James Hall - Posted - 11/03/2009:  12:16:13

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Is tab bad? Alot of people say it is! I've been learning with the Murphy Method, but I'm thinking about getting into tab also. I think theres all kinds of great ways to learn, what 'bout you all?

PRAISE THE LORD

kyblugrass - Posted - 11/03/2009:  12:18:07

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TABs are useful, but I am a firm believer in the MM.

Scott
“You Can Hang a Sign on a Pig Saying It's a Horse...But It’s Still Just a Pig.”

Nosferatu - Posted - 11/03/2009:  12:26:03

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Tab is nothing more but another forum of written music. Not being able to read music/tab is musical illiteracy.

Thank you,
"Count" Hugh


"I bent over him, and tried to find any sign of life, but in vain." -- Jonathan Harker, Dracula

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Edited by - Nosferatu on 11/03/2009 12:28:07

Texasbanjo - Posted - 11/03/2009:  12:49:33

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I think tab has it's place in teaching and learning. When I taught, I used tab and it helped my students to "see" the song as they played it.

When I was first learning banjo, there was little or no tab so you HAD to learn by ear but now you have the pleasure of tablature to help you learn more quickly. I know if I'd have had a good beginning tab book, I would have continued on with my banjo picking and not put it down for 15 years!!!

I say go for tab if it makes it easier for you to learn. After you get out of the beginner stage and start wanting to pick with others, go jammin', go to festivals, etc, that's the time to think about learning to play by ear and playing by ear is not difficult, it just takes practice, practice, practice.



Let's Pick!
Texas Banjo

wrentree - Posted - 11/03/2009:  13:43:16

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No tool that helps you learn to pick the banjo is bad for you. And it is not addictive either. At a certain point of progress, you will get away from it. Or you wont make that level of progress.

Harold

pickingfive - Posted - 11/03/2009:  16:53:49

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As you may recall, I am also an avid advocate of The Murphy Method, and failed to learn how to pick when I tried back in the 1970's using tablature.
Now that I can pick somewhere in the high level beginner's/low level intermediate range, I have tried using tab a couple of times, and can be somewhat successful at it. However, I notice that I do not retain the breaks learned via tab as easily as I retain those learned via the "by ear" method. In my opinion, people will vary in how well they can use tabs to learn new licks and songs. I think it can be useful, and do not reject it completely in terms of limited use. I still believe, however, that learning to pick the five is mainly a function of combining auditory recognition/memory and muscle memory.

pickingfive

pcfive - Posted - 11/04/2009:  09:44:14

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I think tab is useful but it should not be used the same way as regular written music. I played classical guitar for many years and the idea was to simply play what is written. I did not need to hear it before learning to play it. Bluegrass tab is different because it's hard to know what a song really sounds like just from the tab, and you really should listen before reading. Also, banjo tab is usually more of a suggestion than a dictation.

When I started learning I just used tab, thinking it was the same as with classical guitar, and I found it very difficult and confusing. Now I still use tab very often, because it can be immensely helpful, but I use it as a helpful suggestion, and only after knowing how the song is supposed to sound.

But, actually, that does not necessarily apply with melodic tab. It's still better to know the song, or tune, but melodic is more straightforward than Scruggs, I think, so you could learn directly from the tab.

pcfive

Richard Dress - Posted - 11/04/2009:  10:35:43

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It seems there are two very different ways to start out learning on the banjo. One is tab. You sit down and figure out what the the squiggles on the paper sound like when you play the right frets with the right fingers. The other way is to have a video of a good banjo picker playing the tab for you the correct way so you can hear and see what the tab is really saying. In one case you see the tab, but in the other you don't see it. Sometimes a video lesson will show the tab as well as show you someone playing it, so you get the best of both worlds. One way is not necessarily better than the other way: some people do better with just the tab, but others like to watch the tab played for them so they can hear what it is supposed to sound like.

minstrelmike - Posted - 11/04/2009:  10:58:27

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All of the criticisms of tab seem to fall into two categories. One is the difficulty of reading it. That's personal.

The other is folks think it prevents people from improvising or becoming creative. That is not true. There are many folks who learn the Murphy Method and from teachers who also cannot improvise or create or even play at speed after two years.

Every pianist learns to read sheet music. Those who view it as holy writ do not learn to improvise.
Those who view it as a starting point do.

How you use the material defines where you end up. The material used to learn is not what holds anyone back.

