sjyokel - Posted - 11/13/2009:  05:56:41

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I like this whole this-vs.-that format, so I'll throw out another one.

How about Hatfield vs. Fitch? Seems impossible to find two of these in the same place to compare them, and they both have models priced just under $3K (a nice plus right about now).

richmondgeorge - Posted - 11/13/2009:  06:02:22

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YATES

Seriously though I will have to say Hatfield

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Edited by - richmondgeorge on 11/13/2009 06:13:55

RB11 Player - Posted - 11/13/2009:  06:46:04

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sjyokel lets hear your opinion first. You started the thread.

IMO a banjo player should choose the sound, feel & look themselves and not be persuaded by internet chatter.

There is no such thing as a good, bad or better banjo.

Make up your own mind & buy what you like.

Bruce4501 - Posted - 11/13/2009:  06:46:05

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I have played the Hatfields, but not a Fitch.
I'm sure the Fitch is an excellent banjo, but for the money AND the service you get from Hatfield, I would be hard pressed NOT to get a Hatfield as my next banjo.
Just my two cents.
Bruce

rjanecek - Posted - 11/13/2009:  06:50:11

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I like the Hatfields consistancy in his builds. Doesnt wander off in different directions all the time.. I own a hatfield

God Bless America

Rick

sjyokel - Posted - 11/13/2009:  06:57:19

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quote:

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Originally posted by RB11 Player

sjyokel lets hear your opinion first. You started the thread.

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Well, I like the prices on both.

That's about all I can say at the moment.

I'd need to go way out of my way to get my hands on either one to try them out, so I'm hoping to hear that one or the other is more worth the trip. I've listened to video clips and tracks that feature both banjos, and I don't think you can tell anything about a banjo unless it's in your hands.

Just curious to know what others think who've actually had the opportunity to try both.

dpeacock1 - Posted - 11/13/2009:  07:19:02

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This is not Hatfield vs. Fitch, just a statement of my good fortune to have done business with and gotten to know Arthur Hatfield.
****************************************************************
December 2000, I "found" and bought a 1934 TB4 (9554-3) for sale locally from the original owners son.
In January, I called Frank Neat about making a 5-string neck. He had a 14 month backlog and suggested I call Arthur Hatfield.
A few years back on another banjo, he added his ring and Cox rim to make a good banjo better. And he reworked what should have been a good banjo, but wasn't, into an exceptional sounding and playing instrument.

Arthur is readily accessible by phone, talks straight, and keeps up with and knows his business. He's a significant plus to the banjo community.

Doug


Enjoy the music!

Forrest - Posted - 11/13/2009:  07:23:44

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This is an impossible question is some ways, unless someone that has your particular tastes and has owned both banjos chimes in with their opinion. IMO, you'll likely have to decide for yourself based on individual reviews of both instruments, put your trust in one of these two builders and make the purchase.

I think that Cliff makes good banjos, but he seems to have a difficult time settling on a particular combination of ring and rim, which says to me that he really doesn't have a clear direction as to what sound he wants folks to associate with Fitch banjos. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, but if I bought the "latest and greatest" and "the best I've had in the shop" from Cliff, only to have the next banjo described as such, I'd be pretty upset. There are a number of happy Fitch banjo owners on the BHO, so Cliff must be doing things right.

I've met Arthur personally and he has my confidence and trust. Arthur has a very clear direction as to what he likes in a banjo and knows exactly how to get it, which leads to an incredible level of consistency in his instruments. Arthur also builds as fine a banjo as you'll find anywhere and seems to have the respect and admiration of pretty much everyone that has met or had dealings with him. I've played 3 Hatfields and they were all very, very fine banjos with a high level of craftsmanship and a wonderful sound.

I know what my next banjo will be and where it will come from, which should be evident from what I've just written.

"Run, Forrest, Run!"

RB11 Player - Posted - 11/13/2009:  07:28:09

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Every year we plan a family vacation to where ever. I will incorporate an afternoon during the vaction to either meet friends or find some store with plenty of banjos to pick on. JDMC & FQ are two I have been to. Purchased a new banjo for myself during both visits. I would have never purchased these banjos based on others opinions.

