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BTuno - Posted - 11/10/2009: 08:43:49
Anyone know their price? What's so special about a Blaylock 405 ring?
"Ya gotta get all them tunes in yer head"
bobbybanjo - Posted - 11/10/2009: 08:57:34
Cherry?
With "Considerable wear to the plating" and a price tag of $42,000!!!
Anybody know anything about his $15,000 model 405 Blaylock ring?
plunka5 - Posted - 11/10/2009: 09:08:27
quote:
Originally posted by bobbybanjo
Cherry?
With "Considerable wear to the plating" and a price tag of $42,000!!!
Anybody know anything about his $15,000 model 405 Blaylock ring?
That's a pretty banjo, I would love to hear a pro pick on it for sure. I wonder what the "what and the why" of the Blaylock 405 tonering is...??? That's considerably cheaper than the "Porter Church" granada, and I do like the marquetry rings in the resonator that are factory. Man, there are some wonderful banjos kicking around on the market right now! 
eugene1978 - Posted - 11/10/2009: 09:11:52
that price makes it considerably less sweet!!!
still a beautiful banjo...does anyone know the deal with the 405?
15,000 is mighty rich for a few ounces of metal - i mean if it was prewar metal then...
GerhardP - Posted - 11/10/2009: 10:17:27
"not been significantly altered"??? With the rim cut down for the flathead ring?
Gerhard
"Most bullet holes in banjos are a result of poor aim"
(Fretless Josh Saw in BNL July '02)
bobbybanjo - Posted - 11/10/2009: 10:27:57
The deal with the 05 Blaylock ring is that it is "said" to have been made with some metal shavings picked up off of the shop floor which constituted enough metal to make four rings. Blaylock supposedly has one ring which is for sale at $15,000, one is said to be in this banjo and there were apparently two others of which one is owned by a prominent performing artist.
Haskells RB3 - Posted - 11/10/2009: 11:45:26
So were these "metal shavings" supposed to be "Prewar Metal Shavings" ? Nice banjo but still, cut rim , different ring . new neck, and 42K ? Minus 16K for the neck and the ring makes it 26K before it was altered.
Edited by - Haskells RB3 on 11/10/2009 12:05:41
bobbybanjo - Posted - 11/10/2009: 12:11:10
quote:
Originally posted by Haskells RB3
So were these "metal shavings" supposed to be "Prewar Metal Shavings" ? Nice banjo but still, cut rim , different ring . new neck, and 42K ? Minus 16K for the neck and the ring makes it 26K before it was altered.
Yes, and $26k is much more in line with the real market. The valuation for this banjo is based largely on the ring which is an unknown item of unknown value. Would anybody buy a Blalock ring for $15,000? or $10,000? How about $5,000? Anyone? Hellooooooo?
DIV - Posted - 11/10/2009: 12:19:43
Interesting about this 405 ring. I've never heard about it before. Has it been discussed before???
-"Danjo"
GerhardP - Posted - 11/10/2009: 12:22:16
And here I thought a $1500 Burlile ring was expensive. Never heard of the Blaylock ring either, does anyone have the full story about those metal shavings? Floorsweep tonering?
Gerhard
"Most bullet holes in banjos are a result of poor aim"
(Fretless Josh Saw in BNL July '02)
Haskells RB3 - Posted - 11/10/2009: 12:26:12
Did some one find a prewar garbage bag of metal shavings at the old Foundry?
Edited by - Haskells RB3 on 11/10/2009 12:27:21
The Old Timer - Posted - 11/10/2009: 14:25:44
This Blaylock ring better be SOMETHING ELSE, cause that nice original 40 hole arch top can't be put back in, now that the rim is cut.
The banjo is BEAUTIFUL though!
I always wondered if any of the Philly Mummers played good old Mastertones.
The Old Timer
"This here man is such a sap, he won't hold you on his lap, unless you are an old five string banjo!" Lester Flatt singing to Pearl about Earl Scruggs as husband material
BanjoLink - Posted - 11/10/2009: 19:21:17
Somebody has been eating too many mushrooms! That one is going to be there for a while!
plunka5 - Posted - 11/10/2009: 21:09:17
quote:
Originally posted by BanjoLink
Somebody has been eating too many mushrooms! That one is going to be there for a while!
