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billyshake - Posted - 11/12/2009: 00:02:03
Dock Boggs is easily in my top five blues-man list. I think his sound was incredibly original. But until now, I've never thought about how, exactly, he was playing that banjo. Can someone offer info on that?
____________________________
billyshake: The #1 Banjo Player on the Sub-Continent!
(of course, that's assuming I'm the ONLY banjo player on the sub-continent)
Bill Rogers - Posted - 11/12/2009: 00:07:33
Do a search in playing advice old time for him. You'll find plenty. He had a unique 3-finger style.
Bill
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 11/12/2009: 00:25:51
Mike Seeger had Boggs's style down pretty good so I imagine there is something on it in his Banjo Styles DVD. I'm pretty sure Art Rosenbaum has at least one Boggs tune tabbed out too.
I mostly faked it with 2 fingers and later with claw.
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Rocket Science Banjo - Advanced Clawhammer Techniques for beginners and long time players alike. Plus videos and 25-40 EZ Clawhammer Tunes.
& check out "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
banjo brad's great banjo site
munchausen - Posted - 11/12/2009: 05:16:04
In general, Boggs played in a 3-finger up picking style that highlighted melody. He used a variety of tunings, but it's the tuning he used for "Country Blues" that gets a lot of attention: f#CGAD. In Boggs' style, the 5th string is used more sparingly than in other styles. Melody is often played across all 4 other strings! The thumb generally plucks the 4th and 3rd string while index and middle plucks the 2nd and 1st strings.
There are variations on this style, as Mike Seeger demonstrates in 'Southern Banjo Sounds.' Boggs sometimes brushed upper strings with his index or middle finger, depending on the context. Seeger arranged the old ballad "Lady Gay" in this style, tuning f#CGAD. Art Rosenbaum includes tab for "Country Blues" in 'Art of the Mountain Banjo.' His version is "a bit mor elaborate than Boggs' original" (Rosenbaum's words). It is definitely worth the study--the entire book for that matter.
Check out these videos: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMTmJqa8yaw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIwrbuchfY0
The first is "Drunkard's Lone Child." The second is Boggs' version of "Pretty Polly," played slowly first.
Chad
scruggsfan - Posted - 11/12/2009: 05:48:50
Tony Trischka has a couple or three of Boggs' tunes in his lessons in the School of Banjo site. Maybe you could talk to him about those - he's on the hangout, or here is the website:
http://www.tonytrischkaschoolofbanjo.com/home
Ilana
R Buck - Posted - 11/12/2009: 07:53:38
Bogg's approach to the banjo is very original yet it works to convey the music he played. That is an admirable goal. Playing the banjo so that it puts what you want out there as a vessel for the songs. He is neither truly traditional or avante garde. He is unique and found a way to express himself that is a challenge to learn and worth learning. Old time banjo players are not tied to sounding like Earl or anyone else so they do get some wild ideas and implement them. That has always been the draw to old time banjo. No two of the greats sound alike.
RobBob
Music; the best way to count time. It is a journey not a destination.
www.blueridgerounders.com
majikgator - Posted - 11/12/2009: 09:09:10
now if somebody could teach me to sing like Dock Boggs, yes Mike Seeger spent a lot of time with him and i believe was largely responsible for his surge in popularity in the early 1960's, but there isn't as much on his DVD as i imagined there might have been., so catch as catch can, certainly the Rosenbaum tab The way i understand it he was trying to imitate on banjo what he was hearing from black blues guitarists. His style is surely worth the study; good luck, wish i had the time but i'm chin deep in clawhammer right now and don't want to side track when i'm on a roll.
jk
ramjo - Posted - 11/12/2009: 09:31:03
I like what RobBob says. "Unique" should come well before "virtuosic" in the hierarchy of qualities that define greatness.
Uncle Sinner - Posted - 11/12/2009: 14:07:39
Tuning is a big part of it in his modal tunes (Pretty Polly, Country Blues, Rob Alcohol Blues, Danville Gal, etc.). Boggs used F#DGAD and F#CGAD (holding the fourth string down at the second fret most of time). Your basic chord involves the second fret of the third string (and the fourth string in F#CGAD as I said earlier).
