now on the computer (Gateway... very good speakers). Maybe as suggested I need to see if I have some noise interference, etc. in the room. Maybe put the current microphone in a different spot too instead of jkust putting it next to the key board.
Soon as I figure out what sounds good...I may just post something..
Thanks for all the replies.
Keep on the "sunny side"!
Don
rendesvous1840 - Posted - 11/14/2009: 16:31:06
If possible, avoid too hard of a room. Studio's have sound dampening materials on the walls to stop unwanted echoes. They usually don't have a lot of parallel walls for the same reason. The walls aren't completely square to each other. You won't find that in a normal home, but if you can hang a few blankets to stop the relecting sounds it should help. If you want a little echo, remove the blanket from one wall at a time and see how it affects the sound.
Go to web sites of companies like Shure, Audio-Tecnica, and other mic companies and look for tutorials. They love to teach you how to be happy with what they hope to sell you. You can buy mics at Elderly music, Guitar Center, Sam Ash Music and other on line stores. You might want to email some of the music stores owned by BHO members-they may have the best ideas about recording banjoes, and can probably sell you what you need.
Experiment with what you have. Try placing the mic at different distances from the banjo, and pointing in different angles. All of this has an effect on the sound that reaches the recorder. Eliminate as many variables as possible, only changing one thing at a time until you find the best sound your equipment is capable of. To this end, I would recommend using the same banjo and the same playing style for each test.
Keep records of which take had which placement, angle, mic distance, etc. If you have multiple banjoes, each may want a slighty different set of "specs" to sound it's best.
Paul
"A master banjo player isn't the one who can play the most notes. It's the one who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello
banjohangout.org/forum/topic.a...ID=128303 IBARD topic
ibard-rendesvous1840.blogspot.com/
fretlessinfortwayne - Posted - 11/15/2009: 06:02:48
All my recordings are done with the Zoom H2. When I bought it, they were going for $200. Still a bargain. It came in great use last week when attending an old-time music party in Columbus, Ohio. It's great out in the field as exemplified in my recordings at the Indiana Fiddlers' Gathering and Clifftop.
Dean
"Each one's got to have his own style. It's all creamed potatoes, just fixed a little different." -- Benton Flippen
harvey - Posted - 11/15/2009: 12:42:09
I'd look forward to hear your playing, Don. And I like your new avatar photo!
deso - Posted - 11/16/2009: 05:46:06
quote:
Originally posted by fretlessinfortwayne
All my recordings are done with the Zoom H2. When I bought it, they were going for $200. Still a bargain. It came in great use last week when attending an old-time music party in Columbus, Ohio. It's great out in the field as exemplified in my recordings at the Indiana Fiddlers' Gathering and Clifftop.
Dean
Dean, what are you using for settings on the H2? Recording format? Mic gain setting? Number and spread of mics. Where do you position it? I got one but honestly never really "mastered" it. Deke
dewbanjo - Posted - 11/16/2009: 06:55:48
Morning...still trying to find a spot to put the mic...I do have a "practice piece..Cripple Creek" recorded on my home page. Nothing great but it is a start.
Paul, I'll try moving the mic a bit to see if that helps any. My computer is in a very small room with lots of things for the notes to bounce off. I know, to me, the banjo sounds best outdoors...just a bit difficult to move my desk and computer outside LOL...
thanks "harvey"... thought my banjos next to my grandfathers clock looked a lot better than my mug shot....
Keep on the "sunny side"!
Don
FretlessFury - Posted - 11/17/2009: 14:03:22
I've recently spent a lot of time on this very issue. Here's what I've found:
It all depends on the mic and the room of course, but a mic pointed at the neck joint (where the pot meets the neck) about 2 feet away from the banjo sounds excellent unless your preamp is noisy or mic is not very sensitive.
I've heard people getting great results with the Zoom. I don't have one myself, so I haven't spent any time experimenting with one. If the preamps have enough gain, I'd try the position I mentioned above.
Some purists might frown on this, but I've found that a little kiss of eq and compression can go a long way toward livening up the recorded banjo sound. Banjo is real tricky to record well: you've got lots of transients and rapid decay of tone. In this way, it's similar to recording drums.
I haven't used Audacity for years, and can't remember if it is bundled with plugins. GarageBand is really great for this sort of thing and has some really great dynamics processors that you can use to get the best out of your recordings. It's Mac only though.
Tom Collins
---------------
newhottimes.com
Elements of Round Peak Banjo videos: youtube.com/profile?user=FretlessFury
Edited by - FretlessFury on 11/17/2009 14:18:29
deso - Posted - 11/17/2009: 14:34:36
quote:
Originally posted by FretlessFury
Some purists might frown on this, but I've found that a little kiss of eq and compression can go a long way toward livening up the recorded banjo sound. Banjo is real tricky to record well: you've got lots of transients and rapid decay of tone. In this way, it's similar to recording drums.
Tom Collins
Tom, can you elaborate on the compression settings at all? Without any experience, it is hard to know, numerically, where to start with threshold, attack, etc. They just seem like a bunch of numbers! Also, would you record natural and then add compression. Or, use compression during the recording to cut the transients on the spot? Deke
FretlessFury - Posted - 11/17/2009: 15:42:09
quote:
Originally posted by deso
quote:
Originally posted by FretlessFury
Some purists might frown on this, but I've found that a little kiss of eq and compression can go a long way toward livening up the recorded banjo sound. Banjo is real tricky to record well: you've got lots of transients and rapid decay of tone. In this way, it's similar to recording drums.
Tom Collins
Tom, can you elaborate on the compression settings at all? Without any experience, it is hard to know, numerically, where to start with threshold, attack, etc. They just seem like a bunch of numbers! Also, would you record natural and then add compression. Or, use compression during the recording to cut the transients on the spot?