You can see and hear all the tonal colors of the rainbow with the right fungi!!!     "do you have room in your heart for the five-string banjo?" John Hartford
BANJOBOB549 - Posted - 11/11/2009: 05:59:18
There never was but 21 castings of these rings produced. You need to hear one before passing judgement,,I happen to have 2 of these rings. NOT FOR SALE,,,,
BanjoLink - Posted - 11/11/2009: 07:00:22
Banjobob - I am not passing judgement on the rings, as for one, I have the utmost respect for Mr. Blaylock and his tone rings. He is a terrific gentleman in every sense of the word. Bernunzio tells us five of these rings were made - you have said there were 21 castings - so I think it is reasonable for someone to question why these rings are so prized - at least in the $15,000 range. Can you give us the story behind them and that may add a little context to this thread!
Thanks!
davepicks5 - Posted - 11/11/2009: 07:56:01
quote:
Originally posted by BANJOBOB549
There never was but 21 castings of these rings produced. You need to hear one before passing judgement,,I happen to have 2 of these rings. NOT FOR SALE,,,,
As Bob has stated, I understand also that Bill Blaylock stated there were 21 castings from this pour....... I have played two banjos with these units in them........impressive to say the least. At Bean Blossom this spring, J D Crowe was playing one in his converted TB1 Granada style banjo. Yup, still sounded like JD when he was playing it.... Frank Neat has a cut 3 with one in it.......wonderful banjo and sound. As for the $15,000 comment, not sure about that one, a person would have to ask Bill Blaylock directly, in order not to confuse the thought........."I wouldn't take $15,000 for one" versus he was offered that much and turned it down... Separate sales hype from what the real story may be......  David
bobbybanjo - Posted - 11/11/2009: 08:43:16
quote:
Originally posted by davepicks5
quote:
Originally posted by BANJOBOB549
There never was but 21 castings of these rings produced.
As Bob has stated, I understand also that Bill Blaylock stated there were 21 castings from this pour.......
21 Castings, WOW! That pile of metal shavings must have been huge.
BanjoLink - Posted - 11/11/2009: 11:13:17
Thanks Dave - that clears it up a bit. I'm still baffled over the $15,000, as there is nothing that could be in that metal composition that could possibly justify (in my mind) a price tag of $15,000. Seems like just one to many "zeros". I certainly understand whay a Burlile ring is much more expensive, as I understand he pours in single (or very small anyway) quantities, mainly to make sure that the composition of the brass is consistent. Seems like in a casting of 21 (if they were done at the same time), the 1st and 21st rings may be quite different.
I also doubt that Mr. Blalock sold those rings for anywhere near that amount. If he did, more power to him! If people are willing to pay, keep on selling!
BANJOBOB549 - Posted - 11/11/2009: 12:55:45
This is what I know as facts. 9 rings are unmarked,, ALL ACCOUNTED FOR,,2 or 3 are Stamped P W The Rest are Numbered 405. There was a total of 23 rings cast. 2 of those rings would not Clean up to Bill Blaylocks Standards. Will not sell those rings. I have played the Granada mentioned in this thread, along side a original Granada Flathead. Had i not played these 2 banjos so many times, I would be hard pressed to tell one from the other. Its that good. Frank Neat has told me he has played and heard Original Flatheads that didn,t sound this good,,,Crowe is Impressed. As for the $15k, Yes he was offered that amount of money. To bad he didn,t have the material to have a few hundred cast,,,,,,,,,,,
banjoken - Posted - 11/11/2009: 13:10:30
15,000 and for sale. Question is will it sell for that?
Also about these shavings... shavings are after the pour, so how do the shaving differ from all the archtop rings from the era that have been taken off banjos? Are these shavings really as rare as it initially sounds? I read here many times that melting down archtop rings to be made into flathead rings would be much different since things are burnt off during the process, thus making the final metal different. Something does not sound right here.
Kel Kroydon - Posted - 11/11/2009: 13:36:53
Pre war shavings........never happened guys. Lot of wrong info here.
Gary
BanjoLink - Posted - 11/11/2009: 14:33:16
Yep - no pre-war shavings here. My guess is that they are shavings from the many, many tone rings Mr. Blaylock has machined over the years. I know that Mr. Blaylock experiments and I further guess that on this particular pour he just hit the "motherlode". Maybe not exactly "luck", but maybe a little of that in it too. I would be curious to hear what Mr. Blaylock says.