I personally prefer FDGAD, as it gives more of a minor feel. That's the tuning I use for my apolcalyptic pseduo-gospel song "When Jesus Comes", which is up-picked a la Boggs with an up-stroke brush with my index finger.
oldwoodchuckb - Posted - 11/12/2009: 14:23:48
Mike Seeger - "rediscovered Boggs".
As he put it the rediscovery turned out to be simple. Boggs was in the phone book. There is a great short film of Dock Boggs playing and singing, and I have seen a film of Mike doing a Boggs oiginal on Boggs' banjo.
http://www.rocketsciencebanjo.com
Rocket Science Banjo - Advanced Clawhammer Techniques for beginners and long time players alike. Plus videos and 25-40 EZ Clawhammer Tunes.
& check out "How To Mold A Mighty Pinky" at:
http://www.pricklypearmusic.net
banjo brad's great banjo site
whyteman - Posted - 11/12/2009: 18:36:56
Well said Mr. Buck.
I'm probably in the minority here, but I greatly prefer Dock's recordings from the 20s. The raw intensity thrills me in ways that his Folkways recordings do not. I also think he got a remarkable sound out of the Supertone he played.
Don
Haul off your overcoat and roll up your sleeve.
billyshake - Posted - 11/12/2009: 21:22:43
quote:
Originally posted by whyteman
Well said Mr. Buck.
I'm probably in the minority here, but I greatly prefer Dock's recordings from the 20s. The raw intensity thrills me in ways that his Folkways recordings do not. I also think he got a remarkable sound out of the Supertone he played.
Don
Haul off your overcoat and roll up your sleeve.
Yes, I appreciate the later recordings, but I'm with you on those really early ones. Man, there's just no other sound like that. I've just now switched styles for the first time to clawhammer; I better follow majikgator's lead and stick with it rather than playing around with what might be a heartbreaking attempt to capture the Boggs sound with my left-wanting musical abilities. ____________________________ billyshake: The #1 Banjo Player on the Sub-Continent! (of course, that's assuming I'm the ONLY banjo player on the sub-continent)
stevel - Posted - 11/13/2009: 06:50:43
i've only been playing a few years, but i've been teaching myself quite a few styles:
clawhammer/frailing
dock boggs type picking
2-finger thumb lead and index lead
minstrel stroke
and my own 3 finger style that mimics the clawhammer pattern
i can even play 3 finger bluesgrass, but i don't anymore (just personal preference)
now what i do might not work for everybody, but every once in a while i get into a rut with one of the styles, so i just move over to another one. i like the versatility.
Emiel - Posted - 11/13/2009: 09:41:05
quote:
Originally posted by whyteman
Well said Mr. Buck.
I'm probably in the minority here, but I greatly prefer Dock's recordings from the 20s. The raw intensity thrills me in ways that his Folkways recordings do not. I also think he got a remarkable sound out of the Supertone he played.
Don
Haul off your overcoat and roll up your sleeve.
The Supertone is used on the first recording session in the twenties (for Brunswick). For the second recording session in the 1920s for The Lonesome Ace ("Without a Yodel") he already used the Gibson RB-3. You can hear it if you listen well. Emiel http://www.flickr.com/photos/emieldk/http://www.bluerounders.com
billyshake - Posted - 11/13/2009: 22:25:04
quote:
Originally posted by Hunter Robertson
Get The DVD on Vestapol "Shady Grove" and you can watch the man himself play! Has other great musicians on it too.
Done and done! I'll have a friend order that right away (works well, since I haven't credit cards and don't live in the states, I have him order stuff then I borrow it!) I set my latptop's alarm to play random tunes off my library. This morning I awoke to "Drunkard's Lonely Child". Man, that guy had a sound and a half, huh? ____________________________ billyshake: The #1 Banjo Player on the Sub-Continent! (of course, that's assuming I'm the ONLY banjo player on the sub-continent)
munchausen - Posted - 11/14/2009: 20:58:40
I played "Drunkard's Lone Child" earlier tonight for the annual business meeting of the Southern MD Traditional Music and Dance organization. It's a rush to play this stuff! I'll try to upload the video when I have the patience to deal with my youtube account! Thinkin' about learning "Prodigal Son" or "Oh Death" next.
