Jami108 - Posted - 11/12/2009:  20:46:38

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Over the last few days, I've inadvertently entered a period of repertoire expansion. It all started when I decided to make a version of "Standing on the Promises," a song that I grew up with. (It actually really started with the Genesis project and morphed into this, but that's a different story). I love the Will Keys version on "Banjo Original." I enjoyed playing it so much that I started remembering other church songs that I grew up with and today downloaded the index from the hymnal that we used all through my childhood and adolescence. I spent the evening playing through some of the songs I remember, noting the ones that jumped out for future development. I was particularly taken by "He's Coming Soon," which is the melody from "Aloha 'Oe" by Queen Lili#699;uokalani. (Oh yeah, listening to Joseph Spence play his incredible versions of some of these songs nudged me in this direction too).

I can see this becoming a major project and taking up a great deal of my playing time. It feels closer to the genuine folk process to me in some ways, because these are songs that I can't remember not knowing. I was immersed in them from the first Sunday after I was born, three times a week. I don't have to invent variants; I hear them already. It's just a matter of finding them on the banjo. And most of the "church music" I grew up with was written in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, so it goes nicely on the banjo anyway.

BUT...I've also got two bands brewing (how did THAT happen), both of which are playing the fiddle tunes and banjo songs I've been immersed in for the last twelve months. And I don't want to "lose" that part of my repertoire. Also, a majority of the "church" songs seem to fall nicely in Double C, at least in part because it opens up the possibility of bass runs that you can't get in Open G. But I don't want to lose my Open G sensibilities.

So, I've found myself with, I fear, not enough playing time to do everything I want to do. Any advice out there about (a) how to maintain existing repertoire while expanding another part of it and (b) maintaining conversance in one tuning while spending a majority of time in another?

Jami



"When you want genuine music—music that will come right home to you like a bad quarter, suffuse your system like strychnine whiskey…ramify your whole constitution like the measles, and break out on your hide like the pin-feather pimples on a picked goose—when you want all this, just smash your piano, and invoke the glory-beaming banjo!" - Mark Twain

Chris Dean - Posted - 11/12/2009:  21:29:10

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This is a problem I've been thinking about quite often lately. My rep is expanding about 3-4 tunes a week. I have divided my practice time into 3 sections. The first section is for me to work on tunes that are new to me. The second section of my practice deals with stylistic practicing, or focusing on technique. The last part of my practice I use to keep up on tunes that I haven't played in a while. If I feel myself losing a tunes, then I immediately work to keep it up.

I guess to answer your question analyze and reflect upon the tunes you know and decided which ones are in threat of being lost.

~Chris

Christopher W. Dean

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Edited by - Chris Dean on 11/12/2009 21:29:48

airborne - Posted - 11/13/2009:  02:18:31

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I retired ealy 4 years ago, so i have a lot of time to practice, it must be hard for guy's that work to put the time in.

roninboise - Posted - 11/13/2009:  02:54:54

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if you can burn or copy the songs to a cd or mp3, listening to them as you drive or work might help.

ramjo - Posted - 11/13/2009:  06:50:42

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Jami, you're not saying that working on the double-c tunes precludes going back to playing g tunes because of the bother of re-tuning, right? If so, what better excuse for acquiring another banjo! Have your double-c and g axes right there for the choosing! (And then, your modal tunes are gonna require another one.) Oh well. Like Chris, I tend to split my practice sessions in parts. First I work on a new tune. It's slow going and methodical, with the aim of getting the tune into muscle memory, and it helps me warm up. When I feel like I've gained some control over my fingers, I run through tunes that are pretty well set, but need cleaning up. First a bunch of double-c tunes, then a bunch in g-modal, then a bunch in a. Or some such order. I usually end a session with some tunes I know well--again grouped into their tunings--so I can put the banjo down feeling really good about how the last stuff sounded.

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Edited by - ramjo on 11/13/2009 07:28:29

majikgator - Posted - 11/13/2009:  07:59:00

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i'm not all that brilliant and don't have a lot of trouble keeping up with a few tunings as far as just a huge number fo songs well from friends of mine that actually have them (do as i say not as i do?) they concern themselves more with remembering the melodies and lyrics if you sing, than exact arrangements of the tunes and i thiink once you have that down if you ever had an arrangent it will come back to you pretty quickly and if not you will at least be playing the tune. As as far as the actual tuning and playing of the instrument obviously an extra banjo or two is great if you can afford and can carry them, i do pretty much what ramjo suggested about the grouping and also i guess his refections on muscle memory since that's the only kind i have left.

jk

ScottK - Posted - 11/13/2009:  08:03:23

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I found that after my repertoire of learned tunes (tunes I can play from memory) got up somewhere between 100-150 tunes that I started losing the less frequently played tunes as I learned new ones. At first it bothered me, but then I decided not to worry about it. There's just not enough free hours in my schedule to keep practicing all the tunes once the list gets that long and it's too much fun learning new tunes not to.

