trick420 - Posted - 11/11/2009:  22:09:16

Hi everyone,

I'm a newbie to Banjo - started playing last Friday night actually. I have a Fender FB-55, and my high G string is making this kinda constipated, farty, buzz when it's picked anything harder than lightly. I've tried adjusting the tailpiece, but that's about it at this point.

Is this typically just a sign that I need to restring it?

Here's a short clip of me fumbling around on Old Joe Clark. Forgive the (lack of) speed and general sloppiness - I started learning it last night. It's one of two songs I know at this point.

http://home.comcast.net/~trick420/ojc.mp3

I think the rest of the strings sound fine - they seem to ring well, but the high G has all of these overtones that kinda choke the fundamental out.

Any advice/analysis is appreciated. I'm open to new strings, tailpiece, bridge. I just hate the way the high G sounds right now.

Regards,
Jeff

P.S. Oh, and forgive the poor audio quality - I recorded this with my iPhone voice recorder.

tinkersdam - Posted - 11/12/2009:  00:02:59

Trick...welcome to the hangout....

You didn't indicate whether or not your banjo had a professional 'set-up' when you bought it or if you got it 'off the shelf, outta the box, or secondhand'. If it had a set-up done, you might want to take it back and have them check it again before doing any tinkering on it yourself.

There's plenty of people here with far more experienced ears than I that might be able to tell you what to do....but, just from listening...I'm hearing what sounds like a metalic buzz... it could be a fret buzz, a head or rim vibration, or possibly the string isn't strung properly from tailpiece over the nib and into the peg.

Make sure the string is on the tailpiece correctly. Then follow the string over the bridge (check if it's in the 5th string's slot), then follow it up the neck and see how close it's getting to the frets up by the 5th string peg. Check for fret contact when picking the string. Also make sure that the string goes over the 5th fret and is sitting securely in the little nib's slot that holds it in place just behind the 5th string. Check to make sure your 5th string peg isn't loose either.

You may need to check all the brackets too....see if any of the nuts are loose...just with your fingers... don't start indiscriminantly tightening them. Also, check the tension rod nuts inside the pot assembly.... just with your FINGERS, check to see there's nothing loose.

There's plenty of information already in the various forum discussions on this website about adjusting tailpieces, proper set-up, tightening heads/brackets, and what's best in kinds of strings.... take the time to peruse all the info and be sure you understand the procedure before attempting to adjust anything on your banjo on your own.

That's about the best I can suggest other than taking it to a luthier to troubleshoot the rattle/buzz & set it up properly for you .

Good Luck.


Dee


I can get 'er up to 120.... but any more than that and I'm gonna be roadkill on the bluegrass highway.

Edited by - tinkersdam on 11/12/2009 00:14:15

Ira Gitlin - Posted - 11/12/2009:  00:32:47

Is there a little nut for the 5th string? If so, the slot in the 5th string nut may not be cut well, or the string may buzz agaonst the 5th fret as it passes over it.

unclepoppy - Posted - 11/12/2009:  02:36:22

I'm with Mr. Gitlin on this. I had to deepen the nut slot on mine (FB59) after receiving it (new purchase).

trick420 - Posted - 11/12/2009:  06:55:51

Thanks for the ideas guys.

Dee, I didn't buy the banjo new, I traded some things for it. I have no idea if it has ever been properly set up. The guy that bought it new said he played it briefly and then put it away for the last couple of years - just couldn't get the hang of it. So it's a new looking used FB-55.

Unfortunately, the only real banjo friendly shop - Mountain Music - has shut their doors due to the recession, so I don't really have a competent shop to take it to for a setup. There are a couple of great guitar shops here in Chattanooga, but neither of them carry banjos so I would be afraid to let them do it.

I'm new to Banjo, but I've played guitar for over 20 years, so I'm not opposed to doing my own setup - I just need to read up on the finer points of it before I start.

Ira, yes there's a little nut for the 5th. So your suggestion then if I understand it correctly, is that the nut isn't deep enough, so the string doesn't rest fully against the 5th fret and instead it buzzes? OK, so I can check this by fretting the 6th or 7th fret and plucking to see if the buzz goes away then I think. If it does, that should be a dead giveaway I would think.

Unclepoppy, what kind of strap are you using on your Fender? I am unable to thread a cradle style strap under mine - not enough clearance.

Jeff

Richard Dress - Posted - 11/12/2009:  08:59:12

Jeff,

Listening to your OJC, I would suggest that you buy a good banjo and concentrate on learning to play. You obviously have the talent for playing the banjo, so get busy and skip all the newbie angst about strings, bridges, tailpieces, etc. that seem to fascinate beginners with cheap banjos.

