getitdone1 - Posted - 11/03/2009:  18:04:03

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Hi all. I'm new to this group and this is my first post.

Years ago I had a Vega tenor banjo with goatskin head. Stupid me, I trade it for a Pete Seeger 5 String Vega. Both great banjos but that tenor was outstanding and I didn't know it would have been even more so with a "plastic" head. Live and learn.

My main reason for this post is to ask your opinions on the better Plectrum banjos. Is one considered to be the best of all by most or many:? I think a plectrum has a less plunky sound and think I'd like to go that way with my next banjol.



Plec

jon - Posted - 11/03/2009:  19:04:28

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Banjos have been made to suit the environment and style they were (are) played in. A Vegavox with it's full resonator has a mellow yet loud tone while the Gibson archtop is more shrill-but cuts through. You just need to find the one that sounds and plays right for you.
I had a 26' Epiphone Alhambra that I played for years that I thought was something that I needed to upgrade from-but would dearly love to have that banjo back again-it played wonderfully.
Bacon & Day (B&D) Silverbells, Vega Professional- on up to the Voxes, Weymanns, Epiphones, Paramounts, Gibsons, Slingerlands-all are great banjos. Buy one from a playing banjoist that is tried and true and oven ready!

Compass56 - Posted - 11/03/2009:  19:40:07

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If you are considering new instruments, Deering and Ome make fine 4-string models.

Bill Rogers - Posted - 11/03/2009:  20:16:15

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To me the plectrum of choice among new instruments is the Ome. Older ones are as Jon suggests above.

Bill

NYCJazz - Posted - 11/03/2009:  20:35:54

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Vintage plectrums are much rarer than tenors.

I became a plectrum player by accident. I bought a Silver Bell and didn't notice that it had 22 frets until I took it out of the box. I am now an avid fret counter.

I've heard tales of cast-off Gibson plectrum and tenor necks at shops that specialize in making copy 5-string necks. If you're handy, you may be able to find a vintage neck and match it up to a modern masterclone pot. I see tenor necks on eBay regularly. Plectrums not so much.

As far as new instruments go, I'd go with OME also.

rudykizuty - Posted - 11/04/2009:  03:25:23

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Never played an Ome, but look forward to it some day. As far as new, Richelieu also makes a very nice banjo.

Anthony Herner
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You have to practice even to be lousy -- Jack Benny

mainejohn - Posted - 11/04/2009:  04:34:12

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You didn't mention what style of Vega tenor that you traded for the Pete Seeger 5 string, but chances are, from a dollar value, you came out on top. Do you still have the Seeger?

Nathan made a good point about "cast-off tenor and plectrum necks." I took a cast-off bowtie PB-250 neck and built a real nice "masterclone" around it for a lot less than the price of a completely new plectrum banjo.

I've never owned one, but of all the plectrums I've ever played, my first choice would be a pre-Gretsch Bacon & Day Silver Bell.

Cheers,
John Coleman
Scarborough, Maine

yellowdog - Posted - 11/04/2009:  07:13:28

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I don't play plectrum but I've listened to many and have an absolute favorite - the Vegavox. I also like Paramount plectrums (which you seldom see but sound wonderful), Bacons and Omes in no particular order behind the Vox. But set-up, "refinishing" and "restoring" can turn this list on its head. - Bad set-ups, polyester finishes and heavy platings can easily kill a wonderful tone originally in these fine banjos. And then there are the improbable fixes: In a jam session once the fellow playing next to me had the best sounding Vegavox plectrum that I had ever heard. When I told him so he said it sounded awful until he put his undershirt in it!
At the other extreme I was especially disappointed when a wonderful sounding Vox plectrum that a friend had (and that I had long enjoyed hearing him play) was "restored" and sounded awful. It looked great but so what? A banjo is a tool.

Frank Geiger
frank.geiger@yahoo.com
geigeracousticdevices.com

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/04/2009:  09:50:28

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Don,

Better plectrums?

This is somehow easy to tell:

PREWARS
B&D Silver Bellīs mid/late 20s - original or refinished
VegaVox appr. ī30 - rebuild (f.ex. carbon fiber reinforcement of neck) plus refinished

POSTWARS
Salstroem or early Fender ConcertTone - original or refinished

Sorry guys (owners of other vintage or new brands/models) - I guess, that Don asked for only the most prominent guideline - LOL!