I was in my first old time string band for two years up until this past August when we broke up. The band had a weekly pub gig, so that pretty much was our practice. It was informal enough that we could introduce new tunes right there and frequent enough that I didn't have to practice learned tunes in between sessions to keep them memorized. I only practiced new tunes that I was learning in between the pub sessions.

Nowadays I spend most of my banjo practice time learning tunes in the repertoires of the fiddlers that I play with most frequently. I spend more of my practice practice time learning old time fiddle.

Even though I'm forgetting how to play tunes I haven't played for a while, as oldwoodchuck often says, they come back pretty easily on-the-fly in jams when somebody else leads them. Often I won't remember the name of a tune being played in a jam, just recall that I used to play it and after a round or two my fingers find it again.

Scott

ramjo - Posted - 11/13/2009:  08:33:26

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Several months ago, I actually wrote down the titles of all the tunes I know how to play. I keep this list in a notebook near the instruments, and I try to remember to add new tunes as I learn them. (Yes, I know. Too much free time. But like JK muscle memory is about all I've got left too.) Every once in a while I look at the list and notice tunes I haven't thought about, let alone played in weeks. So I'll run through them if it strikes my fancy.

Voyageur - Posted - 11/13/2009:  08:48:28

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You guys have convinced me that I need to become more organized. I am going to start keeping a notebook of tunes I know. I think I'll jot down the tab for the first few notes to help kick start the muscle memory.

"Do not pray for an easy life. Pray to be stronger. Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for powers equal to your tasks."
- Fr. Solanus Casey

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 11/13/2009:  10:02:08

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I've been playing 40 years.
During that time period, there have been
ups and downs........I have sometimes gone
a long time (months in a couple cases) without
playing. While I did forget some material, the majority
of it I remembered. Even now I have a few dozen tunes
I tend to to play most often. But for the most part, I remember
the other less-played tunes even if I haven't played them in weeks
(or more). I have a bigger problem remembering to play the tunes
than remembering how to play them. For example, the other day
I just started playing "Nixon's Farewell". I hadn't played it in months
and had forgotten I even knew it. I guess that speaks for keeping a
list of tunes.

I guess what I am geting at is that I don't think you have to play every tune you know all that frequently to keep up with them. Realistically if
you even get around to each one every week or two, you'll probably be
fine.
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Here's another peripherally related issue concerning fluency at jams:
Especially when I was into Irish Trad, I was always amazed at musicians who knew every tune and would have seemed to have a repertoire of literally thousands of tunes. Relatedly, if they didn't seem to know the tune, they were often playing it almost note-for-note by the second or third run through.....amazing. In many cases, they couldn't start the tune but knew it once it got going. I am not talking back-up players here, but melody line players like fiddlers, whistle-players, accordeon players, etc.

What was going on was that the tunes are made up of "phrases" that were often common to many tunes. These musicians knew enough music that they had become acquainted with most of the phrases and often knew the majority of any tune you'd play already. It just took a minute bit of fumbling around to get on track.

R.D. Lunceford- "Missourian in Exile"
Model 1865 Bowlin Fretless Banjo
****************************************************
"Drink from the Musselfork once, and you'll
always come back." -Dr. Bondurant Hughes, 1917

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 11/13/2009:  12:11:07

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Back when I played classical guitar I used to divvy up my practice time - and hour for technique, and hour for new repertoire and two hours for old repertoire. Nothing was ever considered finished. I was always looking for improvements in old pieces.

Now I only actually learn new tunes as other people play them. I never practice.

I admit I've gone to far but that is the nature of life.

I wouldn't worry too much about forgetting tunes. Once you hear them again you will be able to pick up the skeleton, and beyond that you don't need much more. Learning and forgetting then relearning on the fly is a good way to cull out the unnecessary bits and just feel the MUSIC flow through your arm to the banjo.



http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Rocket Science Banjo - Advanced Clawhammer Techniques for beginners and long time players alike. Plus videos and 25-40 EZ Clawhammer Tunes.
& check out "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
banjo brad's great banjo site

minstrelmike - Posted - 11/13/2009:  12:32:01

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1. Start a life list of every single song you've ever learned to play. Keep that up-to-date.
2. Go thru that list and try every song at least once a month. That will tell you the ones you have a hard time remembering.
You can let some go if you want or you can use the forgetting to realize some songs need to get into a weekly rotation whereas others can go into a yearly one.

I wouldn't jot down anything to prod the memory. If you can't remember how it goes, look it up again and then put it on the daily/weekly list.

Mike Moxcey
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html

Jami108 - Posted - 11/13/2009:  12:34:46

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I have tune lists, but I never can find them when I want them. They move around on their own, I swear. I play out of both of my primary tunings every day (one banjo in each), but I like that thing that happens when you play in one tuning alot for a period of time and just automatically know where the notes are on the fretboard.

I definitely feel reassured. After spending the last year building up a set of tunes that I feel fluent in (though, like Old Woodchuck says, they're never "finished"), it's hard for me to trust that they'll hang around if I don't play them EVERY SINGLE DAY. :-) So hearing you guys that have been playing for years tell me they won't go away helps me to feel a bit more trusting of the process.