Deke
Sure! I use any dynamics processing after the recording because if you use it during recording you can't really remove the compression if you don't like it. While I'm recording I just make sure to set my level so that I have plenty of headroom. I guess I could drive the mic a little harder if I used compression up front, but I've been happy with my results so far. As far as compression settings, I keep it pretty light with a relatively fast attack and mid-range release. My threshold is set so that I'm reducing gain by just a few db's during peaks, and my ratio is usually a conservative 2:1 or 4:1. A lot depends on the compressor because each one is so different, but the stock Logic 9 compressor usually sounds great with between 5 and 10 ms of attack and a 20 ms release on a 2:1 ratio. Another compressor I have sounds great with a really fast attack and medium release and a ratio of 4:1. You really have to experiment. As far as EQ, banjo has a huge bump in the 500 hz range. I scoop that out just a tiny bit to lessen the mid-rangy feel. I also sometimes give a little lift on the high end for definition. The trick is to keep it all as natural as possible. Too much compression and you'll start to hear stuff you don't want: mic/preamp hiss, head noise or even the pumping of the compressor as it adjusts to the levels. One trick I use to minimize any compression artifacts is to double my track, apply compression to one of the tracks and bring it right up under the uncompressed track in terms of volume. This adds lots of fullness and body to the track without sounding fake. If you pan each track just slightly, you can really give the illusion of stereo fullness. I have come to realize though that the biggest impact on your recorded sound is mic selection (assuming your banjo is properly setup and you're happy with your tone). After years of looking for the right mic, I think the Josephson C42 is near perfect for recording clawhammer banjo: josephson.com/ [see the series 4 link for a spec sheet]. It's like recording with a diamond: crystal clear with plenty of sparkle. We're in the middle of a recording project, so I'm eating and breathing this stuff these days. Let me know if any of this is unclear! I'll try to post a sound sample in the coming days. Tom Collins --------------- newhottimes.comElements of Round Peak Banjo videos: youtube.com/profile?user=FretlessFury
FretlessFury - Posted - 11/17/2009: 15:49:40
Oh and another thing about compression:
It can be really really hard to hear the details as you twist knobs if you're working from crappy speakers, so don't think you're going deaf (or crazy) if you can't hear the changes. Release is particular hard for me to hear when the ratio is low unless I'm on my monitors.
If you're serious about this stuff, a good-quality pair of studio monitors can allow you to hear these details. Of course, the downside is that they can point out all the other flaws as well!! I use a pair of Focal CMS-50's and they're the best investment I've made for my studio.
Tom Collins
---------------
newhottimes.com
Elements of Round Peak Banjo videos: youtube.com/profile?user=FretlessFury
Edited by - FretlessFury on 11/17/2009 15:57:11
RedZinger - Posted - 11/17/2009: 15:56:50
Hi,
I think you can get some pretty good results for your purposes with a usb mic. I've used a Samson Condensor mic (C01U) with audacity on my dell and it worked ok. The sound quality was not too bad ( zzounds.com/item--SAMC01U which costs about $100). You can find a lot of variety in USB mics for $100 and less -- a lot more for $200 or less.
Rob
deso - Posted - 11/17/2009: 15:57:25
Wow! Thanks, Tom. I think I caught you just at the right moment with these questions. I really do appreciate this clarifications. Good luck with your project and let us know when you've got something.
Edited by - deso on 11/17/2009 15:58:27
FretlessFury - Posted - 11/17/2009: 17:40:23
quote:
Originally posted by deso
Wow! Thanks, Tom. I think I caught you just at the right moment with these questions. I really do appreciate this clarifications. Good luck with your project and let us know when you've got something.
Glad I could help! Just remember: All a compressor does is automate volume control. You could do the same thing by riding the faders (though your adjustments wouldn't be as fast). 'Attack' is the time it takes the compressor to act on the signal, 'release' is how soon the compressor stops acting and 'ratio' is how much the gain is reduced when the peak goes over your threshold. Tom Collins --------------- newhottimes.comElements of Round Peak Banjo videos: youtube.com/profile?user=FretlessFury
brubart - Posted - 04/07/2010: 07:04:27
One way to avoid treating the room acoustics is to use a clip-on mic or pickup. The clip-on mic is so close to the banjo that it tends to "hear" the banjo and not the room you are in. A good mini-mic can sound very natural, more so than a pickup in my experience.
A suggested mic placement to start with is halfway between the bridge and rim bottom. The mic can be stuck onto the head with putty, or suspended an inch or two off the head with a mic clip. Plug the mic into a Zoom H4n (or similar recorder, or an audio interface) and you're all set.
If you do want to hear the acoustics of your room, you could either mix in a more distant mic or use a stand-mounted mic. Close mic placement gives a tight, dry sound. Distant mic placement gives a live, airy sound (but more background noise such as traffic and air conditioning). Make some trial recordings, note the mic placements, and listen to the playbacks. Hope this helps.
Bruce Bartlett
Barn Owl String Band
bartlettmics.com
Clawdan - Posted - 04/07/2010: 08:10:03
Don,
Staying with simple and not a boatload of cash, I second the opinion of the audio tech 2020 usb. Selling for around 100 bucks on Amazon it is a small price to pay for clean soundfiles. My "spotted pony" on by sound page that i recorded for the totw was direct to my imac using audacity (much simpler and straight forward than garage band - you click file, new, hit the record button) and has no eq'ing. I put silence at the beginning and a fade out at the end, but that is all. Could it have been tweeked to sound even better, yah, you betcha i'm sure, but I didn't.
The 100 you spend now will keep you from spending the 20 or 30 over and over. I will be doing a more complete review of the mic and have fiddle as well as banjo files but that might be a while away yet.
Dan
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