This is not the kind of advice that I would give the average beginner.

Good luck.

ronjo843 - Posted - 11/12/2009:  12:09:58

Try putting your finger on the 12th, or 14th fret, then lightly pluck the string on the neck side of that fret, the oposite of where you normally finger the frets. If it buzzesyou need to lower the neck a 1/16th of a inch, or put a very smallshim under the 5th string, at the nut. If the string buzzes as you finger the string normally on a higher fret, you have to lower the neck, or look and see if the neck is straight. Not warped, or canted which makes the 5th string side of the neck higher than the 1st string side. It is not too hard to find the problem, or fix it. Good luck.

openG - Posted - 11/12/2009:  12:32:24

I had the same problem and even broke a string trying to remove the buzz. My problem was the bridge was to the right a little (looking at the banjo). Try moving the bridge to the left or upperward toward the 5th string a hair.

Average is as close to the bottom as the top!

dbaty - Posted - 11/12/2009:  13:08:08

Welcome to the world of Banjo Pickin. Good luck with the buzz problem. But I agree with Richard and buy yourself a good Banjo. Their is alot of cheap imports out there and that might be what you have. Good Luck.

Darrell

Like a Dog, a Banjo just wants to be played with and cared for.

steve davis - Posted - 11/12/2009:  13:23:39

No need to get a different banjo.This problem,like most,can be fixed.
It can be difficult to zero in on w/o having the banjo in hand,but after the right questions are answered usually things can be figured out.

Either raise the pip by removing it and placing a tiny shim in the hole or deepening the notch further and letting the 5th string rest directly on the fret could fix him up.

Jeff,does the string still sound weird when you fret it at the 6th or 7th
fret or are those notes clear and good?

trick420 - Posted - 11/12/2009:  13:26:37

Richard Dress,

Thanks for the complement.

Yeah, I wouldn't have chosen a Fender for a banjo (It's very blatantly stamped "crafted in China" on the back of the headstock. I got the banjo in a trade, so I can't complain. I figure, it's a $450 retail banjo new, so it's probably a step above all the other entry foreign made jobs out there.

Finances, and more importantly, my CFO (wife) prevent me from investing in a real quality instrument. My guitar is a Takamine EF508C, so I'm used to nice axes. My wife will divorce me (after she came to) if I dropped a grand on a quality american made banjo.

This banjo is going to serve as a stop gap for the moment - one of my winter projects is to make my own open back. It will be nice and well set up, but simple in it's look.

I just want to play - I plan to get rid of this buzz problem and move on to learning some music and take care of my sloppy technique. I just wish you could get away with playing Scruggs style with bare fingers. The biggest hurdle for me has been dealing with lack of tactile feel from playing with picks. Strange thing to get used to after 20 years of fingerstyle. I can almost cleanly play OJC at moderate jam tempo with bare fingers.

Jeff

Edited by - trick420 on 11/12/2009 13:29:46

trick420 - Posted - 11/12/2009:  13:28:49

Steve Davis,

I'll have a look at all of this when I get back home and report my results. I'm at work now and miles away from my beloved new obsession hobby.

Jeff

steve davis - Posted - 11/12/2009:  13:34:54

10/4 Jeff.Picks can be frustrating to get used to and the only way
they will get easy to use is by lots of repetition.
The good news is that once they get comfortable to use you can choose
not to use them and have two different sounds.

Crossroads - Posted - 11/12/2009:  17:34:58

Jeff,

I've noticed no one has mentioned the possibility of the railroad spikes, if they are installed. Sometimes people install them and do not tag it with a little glue. After using them a while they stand up a little, just enough to touch the string therefore creating that buzz. If you don't have railroad spikes just forget I said anything. LOL. Have fun and enjoy :).

God Bless,
Doug

WV PIKIN-N-AGRININ

trick420 - Posted - 11/12/2009:  19:32:18

OK, so the problem appears to be largely related to the 5th string buzzing on the 5th fret. Fretting up to 6 and above produced a nice sounding note. I happen to have a very fine blade for my fret saw, so I popped the string off and deepened the slot a little bit at a time until the buzz diminished. I noticed though that there's a bit of a notch starting on the 5th fret and I suspect that this is due to the string vibrating on the fret over the years. Anyway, the buzz is largely gone now. I noticed though that there's a triangular ring on the coordinator rod nut on the end of the banjo for a strap that seems to contribute to the buzz as well. I think I will probably get ot the wire cutters and do a little surgery there... Haven't decided yet.