Regards

Polle

Bill Rogers - Posted - 11/04/2009:  12:14:12

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As an old-time five-string player, it's interesting to see that, like with old-time banjos, there are multiple opinions about the "best" plectrum banjos--old or new. It's sure a lot more interesting than everyone agreeing.

Bill

Dogface - Posted - 11/04/2009:  13:24:58

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quote:

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Originally posted by rudykizuty

Never played an Ome, but look forward to it some day. As far as new, Richelieu also makes a very nice banjo.

Anthony Herner
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You have to practice even to be lousy -- Jack Benny

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+1 Richelieu

Thanks,
Mark

If there are no dogs in heaven then when I die I want to go where they went...

Will Rogers

NYCJazz - Posted - 11/04/2009:  21:25:10

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bill Rogers

As an old-time five-string player, it's interesting to see that, like with old-time banjos, there are multiple opinions about the "best" plectrum banjos--old or new. It's sure a lot more interesting than everyone agreeing.

Bill

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It's a lot cheaper, too!

neplusultra - Posted - 11/05/2009:  00:33:32

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Ok, I'll bite on this one, but there are so many sub-genres:

Custom: (in my opinion the best overall choice for the money)

1. Renee Karnes - whether her Bacon or Vox style, both sound better than the original with greater variation and many more nuances for the experienced player. (in fact, I was at a performance tonight with a large banjo band and someone came up to me afterward and asked my what instrument I was playing because is sounded so different that the others...I assured her that it too was a banjo and thanked her for noticing the sound)

2. Norbert Pietsch - great sound and beautiful craftmanship.

3. Dale Small - sadly, no longer with us, but he had great sound and most of his instruments aren't too scary looking.


Off the rack: (sure there is some customization that can be done with these)

1. Ome - whether standard resonator, no resonator, 12 inch head, Vox style or Bacon style, all sound great and are extremely playable. (I think their soft pedal knee mutes work more smoothly than the original Bacons.) I had the opportunity to play the banjo they built for Perry Bechtel back in 1980 and the notes just exploded from the resonator, that was the first time I'd experienced such capacity in an instrument.

2. mmmm - you got me here, I don't think there is one. I met with C.C. Richelieu a few times to look at some instruments and I think he did a great job and was a heck of a guy, but I just think the instruments are a bit thin for my playing style. If I only played in my living room, then I might be persuaded to get one.

Vintage: (remember just one guys opinion)

1. Bacon and Day - lots of dynamic range, very consistent. Brilliant combination of engineering and artistry with the end result being a wonderful warm and sweet tone with plenty of bite when you need it.

2. Vegavox - I'm not a big fan of the whole Vega line. These are very different from most banjos and, in my opinion, require a lighter setup to get a good sound. I think they sound chunky if you go too heavy on the strings and bridge, but open up nicely with a ligher setup. As Polle mentioned, mid 30's are ideal. Occasionally I hear one I like from the 50's and avoid the Martin Vegavoxes altogether.

3. Epiphone - someone mentioned an Alhambra. I friend of mine had one that I loved. These can be wonderful


Not so Vintage -

1. Fender - I love the Fenders from the 70s. I think they were the best new banjo of that era before Ome really took off in the late 70s. The Concert Tones are wonderful, but the simply Artist models are a great find...well, used to be, they are getting harder to find.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/05/2009:  01:43:00

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Bill,

It seems, that you and I do aggree very much.

I excluded the new custom built banjos due to their price level. As mentioned in another thread I purchased and sold the Pietsch Ne Plus Ultra plectrum - custom built for Tom Stuip and later owned by Sean Moyses - a few years ago - indeed a fantastic banjo.

Iīve tested a few new OMEīs - Iīm not so keen on them - they do not response very well towards the player - IMHO.

Iīve also tested (owned/sold) a Deering GDL lately - a fantastic sounding banjo - but extremely heavy and as the OMEīs not responding very well.

Iīve never come across a vintage Epiphone plectrum - thatīs why I didnīt comment on this brand.