Mike Moxcey
http://moxcey.net/mike/minstrel/index.html

pcfive - Posted - 11/04/2009:  11:36:05

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When I said I found tab difficult, I did not mean it's difficult to read. It's a little easier to learn than regular music. I meant I found it difficult to interpret Scruggs style from tab, when I first started, partly because I wasn't familiar enough with the bluegrass style. The rhythm is not specified in the tab, except very roughly, so I just didn't get it. After listening a lot and playing at jam sessions for a couple of years, I don't find it hard to read a tab and see what the song should sound like, more or less. But I still think you should listen to the song first. I never try to learn a song anymore just from tab, without ever hearing it.

pcfive

pcfive - Posted - 11/04/2009:  11:37:19

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And fortunately I have been able to find every song I want to learn either here or on youtube. I also have lots of CDs.

pcfive

steve davis - Posted - 11/04/2009:  11:51:39

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I've found tab very useful and fun since 1975.

I never worried that I would get locked into one way of playing
the tune,no more than I would worry of remembering the words in a
book,verbatum.
I get the general idea of the phrase or tune and then think for myself.
Tab doesn't hurt my improvisations or creativity in any way.
I make my own choices.

pcfive - Posted - 11/04/2009:  12:10:18

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Tab helps me find out what can be done, without having to slow down recordings. I get locked into one way of playing a song even if I learned it by ear, and even if I wrote it myself. I am not good enough yet to be spontaneous. I am able to improvise while jamming, but it's always simple. Once I have learned an arrangement of something that I like, I seem to be stuck with it. But this has nothing to do with tab. I hope eventually to get past this but I suspect it takes a long time.

pcfive

wrentree - Posted - 11/04/2009:  14:02:07

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I really don't know why more people don't use the tabledit program more. It allows you to hear the song while the tab is going by and so you can look at it and listen to it, then slow it down and play to it slowly if you need to.

Harold

pcfive - Posted - 11/04/2009:  14:16:01

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I use tabledit but it doesn't sound like a banjo.

pcfive

banjoak - Posted - 11/04/2009:  17:28:51

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Dress

It seems there are two very different ways to start out learning on the banjo. One is tab. You sit down and figure out what the the squiggles on the paper sound like when you play the right frets with the right fingers. The other way is to have a video of a good banjo picker playing the tab for you the correct way so you can hear and see what the tab is really saying. In one case you see the tab, but in the other you don't see it. Sometimes a video lesson will show the tab as well as show you someone playing it, so you get the best of both worlds. One way is not necessarily better than the other way: some people do better with just the tab, but others like to watch the tab played for them so they can hear what it is supposed to sound like.

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Those aren't the only two options. Or at least the way you described are actually very similar in the approach. This is one of the downsides to notation, tab just being a variation of notation, is many folks think playing by ear is the memorization of a notation. Generally memorizing the sequence of notes. There is an assumption that the good banjo player is thinking in tab/notation.

There is another side to ear, that has nothing to do with notation. Learning to HEAR what's actually going on without having any symbolic representation of the sequence of notes. Rather than listening to just each individual note, learn to hear what notes in CONTEXT of other notes. Imagine being able to hear rolls, hammer-ons, pull-offs, finger patterns; hear and immediately identify when a tune goes to the V chord, or the II chord (without having to "think" in music theory terms) how they have an immediately identifiable sound; hearing how the melodic context works, when it goes to a third; as well hearing the rhythm and recognizing that. Not just memorizing "rules" and sequences. For many they would see that as a great asset at a jam. As well with that, it makes it easier to "improvise" different ideas from other tunes into a different tune.

Now tab/notation is not necessary, but can be an aid to help you in hearing recognition, especially new concepts, but only if you let it, and use the tab/notation for that end. You can take a passive approach and just assume by playing from tab eventually it will lead to that. Or you can take an active approach. Or you can just be fine with always depending on reading or the memorization of tab/notation sequence. If all you want to know is where to put your fingers and when, well tab works for that. I see no problem with using tab in a jam, if you are just going to play that anyway, why bother memorizing. One way is not definitively better than the other, it depends on what you want in the end.

The other downside of tab is has no ability to detail everything going on sound wise. Regular notation is a little better, but also falls short.

Now if you starting with a good ability to hear and understand all of the context, you can read notation/tab to play things you have actual sound source for, and make pretty good guesses at how it should go.