As far as the $15,000, I think that is just plain silly. Because someone offers a particular sum of money, that doesn't mean they will actually come up with the cash if you say "yes". Once I was "negotiating" for a Gibson Johnny Smith electric guitar when the seller told me he had been offered $7000 for it (way more than it was worth at the time). I asked him why didn't he take it. He responded "the guy didn't have the money"! Well, he was right. He had been offered $7,000!!!!
BANJOBOB549 - Posted - 11/11/2009: 14:44:27
Bill Blaylock can tell you where the metal came from. IT WAS NOT FROM THE SHAVINGS OF RINGS HE HAD MACHINED,,,,,,,,,,,
Kel Kroydon - Posted - 11/11/2009: 15:40:27
Hey Bob,
Aint it funny how tales get started!
Gary
BTuno - Posted - 11/11/2009: 15:44:39
I know, I know.....from tractor parts....right??
"Ya gotta get all them tunes in yer head"
bobbybanjo - Posted - 11/11/2009: 16:00:17
quote:
Originally posted by BANJOBOB549
Bill Blaylock can tell you where the metal came from. IT WAS NOT FROM THE SHAVINGS OF RINGS HE HAD MACHINED,,,,,,,,,,,
I guess Bernunzio misunderstood!
banjoken - Posted - 11/11/2009: 16:17:42
quote:
Originally posted by bobbybanjo
quote:
Originally posted by BANJOBOB549
Bill Blaylock can tell you where the metal came from. IT WAS NOT FROM THE SHAVINGS OF RINGS HE HAD MACHINED,,,,,,,,,,,
I guess Bernunzio misunderstood!
? I did not see this fact on the sale page listed at Bernunzio?
BanjoLink - Posted - 11/11/2009: 17:00:24
I guess it's a secret - maybe if I was in Mr. Blaylocks shoes and the rings were that good, I wouldn't tell either! Bob - I know you know banjos and if you say that they are that good, that's all I need to know!
bobbybanjo - Posted - 11/11/2009: 17:18:36
quote:
Originally posted by banjoken
quote:
Originally posted by bobbybanjo
quote:
Originally posted by BANJOBOB549
Bill Blaylock can tell you where the metal came from. IT WAS NOT FROM THE SHAVINGS OF RINGS HE HAD MACHINED,,,,,,,,,,,
I guess Bernunzio misunderstood!
? I did not see this fact on the sale page listed at Bernunzio?
Each and every tidbit of information about an instrument is not shown in listings; that is why the telephone number is prominently displayed throughout the web site. If you are interested to investigate further you can use this number. Ask for John.
BANJOBOB549 - Posted - 11/11/2009: 18:16:40
I Can understand how certain facts are either mis-understood or mistaken . It would not be my place to state certain facts about these rings. Bill would be the fellow to tell this story. Being as modest as Bill is, One would be hard pressed to get him to toot his horn,,,,,Its not his nature,,hes just a country boy from Tennessee, who happens to make one of the best after-market rings in todays market. If your ever around MILLIESJIG Melvin Cumbee, ask him his thoughts of Bill,s rings. Melvin tells the truth,,,,,,,,,
ldgrmnmc - Posted - 11/11/2009: 20:25:34
Y'all can have the $15K ring back. I'll drop a much cheaper Dannick in it, and life will still be quite good. On a more serious note, these one piece flange Granadas were selling a few years ago (from conversations with CurtisMcP) for about $30K to the best of my knowledge. I wasn't aware that they had crept up any higher than that.....anyone heard of a recent one selling more much more??? thanks
bobbybanjo - Posted - 11/11/2009: 21:01:06
quote:
Originally posted by ldgrmnmc
Y'all can have the $15K ring back. I'll drop a much cheaper Dannick in it, and life will still be quite good. On a more serious note, these one piece flange Granadas were selling a few years ago (from conversations with CurtisMcP) for about $30K to the best of my knowledge. I wasn't aware that they had crept up any higher than that.....anyone heard of a recent one selling more much more??? thanks
The sales a year to two years ago were in the low and mid 20's. I know that a dealer sold one for $30k a year ago. All the banjo prices seem lower now than they have been for several years, I understand there is at least one for sale in the low $20's.
flatthead - Posted - 11/17/2009: 06:42:46
I know of one that sold in the last couple of months at $34K.......all there, one piece flange, no excuses Prewar Tenor Granada......I think it had a new 5 string neck and a conversion ring that went with it.