Kindly regards

Polle

Dick Parker - Posted - 11/18/2009:  01:01:29

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I just have two plectrums (plectra?), a 1926 B&D Silver Bell and 1930 Vegaphone Professional. I've found that the Silver Bell sound has sweetness and richness at almost all volumes and, as another poster remarks, plenty of punch when you need it to hold your own with horns. I play quite a bit with traditional-jazz (Dixieland) bands and value my Silver Bell's ability to sound musical, not just percussive, at high volume when I'm beating it pretty hard with that flat pick. On the other hand, the Vega -- which I got before the Silver Bell and played with a banjo band -- is a wonderful instrument with a trio, or in a quieter setting than a full band. Where the Silver Bell does sound just fine in a small group or solo setting, the Vega seems to be able to sing softly with a bit more color. I love 'em both.

"There's no shame in baritone-uke tuning. Why sprain your fingers?"
-- Bill Peer

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 11/18/2009:  01:23:09

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Bill,

Indeed some fine descriptions of these two major brands/models back in the mid/late 20s.

And especially your description of the differences between them. This is why comparisons between brands/models can sometimes be unfair or impossible.

The differences are even more prominent for tenors - my main working field.

Kindly regards

Polle

aroblin - Posted - 11/18/2009:  04:09:08

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To these well-informed and helpful comments, I add one thing:

Whatever banjo you buy, have it set up by the best person you can find. A good set-up will bring out the best in the instrument.

I'd suggest someone who specializes in tenor and plectrum banjos, such as the great Vinnie Mondello.

banjopaolo - Posted - 11/18/2009:  12:45:32

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I love banjos with simple rolled brass tone ring, like little wonder or bacon peerless, expecially plectrum sounds more natural to my hears, and anyway they have a lot of sound and cut...
But it is just my taste.... for example I'm not in love with silverbelle or paramounts, I know they are great banjos, but I do prefear vega or gibsons: degustibus....
best
paolo

mainejohn - Posted - 11/19/2009:  17:51:23

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Mr Getitdone1: You've had some good advice and direction from some very knowledgeable plectrum and tenor players. I'm curious to know if this information has been of any help. Please don't take offense, but it's always nice to see an acknowledgement to the folks who take time to answer questions.

jlmyers - Posted - 01/20/2010:  10:00:50

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The finest? A prewar B&D Silver Bell, peroid! (Preferably set up by Dale Small, like my '27 No.2 plectrum.)

matrixbanjo - Posted - 01/20/2010:  18:24:19

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Goldtone makes pretty decent tenor and plectrums. They are under a grand, and can be setup well.

Joven - Posted - 01/21/2010:  09:32:07

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Very true about refinishing banjos for looks, Not good eats!

But a refinishing to improve the sound and playability, Good eats!

I am partial to open back OME plectrums, great banjos. Wish I could find an ODE plectrum and/or GARIEPY. I play a XXX OME and a Juniper OME (super thin and slick neck!).

I had a chance to play a GARIEPY plectrum but could not afford it ($450 in '78).

jon - Posted - 01/21/2010:  19:37:34

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Joven,
I knew Mr. Gariepy back in 69-70 when he had his shop in Long Beach CA.a My brother and I were set to play an event he was to have there but it never happened. I traded an old Fender amp for one of his mahogany 5 strings and later sold it. By the way at the same time period I had also met "Aud" Alexander, a fellow banjoist of whom the song "Alexander's Ragtime band" was written. He was an elderly gentleman then.

majtomsdeserters - Posted - 01/21/2010:  19:46:19

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I have a Wildwood Plectrum with a resonator--custom built by Wildwood with Karl Dietrich of Bucks County Folk Music--tubaphone tone ring, solid rim. block style. Original owner couldn't play it any more. I tried it at Bucks Folk, and knew I had to have it. Wildwood makes good stuff, and they will experiment, I think. The plectrum is amazing.

Melexpilot - Posted - 02/15/2010:  19:19:06

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quote:

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Originally posted by Joven

Very true about refinishing banjos for looks, Not good eats!

But a refinishing to improve the sound and playability, Good eats!

I am partial to open back OME plectrums, great banjos. Wish I could find an ODE plectrum and/or GARIEPY. I play a XXX OME and a Juniper OME (super thin and slick neck!).

I had a chance to play a GARIEPY plectrum but could not afford it ($450 in '78).

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I have both a Gariepy open back tenor on ebay right now. And I have a very deluxe gold plated ODE plectrum that was made in Boulder just before they sold out to Baldwin. The Plectrum is a resonator banjo.