Call them ahead of time and tell them you will be coming. Nothing like having the red carpet rolled out for you. Were planning our next vacation in 2010 so I can go to Elderly next. Future trips will be to Turtle Hill, Gruhn, Bernunzios & The Mandolin Bros.

I find a portion of internet opinions to be biased.

rjanecek - Posted - 11/13/2009:  07:34:56

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Alan, youve taken my thoughts and put pen to paper so to speak.. THank you

God Bless America

Rick

nickster - Posted - 11/13/2009:  07:57:40

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I'm real happy with my mahogany Fitch. I'm sure Arthur makes a good banjo also. Try them both before you buy if at all possible.

Nick

ambpicker - Posted - 11/13/2009:  09:31:08

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Both are superb banjo craftsmen, offer great services, and build fine banjos.
I have not met either in person, but seems that as far as personality goes, they are 2 different types of individuals. I'll leave it at that.
I am an experimenter by nature, I like it that Fitch tries so much different stuff.
And he has put some fabulous banjos together, which I don't think anyone would deny.
I have never heard the least disparaging thing about Arthur, either personally or regarding his work.
I would not hesitate to use either's services, or banjos.


Leslie

daveh - Posted - 11/13/2009:  09:37:51

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That Fitch TT that he made is a banjo I have definite lust for.
Dave

mastertone250 - Posted - 11/13/2009:  13:27:19

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Arthur Hatfield All the way. You wont find no better service or a better person. Arthur does it the way you want it. His Craftsman ship is Far Beyond Excellent. Theres oother good builders out there,but theres only one that suits me.

"Surround Yourself With Good Muscians". -J.D Crowe
“Nobody is a legend, we all put our pants on one leg at a time.” - Sonny Osborne

PyrPups - Posted - 11/13/2009:  13:46:41

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I'm sure glad Cliffs last name isn't McCoy!

Retropicker - Posted - 11/13/2009:  13:59:35

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With all respect to Cliff, Arthur has forgotten more than Cliff knows regarding banjo building and setup. He picks real good too!

____Keep the hay in Bluegrass__________________________

Brian - Posted - 11/13/2009:  14:07:42

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Well then Arthur must have forgotten quite a bit. Gimme a break? With all respect to Cliff?

Brian

stringman711 - Posted - 11/13/2009:  15:14:45

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Arthur

dana

impickin5 - Posted - 11/13/2009:  15:57:07

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I think Arthur will be in the banjo making business a lot longer (assuming he doesn't start anymore "popcorn" fires)

Ray

"Where are we going and why am I in this hand basket"

banjoplyr. - Posted - 11/13/2009:  16:05:18

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Athur's banjo and service are right there with the best, I do not know anything about mr. fitch or his banjo's or workmenship so I can't comment on his banjo's.

Roger
htt://www.banjolounge.com
RS bridges

LeftRightLeft - Posted - 11/13/2009:  17:39:50

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I have a Fitch in my lap--and there is no doubt it's a great banjo. Everyone who plays it agrees. And I'll put Cliff's customer service up against anyone's.

Point is, though, that you play it first, then decide. There was never any doubt in my mind that this banjo was the one for me. Lusted for it when I first saw it and I lust for it still.

Retropicker - Posted - 11/13/2009:  19:28:32

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quote:

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Originally posted by Brian

Well then Arthur must have forgotten quite a bit. Gimme a break? With all respect to Cliff?

Brian

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Yup

____Keep the hay in Bluegrass__________________________

goldtopia - Posted - 11/14/2009:  03:16:12

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They are both good but I think Fitch has got the edge. Anyway its a matter of personal choice so there are bound to be different opinions.

Bill.O

www.bluegrassminstrels.co.uk

jebmd - Posted - 11/14/2009:  04:43:58

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[quote]Originally posted by sjyokel

I like this whole this-vs.-that format, so I'll throw out another one.

This format can be a bit contentious and routinely leads to negative remarks in general. Plenty of BHO members own each of these builders fine instruments.

How about starting a thread that states: I live in (your city and state) does anyone own xyz banjo that I could pick? I may be interested in buying one of said banjo.







Jeb

Just do the work.

sjyokel - Posted - 11/14/2009:  04:49:19

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quote:

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Originally posted by jebmd

[quote]Originally posted by sjyokel

I like this whole this-vs.-that format, so I'll throw out another one.