Barretone - Posted - 11/18/2009: 14:52:51
I bet it sounded great as an archtop.
Sigh.
Randy
bobbybanjo - Posted - 11/18/2009: 16:02:15
Anybody have one for sale?
dcbanjo - Posted - 11/18/2009: 16:31:02
As far as the ring,I was at Bill's house this summer and got to play a banjo with the ring in it.It was awesome.Not sure it was $15000.00 awesome.But I think Bill stumbled onto these great rings(It was 21 or somthing castings)and they just turned out much better that usual and he wasn't sure how he did it.I think he put a crazy price on them because he really doesn't want to sell them.At least till he figures out what he did that was different.
BanjoLink - Posted - 11/18/2009: 16:38:28
Very interesting. So I guess luck may be more important than actual knowledge!
Just kidding of course, but it does show that it may not be an exact science, and there is some degree of luck (or at least the unknown involved). Of course we can send a man to the moon, but we seem to have trouble duplicating a pre-war tone ring. Maybe space travel is more important!
Yep! I know the rim and other factors are equally as important as the ring, but ultimately we all seem to come full circle back to "the ring"! I bet Bill would take $14,900 for any remaining rings!
bobbybanjo - Posted - 11/22/2009: 12:06:05
The Granada is still there.
I think sellers make a big mistake when they price their banjo at an unreasonable price (Remember the Wade Mainer banjo) or when the description is not accurate. Either of these two mistakes just "poisons the water" and the instrument remains tainted for a while.
mplatemate - Posted - 12/08/2009: 12:59:16
Put an old wood shim on it and put the original ring back in it, sell the flathead ring and get half your money back?
davey - Posted - 12/09/2009: 01:51:37
I am one of those who thinks chopping up rims from the 20's and 30's should be a criminal offence... there better as Raised heads anyway ! no offence
mamadontlow - Posted - 12/12/2009: 16:49:19
I realize this thread is tired by now but I drove up to Bernunzio's to play the Granada mentioned here. I've been planning to get up there for some time to play the TB-7 he's got there as well. Played them both for nearly 2 hours today.
Regarding the Granada - I'd never chop up a rim on a banjo like this either but it is done. So, that being said, at least they got a good result. It is a great sounding banjo, in VG condition. Flange shows typical warping, tailpiece is not original but a n "aged" replacement Presto 5 string tailpiece. All else looks good. The banjo sounded great. Someone buying it for the sound and not the "collectibility" will get a great banjo at some price. Not sure what that price should be but it will be south of the current ask.
Regarding the TB-7 with the 5-string neck on it, another great sounding prewar original flathead banjo. All low end and very punchy.
I wouldn't recommend driving to Rochester from Montclair, NJ (4.5 hours one way) but I like old music stores with old banjos in them.
Cheers.
Tanbark - Posted - 12/12/2009: 19:18:26
I'm with Bobby and Gerhard, for asking the tough (and unasked) questions.
It's kind of crazy, aint it? :o)
banjoplyr. - Posted - 12/13/2009: 07:52:09
70 year old shavings would be no more than a bucket full of rust.....
Tanbark - Posted - 12/13/2009: 21:12:22
OldTimer: I assure you, LOTS of the Mummers played old Mastertones. By now, the word is out on what they're worth, and I'm sure a few of them, maybe quite a few, have already been sold for more or less contemporary prices.
The numbers of original Gibson flathead five-strings from the 30's, their prime manufacturing years, are, as we all know, much lower than the output of tenors and plectrums. Which is one reason why the prices on an original tenor or plectrum Gibson flathead are still rising. Of course, so are the prices of archtops, although generally not to the same level.
Years ago, I heard a story of collectors who PAID for the old membership lists of the Mummers, so they could hunt more effectively.
BTW, aren't the Mummers in both Philly and New York? Just based on the sheer numbers of people playing there, those two places would seem to be the motherlode for pre-war Gibsons, as well as B&D's, Ludwigs, Orpheums, etc., etc...
I don't have the lust anymore, thankfully. Really, I don't. :o)
As my cousin, Chuck, says:
"I just want a banjo, the sound of which will make other pickers cry themselves to sleep at night." :o)
stelling58 - Posted - 12/14/2009: 16:45:49
banjoplyr. bronze doesn't rust.
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