All in all the banjo still needs some more attention - still sounds kinda soul-less, but hey, it's great to get me playin', and that's what really matters.

Jeff

The KIDD - Posted - 11/12/2009:  20:21:13

Hey Jeff,
I ve worked on ALOT of 55's and listenin to your file, it sounds like the head could use some tension.That will raise the bridge alittle givin you a different angle going away from the nut to the bridge..Yeah the 55 58 and 59 are famous for this prob.
Heres some posting about the 55 we had recently ya might wanna read.
http://www.banjohangout.org/forum/t...IC_ID=159332

http://www.myspace.com/johnkuhnbluegrass

unclepoppy - Posted - 11/13/2009:  03:33:30

I'm using a Neotech Super (abt $25 new). It has 2 nylon strap loop ends w/ quick connects that thread around the brackets & wide well padded main strap. Not very flashy but good with heavy instrument + the quick connects are handy.

5stringpicker2 - Posted - 11/13/2009:  07:06:39

Yep!

"There Can Be Only Only!"
(I )===='----<::)
http://tinyurl.com/c263xk

WildJimbo - Posted - 11/13/2009:  09:34:09

Trick...

You have a couple of store options in the Chattanooga area that can probably help you out.

Wilborn's Music in Ringgold
Blaylock Music in Hixson

Both shops specialize in acoustic instruments. Their experience with Banjos is unsurpassed.

If you can't get to either of those shops during business hours then make an effort to get to the Ringgold Opry (2nd Saturday Nights at the old Depot) or the Snow Hill Opry in Snow Hill (1st Sat). You'll find enough banjo players at either of those venues that should be able to workout what your buzz is.

Jim Pankey

trick420 - Posted - 11/13/2009:  11:46:27

Jim,

THANK YOU! for the leads... I was beginning to worry that there wasn't a competent banjo/acoustic place around since mountain music shut their doors. I went to guitar center today to see what I could see. What a waste of time.

I'll check out Blaylock for sure.

Jeff

Erbus - Posted - 11/13/2009:  11:58:40

Hi Jeff

I started on a very crude elcheapo banjo, at least your doing better than that.
These folks have way more good advice than I can give.
All I can say is I like your bike!

Terry

"Banjo, one of my favorite things to pick"

trick420 - Posted - 11/13/2009:  12:19:05

Thanks Terry!

That Triumph is a hoot to ride too. Got it about a month and a half ago. Lovin' every minute of it too.

Jeff

WildJimbo - Posted - 11/13/2009:  12:57:22

Jeff...

I'm planning on being at the Ringgold Opry tomorrow evening... feel free to wander down that way. I'll take a peep at your banjo. I'll be easy to find... most folks there should know me to be able to point me out. :)

Jim Pankey

trick420 - Posted - 11/13/2009:  13:57:01

Jim,

Thank you for the generous offer, but I will be unable to get down there. I'm in charge of babysitting my kids all weekend while my wife attends a MSF (motorcycle safety) course. If I can break away tomorrow evening I'll come by, but I wouldn't bet on it at this point.

What time and where is the opry located?

Jeff

trick420 - Posted - 11/13/2009:  17:29:06

OK, I think I have some of it sorted out...

I tightened the head... significantly. Some of the nuts were loose enough to remove by hand. Not good. I tune drums by ear so I did the same with this. It's interesting though because a tuned head doesn't necessarily mean that each nut will have the same tension - especially with cheaper hardware where there's more mechanical tolerance slop and varying levels of friction on the threads.

But I digress... The tone is MUCH better now. Buzz is gone, and she rings nicely now. Tensioning the head though has raised the bridge which has in turn jacked up the action a bit.

I assume that to lower the action I would tighten the coordinator rod some?

Anyway, here's tonight's audio clip of Old Joe Clark. I kinda fumbled the end a little. Not bad for 1 week.

Jeff

http://home.comcast.net/~trick420/ojc2.mp3

WildJimbo - Posted - 11/13/2009:  19:41:11

quote:

---

Originally posted by trick420

Jim,

Thank you for the generous offer, but I will be unable to get down there. I'm in charge of babysitting my kids all weekend while my wife attends a MSF (motorcycle safety) course. If I can break away tomorrow evening I'll come by, but I wouldn't bet on it at this point.

What time and where is the opry located?

Jeff

---

WildJimbo - Posted - 11/13/2009:  19:45:38

Oh, I neglected to mention two other shops that you might check out when you need something banjo related.

Mike's Music in Flintstone - certainly worth checking out.

Pickers Exchange on Brainerd Rd. - Not really an acoustic shop, but should have someone there that has a clue about banjos. :)





Jim Pankey