This format can be a bit contentious and routinely leads to negative remarks in general. Plenty of BHO members own each of these builders fine instruments.

How about starting a thread that states: I live in (your city and state) does anyone own xyz banjo that I could pick? I may be interested in buying one of said banjo.

Jeb

Just do the work.

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Yep, that's probably a good idea.

DJMorgan - Posted - 11/14/2009:  11:58:14

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I like'em both. Arthur did my neck on my Williams Kenny Ingram and I bought a TT from Cliff a couple of months ago. Both sport Burlile rings. I like them both. BTW I have no problem with Cliff posting his latest and greatest opinion on the banjos he builds. The one I bought from is everything he said it was.

ghassell - Posted - 11/14/2009:  15:11:23

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I think an important clue is contained in the question itself- you havent seen them side by side often... As for most of the opinions expressed, did anyone say they had spent much time playing both? I doubt it.

I own a Fitch and it's been great. Cliff is great to work with. I have been to his house and played several of his banjos. You can't go wrong... As far as the different combinations he uses and the idea Cliff may not have a clear idea of what he is looking for-- that's an interesting observation but I don't think that it's quite fair. Cliff is trying to give his buyers the options THEY like at prices THEY can afford. Everyone has different tastes, and he is trying to be flexible. Cliff has made it completely clear he likes the Burlile ring best and would love to build that for you. (The Burlile's are danged expensive and I was glad for the option of a Nitro II ring.)

As for Arthur, as is typical of this thread, I have never played a Hatfield or spoken to Arthur. I hear great things. I do believe Cliff and Arthur are friendly with one another. The idea that one of those guys " forgot more than he other knows" is silly, either way you put that opinion.

The bottom line is we are lucky to live in a time when there are lots of great banjos being made. Get out there and pick a bunch of them. Fall in love and buy that banjo. Let a couple years go by and go get another one. Have fun.

timothybiernacki - Posted - 11/14/2009:  15:51:34

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What a bunch of nonsense! It reminds me of the Ford VS. Chevy discussion; the perpetual disagreement like a dog chasing its tail. Why do people ask "which is better" questions? You need to find out for yourself! Mr. Fitch and Mr. Hatfield both make great banjos for their customers. Play one of each and make up your own mind and get on with it. Jeez.

mainejohn - Posted - 11/14/2009:  15:54:24

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You're talking about two of the best in the business. I've seen one Hatfield, and it's impeccable. I've never seen a complete Fitch, but Cliif has done some custom work for me and I couldn't have been happier with the quality of his service or work. My guess is that in 30-40 years, if you own either one, you'll have a very collectible and valuable banjo.

Cheers,
John Coleman
Scarborough, Maine

steve davis - Posted - 11/14/2009:  15:59:07

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There are many fine builders around.
The hardest part is choosing just one.

BDC1 - Posted - 11/14/2009:  17:01:52

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Im curious to know a few things.

Does Cliff make his necks? I had heard that FQMS makes the necks, and no I do not mean stage 4.
Does he do the heel cuts etc etc ? I know he turns rims, and finishes

Just Curious

ghassell - Posted - 11/14/2009:  17:08:51

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I know Cliff spent quite a lot of time shaping the neck of my banjo. The feel of the neck is one of the things I like best about it. The banjo replaces a 1990 Granada I sold because the neck was not quite right for me... for more information, ask Cliff at www.fitchbanjos.com

foggycoast - Posted - 11/14/2009:  20:35:16

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I've owned two Fitch banjos. I've also owned two Stellings, an OME, a Prucha, a Deering and a Gold Star. The Fitch's were both my favorite banjos.
Having said that, I would like to own a Hatfield and a Huber and a Yates.

My take is that when you talk about a Hatfield banjo, other than the wood used, they are basically all identical components. That's OK because I'm sure they are very good banjos. With Fitch it is more of a custom shop where he will create the banjo to suit your desires. He is also constantly experimenting to find better combinations and appropriate price points. That's OK too.

The thing that I find unpleasant about threads like this is that some people favor one banjo over another based on there personal feelings about the builder. If each poster objectively discussed just the banjos there might be more clarity.