Joven - Posted - 02/21/2010:  17:05:46

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Melexpilot, just paid for the Gariepy on eBay. Looks like a nice banjo

BanjoBalu - Posted - 04/30/2010:  16:06:42

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could someone tell me more about richelieu banjos? i have a particular interest, because i'm from wisconsin, and i also like tim allans performances. so i would very much like to hear other oppinions on that. :)

Compass56 - Posted - 04/30/2010:  17:42:33

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I've never heard one, but I love the way the Richelieu Mummers models looks. Check it out:

banjos.com/mummers.html

rudykizuty - Posted - 05/01/2010:  04:35:03

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My Dad owns a Richelieu Mummers model. He's thinking about selling it. It's a beautiful banjo and several others who have played it feel it sounds fantastic. But Dad also owns a very fine Silver Bell and Vega Vox. We are both of the opinion that the Richelieu ranks 3rd among the collection.

billmill22 - Posted - 05/01/2010:  10:03:53

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I ordered a Mummers standard plectrum when they were first offered and I didn't play or hear one--just bought it by reputation of other Richelieu banjos. I love this plectrum banjo! The beautiful striped maple and the sound, and easy playable neck. I did add some money to have all the metal parts engraved and full carving,(back of peg head and heel).
I decided to thin out the banjos I had and decided to sell my Ome Monarch plectrum, chrome plated banjo and keep the Richelieu. I just think the Richelieu sounds better to my ears. Here's a picture banjoseen.us/BATW/Pictures/Mum...ition.jpg
This Mummers plectrum banjo is a keeper!
Bill

Compass56 - Posted - 05/04/2010:  08:12:58

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I love the way those things look. They totally capture the Mummers Parade experience. Seeing those picture makes me want to break into "Golden Slippers" right now.

Polle Flaunoe - Posted - 05/04/2010:  09:53:56

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Anthony,

quote:

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We are both of the opinion that the Richelieu ranks 3rd among the collection.

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Not a very good selling argument - Heh?

Polle

rudykizuty - Posted - 05/05/2010:  03:56:44

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quote:

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Originally posted by Polle Flaunoe

Anthony,

quote:

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We are both of the opinion that the Richelieu ranks 3rd among the collection.

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Not a very good selling argument - Heh?

Polle

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Polle, not necessarily. I tend to think it's like force ranking Marilyn Monroe, Raquel Welch and Sophia Loren. None are bad, but when you force rank them, someone has to wind up being third!!

PS he hasn't sold it yet....he's still thinking it over.

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Edited by - rudykizuty on 05/05/2010 04:19:39

billmill22 - Posted - 05/05/2010:  09:49:26

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rudykizuty, Richelieu banjos will make 100 of the Mummer's banjos. I have number 29 and its funny, S/N number 29 started out and was sent to me as a b&d silver bell type configuration but since I had ordered a Standard banjo configuration, I of course returned it and waited a few more months to receive number 29 as a standard plectrum banjo.
Have you taken off the resonator to see what S/N your father has?
Bill

rudykizuty - Posted - 05/05/2010:  10:15:35

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Hi Bill....no, I can't say that I know the serial number. But I do remember Dad mentioning the limit of 100 samples and that Richelieu was not close yet to reaching it.

Just noticed you are local. Would you be a fellow Mum?

billmill22 - Posted - 05/05/2010:  16:05:49

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Anthony, banjos.com/mummers.html displays a list of buyers of the banjo. If that's all there is they have a ways to go.
I've never had the pleasure to be a Mummer.
Bill

rudykizuty - Posted - 05/05/2010:  16:37:14

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quote:

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Originally posted by billmill22

Anthony, banjos.com/mummers.html displays a list of buyers of the banjo. If that's all there is they have a ways to go.
I've never had the pleasure to be a Mummer.
Bill

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Wow....Philly area, 4-string and never been a Mum. Never heard that one before. You are indeed a rarity Mr. Miller!!

I don't think the list on Richelieu's web site has been updated for quite some time. Dad took delivery of his banjo in 2008 (I think....maybe 2007) after a 13 month wait. He's not listed.

Joven - Posted - 06/30/2010:  14:34:19

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Bill,

Could you elaborate a little more as comparing the OME and the Richelieu? I am about to buy a Golden Eagle Plectrum Richelieu and I have an OME open back Juniper plectrum which I really like. But at a less than a grand for the Richelieu, it seems like a great deal for me.... What do you think?