Jami



"When you want genuine music—music that will come right home to you like a bad quarter, suffuse your system like strychnine whiskey…ramify your whole constitution like the measles, and break out on your hide like the pin-feather pimples on a picked goose—when you want all this, just smash your piano, and invoke the glory-beaming banjo!" - Mark Twain

Mary Temple - Posted - 11/13/2009:  13:26:12

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Your answer is in your question. You want to maintain what you've worked so hard at, so make the time to do that and remind yourself it's your goal. But if you can't then be comforted to know that most of what you've learned will come back with little effort even if you have to forget it for a while. I've found one really good way to maintain some of the older tunes, that I don't play as much right now, is to listen to them when I can while I'm doing other things (riding in the car, doing dishes, etc.)

Many of the older players (of which I suppose I'm becomming) have turned away from jamming outside their circle because others often want to bring in new tunes to learn and often they are far from the style they want to play. It's good to learn new stuff but it's also nice to keep YOUR goal in mind and make time for it. Good luck.

Go Play: Don't miss your opportunities because you're too something (tired, broke, scared, busy...)

oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 11/13/2009:  14:27:52

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I had not read R.D.s post earlier, but he describes exactly how I operate at jams. I simply listen a couple times through - sometimes playing along softly on repeats and such - and usually I have enough by the third times through to join in. A lot of stuff comes by the 2nd time through and I almost swear that nowadays I frequently know where a tune is going after hearing only the first phrase. I doubt I'm all that good a guesser. I assume I've heard or even played the tune before and my fingers remember it before my brain catches up.

This abiity has been growing and refining itself for me over about the same time as my ability to practice has been falling because of the arthritus. I wondered if they were related until about 10 years ago when I started asking people about their own playing and discovered I was more-or-less doing what everyone I jammed with was doing.

My wife used to insist she would never be able to do this, but when she retired and could suddenly take the time to learn a whole lotta tunes, she suddenly found herself much better able to to it than before. Amount of original repertoire has a lot to do with ability to learn on the fly.


http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Rocket Science Banjo - Advanced Clawhammer Techniques for beginners and long time players alike. Plus videos and 25-40 EZ Clawhammer Tunes.
& check out "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
banjo brad's great banjo site

dfwest - Posted - 11/13/2009:  14:49:43

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I think RD and Old Woodchuck have it nailed. My interpretation: practice a lot, and thereby learn the art (if not individual songs). Apply to the art to whatever song you wish to play. My opinion, and you gets what you pays for!

David West

Fort Collins, Colorado & Racine, WI

Jami108 - Posted - 11/13/2009:  15:07:05

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And then...I get a call out of the blue a few minutes ago. A friend had set up a gig for someone else at an art opening. That "someone else" fell through at the last minute. So, the "band" I've been practicing with for the last three Sundays has a paying gig...TOMORROW NIGHT! I've played other kinds of music in front of audiences and on the radio before, but never Old Time music. This should prove to be pretty interesting.

Jami



"When you want genuine music—music that will come right home to you like a bad quarter, suffuse your system like strychnine whiskey…ramify your whole constitution like the measles, and break out on your hide like the pin-feather pimples on a picked goose—when you want all this, just smash your piano, and invoke the glory-beaming banjo!" - Mark Twain

ScottK - Posted - 11/13/2009:  15:59:10

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Hey, congrats on the first OT gig! Should be a hoot!

Coincidentally, I got two of those calls this week. On Wednesday I got an email asking if I could fill in banjo duties for a square dance that night, which I did. That was a lot of fun. Then I got a call last night asking if could fill in banjo duties for another square dance tonight, which I will. Not sure what's up with all the last minute banjo need in the world, but it's all fun so no complaints!

Cheers, Scott

R.D. Lunceford - Posted - 11/13/2009:  17:20:55

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quote:

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Learning and forgetting then relearning on the fly is a good way to cull out the unnecessary bits and just feel the MUSIC flow through your arm to the banjo.

http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Rocket Science Banjo - Advanced Clawhammer Techniques for beginners and long time players alike. Plus videos and 25-40 EZ Clawhammer Tunes.
& check out "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
banjo brad's great banjo site

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The above wisdom is- as it could only be - the product of a lifetime of experience, distilled down to full strength. The Old WoodChuck's ability to enlighten with a single sentence is astounding.

Our good fortune to have you here Tony.

R.D. Lunceford- "Missourian in Exile"
Model 1865 Bowlin Fretless Banjo
****************************************************
"Drink from the Musselfork once, and you'll
always come back." -Dr. Bondurant Hughes, 1917

Jami108 - Posted - 11/13/2009:  20:01:59

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Amen, RD!

Jami



"When you want genuine music—music that will come right home to you like a bad quarter, suffuse your system like strychnine whiskey…ramify your whole constitution like the measles, and break out on your hide like the pin-feather pimples on a picked goose—when you want all this, just smash your piano, and invoke the glory-beaming banjo!" - Mark Twain