Catching Second - Posted - 11/15/2009:  01:09:34

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Ricky
Gibson TB-00 conversion

goldtopia - Posted - 11/15/2009:  07:30:57

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Yes, this matter about neck shape is I think quite important. I have found a distinct difference in the ease of playing a Fitch. Cliff Fitch has put a lot of thought into it not just the various tone rings . I would like to buy another but the import duty of 20% is more than I can bare. The nearest I could buy to a Fitch is a Prucha.

Bill.O

www.bluegrassminstrels.co.uk

goldtopia - Posted - 11/15/2009:  08:15:20

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I have just read through the various comments Chevy cars are are rubbish and not liked in England, they have just bought the Korean car firm Daewoo in the past couple of years or so which are equally rubbish. The sooner Chevy go bust the better. Get them out of England. We don't want them. Well ! I have said it. Nothing against banjo players whatever side of the Atlantic. Cliff is willing to experiment to get the best. My guess is he would like the fantastic ring without the excessive sustain. There is a secret sound. No, its not the Gibson sound , its something else that many banjos builders have got very near to. I think Cliff Fitch knows it but it does not appeal to everyone. Its like looking for the Holy Grail. I wonder if many people really know what the Gibson pre-war sound is. Gibson probably has a recording to remind themselves what it is. When luthiers become friends I doubt very much that they hide secrets from each other. I don't think tHatfield and Fitch see each other as competitors. Except Gibson as they have a psuedo reputation which they are desperately trying not to loose.

Bill.O

www.bluegrassminstrels.co.uk

rjanecek - Posted - 11/15/2009:  08:22:51

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quote:

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I wonder if many people really know what the Gibson pre-war sound is

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Cliff does. its for sale on ebay right now described as such

"Authentic Pre-War Tone"

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Fitch-Fires...em1e5913bf14

It appears that hes able to get this tone with any combination or configuration

God Bless America

Rick

jebmd - Posted - 11/15/2009:  08:43:19

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quote:

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Originally posted by rjanecek

quote:

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I wonder if many people really know what the Gibson pre-war sound is

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Cliff does. its for sale on ebay right now described as such

"Authentic Pre-War Tone"

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Fitch-Fires...em1e5913bf14

It appears that hes able to get this tone with any combination or configuration

God Bless America

Rick

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The ad also says this:

if you do not agree, you may send it back for a full refund.





Jeb

Just do the work.

Catching Second - Posted - 11/15/2009:  11:56:16

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quote:

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Originally posted by goldtopia

The sooner Chevy go bust the better.

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Just so you're aware, there are many people from this website whose lives are supported by the employment that Chevrolet gives them. They are a major employer in the United States. Saying the sooner they fail the better is a pretty harsh statement when you're talking about the livelyhood of your fellow banjo players. That analogy is in poor taste, in my opinion.

Ricky
Gibson TB-00 conversion

Retropicker - Posted - 11/15/2009:  12:32:43

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Ignorance is bliss, Ricky.

____Keep the hay in Bluegrass__________________________

RB100 - Posted - 11/15/2009:  14:30:24

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quote:

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Originally posted by Catching Second

quote:

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Originally posted by goldtopia

The sooner Chevy go bust the better.

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Just so you're aware, there are many people from this website whose lives are supported by the employment that Chevrolet gives them. They are a major employer in the United States. Saying the sooner they fail the better is a pretty harsh statement when you're talking about the livelyhood of your fellow banjo players. That analogy is in poor taste, in my opinion.

Ricky
Gibson TB-00 conversion

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I agree that the comments on Chevy were in poor taste...perhaps made hastily without thinking...at least I hope that would be the case...I certainly don't hope for the demise of gainful employment in the UK - nor anywhere for that matter. As for the thread being a Ford vs. Chevy argument, that certainly goes for me. Nothing will be decided by such threads and invariably, there are strong feelings expressed (IMO).

If one wants to compare two brands of anything, try them both and reach your own conclusion - if they are not both easily available, read reviews...those will be biased as well, but better than pitting one brand against another in an open forum where anything positive seldom emerges. (again IMO)

Just my $0.02.

Bill

"I've been to Georgia on a fast train..." Shaver

North Georgia Bluegrass Chronicles
http://bcbrown.net/bluegrass/chronicles/

TR Dockery - Posted - 11/15/2009:  14:59:10

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You guys are reading way too much into Goldtopia's comment. I don't think he was wishing unemployment on anybody.