A sound and a half---agreed.
Chad
billyshake - Posted - 11/15/2009: 00:13:52
quote:
Originally posted by munchausen
I played "Drunkard's Lone Child" earlier tonight for the annual business meeting of the Southern MD Traditional Music and Dance organization. It's a rush to play this stuff! I'll try to upload the video when I have the patience to deal with my youtube account! Thinkin' about learning "Prodigal Son" or "Oh Death" next.
A sound and a half---agreed.
Chad
Prodigal Son!! That tune gets me every time. Of course, Oh Death, does as well. I'd love to hear your version of Drunkard's Lone Child when you get it uploaded. It's a real dream for me that I might one day play a tolerable version of that tune. ____________________________ billyshake: The #1 Banjo Player on the Sub-Continent! (of course, that's assuming I'm the ONLY banjo player on the sub-continent)
brokenstrings - Posted - 11/15/2009: 22:14:38
Don't know anybody else whose rhythm hits me as hard.
Jessy
Frailaway, ladies, frailaway!
Stutts - Posted - 11/18/2009: 13:06:26
I love Dock Boggs too but I think Darroll Adam's unique sound does it best for me.
majikgator - Posted - 11/18/2009: 16:38:04
i'll second the wanting to hear munchausens "Drunkards Lone Child" let us know if you put it up there, what a fantastic tune. a friend of mine made a comment when i posted a youtube of a Dock Bogg's song on my facebook page, he never comments on any thing and his comment was "haunting", that sums up a whole lot of Dock Boggs blues songs and vocals as well as his unique playing style.
Couchie - Posted - 11/21/2009: 05:20:39
I've been playing Dock Boggs music ever since I started playing in the early 70's. His music has an intensity that few others can match. His banjo style is as unique as his approach to the music. Dock was a true genius....
Don Borchelt - Posted - 11/21/2009: 07:13:22
Don Couchie and Hunter Robertson are both terrific interpreters of Dock Boggs' playing and singing. I got to hear Don do a couple of Boggs' songs just as I was packing up to leave Clifftop this summer. He drew a crowd. Okay, the crowd was Chip Arnold, but that's a significant crowd in my book. Hunter has a great rendition of Sugar Baby on his new CD, worth the price of the whole CD.
- Don Borchelt
Edited by - Don Borchelt on 11/21/2009 07:14:10
whyteman - Posted - 11/21/2009: 07:41:01
I heard a very fine performance of "Country Blues" by Joe Newberry on SugarInTheGourd the other day.
I also enjoy interpretations of Dock's songs in a non-Boggsian fashion if well done.
I have a fine recording of Evo Bluestien doing "Alcohol Rub Blues" with an authoharp lead(strange, but great), and Troublesome Creek gives the full stringband treatment to "Cole Younger". Wow! I bet Dock would have loved that.
It's also interesting to hear people use Docks banjo style for other songs, like MSeeger's Retrograssed version of Maggie's Farm.
Don.
munchausen - Posted - 11/21/2009: 21:46:18
Mike Seeger also recorded the old ballad "Lady Gay" in the style of Dock Boggs. I think quite a few ballads would sound great in Boggs' style. I'd like to try my hand at it sometime.
billyshake - Posted - 11/22/2009: 05:43:28
quote:
Originally posted by whyteman
I heard a very fine performance of "Country Blues" by Joe Newberry on SugarInTheGourd the other day.
I also enjoy interpretations of Dock's songs in a non-Boggsian fashion if well done.
I have a fine recording of Evo Bluestien doing "Alcohol Rub Blues" with an authoharp lead(strange, but great), and Troublesome Creek gives the full stringband treatment to "Cole Younger". Wow! I bet Dock would have loved that.
It's also interesting to hear people use Docks banjo style for other songs, like MSeeger's Retrograssed version of Maggie's Farm.
Don.
I would love to hear that -- is this version of Maggie's Farm on the net somewhere? (i don't have access to cd stores)
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