That said, I have had work done by both Arthur and Cliff and they were both top notch. Arthur may have the edge on pre-war matters by virtue of a longer association with pre-war banjos and with those who own them. Cliff is a very skilled machinist and brings that with him on any service he performs.

Regards,
Randy in Germantown, TN

"I may be schizophrenic, but at least I have each other."

Timron - Posted - 11/15/2009:  16:04:18

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The best thing for one to do is play them and listen as well. I have played Hatfields but have never seen or heard a Fitch in person. I like Arthurs banjos they are excellent. I don't think a pre-war rim alone makes the true pre-war sound.

Catching Second - Posted - 11/15/2009:  16:30:12

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I hate these "This vs That" posts. It's predictable. The people who have one or the other are going to side with what they have. If you really wonder which one is better than the other, go out and play each instrument. I find these posts pointless and in many cases an excuse for some people to slam a competitor of whatever product they support. I also find it pointless for people to chime into these posts that have not played both banjos.

I don't apologize for the words I used though and the cut and dry message. I don't see how you could read too much into someone saying "The sooner a company fails the better". This is a very ignorant comment being that such an occurance would cause many people extreme hardship. Maybe because most of the people who would be affected aren't from the UK is how Bill can so such a thing so lightly.

Ricky
Gibson TB-00 conversion

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Edited by - Catching Second on 11/15/2009 16:31:22

nickster - Posted - 11/15/2009:  21:00:39

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Greed from both the UAW and the bean counters with Chevy, Ford, and Chrysler is killing the American auto industry. I have an American made vehicle (Dodge Grande Caravan) with 23,000 miles on it that the water pump just had to be replaced. I will never buy another American made vehicle. That said we are lucky that we have the best banjo makers in the world right here in the USA.

Nick

goldtopia - Posted - 11/15/2009:  23:27:55

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Yes, that's right I dont wish people to become unemployed but Chevy cars are pretty poor quality. Its a good job they dont make banjos.

Bill.O

www.bluegrassminstrels.co.uk

axsis - Posted - 11/16/2009:  04:14:40

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I have folled this thread and I own a "Hatfield"
I also know Arthur Hatfield would be upset with me if I commented.
Bottom line folks "They are what they are"

Cheers!
Don

sjyokel - Posted - 11/16/2009:  08:51:03

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Okay, this has obviously drifted a bit, so I don't mind drifting a little more.

First, it wasn't my intention to make this about Arthur Hatfield and Cliff Fitch. It's about their products and how people feel about buying and owning them. Hatfield and Fitch are both grown up business men and realize, I hope, that they've got competing products. Fact is, they've both got banjos out there in the under $3K and over $2K range, and considering how few of those there are and how few (if any) stores carry them, it seems reasonable to ask how they compare.

Second, if you read some of these posts, it's clear that there are other reasons to buy something than just the flat out quality of the product--service before and after the sale, how they hold their value, consistency of the products, etc.

Third, like I said, I find this kind of post useful, if you don't, no problem. I respect that..up to the point that you feel like you need to teach me a lesson.

Finally, I don't intend this to sound like I'm snapping back at people who said I should go visit these dealers and try their banjos. In a perfect world, that would be great advice. For me, $3,000 is a lot of money. I can probably save it up in time and feel okay that my family will be okay if I spend it on a banjo--especially one I can hang onto for the next 20 or 30 years. Taking time off of work and my family to drive around the country and try these banjos out just means I have less left over to spend when the time comes. I wouldn't buy anything without playing it first, but I need to make a few choices about which ones I can do without. My hat's off to you folks who can make these kinds of trips or even just to have five or six different banjos to mess around with, but please don't assume everybody here has the same opportunities.

rwkuta - Posted - 11/16/2009:  09:48:27

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I have owned a Hatfield Walnut Custom for 2 years and I have rarely heard a better sounding banjer than Arthur's. The great news........it keeps sounding better. I am sure the Fitch banjer is top quality I just dont have any experience with them...

my 2 cents

www.myspace.com/rwkuta

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Edited by - rwkuta on 11/16/2009 09:54:27